• The site has now migrated to Xenforo 2. If you see any issues with the forum operation, please post them in the feedback thread.
  • Due to issues with external spam filters, QQ is currently unable to send any mail to Microsoft E-mail addresses. This includes any account at live.com, hotmail.com or msn.com. Signing up to the forum with one of these addresses will result in your verification E-mail never arriving. For best results, please use a different E-mail provider for your QQ address.
  • For prospective new members, a word of warning: don't use common names like Dennis, Simon, or Kenny if you decide to create an account. Spammers have used them all before you and gotten those names flagged in the anti-spam databases. Your account registration will be rejected because of it.
  • Since it has happened MULTIPLE times now, I want to be very clear about this. You do not get to abandon an account and create a new one. You do not get to pass an account to someone else and create a new one. If you do so anyway, you will be banned for creating sockpuppets.
  • Due to the actions of particularly persistent spammers and trolls, we will be banning disposable email addresses from today onward.
  • The rules regarding NSFW links have been updated. See here for details.

Amelia, Worm AU [Complete]

Reader mode
edale said:
For Calvert, I'd say a better name would be something like
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
"The Unfortunate Choice."

edale said:
maybe in a scene during an international meeting where we get reactions from several of the present ambassadors and/or leaders.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Heh, this. Where everyone lets the CUI know that, if they wnat to take it up with Pantheon, Pantheon will be more then happy to open a portal between their world and the CUI territory.

edale said:
Also, the aspect of Avalon citizenship no one's talked about yet, PERFECT healthcare.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Huh... wonder if they'll lose specialists because there's no need for doctors or medical/drug/whatever research?
 
I'm not the most up-to-date on the various Dyson Sphere adaptations, but I'm vaguely aware that the original Dyson Sphere model is more accurately called a Dyson Swarm. That doesn't change the fact that the original idea, as created by Dyson, called it a Sphere. It was quite some time before someone decided to start calling it a Dyson Swarm instead, and that's just because they couldn't stand the fact that an actual Dyson Sphere wasn't like the one they showed on the StarTrek: TNG episode with Scotty! (and I say that as a StarTrek fan)


On an actually relevant part of the discussion though, if I'm remembering right the original Dyson SPHERE model had the satellites orbiting on the outer edge of the habitable zone of the solar system, which in Sol's case would be a bit outside the orbit of Mars. I also remember reading a note that by the original model, cannibalizing the moon should theoretically provide enough raw material to construct one (assuming the mass of the moon was composed of a majority of the needed elements... it was more an example of the amount of raw material needed).

doomlord9 said:
I said and meant sphere, a solid continuous structure that harvests 100% of the output from a star and coincidentally makes that star system effectively invisible from the outside because the output has dropped to nothing. THAT is where I came up with my pseudo-numbers. I actually didn't know anything about a Star Trek episode, my idea came from Schlock Mercenary...
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
And THEY got it from StarTrek, because that pretty much exactly describes a Dyson Sphere according to StarTrek.

As an aside, 100% enclosing a star with something that stops 100% of energy from leaving, even at the distance of pluto (though it would be slower at that distance), would pretty much flash-fry everything inside instantly. In a Dyson Sphere you're harvesting at most 5% of the total energy being emitted from the star, though likely closer to 0.01% of the total energy....That's still more than enough to supply for humanities power needs for the rest of the lifespan of the star.
 
Last edited:
*looks up the episode*

Ok yeah that's what I was talking about. I thought you meant Star Trek used the Dyson Swarm and the original was for a Sphere. I actually didn't know it was anything but a solid sphere, the satellite network would be good but would only get a small fraction of the star's output. Miscommunication on my end about that part but I think we were kind of agreeing with each other on the mass needed for a full sphere.
 
Peanuckle said:
I'd probably go to whatever world America colonized. The place has been having a lot of problems what with Endbringers and parahumans, but it's still the best nation around. A fresh new world is just the sort of release valve they need.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
´In my opoinion Denmark is the best country in the world Amerika is merely the biggest good country to live in in the world, I can even prove it, Denmark regularly come first on the worlds happiest country list.
 
Last edited:
doomlord9 said:
*looks up the episode*

Ok yeah that's what I was talking about. I thought you meant Star Trek used the Dyson Swarm and the original was for a Sphere. I actually didn't know it was anything but a solid sphere, the satellite network would be good but would only get a small fraction of the star's output. Miscommunication on my end about that part but I think we were kind of agreeing with each other on the mass needed for a full sphere.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
The StarTrek episode had it as a completely enclosed construct, with the interior surface being fully habitable. It also had all of the original inhabitants dead from....flash frying from a solar flare...so at least they got that part right if your stupid enough to try and completely enclose a star...

