Esquestria: The House of the Sun - A pony cultist experience

[Talon Tiger Dino]

That's literally just Overview with a warning under a different plan name?

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It is formatted more properly though.

 

[Pittauro]

Do we also want to drop something like 'we coerced / blackmailed Velvet Covers to help us', or would that be too overboard? Something like in the finances there's mention of Velvet Covers and the 'costs' of using her. Something like that.

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that's foolish. it would lead to death by sun.

We're beyond suspicion right now, and we want to keep it that way.

Pittauro-posting:

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EDIT: Also this may have been the longest update ever? It's the longest thread mark at least, though that doesn't count spoilered text so maybe it's beaten by the PtN or the Nat100 book search.

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the PtN one is 13072 words, so longer.

SH one was 24761 words.

so... yeah, not the longest. but still probably top 5, maybe even 3rd place.

I don't think we should leave anything. Either the cult's remnants will be enough to find the Lores, or it won't and we should find another way. This assault was in part to clean up after ourselves, lets not leave more loose threads to be pulled on.

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I'm considering leaving Grail and Forge lore. that way we have a way to introduce Redemption of the Forge to the Bureau, and we can justify Velvet using it to restore Shining's horn... and after that, Twilight.

Even better, we give it a 2 or 3 turns, and then we can have Velvet "discover" her talent for reagent making, and make the reagents for those rituals on the Bureau's budget!

This is also a way to introduce the healing ritual to Equestria, potentially.

@OurLadyOfWires if we were to leave evidence explaining Grail, Forge, and Redemption of the Forge, would the Bureau immediately understand the OTHER possible rituals even without any knowledge of Winter, Moth and so on?

And re: our betrayal, I think it's more referring to the whole "we were hiding Luna from the cult this whole time" thing. Which yes, is technically a betrayal, but in our defense we didn't actually intend it as one!

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we very much DID intend it as a betrayal!

let's not kid ourselves, the LOYAL course of action would have been to deliver Luna to the cult immediately. The Master would have likely possessed her like he did Shining after that. Maybe use Incision to "remove" her consciousness, living only the body behind.

Then he could have gone back to Celestia, subvert her when and how he wanted, and basically take control of the country.

What is Neighnia doing out of town? Did she possibly leave Copper's service due to a failure to pay upkeep costs?

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near impossible. she might have gone on an expedition though. Maybe a follow-up attack on our estate with the other Windigoes?

I thought one of our choices when establishing the bureau precluded directly tampering with evidence.

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we can't once they're in official custody. If we're in the expedition that finds them we MIGHT be able to steal or destroy them before the detectives notice them and officially record them though.

More likely she just continues her vendetta from another city, this time with more firepower since we managed to repel the first attack.

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part of me still wonders if we could have forced a surrender... but still, what's done is done

For those complaining about the vault and loose ends, it isnt like they were the ONLY loose ends.

A ton of the lower level cultists got away, and it only takes one of them to slip the Bureau's net and find someone with Talent to start a whole new problem.


And Windy is still out there.

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We don't really care too much about the cultists. They won't know about Velvet, and will by default be far less skilled than Copper.

It will also take them months to become an actual problem. Months we can use to actually introduce the lores to the bureau, achieve sacraments, reach glory, progress memory of light, become a Long/Hour and so on.

So why are we trying to befriend Baldomare instead of Mareinette? So far I haven't seen any proof of her being untrustworthy, in fact I only have seen proof of being a great ally at the very least and a great friend at best, she's also rolling well unlike Baldomare

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Because Mareinette is implied to have as an ultimate goal to have us WILLINGLY eat Silky.

Also she's an Alukite. that means that she DID eat her own children in the past. And she'd do it again.

in addition to being a cannibal, implied to have a certain fondness for sweet little children...

...actually I'm not sure Selene would have to roll for the safe itself, logically, since she has previously demonstrated to capable of both a) long-range teleportation (as Luna) and b) making a big fucking explosion (just now).

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the big fucking explosion is fairly uncontrolled. she might not WANT to destroy everything in the immediate vicinity of the Safe, you know.

The Sacrament simply requires us to prove ourselves a capable devotee of Edge by wounding him, it is not a commitment to a particular creed. It is, for a given definition, safe even, since he will call the ritual off if we get to one wound whereas a Worthy Foe won't stop until one or both of us are dead.

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There's of course a chance he might accidentally hurt us too much, if he deals two wounds at once...

but at least "Dancing with Death" offers some more wiggling room.

