Coronavirus COVID-19 Pandemic

[TotalAbsolutism]

Anyone curious about the report can find it here.

 

[evildice]

Not sure why this was particularly newsworthy, except this dead anti-vaxxer was well-educated (... in Law, though, not Medicine).

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/covid-anti-vax-vaccine-lawyer-dies-leslie-lawrenson-b949378.html

Spoiler: Memes containing above-average gallows humor by weight

 

[Malcolmo]

Not sure why this was particularly newsworthy, except this dead anti-vaxxer was well-educated (... in Law, though, not Medicine).

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What you hadn't noticed there's been a full court press in the media to find and then post about any case of someone who spoke against the vaccine and died?

 

[evildice]

What you hadn't noticed there's been a full court press in the media to find and then post about any case of someone who spoke against the vaccine and died?

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Yeah we're seeing hundreds of thousands of deaths of anti-vaxxers and barely a hundred such articles.

There is irony value I guess but ... in terms of scale, if anything it's being under-reported.

 

[Malcolmo]

Yeah we're seeing hundreds of thousands of deaths of anti-vaxxers and barely a hundred such articles.

There is irony value I guess but ... in terms of scale, if anything it's being under-reported.

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Considering the average quality of the articles in question I doubt you want it. Some of them read more like fanfiction then anything worth a damn.

 

[OverMaster]

Some of them read more like fanfiction then anything worth a damn.

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That's pretty much all press nowadays, period, but it still doesn't mean the anti-vaxxing is correct.

 

[TotalAbsolutism]

So, New Zealand has returned to full Level 4 Lockdown. That means no contact, essential work only, schools closed, stay at home.

Reason for this was a community case located yesterday; Govt. decided that since every case we've caught at the border in the last three weeks was Delta it was better to be safe then sorry. There were nay-sayers, of course, you know. "Locking down the whole country for one case" complaints.

As of this morning there are four new cases including a fully vaccinated nurse. Vindication sure is sweet.

 

[bryanfran36]

Got my first jab of Moderna yesterday.

God I feel like shit today with a minor fever and listlessness today.

 

[Malcolmo]

So, New Zealand has returned to full Level 4 Lockdown. That means no contact, essential work only, schools closed, stay at home.

Reason for this was a community case located yesterday; Govt. decided that since every case we've caught at the border in the last three weeks was Delta it was better to be safe then sorry. There were nay-sayers, of course, you know. "Locking down the whole country for one case" complaints.

As of this morning there are four new cases including a fully vaccinated nurse. Vindication sure is sweet.

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One question, is your job considered essential?

 

[TotalAbsolutism]

One question, is your job considered essential?

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Neither myself nor my partner are essential workers, so we're at home. Income supplements are kicking in 'cause it's a full seven day lockdown, but likely to be extended.

It's up to ten cases as of this evening. Delta be scary.

 

[Malcolmo]

Neither myself nor my partner are essential workers, so we're at home. Income supplements are kicking in 'cause it's a full seven day lockdown, but likely to be extended.

It's up to ten cases as of this evening. Delta be scary.

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Bear in mind that you and everyone else is going to wind up paying that back in taxes or inflation at some point. There's no such thing as free money.

 

[Purplepurple]

Duh. The same as for roads, military, sewer lines, welfare in general...

 

[Prince Chrom]

Bear in mind that you and everyone else is going to wind up paying that back in taxes or inflation at some point. There's no such thing as free money.

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Most people from countries that do this not only already know this, we don't care. It is the better system, and the people who end up paying are mostly those who can most afford to pay.

 

[Malcolmo]

Most people from countries that do this not only already know this, we don't care. It is the better system, and the people who end up paying are mostly those who can most afford to pay.

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You'll forgive me for being skeptical that that's actually the case, for either of those assertations. There have been no referendums as to whether or not people actually believe that, and that's ignoring how a depressingly large number of people do not in fact understand how government spending works. As for inflation, no it does not in fact get paid more by the rich, it's the poor who get hit hardest by it because they have less to spend and the goods they have no choice but to buy are all going up in cost and if you actually think rich companies will be hit harder then you, you haven't been paying attention for the last few years.

 

[TotalAbsolutism]

Bear in mind that you and everyone else is going to wind up paying that back in taxes or inflation at some point. There's no such thing as free money.

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We would be paying for this regardless.

New Zealand is a fairly heavily socialist country with a graduated tax scheme. We have a large number of social welfare programs including a fairly extensive set of unemployment benefits and a single payer socialised medical system. If we didn't lock down the country and stop the spread we'd end up paying for it in hospital costs instead.

This alternative is preferable.

 

[Malcolmo]

We would be paying for this regardless.

