General World of Darkness Discussion Thread QQ Edition

[NoFunposter]

I do agree in liking the lupus

Red Talons: Humans are shit

Lupus wolf from the zoo: My zookeeper was nice and only screamed a bit when I became a human

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>Zookeeper keeps accidentally helping animals that turn out to be their version of Lupus.
>Helps a baby Crow recover from a broken wing, goth neighbour moves next door a couple of years later. Local crows congregate near his house.
>Rehabilitates a bear cub to be released back into the wild. It now keeps coming back to sleep on his porch.
>Does a tour of the conservation efforts in Africa, saves a bunch of local animals from poachers. Comes home and has two more neighbours that argue a lot move in a few weeks later.

Spoiler

>Ever since he gave that speech about the importance of roaches to the urban ecology as part of a rally to stop Pentex from mass fumigating the sewers, he has had zero pest problems. (Depressed Samsa girl, very weak to praise.)
>His life is literally just "Crane's return of a Favour" on repeat.
>Might have been slightly blessed by Gaia through their conservation efforts actually stymieing Pentex's plans in a meaningful way.
>This of course means the Garou will probably try to murder him because fucking wolves.

 

[junsa]

>Zookeeper keeps accidentally helping animals that turn out to be their version of Lupus.
>Helps a baby Crow recover from a broken wing, goth neighbour moves next door a couple of years later. Local crows congregate near his house.
>Rehabilitates a bear cub to be released back into the wild. It now keeps coming back to sleep on his porch.
>Does a tour of the conservation efforts in Africa, saves a bunch of local animals from poachers. Comes home and has two more neighbours that argue a lot move in a few weeks later.

Spoiler

>Ever since he gave that speech about the importance of roaches to the urban ecology as part of a rally to stop Pentex from mass fumigating the sewers, he has had zero pest problems. (Depressed Samsa girl, very weak to praise.)
>His life is literally just "Crane's return of a Favour" on repeat.
>Might have been slightly blessed by Gaia through their conservation efforts actually stymieing Pentex's plans in a meaningful way.
>This of course means the Garou will probably try to murder him because fucking wolves.

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I hate so much that you are completely right about that in all honesty you would think that the wolves that turn into humans would be like their own special group or something and would have been like the ones that didn't fight against their cousins or to the stupid genocide

 

[Sol Mark-1]

I wonder how furious is Paradox with the fiasco of Bloodlines 2, since that game was the reason they bought White Wolf?

 

[NoFunposter]

I hate so much that you are completely right about that in all honesty you would think that the wolves that turn into humans would be like their own special group or something and would have been like the ones that didn't fight against their cousins or to the stupid genocide

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It's a culture deep rot. Remove a wolf from Garou culture and they'd probably develop braincells and thoughts of their own.

I blame their weird society.
Because wolves form packs they become very loyal to their group, but this leads to an extreme inclination to forming "Out-groups" and an "Us vs Them" mentality and they miss the bigger picture by focusing entirely on what benefits their group.

Garou aren't being eco-warriors because they're loyal to nature or the health of the world. They're fighting for the natural order because they believe that it's the state where they are the ones on top, nothing more.

And if anything comes along that challenges that worldview or collapses their narrative by revealing how self-serving and egocentric their actual reasons for fighting are, they do their utmost to snuff it out.

They don't hate humanity because they're a threat to the world, they hate humanity because they think dominating the world and repainting it in their colours is the garou birthright and has been stolen from them.

 

[shadowdice]

The Addams Family in Gotham skits on YouTube made me think of that but a bunch of WoD residents

Dick: How was your night Damian?

Damian: I met a Raven also a Raven

Dick:…Why did you repeat yourself?

Damian: I met a raven that can become a person and a girl who is a dhampir born with a symbol on her head that marks her as part of an ancient vampire prophecy who is hunted by an infernalist cult her dead mother was part of but was raised by crime fighting vampires

Dick: That does sound like a Raven

Bruce sitting across from WoD Dracula comparing notes on what his world's Dracula is like with debates on what may or may not have happened

If using my old L.A Hound story

Bruce: So your wife who is now a ghost had taken a traumatized child and put him through tests to be able to take care of himself before making him like her to carry on her legacy and he went around punishing criminals and making a group of other vampires like that and adopting people as family

Dracula: it is part of a long lineage of adoptions, which includes his blood family it turns out due to some ancestors that became vampires

Bruce: And you also have an ancient immortal who started the Assassins in your universe

Dracula: Yes

Bruce: Then you have a Ras Al Ghul
And league of assassins

Dracula: Well they are the Web of Knives, Assamites, and a dozen other names

 

[Wwind]

nice new posts.