How Equestria with time travel spells? I know there were few in the show. Is future Velvet dropping in, blowing up building along with her enemies and leaving few Manuscripts for Bureau too out there as explanation?

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There's ONE known time travel spell (Starlight Glimmer improves it later on), and all it allows you to do is basically go back in the past, for I think about one minute (and I think ONCE in your life, but I might remember that bit wrong from fanfics), and it establishes a closed time loop in that you can't really change the past with it.

Twilight tried to warn herself about... I think NOT worrying about stuff, she failed to pass the whole message, she got into a panic and worried herself sick, and in the end tried to go back in the past to stop herself from worrying about stuff, and.... so the loop closed.

Imagine giving Baldomare a Forge six crowbar and a time travel spell and sending her off to do the job right the first time, just because we know that the Name of Secret Histories will be able to work with and around herself without any more trouble than a severe headache.

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Ironically that's potentially possible. Shame that it requires

1)A mage on the level of Twilight Sparkle to accomplish that
2)Access to the time travel spell in the royal archives in a secret section of it

Copper Quest Final episode, "Fuck Around and Find Out"

Game over You Died.

Final QM note you really should not have sent so little to attack Velvet.

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Or alternatively: "You know, your best course of action was unconditional surrender instead of attacking. She actually WOULD have been willing to accept and discuss terms after that."

Should we look for Neighnia next turn with Baldomare's action? I don't like the idea of a Name that already tried to kill us being somewhere we don't know.

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I'll seriously consider both Baldomare and Jade scrying for Manuscripts AND Neighnia.

Luckily we got lots of loot, hopefully enough bits for two more short expeditions as well.

and hey, it took only 3 days, so we should have saved 50 bits!

I wouldn't forget this: my interpretation is that each entry in the plan lowers the detection breakpoint/DC. So we better not get too fancy; my guess is that around two entries should be a decent tradeoff.

Also
says "One or several"; I'm not sure whether that's referring just to the number of copies we're leaving behind or the number of Lores we can reference. There is a chance Our Lady of Wires messed this up (@OurLadyOfWires to clarify) but it sounds like we may leave behind multiple manuscripts with different lores for the cost of checking that one box. If we want the Bureau or Eclipse to advance rapidly, we could give them our whole library, except maybe Lantern, to not advance the doom clock. Our library is at
so that's a lot of progress we could give.

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leaving everything EXCEPT Lantern I think would be too suspicious.

my proposal is to leave Grail and Forge, so we can introduce Redemption of the Forge to the Bureau, and then "officially" have Shining be the first test subject. Followed by Twilight.

Velvet can "study" those manuscripts for two turns, and then perform the rituals. She can even discover her affinity for alchemy.

---

aaand posting this, I'll try to fully catch up in a bit

 

[Talon Tiger Dino]

I like the style of what you are saying, @Pittauro.

A useful introduction into the Lores, with a bit of proof that you can do some good with them.

 

[Pittauro]

Before the threat runs further away I want to throw an idea into the ring as well:

Why not plant the rituals for The Forge's Redemption and/or The Incision of the Heart?

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hah, someone mentioned it before me

That would be the ritual (which implicitly includes both 1-circle and 2-circle knowledge), Forge 2, Grail 1...

Two Circle Rituals with lores that they aren't aware exists?
Along with the Implication of One Circle Rituals?

Along with the implication of, if people are clever, in a few turns... scrying?

Yes we should. But this is not the time or place.

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we'd have to plant grail and forge knowledge as well. Then have Velvet "officially" reach Forge 3, so she could use her alchemical reagents to help the Bureau's healing rituals.

also no risk of them finding out about scrying, that was a custom ritual, not one of the basic "self-evident" ones.

Before anyone asks, this suggestion is legal.

You are allowed to "plant" any information that can be reduced to writing. Rituals, Name-invocations, the existence of the Worms, Lore manuscripts, whatever. Just remember you are capped at your Library's lore levels, not Velvet's lore levels.

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name-bonuses included or excluded?

and, as I asked in my previous post, would describing forge, grail and redemption of the forge also reveal PtN and other rituals? I imagine not the ones for which they don't know the lores.

So we'd also be revealing 1-circle Attention of the Laws, and probably the Influence ritual.

-That the evidence can still be considered crazy, unreliable, or that it might backfire in some unexpected way.

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I don't consider this a major problem for Redemption of the Forge.

