Stickypiston
Professionelles Tomboy Enjoyer
- Joined
- Jan 2, 2019
- Messages
- 2,093
- Likes received
- 25,236
His upper chamber will consist of clerics, priests and dragons for sure.
-
The regular administrative staff are taking a vacation, and in the meantime, Biigoh is taking over. See here for more information.
-
A notice about Rule 3 regarding sites hosting pirated/unauthorized content has been made. Please see here for details.
-
Staff is working to deal with the problem of synonymous tags. See here for more information and to suggest tag mergers.
-
Due to issues with external spam filters, QQ is currently unable to send any mail to Microsoft E-mail addresses. This includes any account at live.com, hotmail.com or msn.com. Signing up to the forum with one of these addresses will result in your verification E-mail never arriving. For best results, please use a different E-mail provider for your QQ address.
Archon's Curse [Pathfinder Kingmaker]
- Thread starter Imperator Pax
- Start date
Erastus 4715
Imperator Pax
Talon Master
- Joined
- Sep 11, 2019
- Messages
- 6,466
- Likes received
- 91,798
Erastus 4715
Eire surveyed the Tuskwater from the promontory, indeed from the perch he normally came to enjoy the view. His return to his capital meant he had returned in time to receive the official confirmations from his existing vassals, particularly the culturally brevic ones but also the Jadwiga Elvanna nobles late of Irrisen, acknowledgement of matters with Alseta's church. Having come from the well established Issian house of Varn Maegar had always probably intended to raise guest houses to Alseta the presence of an elf gate near Varnhold pass and royal policy only strengthened the perceived need for action. Akiros and Kressel were each a little different but Brevic traditions regarding Alseta were likely to hold as the norm given their people.
It was Valerie as Chancellor whose proposal truthfully held his attention the most. She had been brought up in a noble brevic house that had sponsored Alseta's clergy. Eire understood that Valerie's family were prominent in the church of Shelyn in Brevoy as well, and regardless of his chancellor's opinions towards and her distance to her family she had still been brought up in that culture career as a mercenary or not. If there were any Brevic traditions to borrow from Alseta's guest houses seemed innocuous. Brevoy was a much more feudal society at heart though, and much more of a local;ized rural peasantry and nobility than Narland.
It was the kingdom's urban characteristics which needed to be accounted for. In contrast to Brevoy a much more substantive part of the population was engaged in the cities and the businesses found within a city's borders. Internal travel, and external trade were also more pronounced factor within the economy, even if Narland did export food to Mendev. That movement of people waas yet another reason to consider Alseta's church, and its traditions of hospitality. Valerie had underscored that as wellbeing familiar with the flow of goods and people through the lake and kamelands environs. "What of Oleg, Valerie?" He queried after a moment
"As we took note last year, Olegton simply lacked the ability to host a force called to arms." The blonde remarked, "Oleg does need to consider the Church of Abadar," Particularly the Brevic iteration, as well as the Brevic congregation of, "Erastil as well." Those were valid points, certainly the expedition to lift Restov's siege had been delayed that Oleg's town did not have the consecrated ground of sizable temples to support such a force as needed to be mustered to fight Armag's besieging horde... on the other hand, "Oleg finds himself with an easy link to the South Rostlandic Road and thus sufficient travel to easily justify Alseta's endorsement within the community." Numesti installed as countess of the Lake, Hooktongue, ruling over Fort Drelev was an easier matter than considering the Tiger Lords. She was also Brevic by upbringing afterall.
"There are Armag and Dugath to consider as well."
She nodded watching the small golden bird hop to the king's other shoulder, even as Eire returned his attention to the great lake festooned with myriad ships.
Oleg was from Brevoy and thus had taldan traditions related to Alseta where none necessarily existed with the Tiger Lords. That was not to say the Kellids did not have a tradition of guest right, it was just Alseta was primarily a southern goddess, of Taldor, and of the Elves. She was better represented among the Iobarians but that might well have been that their clans and towns had been more associated with Taldor's religious traditions.
He couldn't be sure, but he suspected that had been what had happened. The Tiger Lords though well...perhaps Alseta was less outgoing than Sarenrae's clergy... certainly that did seem to be the case. A bell tolling informed him that the clock had reached the hour. This meeting was informal, not official council business but merely a consideration of what they had to look forward to discussing with all the rest. Dugath and Armag both would likely come for Armasse if not sooner, but they would certainly be present for the next major calendar holiday of the kingdom. But Eire also knew that Armasse would bring with it word, and letters from Mendev, "Has Jaethal spoken to you ;any further about her homeland?" About whether Kyonin had shown any indication of acting in regard to things.
"Only that we know that they are aware that the Elf Gate linking the Citadel is open and functional," And from Alseta's ring the Kingdom could in fact rapidly travel to Ravounel on the western coast of Avistan. "If Kyonin has formed a position, which Jaethal doubts at this stage, they have not yet dispatched instructions north."
"are there any other matters?"
Valerie paused, before remarking that Jaethal had some concerns that Kyonin was aware of Shelyn's church and the cult of the redeemer queen and the dark elves that it entail;ed, b;ut then continued changing the subject to, "Maestro Pendrod has been in communication with other scholars, apparently a prominent Brevic researcher had chronicled something called the Herald's Fall, and believes it must be important. He and Vordakai have been engrossed in conversation these past two days." That was news. Indeed, Eire had never particularly considered Brevoy a particularly scholarly country in his time there, martially proud yes, but he had met only a few brevic wizards and more bards and sorcerers certainly that was something Brevoy and Narland did share in terms of arcanists even if it was something that Eire personally hoped to rectify by royal undertaking.
This was news though for reasons beyond just his perennial shortage of wizards to rely on, "Has he given some indication why?"
