General World of Darkness Discussion Thread QQ Edition

[shadowdice]

Mostly because there is like 3 people active in this thread and at most 10-20 people who knows about WoD in the entire site.

I could answer it but didn't feel like it. Let me answer some because I feel bad now.


It wouldn't remove it in my opinion but when Awakening and the Ascension is literally road to the "Indestructible, Unchanging and Imperishable Truths of the World" most people leave behind their past.

Its basically seeing the glimpses of The Root.


It's not going to change much, even if you get more viewers and readers from it majority of the people will be from the Type Moon side.


That actually sounds like a normal behaviour to me

Though as a ST, seeing as one of the wings were on fire, I would had them roll for Rotschreck.

Now that's just plain stupid.

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Guy playing a Lasombra: I want to use Shroud of Night to cover everything in my choking shadows power to cover the shop that the Anarch is staying in

Me: So, you know what that does, right?

Lasombra Player: It reduced stamina and blots things out

Me: Uhuh

Lasombra Player: I use it

Me: Roll

Lasombra Player who specced heavily into this: over six successes

Me: So, every human in over a city block is now dead

Lasombra: Wait what?

Me: On average, humans have 2 stamina dice. This power makes it so people lose 2 stamina dice. Meaning they have stamina 0 which is, they are drowned and choked in this.

Lasombra: Well okay, we go into the area and kill the vampire we were looking for

Me: Please understand that people outside of this can see the giant ass cloud of death that defies physics.

He later switched over to a toreador lawyer swordswoman

and is unable to negotiate or come up with alternative solutions to problems.

 

[Repentant_Dragos]

Mostly because there is like 3 people active in this thread and at most 10-20 people who knows about WoD in the entire site.

I could answer it but didn't feel like it. Let me answer some because I feel bad now.


It wouldn't remove it in my opinion but when Awakening and the Ascension is literally road to the "Indestructible, Unchanging and Imperishable Truths of the World" most people leave behind their past.

Its basically seeing the glimpses of The Root.


It's not going to change much, even if you get more viewers and readers from it majority of the people will be from the Type Moon side.

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That few?!

And thanks - Those answers help!

Also, do you know anyone who is running a Mage game (Ascension or Awakening)? Because I really love Mage but can't find a game.

 

[shadowdice]

That few?!

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QQ has a relatively small amount of WOD fics

I think the longest one we have might be my VTMB one.

 

[Repentant_Dragos]

QQ has a relatively small amount of WOD fics

I think the longest one we have might be my VTMB one.

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Ah, I saw that, but sadly not a fan of Vampires, as I said before. Well, except Salubri and Assamites - I love those.

 

[Maragas]

Guy playing a Lasombra: I want to use Shroud of Night to cover everything in my choking shadows power to cover the shop that the Anarch is staying in

Me: So, you know what that does, right?

Lasombra Player: It reduced stamina and blots things out

Me: Uhuh

Lasombra Player: I use it

Me: Roll

Lasombra Player who specced heavily into this: over six successes

Me: So, every human in over a city block is now dead

Lasombra: Wait what?

Me: On average, humans have 2 stamina dice. This power makes it so people lose 2 stamina dice. Meaning they have stamina 0 which is, they are drowned and choked in this.

Lasombra: Well okay, we go into the area and kill the vampire we were looking for

Me: Please understand that people outside of this can see the giant ass cloud of death that defies physics.

He later switched over to a toreador lawyer swordswoman

and is unable to negotiate or come up with alternative solutions to problems.

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Reminds me of a time where I unintentionally caused a pandemic with Corrupt the Undead Flesh as a Giovanni Elder.

At least it wasn't intentional and it technically didn't break the Masquerade because well...it was a horrible disease.

 

[gereh]

Me: So, every human in over a city block is now dead

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Hope that was Sabbat Campaign

 

[Repentant_Dragos]

Hope that was Sabbat Campaign

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It probably was, if one of the members knew Obteneration.

 

[gereh]

It probably was, if one of the members knew Obteneration.

