Feudal Quest

kinglugia · Feb 19, 2014

I think researching how to manage Corruption will be a good project for us.

fitzgerald · Feb 19, 2014

ShaperV in post 405 I was asking how hard it is for mages to work together.

That and if fire/light can be combod with earth to ease corruption

Arkeus · Feb 19, 2014

drake_azathoth said:
What's TMU?

TMU- Or Tales of MU- is a webserial (think Worm) that is in this strange place where there is enough explicit porn that you can't say it's not porn, but not enough porn to read it because of the porn. It has some truly excellent backstory, magical systems and characterization, but has a slooooow paced story with a very erratic plot (you can go forever without any plot, or at least forever without touching a particular plot point). It's a "in school" setting, where the main character (Mackenzie Blaise) is in her second year. The first year began with a literally "we see every single seconds of what's happening to the main character", but when it jumped to the second year after a big timeskip it began to go faster, time-wise.

Warning: you aren't going to share all the fetishes of the author, and you are not supposed to like every chapters either. It's long as heck, too. OTOH, if you aren't bothered by what's going on the characterization, world-building and classes make that webserial very definitely worth reading.

EDIT: Sorry for the Off-Topic.

Anyone is willing to make a solid plan for what's dominic is going to do? i am having a hard time thinking about it.

ShaperV · Feb 19, 2014

fitzgerald said:
ShaperV in post 405 I was asking how hard it is for mages to work together.

That and if fire/light can be combod with earth to ease corruption

Wizards and witches can combine their abilities using ritual magic, but sorcerers usually can't. Sorcery is too much of an internal power for group casting, although there might be some way around that if you put enough work into it.

Kat has tried combining fire with earth before, but it just gives her hot rocks. Dita's Light sorcery seems like it might be good for purification, but she'd need to spend an action researching that to figure out what she can do with it.

Arkeus said:
EDIT: Sorry for the Off-Topic.

Not a problem. Digressions are fine as long as they don't derail the thread.

Graig · Feb 19, 2014

Arkeus said:
Anyone is willing to make a solid plan for what's dominic is going to do? i am having a hard time thinking about it.

Here is my attempt at a a plan. Next turn we should probably recruit more soldiers and attack the beastmen. Unfortunately we don't have enough money to recruit more than some archers this turn and the ranger training is not yet finished so we can't attack this turn.

Dominic
[X] Visit Baroness Lala.
[X] Ride the border.
[X] Train Diplomacy. (we choose to focus on Charm so this should probably be our most important skill)

Sir Bialis
[X]Recruit archers

Jaroslaw
[X]Train Rangers (Skill)

Dita
[X] Training: Light Sorcery Level (4/4)
[X] Research a way to use light magic to purify corruption.

Traian
[X] Gather the household tax.

Men at arms
[X] 12 of them Guard Traian and 4 of them accompany Dominic.

Archers
[X]Garrison

Rangers
[X]Be trained

Katiana
[X] Start repairing the damaged keep.

Staff
[X] Assist Katiana.

Minor Actions
[X] Collect some easy information about Atalaya.
[X] Ask Katiana for some birth control magic.

staplesdex2 · Feb 19, 2014

Another Minor Action:
[X] Romance Katiana (to become another mistress)

Mostly wanted to see Dominic's Charm working. He did get a reputation in handling women.

fitzgerald · Feb 20, 2014

GRAIG we are scheduled to walk the border with Eitz this turn.

Graig · Feb 20, 2014

fitzgerald said:
GRAIG we are scheduled to walk the border with Eitz this turn.

Ok, I changed one action from training to ride the border.

ShaperV · Feb 20, 2014

So we have two plans proposed, with only one vote each? Looks like I'll have to wait another day for the next update.

staplesdex2 said:
Another Minor Action:
[X] Romance Katiana (to become another mistress)

Mostly wanted to see Dominic's Charm working. He did get a reputation in handling women.