It was an oversight of course, but an understandable one. Pendrod was not especially religious, nor was Valerie who was estranged from her previous patron goddess and had not made the effort to formally convert... indeed Eire was not quite certain on the specifics of just how Valerie felt of other deities just that she objected to Shelynite orthodoxy.
Eire's lips set into a thin line, "Tar Baphon you say," Well he had already planned to send answers towhatever letters arrived from Mendev with Armasse, but this would be certainly something he would pass on to his coreligionists in both Mendev and Last Wall... and likely for that matter the Inheritor's church in Cheliax proper. His hands folded into a familiar scholar's cradle, "And the death of Iomedae's predecessor... and it follows the Ley Lines." That most of all worried Eire, given how the ley lines had been used by Irrisen's mad queen in her effort to start a global ice age to facilitate an insane scheme of world conquest... but also he was not ignorant of Osirion's neighbor to the south... the kingdom of Geb who had stolen away Arazni's remains and resurected her.
Valerie's expression shifted into one of concern. "This -"
"Is potentially very serious magic, but from a matter of the faith, I suspect a very dire topic."Eire's initial year spent in Brevoy and the proximity of Mendev and Lastwall being closer had meant he had never overly concerned himself with the matters of the kingdom of the dead. "I will need to speak with Jaethal on this, and Pendrod and Vordakai."
Eire surveyed the Tuskwater from the promontory, indeed from the perch he normally came to enjoy the view. His return to his capital meant he had returned in time to receive the official confirmations from his existing vassals, particularly the culturally brevic ones but also the Jadwiga Elvanna nobles late of Irrisen, acknowledgement of matters with Alseta's church. Having come from the well established Issian house of Varn Maegar had always probably intended to raise guest houses to Alseta the presence of an elf gate near Varnhold pass and royal policy only strengthened the perceived need for action. Akiros and Kressel were each a little different but Brevic traditions regarding Alseta were likely to hold as the norm given their people.
It was Valerie as Chancellor whose proposal truthfully held his attention the most. She had been brought up in a noble brevic house that had sponsored Alseta's clergy. Eire understood that Valerie's family were prominent in the church of Shelyn in Brevoy as well, and regardless of his chancellor's opinions towards and her distance to her family she had still been brought up in that culture career as a mercenary or not. If there were any Brevic traditions to borrow from Alseta's guest houses seemed innocuous. Brevoy was a much more feudal society at heart though, and much more of a local;ized rural peasantry and nobility than Narland.
It was the kingdom's urban characteristics which needed to be accounted for. In contrast to Brevoy a much more substantive part of the population was engaged in the cities and the businesses found within a city's borders. Internal travel, and external trade were also more pronounced factor within the economy, even if Narland did export food to Mendev. That movement of people waas yet another reason to consider Alseta's church, and its traditions of hospitality. Valerie had underscored that as wellbeing familiar with the flow of goods and people through the lake and kamelands environs. "What of Oleg, Valerie?" He queried after a moment
"As we took note last year, Olegton simply lacked the ability to host a force called to arms." The blonde remarked, "Oleg does need to consider the Church of Abadar," Particularly the Brevic iteration, as well as the Brevic congregation of, "Erastil as well." Those were valid points, certainly the expedition to lift Restov's siege had been delayed that Oleg's town did not have the consecrated ground of sizable temples to support such a force as needed to be mustered to fight Armag's besieging horde... on the other hand, "Oleg finds himself with an easy link to the South Rostlandic Road and thus sufficient travel to easily justify Alseta's endorsement within the community." Numesti installed as countess of the Lake, Hooktongue, ruling over Fort Drelev was an easier matter than considering the Tiger Lords. She was also Brevic by upbringing afterall.
"There are Armag and Dugath to consider as well."
She nodded watching the small golden bird hop to the king's other shoulder, even as Eire returned his attention to the great lake festooned with myriad ships.
Oleg was from Brevoy and thus had taldan traditions related to Alseta where none necessarily existed with the Tiger Lords. That was not to say the Kellids did not have a tradition of guest right, it was just Alseta was primarily a southern goddess, of Taldor, and of the Elves. She was better represented among the Iobarians but that might well have been that their clans and towns had been more associated with Taldor's religious traditions.
He couldn't be sure, but he suspected that had been what had happened. The Tiger Lords though well...perhaps Alseta was less outgoing than Sarenrae's clergy... certainly that did seem to be the case. A bell tolling informed him that the clock had reached the hour. This meeting was informal, not official council business but merely a consideration of what they had to look forward to discussing with all the rest. Dugath and Armag both would likely come for Armasse if not sooner, but they would certainly be present for the next major calendar holiday of the kingdom. But Eire also knew that Armasse would bring with it word, and letters from Mendev, "Has Jaethal spoken to you ;any further about her homeland?" About whether Kyonin had shown any indication of acting in regard to things.
"Only that we know that they are aware that the Elf Gate linking the Citadel is open and functional," And from Alseta's ring the Kingdom could in fact rapidly travel to Ravounel on the western coast of Avistan. "If Kyonin has formed a position, which Jaethal doubts at this stage, they have not yet dispatched instructions north."
"are there any other matters?"
Valerie paused, before remarking that Jaethal had some concerns that Kyonin was aware of Shelyn's church and the cult of the redeemer queen and the dark elves that it entail;ed, b;ut then continued changing the subject to, "Maestro Pendrod has been in communication with other scholars, apparently a prominent Brevic researcher had chronicled something called the Herald's Fall, and believes it must be important. He and Vordakai have been engrossed in conversation these past two days." That was news. Indeed, Eire had never particularly considered Brevoy a particularly scholarly country in his time there, martially proud yes, but he had met only a few brevic wizards and more bards and sorcerers certainly that was something Brevoy and Narland did share in terms of arcanists even if it was something that Eire personally hoped to rectify by royal undertaking.