With Velvet, Shining and Cadance in the know, we can have them take the "foolish hope" of a ritual capable of healing a horn, and do it in private if the Bureau dismisses its legitimacy.

After that, we'd have proof the ritual works.

And to be abundantly clear, none of these are threats, and none of these are the QM "forcefully suggesting" you guys pick "nothing". If Velvet thought this was a horrible idea I wouldn't have offered the vote to begin with. I'm just reminding you all the dice are unpredictable, and that doing something as small as "encouraging a friend to keep faith" already had results like "Twilight Sparkle".

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Bird, why do you have to mention THAT as an example?!

I'm still here wondering if you secretly rolled for that disaster, and what were the odds...

It's been more than 10 turns, can't you tell us?!

Yeah but we've seen what a Hero Unit's stats look like. Shining rocked a +25 to combat that was labeled (Heroic). That's still 34 points short of hitting 159 even on a Nat 100. Like, I don't think OurLadyofWires is lying to us when he said that 150 is impossible for mortals to achieve.

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very best they could get is something like

nat 100

+

15 to 20 (top in their field stat. technically can go up to 20, but it's that's basically once in a generation)

+

5 to 20 (traits. more than two +10 traits applicable seems nearly impossible.

+

10 (situational bonuses from other supporting rolls succeeding, in the best case scenario).

So I think the best and most lucky mortals MIGHT reach a +150 if LITERALLY everything goes right.

more realistically the Bureau likely peaks at 130 or so here. 140 in the best/worst realistic case.

So you are saying that we could "redeem her"?

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I don't consider it impossible, but I believe that redeeming Mareinette would be far harder than redeeming the Master.

for that, ALL we needed to do was reaching Glory and protecting the Wake. I think we could have negotiated or buried old grudges after that.

If we had allowed his plan to proceed, it's not impossible that the future Alicorn Master would have been satisfied with how things stood in the epilogue.

Mareinette, though? I find her to be harder to placate long term without allowing her to pursue her... delights.

I suppose she could be allowed to "feast" on criminals? Kinda like how in Harry Potter the Dementors are kept mostly under control by giving them plenty of prisoners to feast on.

Would the paranoia malus effect the investigation because that might allow more leeway to the ammount of evidence we can plant if the case is that planting more evidence adds to the investigators bonus additively?

Also I hope that the loot we got is like reagents and artifacts and if we are really lucky hopefully a level 7 book to finish Baldomare's FRIENDSHIP QUEST TM gotta get those perma summons to cut on costs and also get some of that sweet sweet worldbuilding.

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lvl 7 books seems extremely unlikely. lvl 5 or 6 is possible though.

I'm hoping bits, personally. we'll need bits for canterlot part 3, follow-up on Neighnia and Manuscripts, rituals, Biedde's upkeep...

Give a DC 159 some credit. At some point we need to take some marginal risk to allow them to be effective, and this is the best opportunity we're going to have.

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agreed.

Sure, they might not believe the intel, but I don't think it will lead back to us.

Even if, say, we reduced that DC to 139 (-20) it would still be at the edge of what mortals can accomplish on a nat100!

That said, I'd rather introduce them to Redemption of the Forge (and connected ritual), and use it to justify Velvet's alchemical reagents that can help with those rituals.

Bit busy next turn.

Axe sacrament, healing scar (Cadence and Selene witness) and a SH Sacrament action are more important.

Besides if we send out servants or Jade for heart books we'll get heart 4 pretty soon.

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I'd rather have Jade do scrying for manuscripts or neighnia.

but we'll see.

I like the style of what you are saying, @Pittauro.

A useful introduction into the Lores, with a bit of proof that you can do some good with them.

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I wonder if we'd want to introduce MORE lores, but I think Forge and Grail and the healing ritual are fairly safe. we probably want to avoid giving them lantern, and giving EVERYTHING BUT LANTERN might just appear too suspicious.

Maybe we could add Heart or Edge? Heart is fairly positive in general, and Edge is useful to combat and justifies lores being shared with the Bureau's constables...

but I don't want us to overextend ourselves. I'd be satisfied with just Forge and Grail. it helps that Copper's is a GRAIL cult, so they might find more evidence of that lore specifically too.

 

[Earth-Destroyer]

I think it a good idea to leave either grail, heart, or forge lore behind. So Celestial will waste a turn on learning it.