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I mean Lasombra are part of the Camarilla in V5... but I think using "Oblivion" as a Lasombra is frowned on

Edit: Now that I think about it, I don't think Shroud of Night is in V5, I think they reworked/renamed it

 

[shadowdice]

Hope that was Sabbat Campaign

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It is a "Camarilla" game where they are only vaguely in the sect due to waking up a Tzimisce Methuselah with a hard on for Constantinople and they are trying to wake up Antedeluvians so that there is a force to Offset Lilith having blood bonded her Apostates

 

[gereh]

It is a "Camarilla" game where they are only vaguely in the sect due to waking up a Tzimisce Methuselah with a hard on for Constantinople and they are trying to wake up Antedeluvians so that there is a force to Offset Lilith having blood bonded her Apostates

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Because nothing can go wrong by waking up Antedeluvians, right?

I mean in this kinda scenario, you are already fucked. So I can understand not caring about killing of a whole block and breaking the masquerade.

 

[shadowdice]

Because nothing can go wrong by waking up Antedeluvians, right?

I mean in this kinda scenario, you are already fucked. So I can understand not caring about killing of a whole block and breaking the masquerade.

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The city block was before they knew that it was the apocalypse and the reasoning for waking up the antes is "There are over five working for Lilith, we really need people that might be able to stop her"

 

[gereh]

The city block was before they knew that it was the apocalypse and the reasoning for waking up the antes is "There are over five working for Lilith, we really need people that might be able to stop her"

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Who cares how many Antedeluvians there are, there is fucking Lilith, they will need to bring big daddy Caine to have any chance of winning that fight (and that is probably exactly what Lilith wants).

 

[Maragas]

Who cares how many Antedeluvians there are, there is fucking Lilith, they will need to bring big daddy Caine to have any chance of winning that fight (and that is probably exactly what Lilith wants).

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Now now, Lasombra alone has a decent chance of eating both Lilith and Cain if he is prepared enough, it's one of the " You Lose" conditions of the scenario after all. I suppose the Abyss does have all the answers*, including "How to sacrifice my nearly invincible Grandpa?"

Spoiler

Note: I think I know what your players will fall for shadowdice, it will be what they deserved. Trusting Lasombra Antediluvian

Though if I was the players, I would try to find Abel in the Underworld. He is the only true ally of Cain even after all those years. Being the exact opposite of Cain and the most innocent person in the world does that to you.
And that he is as powerful if not more powerful than Lilith.

Spoiler

*

Spoiler: Whispers in the Dark

 

[shadowdice]

Who cares how many Antedeluvians there are, there is fucking Lilith, they will need to bring big daddy Caine to have any chance of winning that fight (and that is probably exactly what Lilith wants).

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Yes

Also The Crone working with Lilith for her own purposes.

Their benefactor, *one of Lilith's biological children who really hates his mother* gave them the plan of trying to wake up other antediluvians and having them actually, you know, do the stuff which Caine had asked them to do, and hope that doing that would get Caine to show up and helping them because "OH GOD THE PAIN PLEASE GOD HELP"

It has essentially been

1. Listen to the ancient blood sorcerer who has admitted to being blood bonded to Lilith and trying to get out of it
2. Find Ventru because the texts make it sound like Ventru was the one who was trusted by Caine the most. Also, Dominate and Presence 10 might help win negotiation with other Antes
3. Head into the Underworld and find enoch since they had a vision of being in there
4. Pray to GOD that they can find Arikel who might be able to help track down the other Antes
5. Maybe or Maybe not wake up Troile given that Ilyes is around and is super scary
6. Gather Antediluvians like Pokemon and air their personal grievances with each other
7. Avoid Saulot getting out of the Vienna chantry given
8. Try to kill the Baali Methuselahs since Caine told the Antes to deal with that
9. Possibly find a way to free Zillah from underneath the Dome of The Rock and use that to get Daddy Caine to help them

Now now, Lasombra alone has a decent chance of eating both Lilith and Cain if he is prepared enough, it's one of the " You Lose" conditions of the scenario after all. I suppose the Abyss does have all the answers*, including "How to sacrifice my nearly invincible Grandpa?"

Spoiler

Note: I think I know what your players will fall for shadowdice, it will be what they deserved. Trusting Lasombra Antediluvian

Though if I was the players, I would try to find Abel in the Underworld. He is the only true ally of Cain even after all those years. Being the exact opposite of Cain and the most innocent person in the world does that to you.
And that he is as powerful if not more powerful than Lilith.