To create a solid spherical construct of that size, even at only 1 mm thick would require the entire mass of several planets, completely infeasible as well as stupid. A Satellite network with a lot of solar panels however... only around as much as the moon.

I call it a Dyson Sphere, even though 'modern' theorists call it a Dyson Swarm, because that's what it was originally called, before StarTrek mucked up the waters.
 
The mistake they made from that description was living on the interior. Solar radiation and solar wind is a thing after all, if it's going to be habitable you need it to either be thick and live in the section in between or do like Schlock had it done and leave it a thin(ish) balloon with the habitation modules suspended from it.

Amelia could do it simply because it would be a mostly autonomous process once they have the base ring formed. A full scale entity is actually stupid for NOT doing exactly that.

In fact that's one of the ideas I like using for what Abbadon is, that being that one of the Entities decided to make a full dyson sphere over the same star in a few hundred thousand dimensions to solve his power issues and then sends out hunter/killer projectiles designed to interrupt and kill other entities and steal the progress they have made. Aiming wouldn't be an issue, with that much power coming in that Entity could spam the crude PtV as much as they want.
 
Last edited:
I vote the Aerican Empire as 'da best'.

And as to whether I'm being serious or taking it as a big joke.... The answer is "yes.":p
 
Daunmi said:
God damn it, I just said it's all a matter of opinion. You can't just...

Wait, damn, their flag is awesome. Yeah... yeah you're probably right.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Well I can still say Denmark is the happiest country in the world, because so sayth the worlds happiest country poll.

1. Denmark
It is no surprise that the small Scandinavian nation with a population of 5.5 million has been named the world's happiest country in this year's World Happiness Report. Since 1973, the Danes have also topped the European Commission's Eurobarometer scale, where member states are surveyed to measure the 'well-being' and 'happiness' of its citizens.
Its capital city Copenhagen was also named the "world's most liveable city" again earlier this year by the international affairs magazine Monocle for its quality of life. The city is now regarded as one of Europe's top foodie destinations, with the help of restaurants such as Noma which was named the "world's best restaurant" last year.
here relevant information also link to the site http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/p...worlds-happiest-countries.html#?frame=2667866
 
tarrangar said:
Well I can still say Denmark is the happiest country in the world, because so sayth the worlds happiest country poll.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Firstly, you're responding to a joke post.

Secondly, you're still wrong, because the quality of a country can only be determined individually by each person, and the rating only applies to themselves.

Ok, so you want a happy country? Fine, you can have one. The site you linked goes on to list places that have a higher quality of life, higher levels of peace, and higher levels of wealth.

For anyone who finds any of those more desirable (screw happiness, I'll go for quality of life thanks), Denmark is clearly not the 'best' country in the world.

Thirdly, that article you linked contradicts itself at least twice, naming both Melbourne Australia, and Copenhagen Denmark as the best cities, and naming Norway the happiest country from a different survey.

Which pretty much screams to me that the article was put together by someone biased.

You're not wrong. It's just that for something like this, you're not right either. It's impossible.
 
Amelia, Ch 249- Avalon Constitution
  • Threadmarks
    • Amelia, Ch 249- Avalon Constitution


    ARTICLE V. Protected Rights of Avalon Citizens


    No government may pass laws prohibiting freedom of religion and speech. While Avalon will acknowledge theocracies and predominant religions and languages, no law shall be passed which favors practitioners of a specific faith over others or prevents people from expressing their beliefs and ideas.

    Right to asylum. All citizens of Avalon may petition the Imperial government for protection from and redress against abuse by government. An imperial committee shall determine if there is merit to the claim. Filing frivolous claims can result in fines.

    Freedom of transit and citizenship. No nation may close their borders to other nations. People may freely travel or immigrate between nations without harassment, except as may be necessary to prevent criminal activity such as smuggling or fleeing justice. Laws may not be passed which complicate change of residence between nations.

    Right to property. No property may be confiscated by the state except as necessary to repay lawfully incurred debt or fines, or where the individual can be shown to be using the property in criminal acts.

    Right to preferred lifestyle. No law shall be passed that favors a language, sexual orientation, custom or personal preference over any other.