 

[Pittauro]

so, a reminder

The Master:
-Lores: [MOTH 7] [LANTERN 5] [FORGE 5] [EDGE 5] [WINTER 5] [HEART 5] [GRAIL 5] [KNOCK 5] [SECRET HISTORIES 5]
-Info: The guide and lord of the Wildhoof Club, the first occult organization to appear after so long, she is perhaps the oldest and greatest eldritch creature to ever walk the Wake in the present Era. He was also, you learned the hardest way possible, the Will of the Woods. Or perhaps she was the Woods itself. But none of that matters now, because SHE BELONGS TO THE WOLF NOW

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we dealt with the Master.. to some partial regrets.

Comet Feet:
(Moved to "Your Friends" section under "Fluttershy")

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Spoiler: Comet Feet

--You have reached an understanding with Comet Feet.
--Velvet Covers may not teach the Lores to Fluttershy. And in return, Comet Feet will "step in" to perform any actions, in Fluttershy's stead, that he considers dangerous, or that are dangerously involved with the Lores.
--Comet Feet, in particular, is not your friend. But thanks to this understanding, he probably isn't your enemy either. You will endeavor to keep things this way.

Spoiler: Comet Feet A large pegasus with a gruff expression that you could easily picture as a member of the guard. He was formerly the pony in charge of the cult's "dirty business". But now, he lives a life of reclusion together with Fluttershy. And you will not pry any further than that.

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We have reached an understanding with Comet Feet.

Starry Dancer:
-Lores: [HEART]
-Info: A pink pegasus mare. What she seems to have in good intentions she also seems to have in clumsiness, but maybe you're being too hard on her. She (supposedly) was in charge of the cult's formal talking. And back when you were still talking, you think she thought she owed you. On top of that, you also heard she was either illiterate, or had a great difficulty with reading. And also that she was very close to the Master, perhaps even to the point of depending on her. Eventually, you learned she was a neglected foal who had been raised under abusive circumstances, which eventually turned her into an outcast of the same society she so insistently tried to be a part of. She died, in agony, when the Woods burned, as she foolishly tried to save the only thing she had ever loved. DECEASED

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We have caused the death of Starry Dancer. This hits even harder when we remember that she probably considered us a friend, maybe even her closest (pony) friend, after the help we gave her that one time...

We even considered having Cherilee teach her to read, or use incision if her problem could be healed that way... it was not to be.

Copper Secateur:
[SHE IS CURRENTLY YOUR ENEMY]
-Lores: [GRAIL]
-Info: The very first cult member you met, an earth pony mare who was in charge of scouting out recruits. She can be terribly sly when she wants to, and apparently was also in charge of other "shady businesses" in the cult. Presently, however, she is your foe, and the two of you have already tried to kill each other at least once. Eventually, after she failed to kill you again, you one-upped her one last time. DECEASED

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yeah, there's not much more we could have done to one-up her, really. 4 Names AND the princess the cult was after all this time, who called us MOTHER?

Truly, I think I would have had a psychotic break and started laughing as well if I had been in her shoes.

and, another failure of ours, because SHE was, at the very beginning, actually our closest friend in the cult. The one that recruited us, the one Velvet OWED the most (beside Stormchaser and Silky) for her recovery...

and she DID express doubts about some of the stuff the cult did, once upon a time. We might have been able to recruit her, if we approached her early and with the right arguments...

Jade Whistle
(Moved to "Your Friends" section)

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-Info: An earth pony mare of aloof demeanor and almost-permanent neutral expression. She was formerly in charge of the "occult" doings of the Cult, but has since taken to following you instead.
You have learned that she had a younger brother, who perished after a terrible accident. The same accident that caused her family to fracture and... "leave". Still, she is an extremely observant and intelligent mare. Although she has difficulty bonding with other ponies, and even more difficulty taking care of herself.
She is making progress though. And you trust she is on the right path.

-Extra:
--Jade Whistle will react negatively if she fails a task you give her, and is generally more fragile to psychological difficulties.
--Jade Whistle can perform certain researches that, generally, would be exclusive to Velvet Covers.

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Our One Big Success in the cult. And, let's be real, it was in large part a matter of luck too.

...and this leaves only one last thread untied...

Windy Flakes
-Lores: [WINTER]
-Info: Formerly in charge of the cult's finances, a unicorn who always seemed to have a grin on his face, despite his strange sense of humor. He disappeared from Ponyville after the Cult's dissolution, and you are slightly worried about what he is doing, given his... interests.