Spoiler

*

Spoiler: Whispers in the Dark

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What book is the Lasombra one from?

As things are currently, they are trusting Mekhet (an altered version from Fair is Foul) who is very open about having been Best Buddies with Set and Tzimisce to the point that he helped the former kill Osiris. Their party also includes a Lhiannan (The first one who is down to 8th gen due to repeated siring to weaken her presence and avoid her sire The Crone) that has openly summoned demons and bound them in front of the players.

Mekhet: Look, as a vampire, I like being around still. So, killing Osiris was totally necessary. Also, we need to kill Saulot, trust me on this. He made the Baali. We Are Killing Saulot.

Lhiannan: And we now have one of the watchers sealed for later use

Tremere Player: I love you ancient witch granny

 

[Garahs]

It would be nice to play in a Mage the Awakening game. Never had the chance to really play around in the system.

 

[Maragas]

What book is the Lasombra one from?

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Dark Ages, Players Guide to High Clans, Page 179-180

As things are currently, they are trusting Mekhet (an altered version from Fair is Foul) who is very open about having been Best Buddies with Set and Tzimisce to the point that he helped the former kill Osiris. Their party also includes a Lhiannan (The first one who is down to 8th gen due to repeated siring to weaken her presence and avoid her sire The Crone) that has openly summoned demons and bound them in front of the players.

Mekhet: Look, as a vampire, I like being around still. So, killing Osiris was totally necessary. Also, we need to kill Saulot, trust me on this. He made the Baali. We Are Killing Saulot.

Lhiannan: And we now have one of the watchers sealed for later use

Tremere Player: I love you ancient witch granny

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Oh boy, they are heading straight into the bad end. Good luck.

It would be nice to play in a Mage the Awakening game. Never had the chance to really play around in the system.

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Yeah, the system is pretty fun. I especially like the Reach mechanic.

 

[gereh]

Now now, Lasombra alone has a decent chance of eating both Lilith and Cain if he is prepared enough, it's one of the " You Lose" conditions of the scenario after all. I suppose the Abyss does have all the answers*, including "How to sacrifice my nearly invincible Grandpa?"

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There is a reason why I like playing Lasombra Abyss Mystics

But I wouldn't bet on get Lasombra to help, because the Gehenna Book they are using, at least I think they are using it, also says the following:

Spoiler

You can take that in different ways, I always took it as Lasombra is dead and whatever it is that dwells in the Abyss isn't Lasombra but something else.

Oh boy, they are heading straight into the bad end. Good luck.

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As expected.

Yeah, the system is pretty fun.

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Yes, but learning all the mechanics is a pain. Mage definitely needs a "M5" update and a trim down and stream lining of mechanics, imho.

 

[shadowdice]

There is a reason why I like playing Lasombra Abyss Mystics

But I wouldn't bet on get Lasombra to help, because the Gehenna Book they are using, at least I think they are using it, also says the following:

Spoiler

You can take that in different ways, I always took it as Lasombra is dead and whatever it is that dwells in the Abyss isn't Lasombra but something else.

As expected.

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I have it so every Antedeluvian is around (including non-canon ones).

I'm running the Aralu and coffins in Enoch being a respawn mechanic that Caine placed on the Antes to make it so they have to suffer along with him

Caine: Don't think that death is going to let you guys get out of your punishments.

Dark Ages, Players Guide to High Clans, Page 179-180


Oh boy, they are heading straight into the bad end. Good luck.

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Technically?

No and Yes.

Mekhet legitimately does want Lilith and the Crone gone so that humanity doesn't get destroyed. The problem being that his wife is the Unnamed Baali who they managed to kill and arrange the reincarnation of into a mage (same ritual which allowed Set to be reborn in the modern era) but got dragged back into it in Carthage by Moloch re-embracing her. Mekhet has no intention to betray the players, it is just that he is paranoid and is perfectly willing to kill and keep killing other antediluvians who he thinks will fuck things up. While also having a blind spot for those he was friends with. Having Lilith as a mother does not necessarily lead to good choices.