This was news though for reasons beyond just his perennial shortage of wizards to rely on, "Has he given some indication why?"
It was an oversight of course, but an understandable one. Pendrod was not especially religious, nor was Valerie who was estranged from her previous patron goddess and had not made the effort to formally convert... indeed Eire was not quite certain on the specifics of just how Valerie felt of other deities just that she objected to Shelynite orthodoxy.
Eire's lips set into a thin line, "Tar Baphon you say," Well he had already planned to send answers towhatever letters arrived from Mendev with Armasse, but this would be certainly something he would pass on to his coreligionists in both Mendev and Last Wall... and likely for that matter the Inheritor's church in Cheliax proper. His hands folded into a familiar scholar's cradle, "And the death of Iomedae's predecessor... and it follows the Ley Lines." That most of all worried Eire, given how the ley lines had been used by Irrisen's mad queen in her effort to start a global ice age to facilitate an insane scheme of world conquest... but also he was not ignorant of Osirion's neighbor to the south... the kingdom of Geb who had stolen away Arazni's remains and resurected her.
Valerie's expression shifted into one of concern. "This -"
"Is potentially very serious magic, but from a matter of the faith, I suspect a very dire topic."Eire's initial year spent in Brevoy and the proximity of Mendev and Lastwall being closer had meant he had never overly concerned himself with the matters of the kingdom of the dead. "I will need to speak with Jaethal on this, and Pendrod and Vordakai."
Late Erastus 4715
Imperator Pax
Talon Master
- Joined
- Sep 11, 2019
- Messages
- 6,466
- Likes received
- 91,798
Late Erastus4715
Eire found that it was good that his realm was mostly human. Tool use, more importantly the tools to make the tools were sized for humans, and in turn that the steady progress of agriculture ... the use of horses the rotation of crops and other developments more closely resembled now the late 1800s midwest in techniques, and with things like the mccormick reaper, but with far greater centralized large farms. It wasn't an attempt to install a royal monopoly.
He thought back to the conversation informal as it had been with Valerie recognizing that it had turned into the sort of thing he would have preferred to have had on the record... but that was ... not how medieval governance worked... even in modern earth minutes of meetings were a very late development relatively speaking and certainly for informal discussions.
It ultimately was of no consequence. There was little point dwelling on it. Eire spread his hands gesturing for the council to sit so that they could begin, once they had done so, they began with the minutiae ... the recognition of harvest yields and other factors of agrarian life, but also agrarian life on a world like Golarion. Northern Avistan already had the potato of course, but while as a crop, as staple foodstuff it helped there were other things which held back its productivity, or had.
Meiqi was, took the existence of the moldboard plow as a given. That wasn't the same for Akiros who was originally from the south of Avistan. Akiros had also spoken of the tribe which had taken him in, and for which he was accepted as some member of. The conversations were accompanied by the scribbling of Linzi's preferred quill... even as she scrawled away the reminder that Erastil was an ancient curmudgeonly old deity set in his ways. Akiros's words weren't mean spirited or hateful regarding his former, and perhaps still patron deity as he responded to Meiqi's queries about agriculture among the brevic peasantry.
"Such harvests insure well fed cities, and cities are the foundation of the civilized life," The dragon remarked in her courtly eastern accented taldane, a language she was speaking for Akiros's benefit since... the former paladin of Erastil's draconic did leave something to be desired. Still both his and Harrgulka's progress in the language given its usage was more than passable most days... but for today's court it made more sense to use Taldane given the assembled body.
Eire supposed that that might be a hurdle in the future, but it would work for today. Meiqi changed the subject to addressing Hulthrak about the pallets... which for giants were the right size to just be carried where as for humans they were used with skids to move. The venerable stone giant nodded as he informed the dragon about the latest progress in the northern narlmarches along the road of shields. This conversation drew Vordakai in, and Harrgulka as well as Akiros given his fief's proximity to the work in the north.
He allowed the council to discuss things, sitting back and waiting. The ancient cyclops had only limitted knowledge of agriculture... and as a lich even one reduced in power had little need for it personally. He did however have other ideas on how work might be improved, even if for the most part those ideas required magical infrastructure that the kingdom for now lacked. The least controversial was just to expand the efforts of having trained alchemists around, but eventually to move from alchemy to wizarding schools.
"The use of undead labor is an intriguing proposal," Jaethal observed that it was not unheard of, that Geb in the distant south was a nation of undead which employed undead labor, "but addresses a problem we do not readily have to contend with." Eire continued as she finished, "Agriculture is," He paused to take a breath, "Is the dominant portion of most economies but we enjoy a surplus, our shortage of labor is in other areas of the economy."
Vordakai nodded, "Indeed, the toil in the mines would similarly benefit." He remarked, "untiring servants do not make the mistake of tired mortals, and as you have observed time and again the demands on the iron works is unceasing. "which was true, as the bell tolled mid day it was an opportune moment to break. It was just as well Vordakai had some ideas that he had put forward of the relatively small Irriseni population potentially fielding a contingent of necromancers on the kingdom's behalf.
Jaethal fixed him with a look. "I did not bring up Geb for merely the sake of idle comparison."
"Yes?" He inquired having expected the interruption must have been some sort of signal. "There is a development?"
"We have drawn their attention...at first I suspected merely Urgathoa's church," Jaethal's goddess was silent to her, and Eire had not, intentionally so, touched too deeply on the Pallid Princess's tenants. He was however all too aware that Urgathoa's church was powerful in the undead kingdom, and Jaethal was a powerful undead... and so to was Vordakai, and while not in their league Dead Dave was a visible, known figure in the realm as well. "There is another matter," One which dealt with the great schools of the realm... the universities of the kingdom were seminaries, housed seminaries of Iomedae's clergy, "And that seems to have attracted attention from at least one of our visitors from the south."