…ok…..tbf, that was an admittedly WEIRD AF part of the og games
"earth mommy demands you fuck actual animals"
Like….wtf…..

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And? do distinguish that Gaia garou worship is not human god or even from the high umbra.
Just look at natural world and be glad she kept it tame.
alternatively look at IRL Gaia historical religion and be even more glad Black Furies don't have rituals where they crush men sexual organs (still attached of course) between two boulders.

All the while ignoring the Red Talons just sitting there, and playable. The Red Talons, the one Tribe whose identity revolves around hating humans. The Red Talons, the one Tribe in the modern setting that's arguably still outright genocidal. Fucking genius that.

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The Red talons who looked at risk of corruption, went "nuhuh" and invented special rituals to safely eat human meat anyway.

But an actual wolf? They've got nothing.

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Good observation. I also do notice that Werewolves are as divorced from wolves as they are form humans.

Lupus wolf from the zoo: My zookeeper was nice and only screamed a bit when I became a human

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There is a canon character (Red Talon tribebook?) which is exactly this. A domesticated wolf that turned.

two more neighbours that argue a lot move in a few weeks later.

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Ajaba and Bastet?... kudos for not killing each other. But one of them may have a... surprise in store. XD

he has had zero pest problems. (Depressed Samsa girl, very weak to praise.)

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Samsa don't get enough praise and attention. One thing keeping them from that would be lack of gift list. Was it too much to develop one like with Yeren? Right now the best option would be Homid/Glass Walker and maybe Bone Gnawers.

>His life is literally just "Crane's return of a Favour" on repeat.

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You slap Destiny 4 on that guy and it should work out.

Garou aren't being eco-warriors because they're loyal to nature or the health of the world. They're fighting for the natural order because they believe that it's the state where they are the ones on top, nothing more.

And if anything comes along that challenges that worldview or collapses their narrative by revealing how self-serving and egocentric their actual reasons for fighting are, they do their utmost to snuff it out.

They don't hate humanity because they're a threat to the world, they hate humanity because they think dominating the world and repainting it in their colours is the garou birthright and has been stolen from them.

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Eeehhh... sorta? but also completely wrong. You have to take into account that WoD is not IRL and Werewolves are not humans. You are trying to paste modern and very narrow logic on beings that are not humans and do not even operate within same universe.

They are fighting for the world because that is literally what they were made for by their god. Garou were MADE by Gaia to wage eternal war on her behalf (sort alike Hunter-Killer cells of a planet). Further reinforced by their truly fanatical faith. Because they KNOW they are right. Ancestors and Gods do reach out to them directly. As for being on top - they would agree. At least they would not and do not consider humans equal or a threat as such.

If that was the case, they would have never stopped Impergium you realize? Which they did basically out of pity, not some sort of "humanity fuck yeah" moment. Now, of course Garou like everyone else do want more power and prestige. But, for a note, you do not get any credit in Garou society for defeating human warriors, for being a human leader/king, or for being rich. A piss poor Bone Gnawer can easily outrank a billionaire glass walker (nothin' said about kinfolk or rich human). Bone Gnawers in general are pretty much voluntarily poor and powerless for basically religious reasons.

Most of Garou don't hate humanity per-se (Not counting Red Talons that is). In WoD tho, the whole of humanity and civilization are no more than tools and pawns of cosmic forces.
Civilization is the physical expression of the Weaver (god of order) not just human effort. And wyrm is master at infiltrating and subverting it. You also forget that they can empirically see the effects of spreading civilization, while humans are spiritually blind and can not see or feel the effects new construction sites and pollution are actually having.
Now, they did war on other changing breeds. But that was part religious schism and part beings tailor-made for war not having much of anything to fight at the time.