New Zealand is a fairly heavily socialist country with a graduated tax scheme. We have a large number of social welfare programs including a fairly extensive set of unemployment benefits and a single payer socialised medical system. If we didn't lock down the country and stop the spread we'd end up paying for it in hospital costs instead.

This alternative is preferable.

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Don't be so sure you're not going to also be paying in hospital costs with this route regardless. The whole "no non essential hospital usage" route has a bad tendency of resulting in the worsening of pre existing conditions as a result of lack of treatment or not detecting issues before they get bad. Which as you might guess costs more to treat later on assuming the person doesn't die as a result (which I suppose has the dubious benefit of only requiring the costs of funeral preparations to be paid for). You are going to see deaths and financial costs regardless.

 

[MadGreenSon]

Bear in mind that you and everyone else is going to wind up paying that back in taxes or inflation at some point. There's no such thing as free money.

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Pay more taxes or get a potentially killer virus. Tough call. Personally, I'd rather be in relatively good health and paying more taxes.

Besides, there's nowhere in the world where being poor doesn't suck.

 

[Malcolmo]

Pay more taxes or get a potentially killer virus. Tough call. Personally, I'd rather be in relatively good health and paying more taxes.

Besides, there's nowhere in the world where being poor doesn't suck.

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Poverty and unemployment can kill just as much and just as badly as a virus can. Don't make the mistake of thinking that paying more taxes and losing more money to inflation will mean you and others are guaranteed to walk out of it unscathed.

 

[Amazon Climber]

Poverty and unemployment can kill just as much and just as badly as a virus can. Don't make the mistake of thinking that paying more taxes and losing more money to inflation will mean you and others are guaranteed to walk out of it unscathed.

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Considering the fact that 11% of the US Population has had a confirmed case of COVID, and less than a tenth of a percent of the New Zealand population has? I think maybe their approach has some merit to it.

 

[Malcolmo]

Considering the fact that 11% of the US Population has had a confirmed case of COVID, and less than a tenth of a percent of the New Zealand population has? I think maybe their approach has some merit to it.

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.....
You do realize that the reason why New Zealand was able to barely have Covid cases was because it's a small island that could quite simply shut it's borders near indefinitely while the US could not right? Shockingly, when you can prevent anyone coming in nigh indefinitely your case totals will be smaller then a country which can't.

 

[Prince Chrom]

.....
You do realize that the reason why New Zealand was able to barely have Covid cases was because it's a small island that could quite simply shut it's borders near indefinitely while the US could not right? Shockingly, when you can prevent anyone coming in nigh indefinitely your case totals will be smaller then a country which can't.

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Everywhere that had a competent leader shut their borders. The USA didn't have problems because of its size, but because the people in-charge were fucking stupid and refused to lock down.

 

[Amazon Climber]

.....
You do realize that the reason why New Zealand was able to barely have Covid cases was because it's a small island that could quite simply shut it's borders near indefinitely while the US could not right? Shockingly, when you can prevent anyone coming in nigh indefinitely your case totals will be smaller then a country which can't.

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Which explains why Hawaii has a 3% infection rate instead of 11%. And yet, not why it doesn't also have a less than 0.1% rate.

Oh well. Who needs actual data when you can just arbitrarily declare it's invalid because of reasons, and therefore we must accept your pure speculation?

 

[MadGreenSon]

Poverty and unemployment can kill just as much and just as badly as a virus can. Don't make the mistake of thinking that paying more taxes and losing more money to inflation will mean you and others are guaranteed to walk out of it unscathed.

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I can get food without spending money. I can't get better lungs. I already have lung issues so I'm taking no chances with respiratory diseases, especially since I live in Florida, where the retard governor apparently wants to make us the number one in Delta infections.

 

[evildice]

Poverty and unemployment can kill just as much and just as badly as a virus can. Don't make the mistake of thinking that paying more taxes and losing more money to inflation will mean you and others are guaranteed to walk out of it unscathed.

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Inflation is a tax on wealth, poor people don't lose money to normal inflation -- creditors lose money to inflation, which is why the ruling class dislikes inflation.

If you have any debt, and if your income exceeds your capital gains, then normal inflation is to your benefit.

Competent governmental response to this virus would also be to your benefit.

NZ seems competent; sadly competence is not universal.

 

[TotalAbsolutism]

.....
You do realize that the reason why New Zealand was able to barely have Covid cases was because it's a small island that could quite simply shut it's borders near indefinitely while the US could not right? Shockingly, when you can prevent anyone coming in nigh indefinitely your case totals will be smaller then a country which can't.

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I see this response trotted out a lot, and the best response to it, I find, is Vietnam.

High population, high population density, land border with China.

293k cases, 96 million population. That's, what, a 0.3% infection rate? I think I have the math right there.

We have geographical advantages. They do not fully account for our success. The approach matters.