We had about five or six people vote to keep the relationship professional, so you'll need several votes to get Dominic to change his mind. Although each vote in that direction does weaken his resistance if Kat decides to take a shot at seducing him...

drake_azathoth · Feb 20, 2014

[X] Plan Graig.

megrisvernin · Feb 20, 2014

[X] Keep Things Professional
Let's see how riding the border goes. If it appears that there isn't a chance for a Romance then, I don't mind switching.

Thomasfoolery · Feb 20, 2014

If people want I can swap out Dita's woodscraft training with purification training, but I really think dropping healing is a poor idea, diplomacy training will affect nothing for the next 4 turns while healing could possibly be saving our troops lives next turn, and since we don't need more archers this turn (in fact I don't think our next recruits should be archers at all) I really don't agree with that either.

Also consider the time sensitive nature of the task I put Traian on. If we don't do it now most of the licenses for the year will have already been bought and in the future we're not guaranteed to be in the area when we need to stop by and see if things are going well, which could easily result in a wasted action for him.

Graig · Feb 20, 2014

Thomasfoolery said:
If people want I can swap out Dita's woodscraft training with purification training, but I really think dropping healing is a poor idea, and since we don't need more archers this turn (in fact I don't think our next recruits should be archers at all) I really don't agree with that either, considering the time sensitive nature of the task I put Traian on.

We are probably going to be using most of our actions on recruiting soldiers and attacking the beastmen next turn. Having as many soldiers as we can get when we do attack is important. Also we can't afford to get spearmen this turn.

Arkeus · Feb 20, 2014

Graig said:
We are probably going to be using most of our actions on recruiting soldiers and attacking the beastmen next turn. Having as many soldiers as we can get when we do attack is important. Also we can't afford to get spearmen this turn.

Why can't we?
And the main reason i didn't vote for yours is that i am against learning Diplomacy right now, and i am unsure about the other things.

Graig · Feb 20, 2014

Arkeus said:
Why can't we?
And the main reason i didn't vote for yours is that i am against learning Diplomacy right now, and i am unsure about the other things.

Because we only have 85 SP left and we have an upkeep cost of 40 SP. Spearmen cost 80 SP.

What do you want to do instead of training Diplomacy? Since we did choose Charm, Diplomacy will be a very important skill for us in the long term and we should improve it whenever we don't have anything better to do.

Thomasfoolery · Feb 20, 2014

Graig said:
We are probably going to be using most of our actions on recruiting soldiers and attacking the beastmen next turn. Having as many soldiers as we can get when we do attack is important. Also we can't afford to get spearmen this turn.

We're getting our tax income this month, I'm not sure whether or not we can plan expenses using that source of income or not so you may be right.

Either way I think we should take out the bandits next month, not the beastmen, also in general I feel that a unit of spearmen to round out our force will be a better choice facing the beastmen than more archers.

Graig said:
Because we only have 85 SP left and we have an upkeep cost of 40 SP. Spearmen cost 80 SP.

What do you want to do instead of training Diplomacy? Since we did choose Charm, Diplomacy will be a very important skill for us in the long term and we should improve it whenever we don't have anything better to do.

Why do you feel we have nothing better to do? I don't understand why you don't feel the ability to heal ourselves/our units is useful, especially if you want to attack the beastmen soon.

Graig · Feb 20, 2014

Thomasfoolery said:
We're getting our tax income this month, I'm not sure whether or not we can plan expenses using that source of income or not so you may be right.

Either way I think we should take out the bandits next month, not the beastmen, also in general I feel that a unit of spearmen to round out our force will be a better choice facing the beastmen than more archers.

The beastmen are a far more urgent problem. We were also told that there were more of them than what we initially thought.

We should probably recruit something like 4 units of spearmen next turn before attacking.

Thomasfoolery · Feb 20, 2014

Graig said:
The beastmen are a far more urgent problem. We were also told that there were more of them than what we initially thought.

I think the bandits are likely a much more manageable opponent that we can take on with our rangers next turn, while I feel we should build up more to handle the beastmen.

We should probably recruit something like 4 units of spearmen next turn before attacking.