Mekhet: Saulot, he spent too much time with the Kuei-Jin, those idiots who think that boiling a baby alive is a way to gain enlightenment. Plus, he made the Baali, so he needs to die. Cappadocius? The idiot wants to Diablerize God and I doubt we would survive or want to exist, not live, I doubt life would be a thing, in the aftermath. Osiris wants us all to commit suicide and cucked my friend, so no.

also Mekhet: Look, I know that Set ate a Wyrm spirit and was corrupted by it, but I am totally sure that being reborn as a semi-mortal being will give him another chance. Look, he is killing his worshippers. Tzimisce is the same, he died, became a fetus, and was birthed by one of his loyal followers. It will be fine.

The Lhiannan is paranoid about The Crone and desperately wants to kill her, and will do anything for that purpose, including summoning (but not worshipping or sacrificing to) demons. There are some mental gymnastics there.

As things are now

Basket (Tremere Player): Has Mekhet, Tzimisce, Set, and Arikel interested in her (She diablerized a Setite and has made clothing based upon Old Testament and first city fashion). Unfortunately, the Crone is watching her as well

Bruce (Gangrel Player): Has Tzimisce, Ennoia, Ravnos and Set attention (He accidentally learned Koldunism and knows ancient Egyptian. A Ravnos handed him a cursed charm that had been tied to the previous holder and actively draws the attention of the Ante. The player doesn't know it)

Kokoro (Toreador Player, former Lasombra): Has Ilyes (OG Brujah), and Ikopabe (Laibon) attention, but will quickly gain Troile attention (Is specced around murder murder and murder) and Haqim (Rampant attemptive diablerist swordswoman who talks about law, politics, and honor). Mekbet hates her.

edit

I might post my list and profiles of the Antes in my campaign a different day. Part of what I'm doing currently is finding images to use for them since my game is online

 

[Maragas]

But I wouldn't bet on get Lasombra to help, because the Gehenna Book they are using, at least I think they are using it, also says the following:

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Yep, I know that but every scenario is totally different from each other. For example;

They say, straight from the writer, that Set isn't coming back and Setite magic has no use.

Spoiler

But you know what happens in a scenario?
He comes back.

Spoiler: I lived bitch

But you are actually bang on about Lasombra. He became an Abyssal creature rather than a Vampire in that scenario. He will fully ascend when Cain dies and the last remnants of his physical body, Chained by the Curse, disappears. Though he is fully conscious about it and I doubt he didn't do it to himself.

Spoiler

 

[shadowdice]

Yep, I know that but every scenario is totally different from each other. For example;

They say, straight from the writer, that Set isn't coming back and Setite magic has no use.

Spoiler

But you know what happens in a scenario?
He comes back.

Spoiler: I lived bitch

But you are actually bang on about Lasombra. He became an Abyssal creature rather than a Vampire in that scenario. He will fully ascend when Cain dies and the last remnants of his physical body, Chained by the Curse, disappears. Though he is fully conscious about it and I doubt he didn't do it to himself.

Spoiler

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For Lasombra, I'm having it be that spending so much time in the Abyss has actually led to Lasombra being bent under the will of The Grand Maw (Orpheus) and it is just generally very confused, so Lasombra is trying to chiefly find a way to get out of its control

Unfortunately for him, the players accidentally woke up The Grand Maw and caused a piece of it to enter Basket's brain

Basket: Why is the scary eldritch abomination in me? Why do I keep attracting scary old ladies

Lasombra: First time?

 

[gereh]

Yep, I know that but every scenario is totally different from each other. For example;

They say, straight from the writer, that Set isn't coming back and Setite magic has no use.

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I know that, but that part is out of the introduction and not out of a scenario. And that's like the "canon" places/scenarios (which got changed probably changed in later editions), but it's WofD nothing is written in stone (beside shit that people write into stones, I guess) so you can always change things up, like they do themself, by bringing back Set (even if I'm not sure that it was Setite Magic that brought him back, been some time that since I last read that book).

But now that I have met other WofD Fans that know their lore, what's you'll opinion on the new V5 Stuff? Because I'm still a bit torn, not really sure if our group should make the shift or not. My players seem to like the new stuff but they are also happy with the old one, so I guess I have to make the choice before the next campaign starts.