 

[MadGreenSon]

Inflation is a tax on wealth, poor people don't lose money to normal inflation -- creditors lose money to inflation, which is why the ruling class dislikes inflation.

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You gotta remember, the people putting out most of the fake news and disinformation about the virus are people who don't care if the poor die because they consider not being rich as proof that you're a bad person. Lying to bad people is perfectly fine, right?

 

[evildice]

Lying to bad people is perfectly fine, right?

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Excuse me sir when rich people do that we call that "branding" or "marketing", since lying is something bad people do.

Anyway have some COVID memes, all sourced from "Most Viral" for maximum USRDA irony content, hopefully no repeats.

Spoiler: Memes

 

[Malcolmo]

Which explains why Hawaii has a 3% infection rate instead of 11%. And yet, not why it doesn't also have a less than 0.1% rate.

Oh well. Who needs actual data when you can just arbitrarily declare it's invalid because of reasons, and therefore we must accept your pure speculation?

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Wow, it's almost as if the small island part of the USA had a substantially lower case total then the large landmass with very porous borders and more in line with that of other islands. Do you even read the numbers you just gave me and not realize that it proves the point raised? The idea that "small islands have easier time keeping cases low" is not some unknown speculation. There's even data to back it up, you can literally look at how pretty much every small island state had a lower total then the rest of the world did.

Inflation is a tax on wealth, poor people don't lose money to normal inflation -- creditors lose money to inflation, which is why the ruling class dislikes inflation.

If you have any debt, and if your income exceeds your capital gains, then normal inflation is to your benefit.

Competent governmental response to this virus would also be to your benefit.

NZ seems competent; sadly competence is not universal.

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You're assuming that the creditor in question gave out fixed rate loans rather then variable rate ones. If it's the latter then inflation does nothing good for you. And that is ignoring how when creditors stop handing out as much credit because of inflation, it's not going to be the ruling class who's going to get cut off, it's the middle and lower class who will. As well as that this is going to be normal rates of inflation rather then larger amounts of it and I wouldn't be entirely sure that one is off the table for every nation. I hope I'm wrong on that last bit but still.

Besides if the cost of goods like food and fuel rises who gets hurt worse, the guy whose finances are in the billions and who just spent most of the pandemic seeing them improve (look up the wealth transfer that happened during the pandemic) or the guy who lives paycheck to paycheck with very little savings left? Because his paycheck isn't going to be rising anywhere near as fast as the costs will.

I see this response trotted out a lot, and the best response to it, I find, is Vietnam.

High population, high population density, land border with China.

293k cases, 96 million population. That's, what, a 0.3% infection rate? I think I have the math right there.

We have geographical advantages. They do not fully account for our success. The approach matters.

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I have single question in response to that, why do you trust the Vietnamese data at face value? You are aware that the only people there who can actually give out numbers at all is their Ministry of Health. No independent numbers or else you risk fines or worse. In a communist country. Who had legitimacy issues. And as we all know, it wouldn't be the first time a communist country lied about a disaster. You'll forgive me if I'm skeptical about it.

 

[confundus]

No independent numbers or else you risk fines or worse.

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Reminds me of the US.

 

[Amazon Climber]

Wow, it's almost as if the small island part of the USA had a substantially lower case total then the large landmass with very porous borders and more in line with that of other islands. Do you even read the numbers you just gave me and not realize that it proves the point raised? The idea that "small islands have easier time keeping cases low" is not some unknown speculation. There's even data to back it up, you can literally look at how pretty much every small island state had a lower total then the rest of the world did.

You're assuming that the creditor in question gave out fixed rate loans rather then variable rate ones. If it's the latter then inflation does nothing good for you. And that is ignoring how when creditors stop handing out as much credit because of inflation, it's not going to be the ruling class who's going to get cut off, it's the middle and lower class who will. As well as that this is going to be normal rates of inflation rather then larger amounts of it and I wouldn't be entirely sure that one is off the table for every nation. I hope I'm wrong on that last bit but still.

Besides if the cost of goods like food and fuel rises who gets hurt worse, the guy whose finances are in the billions and who just spent most of the pandemic seeing them improve (look up the wealth transfer that happened during the pandemic) or the guy who lives paycheck to paycheck with very little savings left? Because his paycheck isn't going to be rising anywhere near as fast as the costs will.

I have single question in response to that, why do you trust the Vietnamese data at face value? You are aware that the only people there who can actually give out numbers at all is their Ministry of Health. No independent numbers or else you risk fines or worse. In a communist country. Who had legitimacy issues. And as we all know, it wouldn't be the first time a communist country lied about a disaster. You'll forgive me if I'm skeptical about it.

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So, basically, 'the actual data is wrong, please listen to me, a random internet pontificator, who clearly speaks nothing but gospel.' Yes?