"This undead is a knight of Ozem?"
"Or was in life." She responded.
Eire felt the headache twinge, and stood at a loss at precisely what it was he was supposed to do in this situation. "Is there any other matter among the churches?" Faiths probably would have been the better word, as Jaethal's smirk flashed.
"Well, there are the goblins, and specifically Lamashtu's faith."
He blew out a warm breath. "Thank you Jaethal all the same."
"And there is Tristian's investigation we will have to remain on our guard for demonic cults likely for the foreseeable future." He reiterated himself a bit more sarcastically this time... with a bit more emphasis. "However I believe we should focus on Geb's visitors."
"I agree," He had no idea what exactly the formal position of Iomedae's church would be to the grave knight, "Has he made formal introduction to court thus far?"
"No." She paused, "There hasn't been time, we are all quite busy this time of the year."Armasse was at least a few weeks out after all, but there was another matter... another holiday. "The next formal court function-"
"Is the Inheritor's Ascendance." He replied drawing stiffly to his full height, "will this create any issue with the Kyonin ambassador."
"Alseta listens to you when you speak," Jaethal replied, "Whatever complaints the kingdom might have of elf gates beyond their control, she is the goddess of them," And thus they had some breathing room, "He'll mention it I'm almost certain, but the gate facilitates trade, facilitates contact across the continent, and there are factions at court who are favorably disposed to more open relations."
That he thought, letting out a small sigh of relief, was at least some good news. The truth was he'd been nervous of dealing with kyonin, and its religious sensibilities. Findeladara's church, and some of the other elven pantheon made things complicated. Then of course there was matter of how to balance the Church of Calistria with Erastil... well Desna was much easier to deal with. "What is the ambassador's opinion of the Ascendance."
Jaethal's expression set, her lipsforming a thin line, "Well Iomedae is a human, chelish goddess, who ascended to divinity. For the most part most conservatives in the kingdom have a hard time reconciling that." She waved off his query that he had been under the impression Aroden had been well respected by the Kingdom, "That is true, but Aroden was the God of Mankind, and an exception to the rule besides... but Kyonin does support Mendev's crusade. That is our most likely path to gaining formal recognition, but such recognition as a peer could still be years away." She added quickly, "Though far faster than I think the conservatives of the kingdom might have preferred it required many years for Andoran to reach this point." ... but Eire recognized Andoran had far fewer elf gates over a much larger territorial expanse... and relatively speaking Narland had not simply a higher proportion of elves to dwarves it had an estimated higher proportion of elves about one in twelve of its urban population and that wasn't counting half elves. "Yes, and we have no shortage of accepted half elves." The congregation of Iomedae, Ragathiel, and Milani's churches especially were represented particularly within the urban core of the realm. That actually gave the impression that there were more elves in the realm, but the ratio skewed with most of the population being more disproportionately human particularly across his steppe and grassland marches.
Jaethal concluded by idly observing these sorts of problems were precisely the same kind they had been dealing with all along. "Yes we should be used to them, shouldn't we?" He replied slight amusement in his reply. They watched the rest of the council as it milled and clustered in small groups, other conversations playing out.
--
Notes: clean up pending.
Eire found that it was good that his realm was mostly human. Tool use, more importantly the tools to make the tools were sized for humans, and in turn that the steady progress of agriculture ... the use of horses the rotation of crops and other developments more closely resembled now the late 1800s midwest in techniques, and with things like the mccormick reaper, but with far greater centralized large farms. It wasn't an attempt to install a royal monopoly.
He thought back to the conversation informal as it had been with Valerie recognizing that it had turned into the sort of thing he would have preferred to have had on the record... but that was ... not how medieval governance worked... even in modern earth minutes of meetings were a very late development relatively speaking and certainly for informal discussions.
It ultimately was of no consequence. There was little point dwelling on it. Eire spread his hands gesturing for the council to sit so that they could begin, once they had done so, they began with the minutiae ... the recognition of harvest yields and other factors of agrarian life, but also agrarian life on a world like Golarion. Northern Avistan already had the potato of course, but while as a crop, as staple foodstuff it helped there were other things which held back its productivity, or had.
Meiqi was, took the existence of the moldboard plow as a given. That wasn't the same for Akiros who was originally from the south of Avistan. Akiros had also spoken of the tribe which had taken him in, and for which he was accepted as some member of. The conversations were accompanied by the scribbling of Linzi's preferred quill... even as she scrawled away the reminder that Erastil was an ancient curmudgeonly old deity set in his ways. Akiros's words weren't mean spirited or hateful regarding his former, and perhaps still patron deity as he responded to Meiqi's queries about agriculture among the brevic peasantry.
"Such harvests insure well fed cities, and cities are the foundation of the civilized life," The dragon remarked in her courtly eastern accented taldane, a language she was speaking for Akiros's benefit since... the former paladin of Erastil's draconic did leave something to be desired. Still both his and Harrgulka's progress in the language given its usage was more than passable most days... but for today's court it made more sense to use Taldane given the assembled body.
Eire supposed that that might be a hurdle in the future, but it would work for today. Meiqi changed the subject to addressing Hulthrak about the pallets... which for giants were the right size to just be carried where as for humans they were used with skids to move. The venerable stone giant nodded as he informed the dragon about the latest progress in the northern narlmarches along the road of shields. This conversation drew Vordakai in, and Harrgulka as well as Akiros given his fief's proximity to the work in the north.
He allowed the council to discuss things, sitting back and waiting. The ancient cyclops had only limitted knowledge of agriculture... and as a lich even one reduced in power had little need for it personally. He did however have other ideas on how work might be improved, even if for the most part those ideas required magical infrastructure that the kingdom for now lacked. The least controversial was just to expand the efforts of having trained alchemists around, but eventually to move from alchemy to wizarding schools.