 

[Maragas]

But now that I have met other WofD Fans that know their lore, what's you'll opinion on the new V5 Stuff? Because I'm still a bit torn, not really sure if our group should make the shift or not. My players seem to like the new stuff but they are also happy with the old one, so I guess I have to make the choice before the next campaign starts.

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In my opinion? Mostly bad.

It's because of several factors ranging from the most annoying layout I have seen in a book, disciplines getting fucked over hard especially disciplines like Vicissitude, plot elements like Second Inquisition and how it bends over backwards to them*, turning Sabbat into something completely different and focusing on Anarchs as if they could actually accomplish something and small changes like turning the Setites into the Ministry or the whole "Let's put all the necromancers into one group" Hecata stuff.

Overall, it had potential but it's really not for me. I would recommend VTR 2nd Edition from Chronicles of Darkness to that if you want to try something new and I am not that much of a CofD player.

*Vampires are mechanically weaker, they lost all of their Elders to the Middle East, hell most of the Sabbat went to die in the Middle East and because Elders went to the Middle East they can't even use their own resources because apparently Elders left without leaving instructions. Second Inquisition also somehow managed to do everything they did without anyone, in splat or out of it, learning about it. Not even any Elders. This includes breaching into Shrek Net. Not to mention I have no idea how Vienna actually fell when Tremere Prime Chantry should be warded to hell and back that not even an entire Werewolf tribe should be able to clean it out without enormous casualties.

 

[gereh]

In my opinion? Mostly bad.

It's because of several factors ranging from the most annoying layout I have seen in a book, disciplines getting fucked over hard especially disciplines like Vicissitude, plot elements like Second Inquisition and how it bends over backwards to them*, turning Sabbat into something completely different and focusing on Anarchs as if they could actually accomplish something and small changes like turning the Setites into the Ministry or the whole "Let's put all the necromancers into one group" Hecata stuff.

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I liked the "ministry" and Hecata ideas. Setites need some kind of rebranding, they where almost always played as sterotypical bad guys, at least whenever I saw someone play them and the you can still play all the different Hecata bloodlines? Can you not? I thought the whole thing was more, okay we have all the guys who mostly have the same skills, let's put them all together so it's easier for new players.

Second Inquisition also somehow managed to do everything they did without anyone, in splat or out of it, learning about it. Not even any Elders. This includes breaching into Shrek Net. Not to mention I have no idea how Vienna actually fell when Tremere Prime Chantry should be warded to hell and back that not even an entire Werewolf tribe should be able to clean it out without enormous casualties

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Ah, yes the NSA breaching SchreckNet... Because the NSA has better hackers than the Nosferatu has security guys and the Nosferatu weren't able to figure out that the NSA was about to breach it because somehow they didn't have any spies in the NSA branch. Or the Lasombra not realising that the church was about to form a pact with the U.S. guys to hunt vamps, the classical Stuff. Also Werewolfs should simply use bombs and chantry would go "puff", I guess.

New Lore is kinda iffy, also why are there Methusallems running around Chigago, if they are all gone? Was more interested in the thoughts to the new systems. I think the Loresheet and the Blood mechanics sound pretty cool, but we haven't really tested them out. Only run some two shots in the new system.

On the other hand V5 got us some new vampire games, so there is that.

 

[shadowdice]

I know that, but that part is out of the introduction and not out of a scenario. And that's like the "canon" places/scenarios (which got changed probably changed in later editions), but it's WofD nothing is written in stone (beside shit that people write into stones, I guess) so you can always change things up, like they do themself, by bringing back Set (even if I'm not sure that it was Setite Magic that brought him back, been some time that since I last read that book).

But now that I have met other WofD Fans that know their lore, what's you'll opinion on the new V5 Stuff? Because I'm still a bit torn, not really sure if our group should make the shift or not. My players seem to like the new stuff but they are also happy with the old one, so I guess I have to make the choice before the next campaign starts.

Click to shrink...

I liked the "ministry" and Hecata ideas. Setites need some kind of rebranding, they where almost always played as sterotypical bad guys, at least whenever I saw someone play them and the you can still play all the different Hecata bloodlines? Can you not? I thought the whole thing was more, okay we have all the guys who mostly have the same skills, let's put them all together so it's easier for new players.