Those spearmen wouldn't be able to join the assault that turn, and it would tie up the actions of most of the people we'd need for actually fighting the beastmen, so doing recruiting like that is kind of incompatible with attacking next turn.

Arkeus · Feb 20, 2014

Graig said:
Because we only have 85 SP left and we have an upkeep cost of 40 SP. Spearmen cost 80 SP.

As said, we are getting our money this action- unsure if we are going to be able to use it to get the spearmen now, but it's quite possible.

What do you want to do instead of training Diplomacy? Since we did choose Charm, Diplomacy will be a very important skill for us in the long term and we should improve it whenever we don't have anything better to do.

Yes, no. Having more charm now means we don't quite need to build Diplomacy right now- we WILL get more diplomacy/etc, but it's not needed right now and is definitely the main thing we should be training for all the time (though it is something we should be training every so often).

I am unsure what i want to do hence why i haven't posted yet, but things like getting new skills with fire (too bad we probably don't have a way to test 'make fire that purify ghosts') or Force are probably more important for example.

Graig · Feb 20, 2014

Thomasfoolery said:
I think the bandits are likely a much more manageable opponent that we can take on with our rangers next turn, while I feel we should build up more to handle the beastmen.

Those spearmen wouldn't be able to join the assault that turn, and it would tie up the actions of most of the people we'd need for actually fighting the beastmen, so doing recruiting like that is kind of incompatible with attacking next turn.

If it is impossible to recruit and attack in the same turn then we would have to attack the next turn instead (and either attack the bandits instead or recruit even more soldiers). Either way reqruiting archers this turn will allow us to have more soldiers when we attack.

Arkeus said:
As said, we are getting our money this action- unsure if we are going to be able to use it to get the spearmen now, but it's quite possible.
Yes, no. Having more charm now means we don't quite need to build Diplomacy right now- we WILL get more diplomacy/etc, but it's not needed right now and is definitely the main thing we should be training for all the time (though it is something we should be training every so often).

I am unsure what i want to do hence why i haven't posted yet, but things like getting new skills with fire (too bad we probably don't have a way to test 'make fire that purify ghosts') or Force are probably more important for example.

I doubt that we can use money like that but if the GM tells us that we can, I would be ok with changing them to spearmen.

We will not benefit right now from training Diplomacy anyway (you do not get any benefit from partial progress to the next level). There will be a point when further levels become impossible or very expensive but until then we should probably spend most of our training time on Diplomacy.

We only have level 1 in fire and force so any effect we research is going to be rather unimpressive anyway. It would probably be better to have Katiana research such a spell instead (she also only has level 1 but her actions are not as valuable and she has Soul 4).

Arkeus · Feb 20, 2014

Graig said:
We will not benefit right now from training Diplomacy anyway (you do not get any benefit from partial progress to the next level). There will be a point when further levels become impossible or very expensive but until then we should probably spend most of our training time on Diplomacy.

No we shouldn't- Having Charm 4 means we have more than enough currently, and things like diplomacy come to a point where you get limited return if you are already going to win the roll checks.

Learning new spells/skills that help us do new things, however, are different.

We only have level 1 in fire and force so any effect we research is going to be rather unimpressive anyway. It would probably be better to have Katiana research such a spell instead (she also only has level 1 but her actions are not as valuable and she has Soul 4).

Except Kat also has Earth 3, meaning that either she is more useful doing more earth stuff (and learning more earth spells) or Wizardry stuff (as we dont know it, though she needs her grimoire first). Fire is redudant for her, though it might become useful when we want duplication of skills, or maybe we can get bonus to training if we train/research spells together.

Thomasfoolery · Feb 20, 2014

Graig said:
snip

Honestly your priorities seem very off to me, you say you want to focus on fighting the beastmen but then train a skill that has no importance in that area over one that does. Then go on to ignore a time sensitive choice for a choice that can easily be done next turn. As you have to consider, there's a limit to the amount of troops we can afford to sustain and retain the ability do anything else in a year, 4 more units, which we could recruit in one turn, abrogating the need to recruit archers this turn, is near that limit.