"The use of undead labor is an intriguing proposal," Jaethal observed that it was not unheard of, that Geb in the distant south was a nation of undead which employed undead labor, "but addresses a problem we do not readily have to contend with." Eire continued as she finished, "Agriculture is," He paused to take a breath, "Is the dominant portion of most economies but we enjoy a surplus, our shortage of labor is in other areas of the economy."
Vordakai nodded, "Indeed, the toil in the mines would similarly benefit." He remarked, "untiring servants do not make the mistake of tired mortals, and as you have observed time and again the demands on the iron works is unceasing. "which was true, as the bell tolled mid day it was an opportune moment to break. It was just as well Vordakai had some ideas that he had put forward of the relatively small Irriseni population potentially fielding a contingent of necromancers on the kingdom's behalf.
Jaethal fixed him with a look. "I did not bring up Geb for merely the sake of idle comparison."
"Yes?" He inquired having expected the interruption must have been some sort of signal. "There is a development?"
"We have drawn their attention...at first I suspected merely Urgathoa's church," Jaethal's goddess was silent to her, and Eire had not, intentionally so, touched too deeply on the Pallid Princess's tenants. He was however all too aware that Urgathoa's church was powerful in the undead kingdom, and Jaethal was a powerful undead... and so to was Vordakai, and while not in their league Dead Dave was a visible, known figure in the realm as well. "There is another matter," One which dealt with the great schools of the realm... the universities of the kingdom were seminaries, housed seminaries of Iomedae's clergy, "And that seems to have attracted attention from at least one of our visitors from the south."
"This undead is a knight of Ozem?"
"Or was in life." She responded.
Eire felt the headache twinge, and stood at a loss at precisely what it was he was supposed to do in this situation. "Is there any other matter among the churches?" Faiths probably would have been the better word, as Jaethal's smirk flashed.
"Well, there are the goblins, and specifically Lamashtu's faith."
He blew out a warm breath. "Thank you Jaethal all the same."
"And there is Tristian's investigation we will have to remain on our guard for demonic cults likely for the foreseeable future." He reiterated himself a bit more sarcastically this time... with a bit more emphasis. "However I believe we should focus on Geb's visitors."
"I agree," He had no idea what exactly the formal position of Iomedae's church would be to the grave knight, "Has he made formal introduction to court thus far?"
"No." She paused, "There hasn't been time, we are all quite busy this time of the year."Armasse was at least a few weeks out after all, but there was another matter... another holiday. "The next formal court function-"
"Is the Inheritor's Ascendance." He replied drawing stiffly to his full height, "will this create any issue with the Kyonin ambassador."
"Alseta listens to you when you speak," Jaethal replied, "Whatever complaints the kingdom might have of elf gates beyond their control, she is the goddess of them," And thus they had some breathing room, "He'll mention it I'm almost certain, but the gate facilitates trade, facilitates contact across the continent, and there are factions at court who are favorably disposed to more open relations."
That he thought, letting out a small sigh of relief, was at least some good news. The truth was he'd been nervous of dealing with kyonin, and its religious sensibilities. Findeladara's church, and some of the other elven pantheon made things complicated. Then of course there was matter of how to balance the Church of Calistria with Erastil... well Desna was much easier to deal with. "What is the ambassador's opinion of the Ascendance."
Jaethal's expression set, her lipsforming a thin line, "Well Iomedae is a human, chelish goddess, who ascended to divinity. For the most part most conservatives in the kingdom have a hard time reconciling that." She waved off his query that he had been under the impression Aroden had been well respected by the Kingdom, "That is true, but Aroden was the God of Mankind, and an exception to the rule besides... but Kyonin does support Mendev's crusade. That is our most likely path to gaining formal recognition, but such recognition as a peer could still be years away." She added quickly, "Though far faster than I think the conservatives of the kingdom might have preferred it required many years for Andoran to reach this point." ... but Eire recognized Andoran had far fewer elf gates over a much larger territorial expanse... and relatively speaking Narland had not simply a higher proportion of elves to dwarves it had an estimated higher proportion of elves about one in twelve of its urban population and that wasn't counting half elves. "Yes, and we have no shortage of accepted half elves." The congregation of Iomedae, Ragathiel, and Milani's churches especially were represented particularly within the urban core of the realm. That actually gave the impression that there were more elves in the realm, but the ratio skewed with most of the population being more disproportionately human particularly across his steppe and grassland marches.
Jaethal concluded by idly observing these sorts of problems were precisely the same kind they had been dealing with all along. "Yes we should be used to them, shouldn't we?" He replied slight amusement in his reply. They watched the rest of the council as it milled and clustered in small groups, other conversations playing out.
--
Notes: clean up pending.
Last edited:
Demographics of Avistan
New
Imperator Pax
Talon Master
- Joined
- Sep 11, 2019
- Messages
- 6,466
- Likes received
- 91,798
Demographics of Avistan
Major States
(Non exhaustive)
Note: before we begin I plan to put up teaser material for the sequel for this in the next few weeks in the misc thread. This is not dead, I do however need to rewrite a bunch of material from 4715 to the conclusion of this. Originally I was able to update this fairly regularly because I had so much material backlogged, a lot of that is going to have to be rewritten from scratch due to last year.