Ah, yes the NSA breaching SchreckNet... Because the NSA has better hackers than the Nosferatu has security guys and the Nosferatu weren't able to figure out that the NSA was about to breach it because somehow they didn't have any spies in the NSA branch. Or the Lasombra not realising that the church was about to form a pact with the U.S. guys to hunt vamps, the classical Stuff. Also Werewolfs should simply use bombs and chantry would go "puff", I guess.

New Lore is kinda iffy, also why are there Methusallems running around Chigago, if they are all gone? Was more interested in the thoughts to the new systems. I think the Loresheet and the Blood mechanics sound pretty cool, but we haven't really tested them out. Only run some two shots in the new system.

On the other hand V5 got us some new vampire games, so there is that.

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So by the things you've said.

The opening fiction in Gehenna which isn't used by the scenarios does not specify how Set came back.

The Setites rebranding is the issue. They have several thousand years of doing a very specific thing, which people know about, and the issue you are having "Played as stereotypical bad guys" is a weakness in the writer/storyteller/player

So, just going by their Paths/Roads

Road of Set. The ideal is not to simply indulge yourself in personal debauchery and the like, and you aren't just trying to kill everyone. Every act of temptation, every attempt to incite chaos within the ranks of others, is meant to have them come over to your side, convert, and embrace Set and the Truth of Him. Once this is enacted, you must do everything possible to help them obtain spiritual enlightenment and survive those who would fight against His Church. Chaos itself is not the goal, simply a tool which shall be put down and destroyed as it is an aspect of Apep, but like Set, one must use the tools of the accursed serpent from time to time.

Path of Apep. This is where you get the Slaaneshi shit. This is where you get corruption, mindbreak, NTR, and other tags you normally associate with the Setites, and

modern paths

Path of Typhon: Similar to the Road of Set, but the conversion process has taken on the mindset of Apep which is about corruption

Path of Sutekh: LIke Typhon but more focus on breaking moral taboos to Free Oneself From The Material World

Path of the Warrior: Egyptian Einharjar, no really. Your ideology is based around the idea that you are a warrior of Set who fights, trains, and exists for the final battle between Set and others in the end times so that He may triumph and Enlighten the world. Be the snek muscle bro who refines his body and skills, always setting new goals to test yourself and do your best to exceed them. The reason you kill people painfully is as a prayer to Set so that He shall have more power.

Path of Ecstasy: MINDBREAKNTRFUCKANUNTODEATHONTOPAPILEOFCOKEKILLANYONEWHOISUGLYANDMAKETHEIRFRIENDSWATCHIT BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD TITS FOR THE TITS THRONE remember to always obtain money, drugs, and make beautiful things so that others will be corrupted and join the murderdeathsexwithsnakescult

Hecata works if you acknowledge that they are all preparing to stab each other in the back while having just taken major losses so they need to recover, and even then, it is a very loose alliance. I don't like it, but my main issue is rolling Necromancy in with Obtenebration.

More annoying with the Hecate is that they moved around disciplines for The Giovanni who now have Fortitude instead of Potence, which makes them too close to Ventrue since they also have Dominate.

The SI is shit plain and simple.

With Chicago, Menele s gone, Helena can somehow DECREASE the potency of her blood by eating newbie vampires which makes no sense from a lore perspective, and now we have a bunch of eldritch abominations/maybe sleeping ancients in the area.

Hate the new Blood mechanics. Loresheets could make sense, but the apparent way it is supposed to work is as a static level instead of one which can increase, and you are only supposed to be able to have one. Which makes no sense.

I have adapted a few for my v20 game where it is goal based or upon relationship levels, where it can rise and fall depending on what you end up doing.

 

[Repentant_Dragos]

It would be nice to play in a Mage the Awakening game. Never had the chance to really play around in the system.

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Oh, yes! Also, nice Final Fantasy Unlimited profile picture!

 

[gereh]

The Setites rebranding is the issue. They have several thousand years of doing a very specific thing, which people know about, and the issue you are having "Played as stereotypical bad guys" is a weakness in the writer/storyteller/player

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I'm not saying that there weren't other ways to play them, but most people go really in on the whole "Corrupter" thing the Clan has had going, forgetting to add other interesting character traits. I know, that this is the player or ST's fault, but that just something I observed a lot. Also lets be real the main issue is not the rebranding as Ministry, the issues are that they where forced to leave their home turf (because big scary Gehenna Crusade) and are now more or less part of the Anarchs and that there are no Paths of Enlightment in V5 (as far as I know).