    Right to recognition. No law shall be passed that favors any physical or mental condition over another. All people that are found capable of safely functioning in society must be treated equally under the law. The legal definition of person shall include unnaturally created, modified, nonhuman or otherwise unusual sapient beings that can be shown to have the mental capacity to interact meaningfully in society. For unusual intelligent life, special considerations may need to be taken to ensure their wellbeing. Failure to accommodate for these needs, or attempts to use these abnormalities against them shall be treated as a form of torture equivalent to denying a prisoner food or sleep.

    Right to voice in government. While Avalon will acknowledge non democratic systems, membership in that system shall remain voluntary. If at any time, a group can produce evidence of over two percent of residents in a community favoring a petition to remove themselves from a given government, they may file a Change of Governance petition and initiate a Protected Vote. The Imperial government shall oversee the vote and ensure that all voting eligible citizens of the petitioner community have an opportunity to cast their vote. If upon completion of the vote a 2/3 majority is found in favor, the petition shall be recognized as law. Change of Governance petitions may be filed no more than once every five years.

    Right to Government Clarity. All citizens have the right to be educated to the legal statutes of their region as well as Avalon Imperial law. All laws of a governing body must be made freely available for the public to access.

    Right to Education. All citizens have the right to freely provided education meeting minimal standards as set by Imperial legislation. If a nation feels it is unable to provide these standards, they may petition the Imperial government to take management of their scholastic system.

    Attempts by a government to interfere with or defraud these rights will result in punishments that may include imprisonment of responsible governing officials, or if necessary a forfeiture of recognition as a sovereign state.


    ARTICLE VI. Recognition of Sovereignty of Communities, City States and Nations


    SECTION 1a. A group of like minded colonists numbering no less than a hundred individuals may apply as a community and recieve an allotment of land no more than ten contiguous square kilometers, not including bodies of water. Communities are recognized as independent governments.

    SECTION 1b. Communities of over 1,000 are recognized as cities and may found new communities. Cities are bequeathed the territory within three kilometers of their founding region unless it conflicts with prior territorial claims, and may found new communities within that territory. Founded communities are recognized as part of the origin City, City State, and Nation Commonwealth.

    Cities have the right to determine municipal taxes and services and must provide a code of law for their territory.

    SECTION 1c. A population of no less than than 100,000 people may found a City State. Communities must be within five kilometers of the nearest member community to join a city state. City states must be able to provide a constitutional government that is ratified by a Protected vote. The constitution and laws established within may not conflict with the law established in the Avalon Imperial Government. City states are bequeathed all territory within ten kilometers of their member communities, unless it conflicts with prior territorial claims.

    SECTION 1d. Populations of no less than 500,000 people may found a Nation Commonwealth. City States must be within forty kilometers of the nearest member community to join a Nation Commonwealth. Nation Commonwealths are bequeathed all territory within 25 kilometers of their communities, unless it conflicts with prior territorial claims.

    SECTION 2a. Communities, Cities and City States have the right to secede from their governing body via a Protected vote. A community may choose to secede membership from their immediate governing body without leaving membership of the higher governing bodies.

    SECTION 2b. Communities, Cities and City States have the right to join another governing body via a Protected vote.

    SECTION 3a. Communities have the right to purchase or sell territory to their neighbors. All traded territory must maintain a contiguous border with the purchasing party.

    SECTION 3b. Arbitration of territory. In the case of conflicting territorial claims that cannot be resolved by the parties themselves, the most immediate government controlling both territories shall arbitrate the dispute. In the case of disputes between Nation Commonwealths, the Avalon Imperial Government shall arbitrate.

    SECTION 4. Special Districts. When deemed necessary to serve specific cultural or governing needs, the Avalon Imperial Government may bequeath unusual amounts or shapes of territory to specific governments, grant titles to governments that do not meet the above qualifications, or designate areas that may not be held as territory by any nation.

    ARTICLE VII. Protected Rights of Sovereign Nations.


    All Nation Commonwealths and City States that are not part of a Nation Commonwealth may select a representative to participate in the Avalon's Legislative Assembly. Representatives are given a weighted vote based upon the percentage of Avalon's total vote eligible population within that territory's borders.

    All governments have the right to establish and enforce their own constitution and governing structure, legal systems and all necessary works of government so long as these laws do not conflict with the Imperial Constitution.

    Taxation. Governments have the right to issue, enforce and collect licensing, fees, and taxes for the costs of maintaining public utilities and paying government employees and leadership.

    Nation Commonwealths have the right to issue their own currency. However, they must freely exchange their currency for the Imperial currency at recognized international value.

    Nation Commonwealths may establish their own standard weights and measurements. However, they must include Imperial standards on all documentation.