These are ballpark figures for the major nation states of Avistan for reference and their relative degree of urbanization c. the present part of the story this is non exhaustive and is for broad comparison if you want it... is it canon to pathfinder no, but it is the ballpark numbers I'm working with when writing the story. Lets begin
Brevoy
Population ~ 1.6 Million
Percentage Urban ~ 6%
Cheliax
Population ~ 7 Million
Percentage Urban ~ 8%
Galt
Population ~ 2 Million
Percentage Urban ~ 6%
Taldor
Population ~ 9 Million
Percentage Urban ~ 8%
Andoran
Population ~ 4 Million
Percentage Urban ~6%
Note on the numbers themselves this based on a conservative medieval demography there are two points I want to touch on first this is based on known urban populations in first edition and two is based on conservative medieval demographics which has the problem of not taking into account economic productivity of new world crops that we know avistan cultivates that should support much larger populations. Hence these are relatively small populations based on what we know of canon's urban populations. I put as a result that the unified Taldane empire at its height was probably twenty to thirty million people within its borders and that that population is only just now starting to recover from wars and divine calamity that divided the empire, the civil wars sense.
I'm not touching on Qadira or the satrapies we just don't know enough and again with these numbers they are derived from 1st edition canon sources but 1st edition urban settlements are small even though medieval populations were relatively small but I am assuming that Avistan by and large is sitting that average of six to eight percent urban population for a medieval broadly western european agricultural state despite having new world crops which should have supported a much larger population. Cheliax and Taldor are slightly more urban than Andoran here because its cities are not nearly as impressive as anything Cheliax or Taldor have
I intend to try and update this sooner rather than later with actual story content picking up 4715's events but I do have some other things to undertake first
Major States
(Non exhaustive)
Note: before we begin I plan to put up teaser material for the sequel for this in the next few weeks in the misc thread. This is not dead, I do however need to rewrite a bunch of material from 4715 to the conclusion of this. Originally I was able to update this fairly regularly because I had so much material backlogged, a lot of that is going to have to be rewritten from scratch due to last year.
These are ballpark figures for the major nation states of Avistan for reference and their relative degree of urbanization c. the present part of the story this is non exhaustive and is for broad comparison if you want it... is it canon to pathfinder no, but it is the ballpark numbers I'm working with when writing the story. Lets begin
Brevoy
Population ~ 1.6 Million
Percentage Urban ~ 6%
Cheliax
Population ~ 7 Million
Percentage Urban ~ 8%
Galt
Population ~ 2 Million
Percentage Urban ~ 6%
Taldor
Population ~ 9 Million
Percentage Urban ~ 8%
Andoran
Population ~ 4 Million
Percentage Urban ~6%
Note on the numbers themselves this based on a conservative medieval demography there are two points I want to touch on first this is based on known urban populations in first edition and two is based on conservative medieval demographics which has the problem of not taking into account economic productivity of new world crops that we know avistan cultivates that should support much larger populations. Hence these are relatively small populations based on what we know of canon's urban populations. I put as a result that the unified Taldane empire at its height was probably twenty to thirty million people within its borders and that that population is only just now starting to recover from wars and divine calamity that divided the empire, the civil wars sense.
I'm not touching on Qadira or the satrapies we just don't know enough and again with these numbers they are derived from 1st edition canon sources but 1st edition urban settlements are small even though medieval populations were relatively small but I am assuming that Avistan by and large is sitting that average of six to eight percent urban population for a medieval broadly western european agricultural state despite having new world crops which should have supported a much larger population. Cheliax and Taldor are slightly more urban than Andoran here because its cities are not nearly as impressive as anything Cheliax or Taldor have
I intend to try and update this sooner rather than later with actual story content picking up 4715's events but I do have some other things to undertake first
Mad_Smile2607
Making the rounds.
- Joined
- Mar 30, 2022
- Messages
- 31
- Likes received
- 314
It's all good mate, We're... Well, 'I'm' patient.
A look forward (Prologue Teaser AM2)
New
Imperator Pax
Talon Master
- Joined
- Sep 11, 2019
- Messages
- 6,466
- Likes received
- 91,798
The sunlight was warm. The wind a fine breeze. Clean air abounded. What should have been a good day... it was a good day for actually conducting the tour.
It was the 7th year of her reign. Shaoyu did not appreciate the reminder of her coronation as she surveyed the complex weirds on the Casmarron shoreline. The shoreline that was ... had been long ago the territorial boundary put to paper of a charter recognizing the largest of the baronies. It was absurd to think of it as such... to think of such an outlandish land grant. Of Restov thinking it was in a position to grant so wide an expanse... but it had put the words to paper and that endowment that nominal recognition even if Restov had been ignorant how far away the shores of the Castrovin sea were.
The reminder of her coronation was a painful one, reminding her of the Arch Dragon's absence.
Amvarean, her half sister, and Meiqi all concurred he would return one day... and for a dragon a handful of years was nothing. That was a poor salve for the weight of the crown she bore. Yet from Ilthuliak's horde the sunflower orchid elixer promised Shaoyu... had promised Eire originally... that Valerie could be wither as chancellor.
Jaethal crossed the space, deathly grace of a goddess's chosen, and joined her overlooking the fisheries that required only little labor freeing workers to tend boats, repair the tradeships that went south, or watch for the threat of hostile things lurking in the depths. This was the boundary of the Empire... Eire's word had been Imperium, self governing with its own laws, and traditions codified in the written word and proliferated. It did not matter if the real distance had been known to Restov of how many miles this shoreline was from the Varnhold... it was hers to rule over now.
"We should return." The elf remarked.
This tour was important of course. It was not just the infrastructure ... food bearing being important ... which was important it was consecrating the temple to Sarenrae here... that was an important part of her duties as sovereign of the realm, especially given the ties the youngest of Avistan's empires held with the Padishah across the waters in southern Casmarron.
The temple to Sarenrae was immense, beautiful and also reflective of how Narland built its state churches. It shared features with the dome basilica of the Azlanti though Sarenrae had existed before the ancient empire of mankind had rose. It shared the projecting form of other great churches of the realm... and was actually quite large... more so by the sprawling gardens that flanked the main approach through the courtyard.