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If we gain Neighnia soon, I think there's still a chance we might recruit him. Otherwise... or if he's already too deep in the Wolf...

I think it a good idea to leave either grail, heart, or forge lore behind. So Celestial will waste a turn on learning it.

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side note, do we actually KNOW those are her lores? Because if I remember right we only know about Lantern for sure. We were initially assuming she'd have the lores Luna does not, but we have no proof of it I think.

 

[Shaper47]

I'd rather have Jade do scrying for manuscripts or neighnia.

but we'll see.

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It's more servants and Fluttershy would be good for covering bases. So we'd need somepony to get the books.

Besides it's an easy win for Jade. Something she can do that she'll feel useful about that plays to her strengths.

Though if we get another good friend we can also leash them to get another confident. So we'll see what happens

 

[Sveta08]

Mareinette, though? I find her to be harder to placate long term without allowing her to pursue her... delights.

I suppose she could be allowed to "feast" on criminals? Kinda like how in Harry Potter the Dementors are kept mostly under control by giving them plenty of prisoners to feast on.

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This might be unhelpful for the current discussion, yes, but...

Come now! I thought the path to Mareinette's friendship was clear! It's not aquiecing to her desires, nor entierly subverting them to our cause. Truth be told, while Silky may be a precious prize, I imagine that isn't quite where her eyes are focused.

No. I would wager that, of everything, what Mareintette wants most right now... is a Sister. And Velvet has such affinity for her... family, yes?

 

[Greymere]

the big fucking explosion is fairly uncontrolled. she might not WANT to destroy everything in the immediate vicinity of the Safe, you know.

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Hence why I also mentioned long-range teleportation

You know, nab the safe, teleport to the middle of nowhere, and then big boom.

 

[spiderhellian]

my proposal is to leave Grail and Forge, so we can introduce Redemption of the Forge to the Bureau, and then "officially" have Shining be the first test subject. Followed by Twilight.

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I really worry about this causing complications without ritual next turn.

If we tell them about us doing it, it's bizarre — "Comissioner, we have discovered a peculiar piece of magic in our investigations" "Really? COWABUNGA IT IS!"

If we don't, then we have a notable boost in health around trained investigators immediately after almost dying, and immediately after they discover a health boosting ritual.

It's better than nothing, but I do worry about messiness.

we'd have to plant grail and forge knowledge as well. Then have Velvet "officially" reach Forge 3, so she could use her alchemical reagents to help the Bureau's healing rituals

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This seems to put things off for so, so, long.

 

[spiderhellian]

Mareinette, though? I find her to be harder to placate long term without allowing her to pursue her... delights.

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No. I would wager that, of everything, what Mareintette wants most right now... is a Sister. And Velvet has such affinity for her... family, yes?

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We know what Mareientte's friendship quest is.

[-] Accept her "Invitation to Dinner"
-"Tie the knot. Make a friend."

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Seems very clearly the Sacrament!

 

[Rafuki22]

Seems very clearly the Sacrament!

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So we leave her sacrament alone until we have to rebind her?

 

[Pittauro]

It's more servants and Fluttershy would be good for covering bases. So we'd need somepony to get the books.

Besides it's an easy win for Jade. Something she can do that she'll feel useful about that plays to her strengths.

Though if we get another good friend we can also leash them to get another confident. So we'll see what happens

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uh, now that I think about it with Mareinette about to grail the Rich couple we could have THEM get us books.

and hey, maybe we'll get lucky and there was an heart book in the loot.

still, we'll see.

This might be unhelpful for the current discussion, yes, but...

Come now! I thought the path to Mareinette's friendship was clear! It's not aquiecing to her desires, nor entierly subverting them to our cause. Truth be told, while Silky may be a precious prize, I imagine that isn't quite where her eyes are focused.

No. I would wager that, of everything, what Mareintette wants most right now... is a Sister. And Velvet has such affinity for her... family, yes?

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As of right now I imagine becoming her sister would include taking part in her feast.

By which I mean grail sacrament.

That said, hey, maybe the Heart sacrament will be a tamer alternative.

I really worry about this causing complications without ritual next turn.

If we tell them about us doing it, it's bizarre — "Comissioner, we have discovered a peculiar piece of magic in our investigations" "Really? COWABUNGA IT IS!"

If we don't, then we have a notable boost in health around trained investigators immediately after almost dying, and immediately after they discover a health boosting ritual.