Though if you are really worried about raising and maintaining a very large numbers of troops, then increasing our long-term income, which is what I've sent Traian out to do would help with exactly that.

Anyway I've switched over Dita's training to attempting to learn about purification as that did seem like a good idea.

Graig · Feb 20, 2014

Arkeus said:
No we shouldn't- Having Charm 4 means we have more than enough currently, and things like diplomacy come to a point where you get limited return if you are already going to win the roll checks.

Why do you think that there are just such binary outcomes from Diplomacy rolls? Also higher skill just means that we can succeed at more difficult diplomatic tasks. More sword skill is always valuable so why would that not also be the case for Diplomacy?

If further improvements to our social ability really becomes almost useless at some point, then choosing Charm would have been an incredibly bad decision.

Learning new spells/skills that help us do new things, however, are different.
Except Kat also has Earth 3, meaning that either she is more useful doing more earth stuff (and learning more earth spells) or Wizardry stuff (as we dont know it, though she needs her grimoire first). Fire is redudant for her, though it might become useful when we want duplication of skills, or maybe we can get bonus to training if we train/research spells together.

Overall our character have far better stats and skills than Kat. Our actions are more valuable than hers. If even her actions are too valuable to research such a spell, then there is no way that doing so would be worth Dominic's time.

Thomasfoolery said:
Honestly your priorities seem very off to me, you say you want to focus on fighting the beastmen but then train a skill that has no importance in that area over one that does. Then go on to ignore a time sensitive choice for a choice that can easily be done next turn. As you have to consider, there's a limit to the amount of troops we can afford to sustain and retain the ability do anything else in a year, 4 more units, which we could recruit in one turn, is near that limit. Though if you are really worried about raising very large numbers of troops, then increasing our long-term income, which is what I've sent Traian out to do would help with exactly that.

Yes we would be close to our limit after recruiting 4 units but I did not suggest that we recruit many more than that (I just said that we could recruit a few more or attack the bandits instead).

Training Diplomacy does not affect how soon we can attack the beastmen.

Thomasfoolery · Feb 20, 2014

Graig said:
Yes we would be close to our limit after recruiting 4 units but I did not suggest that we recruit many more than that (I just said that we could recruit a few more or attack the bandits instead).

Training Diplomacy does not affect how soon we can attack the beastmen.

I don't think we should recruit anymore than 4 more units, that's already maintaining over one-hundred men. A rather substantial force considering our lands are rather small, and that since we have the actions to gather that force in a single turn if we wanted to.

Therefore there is no need to recruit the archers this turn as we're discarding a valuable action for no gain. Since the additional archers aren't going to be useful next turn, while conversely this is the absolute best time for Traian to investigate the shipping, is my point.

Yes I know, what I've been saying is diplomacy training does absolutely nothing for us currently while healing could save our lives...

Graig · Feb 20, 2014

Thomasfoolery said:
I don't think we should recruit anymore than 4 more units, that's already maintaining over one-hundred men. A rather substantial force considering our lands are rather small, and that since we have the actions to gather that force in a single turn if we wanted to. There's no need to recruit the archers this turn as we're discarding a valuable action for no gain since the archers aren't going to be useful next turn while this is the absolute best time for Traian to investigate the shipping is my whole point.

Yes I know, what I've been saying is diplomacy training does absolutely nothing for us currently while healing could save our lives...

We would be attacking the beastmen the next turn so depending on how many of them we expect there to be it might make sense to recruit more. However attacking the bandits instead could also be a good decision.

It is uncertain if we want to be seen perfoming magic ourselves. We did not choose Soul so we are not going to be focusing on our own magic. It is true that good healing could be very valuable if us or an important NPC gets hurt. However as I understand it healing magic is difficult in this setting so I don't expect that we will be that good at it before attacking the beastmen anyway.