It was intended to remind Padishah envoys who arrived by ship or those who travelled across the steppe and the profitable trade routes overland that their faith in the Dawnflower was counted here. That the Sarenrite clergy held Imperial standing and recognition for their services to the realm. Coming to a stop in the apse of the church Shaoyu looked at the painted mosaics and let out a quiet breath, one bereft of sparks as she felt the divine energy.
She clapped her hands, closed her eyes. "Goddess Victorious." She invoked the whorl of divine fire, embracing her and her chief counselor, and by Iomedae's grace whisked them far from the distant east of the realm to its far north west... and the border with Numeria. To the next stop on her tour of the realm lay the Megaroad Fortress.
It was the great highway that ran from the Imperial Core to the Land of the Falling Stars. Eire had named the city Macross with one of his faraway wry smiles. The memory of when Macross city had been new and the starfarer ship buried in the chasm to the underdark reminded her that the anniversary of her coronation drew closer. She gave a hiss of sparks and annoyance adn resisted the urge to curse Shyka despite all promises and assurances that Eire would return someday through the lands of Faerie.
The Temple here was... had common traits, but was more distinct from the great temple of Sarenrae she had presided over constructing. The cathedral to the Bronze Lady had been sketched from something of memory from somewhere far away by Eire, and its great clocktowers and many spires had been an architectural marvel dominating the skyline. Nearby lay Casandalee's, a goddess who was younger than Shaoyu herself, own cathedral had been built more inline with Azlanti designs, with more domes and open study spaces than Brigh's sheer vertical rise.
What made Brigh's cathedral arguably more important though was that the Megaroad fortress was that this was a great center of industry. The Megaroad itself was the first successful large railway in the land. It was a defining achievement of her time as sovreign. It meant that large coal driven steam engines could carry less important freight and passengers north from the Imperial Core, or south from the works here, while the fortress could continue to support Narland's fleet of Airships. Those airships floating high above, serene and oblique above the clouds were a reminder too that the crusades in Mendev had come to an end... and that in theory SHaoyu's reign was one of peace.
One of the clerics of the bronze lady made his approach, and she released her firsts that she hadn't recalled balling and strode forward to accept the welcome from the highest scholar in the local branch of faith. With her bright red hair she contrasted sharply among the predominantly chelish humans of the party who welcomed her after the initial pleasantries.
The bespectacled tinkerer smiled more broadly than most of her coreligionists did. He had ink smudges on his fingers... and possibly soot and grease from his labors on behalf of the bronze lady... he'd been diligently at work on some mechanism or another. Brigh's church was full of tinkerers and craftsmen... Casandalee was accepted and offered hospitality but the young goddess was a goddess of diplomacy and intellectual discussion... and Shaoyu had promised on her coronation to invest her time and the realm's efforts to forge greatness, borrowing a quip from Eire quoting a great statesmen about Iron and Blood.
It was one of her hidden concerns how much that address to the parliament had borrowed from the arch dragon's lessons... but today was about the success of the realm, and its potential troubles. "I was told there was activity from the underdark." She remarked, "Has there been any further trouble with the duergar?"
The cleric shook his head, "No your highness, troublemakers do reach us from other parts of the underdark from time to time... but most of our difficulties lay in the ... waste fluids and the mutations caused from the leaks of the Starfarer." Which was nothing new that had been a difficulty that had existed since they discovered the buried ship. "I see," Eire had called the alphabet it used something else, Latin based, English was the language, which apparently Irrisen's queen had some familiarity with as well... rather strangely Anastasia of Irrisen had stated that her father had been cousin to a king of the English, but had been completely taken aback at the discovery of Starfarer's buried hulk. Deep down given what had lead to the discovery of ancient ship, Shaoyu suspected that it had been brought to Golarion by more of Shyka's meddling... but it was possible she allowed that Shyka had simply known of its translocation through space. "Have there been any further developments with the ship?" After all its internal tram system had set the standard width of rails for which the kingdom had adopted... among other lessons learned and used over the course of her reign.
It was the 7th year of her reign. Shaoyu did not appreciate the reminder of her coronation as she surveyed the complex weirds on the Casmarron shoreline. The shoreline that was ... had been long ago the territorial boundary put to paper of a charter recognizing the largest of the baronies. It was absurd to think of it as such... to think of such an outlandish land grant. Of Restov thinking it was in a position to grant so wide an expanse... but it had put the words to paper and that endowment that nominal recognition even if Restov had been ignorant how far away the shores of the Castrovin sea were.
The reminder of her coronation was a painful one, reminding her of the Arch Dragon's absence.
Amvarean, her half sister, and Meiqi all concurred he would return one day... and for a dragon a handful of years was nothing. That was a poor salve for the weight of the crown she bore. Yet from Ilthuliak's horde the sunflower orchid elixer promised Shaoyu... had promised Eire originally... that Valerie could be wither as chancellor.
Jaethal crossed the space, deathly grace of a goddess's chosen, and joined her overlooking the fisheries that required only little labor freeing workers to tend boats, repair the tradeships that went south, or watch for the threat of hostile things lurking in the depths. This was the boundary of the Empire... Eire's word had been Imperium, self governing with its own laws, and traditions codified in the written word and proliferated. It did not matter if the real distance had been known to Restov of how many miles this shoreline was from the Varnhold... it was hers to rule over now.
"We should return." The elf remarked.
This tour was important of course. It was not just the infrastructure ... food bearing being important ... which was important it was consecrating the temple to Sarenrae here... that was an important part of her duties as sovereign of the realm, especially given the ties the youngest of Avistan's empires held with the Padishah across the waters in southern Casmarron.
The temple to Sarenrae was immense, beautiful and also reflective of how Narland built its state churches. It shared features with the dome basilica of the Azlanti though Sarenrae had existed before the ancient empire of mankind had rose. It shared the projecting form of other great churches of the realm... and was actually quite large... more so by the sprawling gardens that flanked the main approach through the courtyard.