    Expectation of Defense. All nations of Avalon shall be protected from hostilities by Imperial military might.


    ==============


    A/N- this was originally meant to be an Omake. *Headdesk*

    Seriously, though. Could you imagine this system in action? Conquer your neighbors by virtue of being a nicer place to live than they are. Also... don't treat your population like shit, they can leave you. And if you can get a hundred people together, you can found any kind of community you want. Though you'll need a LOT more than that if you want to grab a particularly large chunk of land.
     
    Last edited:
  • Threadmarks
    • insignia33 said:
    Ok, so Mashu is in wikipedia as "a great cedar mountain through which the hero-king Gilgamesh passes via a tunnel on his journey to Dilmun after leaving the Cedar Forest, a forest of ten thousand leagues span" so no real hints there :(. I think the only thing that it tells us is that TanaNari is implying that it's a giant forest they're using to hide their armies in maybe?
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    Or maybe it's their new codename for Nilbog? Because of the way he stays in a single place and believes himself to be a god-king?
    Alternatively, it's the name for their Groot / Ent (mobile form of the Yggdrasil), because Amy misheard when Taylor wanted an army of giant ants, and now they don't know what to do with them.
     
    Zarohk said:
    Or maybe it's their new codename for Nilbog? Because of the way he stays in a single place and believes himself to be a god-king?
    Alternatively, it's the name for their Groot / Ent (mobile form of the Yggdrasil), because Amy misheard when Taylor wanted an army of giant ants, and now they don't know what to do with them.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    I think it's their backup planet.
     
    Avalon's constitution is amazing! This seems particularly well-designed, with fairly simple language and completely reasonable propositions, which means that it probably will take an hour more than usual for people to start finding flaws in it.

    Daunmi said:
    Metric. Metric for crying out loud. You're trying to encourage people to move to your new planet.

    Other then that, it was too understandable to be a truly legal document.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    Metric is a pretty good system. And given that Pantheon is going to be working in a large number of alternate Earths, it's definitely the most standardized system you could get, since the Earth seems to be the same size in all the different dimensions.
     
    Daunmi said:
    Metric. Metric for crying out loud. You're trying to encourage people to move to your new planet.

    Other then that, it was too understandable to be a truly legal document.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    Umm... the Avalonian Imperial standard *is* the metric system. Note the use of "kilometers" in their constitutional document.

    Also. Constitutions usually are pretty simple and understandable. It's the laws that come later which get labyrinthine.
     
    TanaNari said:
    Umm... the Avalonian Imperial standard *is* the metric system. Note the use of "kilometers" in their constitutional document.

    Also. Constitutions usually are pretty simple and understandable. It's the laws that come later which get labyrinthine.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    Usually, yes. In my glorious home state of Louisiana, though, that is sadly not the case.

    In the 11 constitutions we've had over the course of 200+ years, the 1921 constitution stands out specifically. Depending on how you judge such things, it could be considered the longest man made document in history once all of its amendments are taken into account. A physical copy resides in Baton Rouge and occupies pride of place across several bookcases.
     
    Last edited:
    Reminds me of the Autonomist Alliance in Eclipse Phase.
     
    TanaNari said:
    Freedom of transit and citizenship. No nation may close their borders to other nations. People may freely travel or immigrate between nations without harassment, except as may be necessary to prevent criminal activity such as smuggling or fleeing justice. Laws may not be passed which complicate change of residence between nations.

    Right to voice in government. While Avalon will acknowledge non democratic systems, membership in that system shall remain voluntary. If at any time, a group can produce evidence of over two percent of residents in a community favoring a desire to remove themselves from a given government, they may initiate a Protected Vote. The Imperial government shall oversee the vote and ensure that all voting age citizens of the petitioner community have an opportunity to cast their vote. If upon completion of the vote a 2/3 majority is found, the petition shall be recognized as law. Petitions may be filed no more than once every five years.

    ARTICLE VI. Recognition of Sovereignty of Communities, City States and Nations

    SECTION 1a. A group of like minded colonists numbering no less than a hundred individuals may apply as a community and recieve an allotment of land no more than ten contiguous square kilometers, not including bodies of water. Communities are recognized as independent governments.

    SECTION 1b. Communities of over 1,000 are recognized as cities and may found new communities. Cities are bequeathed the territory within three kilometers of their founding region unless it conflicts with prior territorial claims, and may found new communities within that territory. Founded communities are recognized as part of the origin City, City State, and Nation Commonwealth.