Hecata works if you acknowledge that they are all preparing to stab each other in the back while having just taken major losses so they need to recover, and even then, it is a very loose alliance. I don't like it, but my main issue is rolling Necromancy in with Obtenebration.

More annoying with the Hecate is that they moved around disciplines for The Giovanni who now have Fortitude instead of Potence, which makes them too close to Ventrue since they also have Dominate.

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On both points, I couldn't really agree more, also the whole you can get Strain on your Humanity when using Oblivion is also another point that I really dislike. (Again because there are no Paths in the game that is a real problem)

With Chicago, Menele s gone, Helena can somehow DECREASE the potency of her blood by eating newbie vampires which makes no sense from a lore perspective, and now we have a bunch of eldritch abominations/maybe sleeping ancients in the area.

Hate the new Blood mechanics. Loresheets could make sense, but the apparent way it is supposed to work is as a static level instead of one which can increase, and you are only supposed to be able to have one. Which makes no sense.

I have adapted a few for my v20 game where it is goal based or upon relationship levels, where it can rise and fall depending on what you end up doing.

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There is also mentioning of Marcus Vittel still fucking around in DC, he should also be 5th Gen, if I remember correctly and about 2000 years old. As for Loresheet, for how I see them: You can choose on at char creation, but in the chronicle you may gain other ones and get new ranks in the ones you have, depending on your actions.

Also you mind telling me what you don't like about the new Blood mechanic, because there maybe some part of it, I didn't realise.

 

[shadowdice]

I'm not saying that there weren't other ways to play them, but most people go really in on the whole "Corrupter" thing the Clan has had going, forgetting to add other interesting character traits. I know, that this is the player or ST's fault, but that just something I observed a lot. Also lets be real the main issue is not the rebranding as Ministry, the issues are that they where forced to leave their home turf (because big scary Gehenna Crusade) and are now more or less part of the Anarchs and that there are no Paths of Enlightment in V5 (as far as I know).


On both points, I couldn't really agree more, also the whole you can get Strain on your Humanity when using Oblivion is also another point that I really dislike. (Again because there are no Paths in the game that is a real problem)




There is also mentioning of Marcus Vittel still fucking around in DC, he should also be 5th Gen, if I remember correctly and about 2000 years old. As for Loresheet, for how I see them: You can choose on at char creation, but in the chronicle you may gain other ones and get new ranks in the ones you have, depending on your actions.

Also you mind telling me what you don't like about the new Blood mechanic, because there maybe some part of it, I didn't realise.

Click to shrink...

V5 has it so everyone draws their own moral guidelines

so unless you actually have people try to act like reasonable human beings they will push that envelope to avoid stains

The "Vittel" there is implied to be Lasombra/ a shadow monster/eldritch abomination pretending to be him

rouse check, resonance in regard to discipline, and hunger dice annoy me greatly

so

What I did with my campaign

The Thirteen (AKA The mainline ones)

Spoiler

Ventru

Was born as a daughter of a tribal warlord during the time of the First City, their tribe was conquered by the First City and added to the armies Caine was using because "Oh God, Infinite Werecreatures, Fairies, weird demon cults, and more. I need more people to run this and keep humanity from dying off" And was taken as a Ward "Totally not a hostage" but treated okay, as many were. In part due to the fact that the 2nd Gen were infertile like other vampires, and Caine saw wards as a way to give them a semblance of it and allowed the 2nd Gen to eventually ghoul such Wards.

That didn't always work out very well, as Ventru and Mekhet later found Tzimisce, another Ward of Enoch, now a vampire, raving mad, and splattered all over a dungeon as a mass of gibbering meat driven insane by having Enoch's Beast and Malice inside of him.

Ventru brought this information to Caine, who told Enoch to Embrace Ventru, then staked Enoch, removed the insane Tzimisce from his cell, and put Enoch there as punishment. Caine set Ventru as the new Hand of Caine to replace Enoch and gave the Antedeluvian the job of handling matters in the city and mediating between vampires, their numbers slowly growing with more 3rd Generation vampires as Caine pushed in the wars with other supernatural beings.