It was intended to remind Padishah envoys who arrived by ship or those who travelled across the steppe and the profitable trade routes overland that their faith in the Dawnflower was counted here. That the Sarenrite clergy held Imperial standing and recognition for their services to the realm. Coming to a stop in the apse of the church Shaoyu looked at the painted mosaics and let out a quiet breath, one bereft of sparks as she felt the divine energy.
She clapped her hands, closed her eyes. "Goddess Victorious." She invoked the whorl of divine fire, embracing her and her chief counselor, and by Iomedae's grace whisked them far from the distant east of the realm to its far north west... and the border with Numeria. To the next stop on her tour of the realm lay the Megaroad Fortress.
It was the great highway that ran from the Imperial Core to the Land of the Falling Stars. Eire had named the city Macross with one of his faraway wry smiles. The memory of when Macross city had been new and the starfarer ship buried in the chasm to the underdark reminded her that the anniversary of her coronation drew closer. She gave a hiss of sparks and annoyance adn resisted the urge to curse Shyka despite all promises and assurances that Eire would return someday through the lands of Faerie.
The Temple here was... had common traits, but was more distinct from the great temple of Sarenrae she had presided over constructing. The cathedral to the Bronze Lady had been sketched from something of memory from somewhere far away by Eire, and its great clocktowers and many spires had been an architectural marvel dominating the skyline. Nearby lay Casandalee's, a goddess who was younger than Shaoyu herself, own cathedral had been built more inline with Azlanti designs, with more domes and open study spaces than Brigh's sheer vertical rise.
What made Brigh's cathedral arguably more important though was that the Megaroad fortress was that this was a great center of industry. The Megaroad itself was the first successful large railway in the land. It was a defining achievement of her time as sovreign. It meant that large coal driven steam engines could carry less important freight and passengers north from the Imperial Core, or south from the works here, while the fortress could continue to support Narland's fleet of Airships. Those airships floating high above, serene and oblique above the clouds were a reminder too that the crusades in Mendev had come to an end... and that in theory SHaoyu's reign was one of peace.
One of the clerics of the bronze lady made his approach, and she released her firsts that she hadn't recalled balling and strode forward to accept the welcome from the highest scholar in the local branch of faith. With her bright red hair she contrasted sharply among the predominantly chelish humans of the party who welcomed her after the initial pleasantries.
The bespectacled tinkerer smiled more broadly than most of her coreligionists did. He had ink smudges on his fingers... and possibly soot and grease from his labors on behalf of the bronze lady... he'd been diligently at work on some mechanism or another. Brigh's church was full of tinkerers and craftsmen... Casandalee was accepted and offered hospitality but the young goddess was a goddess of diplomacy and intellectual discussion... and Shaoyu had promised on her coronation to invest her time and the realm's efforts to forge greatness, borrowing a quip from Eire quoting a great statesmen about Iron and Blood.
It was one of her hidden concerns how much that address to the parliament had borrowed from the arch dragon's lessons... but today was about the success of the realm, and its potential troubles. "I was told there was activity from the underdark." She remarked, "Has there been any further trouble with the duergar?"
The cleric shook his head, "No your highness, troublemakers do reach us from other parts of the underdark from time to time... but most of our difficulties lay in the ... waste fluids and the mutations caused from the leaks of the Starfarer." Which was nothing new that had been a difficulty that had existed since they discovered the buried ship. "I see," Eire had called the alphabet it used something else, Latin based, English was the language, which apparently Irrisen's queen had some familiarity with as well... rather strangely Anastasia of Irrisen had stated that her father had been cousin to a king of the English, but had been completely taken aback at the discovery of Starfarer's buried hulk. Deep down given what had lead to the discovery of ancient ship, Shaoyu suspected that it had been brought to Golarion by more of Shyka's meddling... but it was possible she allowed that Shyka had simply known of its translocation through space. "Have there been any further developments with the ship?" After all its internal tram system had set the standard width of rails for which the kingdom had adopted... among other lessons learned and used over the course of her reign.
Last edited:
firefrog600
Connoisseur.
- Joined
- Dec 20, 2017
- Messages
- 10,401
- Likes received
- 43,125
How's tech progression going with I assume them looting the land of sci-fi bullshit?
Imperator Pax
Talon Master
- Joined
- Sep 11, 2019
- Messages
- 6,466
- Likes received
- 91,798
honestly not as much as you might assume by this point it is pushing the tech progression with machine tooling and interchangeable parts by Shaoyu's reign but there isn't a reliable way to go beyond simple circuitry yet and early radio loses out to magical abilities... unless you're in Alkenstar which has to deal with the Mana wastes impeding arcane magic so they're starting to get radio up and running but its early radio c. pre ww2
firefrog600
Connoisseur.
- Joined
- Dec 20, 2017
- Messages
- 10,401
- Likes received
- 43,125
Huh would have thought they'd of found a fabricator of some kind somewhere for the smaller parts. Of course a 3d printer wouldn't help with mass production but they could at least build some tools to build some other tools to help them ramp up some stuff twenty years ahead of themselves.
Imperator Pax
Talon Master
- Joined
- Sep 11, 2019
- Messages
- 6,466
- Likes received
- 91,798
It'll make more sense when we get into Starfarer in c. 4717, there is machine tool;ing aboard but as with most of Numeria adjacent stuff its been sitting unusued or underutilized for a long timed
firefrog600
Connoisseur.
- Joined
- Dec 20, 2017
- Messages
- 10,401
- Likes received
- 43,125
A lot would likely be destroyed but there are spells for repairing stuff. Of course a lot of that wouldn't work on the stuff there. Also things like security or lack of know how.