Arkeus · Feb 20, 2014

Graig said:
It is uncertain if we want to be seen perfoming magic ourselves. We did not choose Soul so we are not going to be focusing on our own magic

We'll get a second Stat point 'soonish' (our untapped potential was 2 points) so we can definitely still focus on magic without any long term problem (and short term another soul point doesn't matter as much).

It is true that good healing could be very valuable if us or an important NPC gets hurt. However as I understand it healing magic is difficult in this setting so I don't expect that we will be that good at it before attacking the beastmen anyway.

Yes, i do not expect Healing to be possible or effective fast, though simply the ability to detect our bad someone is and 'giving strength' could save lives.

Graig · Feb 20, 2014

Arkeus said:
We'll get a second Stat point 'soonish' (our untapped potential was 2 points) so we can definitely still focus on magic without any long term problem (and short term another soul point doesn't matter as much).

There is very little synergy between Soul and Charm. I did not care much about whether we got Charm or Soul but I am very opposed to such a split. If we wanted Soul then we should have put both our points into it. Now the obious choice should be to put both our points into Charm. Mind might be ok since there are some synergy there but we should definately not put it in Soul or Body.

There are good reasons why such stat splits are a very bad ideas in most games.

Yes, i do not expect Healing to be possible or effective fast, though simply the ability to detect our bad someone is and 'giving strength' could save lives.

We can already detect how bad someone is.

Arkeus · Feb 20, 2014

Graig said:
There is very little synergy between Soul and Charm. I did not care much about whether we got Charm or Soul but I am very opposed to such a split. If we wanted Soul then we should have put both our points into it. Now the obious choice should be to put both our points into Charm. Mind might be ok since there are some synergy there but we should definately not put it in Soul or Body.

Annnd i disagree- we have just seen very obvious examples of synergy between Soul and Charm, and even beyond it it's obvious that having both is needed if we want any kind of mage.

There are good reasons why such stat splits are a very bad ideas in most games.

Bad GM?

We can already detect how bad someone is.

Yup, though we can't give force to people, nor can we detect how bad people are in range, etc. The point is, there are a stupid numbers of small-sclae powers we can research that will help immediately.

Graig · Feb 20, 2014

Arkeus said:
Annnd i disagree- we have just seen very obvious examples of synergy between Soul and Charm, and even beyond it it's obvious that having both is needed if we want any kind of mage.

I don't remember doing anything that we could not have done at Soul 2 or perhaps even Soul 1.

Bad GM?

No. Not ignoring the benefits of specialization is not being a bad GM.

Yup, though we can't give force to people, nor can we detect how bad people are in range, etc. The point is, there are a stupid numbers of small-sclae powers we can research that will help immediately.

Yes and there will also be situations where we desperately need any short time benefit we can get (for example if one of our neighbors had invaded us). That is not currently the case and it is a good time to train for long term benefits.

drake_azathoth · Feb 20, 2014

Graig said:
There is very little synergy between Soul and Charm. I did not care much about whether we got Charm or Soul but I am very opposed to such a split. If we wanted Soul then we should have put both our points into it. Now the obious choice should be to put both our points into Charm. Mind might be ok since there are some synergy there but we should definately not put it in Soul or Body.

I'm very dubious about this rationale. Yes, specialization has it's benefits. On the other hand, versatility has benefits as well, and things get more complicated when you are talking about someone already absurdly talented like the PC. There are only so many situations where Charm is applicable, and while in some games we would have an opportunity to leverage everything to test our Charm or outsource to NPCs, I think this game won't be so convenient.

Also? We know a raw score of 3 such as the PC has for everything is already impressive. Right on the first page it says 'stats of 4 or more are very rare', and our magic is already predetermined as Flesh Sorcery aimed at increasing our Body in various ways. Right now, without upping our Body to 4, chances are we could take the veteran knight that serves us nine times out of ten using our magic. If our magic had more to do with Charm or Enchantment, your arguments on specialization would have more merit, but we're ALREADY diversified. I think it'd be wiser to increase Soul or (unlikely) Body or Mind with our last unspent point and be either generally awesome at almost everything or just an insanely powerful fighter.

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