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Velvet kept her scar secret, Cadance only knew because we EXPLICITLY told her.

and with Moth 4 I imagine Velvet is really good at hiding them.

the recovered health is not particularly suspicious. USING that ritual IS a bit suspicious... but hey, Velvet would presumably pretend to study those books for months, and justify it as "it just clicked with me", and pretend to be a lore genius.

Give it two or three months, enough time for Velvet to "discover" her affinity for alchemy that can help with the ritual, and we can pass of the suspicious behaviour as a reckless desire to help our friend's husband.

This seems to put things off for so, so, long.

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not that long.

two turns, three or four at worst. And if we don't do it now it will only take longer.

We know what Mareientte's friendship quest is.


Seems very clearly the Sacrament!

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that's what I meant by delight.

Though, to be fair, we don't yet know her OTHER Sacrament, so who knows, maybe there's another way.

 

[DelightedOne]

Besides it's an easy win for Jade. Something she can do that she'll feel useful about that plays to her strengths.

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My pact with Harmony makes it one of my responsibilties to remind you all that Jade also has 50% chance of finishing A Memory of Light in a single turn+ a reroll.

 

[Shaper47]

uh, now that I think about it with Mareinette about to grail the Rich couple we could have THEM get us books.

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Hmm, wouldn't they be better for covering bases?

Narratively servants have numbers and Jade has lantern eyes for book searching. It doesn't really play to Rich's strengths.

Then again we want lots of books. At least 4 level 3 heart books. So maybe we should send two search groups. We have the bits for the books in our loot probably.

 

[OurLadyOfWires]

That was a good nap. Damn, I'm beat this weekend.

So.

Plan Forge and Forgery

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You need to put the little "bracketed X" before a plan name for it to be tallied.

Actually @OurLadyOfWires, does including mutliple manuscripts count as multiple 'counts' against our evidence-hiding DC, or just one? Because if it only counts as one, then...

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Each manuscript is a separate evidence.

And if you want a bit of the narrative explanation, those would be "planted" throughout the building while your team made its way up. They spent a lot of time sneaking their way up, and checked several empty/partially-used rooms while going there. So, they planted those manuscripts (if any) on the several conspicuous nooks and crannies they chanced upon.

But again, one Lore is one separate evidence.

@OurLadyOfWires
Actually would revealing the threat the Worms pose in evidence include the possession of Luna in this write in or should I do a seperate plant about the Cult infiltrating the dream of Luna triggering her disappearance because that would allow us to show that we are making progress with hunting the perpetrators of the attack and also would give Celestia valuable info like I posit above in B?

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Good question.

Existence of the worms is one evidence. Knowledge worms possessed Luna is another evidence.



And finally, I want to make something very clear.

First, this is an "open" vote. Meaning that you guys have a lot of liberty on what to do, but also very little ability to predict how this will turn out.
Ironically, I have two very good examples of how this happened before.
One of them was when you guys voted on "what to tell Cadance". And you ended up telling her something positive she carried with her, and that helped you two get closer.
The other one was when you guys voted on "what to tell Twilight". And that eventually changed the rolls on her mental state when you rescued her later on.
So remember, this is a shot in the dark.

Second, and this is important, planting Lore-levels does NOT translate to the Bureau immediately "learning" said Lores.
Of course, planting a higher level of a Lore gives more information than planting a lower level. And planting more Lores gives more information than planting fewer Lores.
But do NOT expect to plant "Forge 2", and have all your detective and constables have Forge 2 on the next turn.
You will literally be planting an obscure set of instructions on how to practice ancient magic... in a crime scene that just blew up.
Planting a Lore can possibly be your first hoofstep towards introducing the Lores to the Bureau. But the thing about first steps is that they are still far from the end result, and that they generally require more steps to be taken.

Anyways, that is all for now. Voting is open, and I think you all have enough information to make educated decisions. So, people ask for it, I won't close the voting and extend another moratorium.

Good night everyone!

 

[Sveta08]

Mhmm.
Shouldst people not take up arms and armor and permit leaving information on the Wendigos, that would be my first priority.
Past that, we have Moth Lore.
Beyond that, Knock Lore. Or Worms. Both fit this priority to me.

But all else past that, I am more or less ambivalent on. And the more that is introduced, the less likely any one bit is focused on. The more that is introduced, the more variables that can run wild.
Three, four pieces at most I would recommend. And... the one piece of caution I would advise.