 

[doll]

I feel like everything people are saying about V5 vs. VtM applies to CofD vs. nWoD, except that nWoD had good mechanics as well as good writing. WtF2 I'm not a fan of 100% of but is more different-but-equal outside of some baseline improvements and DtD is fun, but they absolutely destroyed the main setting (MtAw/CtL/mortal) and VtR, and I'm not a fan of Beast*.

*Geryo aren't a bad addition.

It's a culture deep rot. Remove a wolf from Garou culture and they'd probably develop braincells and thoughts of their own.

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The culture is forced on them by the spirits. If you don't join the tribes then you just passively become wyrmish until you become a mindless monster, staying a ronin longterm is basically not really viable unless the Wyld spirits still like you (and they're the ones encouraging wolves to be so destructive and shortsighted, for the most part - ancestors included). Keep in mind that Honor rules are based on how spirits react to you, so e.g. the mistreatment of kinfolk is basically something that spirits are responsible for; spirits not only endorse and condone the actions of the garou, but often punish them for not throwing everything away in suicidal fights or trampling innocents in the name of some tribal hierarchy.

There exist some tiny minority of BSDs that can be perfectly normal because the Wyrm has attendant spirits who absolutely do not care what you do, good or evil, while still shielding you from the environment corruption that ronin are vulnerable to. W20 (book of the wyrm) even has mentions of how there's starting to be a cultural revolution amongst them since they're realized that confident, functional and happy kinfolk in high places in human society are more valuable, so while the hills-have-eyes torture-rape-camp stereotype of BSD kinfolk lives on in the pits run by BSDs that are just being dumb self-indulgent assholes and they're left alone in a do what thou wilt kind of way, the possibility of reasonable BSD literally extending a helping hand to rescue kinfolk from abusive homes (and thereby depriving gaia of kinfolk in the process) exists in the setting.

If you completely remove a wolf from the culture then they'll develop brain cancer because they need to be protected from the Triad, who are actively attacking the world. It's a pretty hopeless situation overall.

 

[Wwind]

The culture is forced on them by the spirits.

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not agreeing with everything. But the core concept that their culture operates differently from human one because they have literal, tangible gods is indeed correct.

There exist some tiny minority of BSDs that can be perfectly normal

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wouln't say "perfectly", but most BSDs you see in garou books are only part of the tribe. Not nearly the whole of it. Quite a few are mostly looking out for themselves and can even be said to be more rational then more standard garou. Which of course not in any way means "nicer".

W20 (book of the wyrm) even has mentions of how there's starting to be a cultural revolution amongst them since they're realized that confident, functional and happy kinfolk in high places in human society are more valuabl

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yeah, I also did like the changes introduced. Also apparently wyrm fanaticism is on the decline and now they instead exploring sort of a spiritual archeology and personal gain.
Though with kinfolk, the impression I was left with, the point was apparently humans (especially preganant) fare really poorly under... rougher treatment.

If you completely remove a wolf from the culture then they'll develop brain cancer because they need to be protected from the Triad, who are actively attacking the world. It's a pretty hopeless situation overall.

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In general, ALL changing breeds require their animal counterparts or suffer the consequences. Ironically, the only exception I can remember being Samsa.

 

[Repentant_Dragos]

DtD is fun

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I agree with this; I have an Integrator + Saboteur OC who wants to destroy the God-Machine First, make a new one, then merge with it.

 

[Gereh]

The core book talks about how to play the game over stuff like TikTok so yes

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I looked that up because I was kinda interested in seeing what the developers back in 2018 thought TikTok would be like but I couldn't find any mention of that. Did do changes to the core book at some point, maybe when they change Publishers?

Tell me the Devs actually read about Ennoia, Helen, Arkiel, the Valkyrie, the Tzmisce, the Lioness of Jerusalem, the Dream, actually looked at the Clan Exemplars like Lucita and Fatima and Victoria Ash, and the Tremere, and make sure to do so with a straight face.

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Wasn't Justin Achilli part of the team, because like him or not, he definitely knows his shit.

I wonder how furious is Paradox with the fiasco of Bloodlines 2, since that game was the reason they bought White Wolf?