    Cities have the right to determine municipal taxes and services and must provide a code of law for their territory.

    SECTION 1c. A population of no less than than 100,000 people may found a City State. Communities must be within five kilometers of the nearest member community to join a city state. City states must be able to provide a constitutional government that is ratified by a Protected vote. The constitution and laws established within may not conflict with the law established in the Avalon Imperial Government. City states are bequeathed all territory within ten kilometers of their member communities, unless it conflicts with prior territorial claims.

    SECTION 1d. Populations of no less than 500,000 people may found a Nation Commonwealth. City States must be within forty kilometers of the nearest member community to join a Nation Commonwealth. Nation Commonwealths are bequeathed all territory within 25 kilometers of their communities, unless it conflicts with prior territorial claims.

    SECTION 2a. Communities, Cities and City States have the right to secede from their governing body via a Protected vote. A community may choose to secede membership from their immediate governing body without leaving leaving membership of the higher governing bodies.

    SECTION 2b. Communities, Cities and City States have the right to join another governing body via a Protected vote.

    SECTION 3a. Communities have the right to purchase or sell territory to their neighbors. All traded territory must maintain a contiguous border with the purchasing party.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    What prevents a City State from forcibly conscripting all bordering communities/cities by way of immigration and forced protected vote?
     
    Lantalia said:
    What prevents a City State from forcibly conscripting all bordering communities/cities by way of immigration and forced protected vote?
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    On paper? Not an awful lot. Then again, happens in standard Earth history, too. Look at Texas.

    In reality? Well... 2/3 majority is a pretty big ask for conscripting anything large enough to be worth the effort. You'd need to triple the existent population. Plus, immigration has to be streamlined and fair, it doesn't need to be automatic. And lie detection technology is a thing.

    Basically... if a nation tried that, they'd discover pretty quickly that their colonists are not considered valid voters in the desired territory. Also: your nation just found itself guilty of attempting to defraud the vote. That's the kind of offense that can get you removed from power.

    Now, propaganda recruitment, that's a thing that can and will happen.

    Besides, when you really stop to look at it... the nature of the system makes it very VERY easy for a government to destabilize itself with overextension and too many "foreign" members of the populace. It's not like they can retaliate against dissenters. Because.

    Slayer Anderson said:
    Bees.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...


    But, yes, the system is intended to create an active competition to pull the most success out of the territories as possible. Those who can get the best results out of their land will inevitably get more land.
     
    Last edited:
    TanaNari said:
    without leaving leaving membership
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    double word
    TanaNari said:
    Taxation. Governments have the right to issue, enforce and collect licensing, fees, and taxes for the costs of maintaining public utilities and paying government employees and leadership.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    This would seem to imply that governments don't have the right to tax for other reasons. Granted, I can't think of an example of something that wouldn't cover.
    TanaNari said:
    Nation Commonwealths have the right to issue their own currency. However, they must freely exchange their currency for the Imperial currency at recognized international value.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    I'm guessing that this is meant to go hand-in-hand with the other requirement that citizens may freely leave their country.
    TanaNari said:
    Nation Commonwealths may establish their own standard weights and measurements. However, they must include Imperial standards on all documentation.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    This is generally what people mean by Imperial measurements.

    ...

    On second thought, this is actually really clever. Just redefine the meaning of "Imperial Measurements," and you can trick all of the backwards countries that still use it into using metric!
    abyssmal_kismet said:
    Of course, logic says it should be for whatever governing body is petitioning, but as with any legal document, minutia like that needs to be specified.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    Mmm, you can't really specify everything in a document like this - no matter how clearly you define every term, there's always going to be some edge case you haven't anticipated. In that circumstance, you need a judicial body to interpret it. For example: AI's can vote, right? Do 10 near-identical copies of Dragon get 10 votes?
     
    Last edited:
    TanaNari said:
    Seriously, though. Could you imagine this system in action? Conquer your neighbors by virtue of being a nicer place to live than they are. Also... don't treat your population like shit, they can leave you. And if you can get a hundred people together, you can found any kind of community you want. Though you'll need a LOT more than that if you want to grab a particularly large chunk of land.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    This kind of reminds me of the imperial planet from Simon of Space. The whole globe was sectioned out into territories with static boarders, and the only imperial rules were that a government could hold only one territory and that no government could restrict immigration or emigration. The intent there, though, was to apply natural selection to the problem of governing systems.
     
    Reader mode
    You must log in or register to reply here.

    Users who are viewing this thread

    Total: 2 (members: 1, guests: 1)
    Back
    Top