Do not let it be known worms possessed Luna. Not here. Not now.
That is the fastest way to draw Celestia's Attention. Something I don't think we can withstand yet. Speak of worms yes. But not of Luna. Draw not the Sun's Gaze.

 

[Sintonir]

Ok, so... After reading the arguments the caveats of evidence planting should be a bit like this:
1) Stay away from planting Lantern. Knock also seems a bit dangerous. We don't want Celestia learning more... For now.
2) Worms. They are dangerous, and they are the reason this old form of magic is needed in the first place. Maybe mention they are the reason for the Nightmare Moon?
3)Actually trying to obscure things seems counterproductive, the DC is already at the "impossible to a Mortal" level
4)Level 0 in all Lores seems OK?
5)Rituals seem high-risk high-reward option. Ability to do a Forge Redemption officially would be great. But giving that knowledge to Eclipse seems very risky.
Now I'll think of how to change my vote to reflect these points.

 

[BritBiscuit]

Well if the Worms and the Possession of Luna are two different things then I shall adjust my vote/plan then.

[X] Plan Insurance for the Future (Not a bad sister edition)
-[X] A very vague treatise about the Mansus, and the Lores. (This will have no inherent "Lore level", but attempt to point your investigation towards the existence of the Lores)
-[X] Reveal the Worms and the threat they pose to everyone.
-[X] Reveal the possession of Luna and the creation of Nightmare Moon.

Do not let it be known worms possessed Luna. Not here. Not now.
That is the fastest way to draw Celestia's Attention. Something I don't think we can withstand yet. Speak of worms yes. But not of Luna. Draw not the Sun's Gaze.

Click to shrink...

I see where you are coming from but to be honest the way I see it, it might be best to draw her attention now and not later.
Right now we know that she is around Lantern 0/1 and cannot currently detect our Lore levels (especially due to our current injured state removing them) and it is likely inevitable that her attention will be drawn at some point, so I believe that there may be benefits to engineering an encounter now to pass on info that would possibly improve Celestia's mental state/fight against Daybreaker as if she is informed of Nightmare Moon being enemy action rather than her neglect then that is a 1000 year old trauma that might be healed, also it would show progress on the whole persecute the attackers of Luna thing by finding a destroyed base of the Cult. A risk I do see is that she might not even believe the words of anything found in an exploded cult base but hopefully the details in whatever document recounting the dream has enough personal information to make her believe.

Now I will admit that there are risks but I feel it is worth a shot.

TLDR: it might be beneficial to do an encounter whilst Celestia is not leveled to make her happier before the harder later ones.

 

[Pittauro]

Hmm, wouldn't they be better for covering bases?

Narratively servants have numbers and Jade has lantern eyes for book searching. It doesn't really play to Rich's strengths.

Then again we want lots of books. At least 4 level 3 heart books. So maybe we should send two search groups. We have the bits for the books in our loot probably.

Click to shrink...

Actually we only need 2 heart books. We can cover two scraps with an heart influence if necessary.

Still keep in mind that

1)filthy rich is a merchant. He might have contacts that can get us ancient books.

2) we have no certainty we'll find the ROGHT books.

We literally only can use expedition books, LVL 3 heart books, and LVL 4 "everything but SH". But there's 10 categories of books of multiple levels, we might very well find nothing of use

 

[Shaper47]

[X] Plan Insurance for the Future (Not a bad sister edition)
-[X] A very vague treatise about the Mansus, and the Lores. (This will have no inherent "Lore level", but attempt to point your investigation towards the existence of the Lores)
-[X] Reveal the Worms and the threat they pose to everyone.
-[X] Reveal the possession of Luna and the creation of Nightmare Moon.

[X] Nothing. (You did not plant any evidence. Better safe than sorry.)

[X] A very vague treatise about the Mansus, and the Lores. (This will have no inherent "Lore level", but attempt to point your investigation towards the existence of the Lores)

[X] Plan Dream Warning
-[X] You planted a cache of false information, meant to throw your investigations off any trails they might pick up. (Attempt to make the investigator's job more difficult, on all fronts)
-[X] (WRITE-IN) The Worms and their infestation of the Dreamlands

[X] Plan: Overview with a warning
-[X] A very vague treatise about the Mansus, and the Lores. (This will have no inherent "Lore level", but attempt to point your investigation towards the existence of the Lores)
-[X] (WRITE-IN) The Worms and their infestation of the Dreamlands

[X] Plan Other Velvet

 

[Sintonir]

[X] Plan Insurance for the Future (Not a bad sister edition)

[X] Plan: Overview with a warning

[X] Plan: Reforging and Warning


I think these options are the best.
"Nothing" just doesn't use the opportunity we got, and I really want at least some level of warning about Worms.