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Pretty sure they knew that the game would perform well, like everyone could have told you that beforehand. Question is who will they put the blame on?
That said I wouldn't be surprised if we don't see any WOD games for the next years (beside cyoa or VNs) unless there for some reason is another studio that approaches PDX with an idea using the IP (basically a situation where PDX has no risk since they only get paid by someone so that they can use the IP)

I feel like everything people are saying about V5 vs. VtM applies to CofD vs. nWoD, except that nWoD had good mechanics as well as good writing

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From what I remember people did not like the CofD very localized approach and wanted a sort of "Meta-Lore", something bigger then just "city politics". So I would say that they made changes that people actually asked for (and yes that meet radical changing some part of the setting and not always for the best - yes I also miss the bloodlines and their unique power in VTR 2E). Meanwhile nobody asked for the changes in V5.

Also I wouldn't say that V5 has categorically bad mechanics, like there is pretty cool stuff in there (Hunger Dice and loresheets are stuff that always comes to my mind at being improvements). It's just what they have done with the mechanics that fucking sucks.

 

[Nervaqus987]

I do agree in liking the lupus

Red Talons: Humans are shit

Lupus wolf from the zoo: My zookeeper was nice and only screamed a bit when I became a human

Click to shrink...

I had a similar idea, only with a werelion.

One of the things I figured was she would like going back to the zoo and visiting her former pride. Either just as a "normal" visitor or popping back in the enclosure.


There's just something funny to me about the concept of a zoo animal turning into a Fera. Aside from the hilarious thought of scaring the fuck out of a zoo keeper and potentially getting them as a secret keeper type character, I just imagine the conversation between them and someone who like expects them to have come from some distant place.

"You told me you were from Chicago!"

"Yes, Brookfield Zoo. Born and raised."

 

[shadowdice]

I had a similar idea, only with a werelion.

One of the things I figured was she would like going back to the zoo and visiting her former pride. Either just as a "normal" visitor or popping back in the enclosure.


There's just something funny to me about the concept of a zoo animal turning into a Fera. Aside from the hilarious thought of scaring the fuck out of a zoo keeper and potentially getting them as a secret keeper type character, I just imagine the conversation between them and someone who like expects them to have come from some distant place.

"You told me you were from Chicago!"

"Yes, Brookfield Zoo. Born and raised."

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Chicago Gurahl: The goats curse has been Lifted from the Cubs

Years later

Elder Mage Billy Sainis returned from the Umbra: They kept my return from occurring for years but I am back. And my goat will enter the stands

 

[shadowdice]

I looked that up because I was kinda interested in seeing what the developers back in 2018 thought TikTok would be like but I couldn't find any mention of that. Did do changes to the core book at some point, maybe when they change Publishers?

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I looked it up

I had gotten a section of the Players handbook confused with the core book

Spoiler: unironically this

Modern VTM writers: You should dress up as your character and pretend to be them pretending to be a person in a film or show that is similar to them or sing a song or make a clip responding to someone else's clip

Edit

The Chinese room game does indeed have granny sex

With Phyre proclaiming the moves being used on the elderly Tremere woman were learned in cappadocia

I don't know if the writer realizes that the cappadocians looked like corpses (and some did fuck corpses)

And granny talks about Crowley. Which I'm also not sure if the writers know the clusterfuck which is Crowley in VTM. Though IRL stuff inspired by him would probably involve drugs and BDSM at the very least

 

[Wwind]

Was watching

Spoiler: this interesting vid on canines

View: https://youtu.be/U2OqhgvKj7k

Fun fact, wolves apparently hate coyotes and yet most wolves in US are now part coyotes...

Also reminded me. Shouldn't werewolves in WoD be more pressured from other changing breeds? Especially in the cities. It should be Nuvisha, Ratkin and Ananasi everywhere. Even if garou have presence form War of Rage, they should really be gitting pressured from these guys today. Because those 3 types specifically thrive in cities. Hell, even bears and gators are doing better then wolves.
Not to mention even vampires getting affected. Anansi are also blood drinkers and for some weird reason like to cosplay as vampires. While ratkin are downright poisonous for Vampires.

In CoD they actually did address it in some way. For one Forsaken are much less related to IRL wolves then Garou. For another there is text in parts about weretigers discussing how while tigers are facing extinction weretigers seem to be thriving and moving into towns and suburbs in numbers (relatively).