 

[Sveta08]

I see where you are coming from but to be honest the way I see it, it might be best to draw her attention now and not later.
Right now we know that she is around Lantern 0/1 and cannot currently detect our Lore levels (especially due to our current injured state removing them) and it is likely inevitable that her attention will be drawn at some point, so I believe that there may be benefits to engineering an encounter now to pass on info that would possibly improve Celestia's mental state/fight against Daybreaker as if she is informed of Nightmare Moon being enemy action rather than her neglect then that is a 1000 year old trauma that might be healed, also it would show progress on the whole persecute the attackers of Luna thing by finding a destroyed base of the Cult. A risk I do see is that she might not even believe the words of anything found in an exploded cult base but hopefully the details in whatever document recounting the dream has enough personal information to make her believe.

Now I will admit that there are risks but I feel it is worth a shot.

Click to shrink...

For getting Celestia to be more oooookayish with lore, and with what happened with Luna? Agreed!

But, that bit of info would also make finding out absolutely everything possible about the place Priority number 1.2 for Celestia (1 Ever and always being Luna).
And as we didn't get Velvet's manuscripts out of there? Weeeeeell...

 

[Shaper47]

Actually we only need 2 heart books. We can cover two scraps with an heart influence if necessary.

Click to shrink...

True but I really prefer to save that for level 4 scraps. It's just so much more efficient.

Besides we want to time the heart influence with the Ruined Church expedition.

1)filthy rich is a merchant. He might have contacts that can get us ancient books.

Click to shrink...

Seems more like an artifact search deal to be honest.

2) we have no certainty we'll find the ROGHT books.

Click to shrink...

Ponyville has heart and forge books which are what we need.

 

[Talon Tiger Dino]

I am against speaking of the Worms, for that would encourage ponies to try and poke them and fight them and that's how you get Worm Hosts and there goes the History. I also don't want to say that the Worms possessed Luna because that would encourage Celestia to try and poke them and fight them and that's how you get an Alicorn Worm Host and there goes the History. Leave that shit for later, when everyone is a little more competent, a little more learned. Besides, worse comes to worse, and Velvet dies? Selene knows of the Worms. The knowledge already does not die with us. Now get these gits a ritual to fix Shining's Horn already.

Alternatively, a vague introduction to all of the Lores, since that lets things stay flexible.

 

[LieutenantSpirit]

Actually, I think we're overthinking this. It's probably better to keep things simple when it comes to planting evidence.

[X] Nothing. (You did not plant any evidence. Better safe than sorry.)
[X] A very vague treatise about the Mansus, and the Lores. (This will have no inherent "Lore level", but attempt to point your investigation towards the existence of the Lores)

The vague treatise would be best as we can't forget the Bureau also has the rest of the cult to pick through. Grail is undoubtedly going to be discovered, followed by maybe Edge, but since we're already the head of the Lunar Bureau, we should be able to "nudge" them toward specific Lores in the future.

Just have to keep our Moth up. If we can hide from Celestia, we can hide from normal ponies, no matter how perceptive they may be.

 

[Talon Tiger Dino]

[X] A very vague treatise about the Mansus, and the Lores. (This will have no inherent "Lore level", but attempt to point your investigation towards the existence of the Lores)

 

[Earth-Destroyer]

Leaving evidence about the Worm is a fucking terrible idea. That just asking the researcher to wind up as Worm hosts. Reminder you need something like Edge 6 plus a powerful Edge weapon to fight a normal basic Worm

 

[Shaper47]

Leaving evidence about the Worm is a fucking terrible idea. That just asking the researcher to wind up as Worm hosts. Reminder you need something like Edge 6 plus a powerful Edge weapon to fight a normal basic Worm

Click to shrink...

I'm pretty sure the theory is it's a warning so they don't run into the worms accidentally.

Which is a real risk given how investigation of the Dreamlands is a logical goal of theirs.

 

[Talon Tiger Dino]

I'm pretty sure the theory is it's a warning so they don't run into the worms accidentally.

Which is a real risk given how investigation of the Dreamlands is a logical goal of theirs.

Click to shrink...

How is investigating the Dreamlands a logical goal of the Bureau's?