After the Deluge, Caine had Enoch freed from his cage and join the Antedeluvians in the Second City before going off into the wastes in despair over what happened, reaffirming Ventru's role as the one in charge.

Everyone almost immediately took issue with this and started hoarding the weapons from before the Deluge or making new weapons while embracing childer. Ventru collected her own horde of much better stuff left to her by Caine, but Obfuscate 10 is the kind of stuff which gets past security measures and a few of the Antediluvians did so. She left the city to find Caine and get help, but was staked by the recently Wyrmed Set leading to the 3rd Gen Uprising and fall/diablerie/torpor of the 2nd gen.

The resultant constant agony from a Wyrm corrupted stake to the heart resulted in Mekhet and Tzimisce performing a Koldunic ritual to move Ventru over to a new body (There is a Koldunism Ritual for that), which allowed Ventru to fake her death and move around without the other Antes thinking that she was alive before eventually getting staked by Lucian (Apostate) and left in Carcassonne.

Lasombra

Sired by Irad the Strong due to having been one of the early sea explorers, the Antediluvian was ordered to organize the First City's naval campaigns (Wars with weresharks and Lilith's monstrosities). Studying these enemies led to Lasombra becoming heavily involved in the occult studies of the First City and the development of Obtenebration.

Lasombra LOVED Obtenebration and became far too interested in the latter of his enemies, attempting to replicate their abilities and considering it better than vampirism. When the Deluge came, he tried to swim into the darkness beyond, but failed and was incredibly angry about his inability to get over to the other side that time. He was convinced Irad to lead the Rebellion but failed to Diablerize his sire during that, leading to him fucking off to an island and focusing on trying to explore the abyss, attempting to find the deepest section of it. His siring of others was mainly focused upon obtaining more researchers to better understand his passion project.

By the time of his "Diablerie" he came to believe that nothing more could be learned on Earth, and allowed his body to be destroyed, having turned all of his blood into shadows that had already slunk off and delved into the Abyss.

Unfortunately for him, he found the center, and was promptly mindbroken by The Grand Maw and turned into its servant/extension, which he is deeply unhappy about and is trying to find a way to take control

This would be very bad for everyone.

Gangrel (Ennoia)

A Child of Lilith born during Lilith's travels alongside several others. Arikel (Toreador), Malakai, Mekhet, Churka (Ravnos), and Malkav. Each was twinned with one or another (Churka in her case) and with the exception of Mekhet and Arikel, became the lovers of their twin while being told that Lilith had born a set of twins by Lucifer, Adam, and Caine (While never telling which set who each ones specific father was). At this time, they were mages, but were raised outside of human society and had no understanding of it. The Curse of Lilith ensured that they did not care for their mother, and the six eventually left Lilith's side, heading to the First City when they heard of it due to learning of Caine's existence.

Their "Father" promptly took them in to make sure that Lilith didn't retain six horrifying super weapons. Ennoia was taken in by Enoch and gained her name by him. He experimented on what Magic did for a long time, attempting and failing to recreate it, eventually frenzying and embracing Ennoia, prompting his attempt to remove his Beast by placing it within Tzimisce. Ennoia had melded with the Earth immediately after her Embrace, and eventually resurfaced once Enoch was in Torpor, learning that her other siblings had been embraced as well.

During this time, she began to work with Absimiliard to hunt various creatures, but became disgusted by his arrogance upon learning that he was attempting to court both her and Arikel while spreading tales of conquest.

What proceeded was the Children of Lilith binding Absimiliiard and beating him nearly to death while placing curses upon him.

Ennoia was then placed on the outskirts of Caine's empire, taking Ikopabe and Lhiannan (Two other Antediluvians) with her as subordinates, and working alongside Churka. During this time, they warred with Early Kuei-Jin, during which Saulot traveled to the enemy lands and later came back. Churka was greatly interested in what Saulot learned, causing a rift between the siblings and eventually coming to blows as Churka betrayed Caine's empire immediately before the Deluge.

The pair did not spend much time in the second city, and were not involved in the uprising due to not being present.

Churka (Ravnos)

Most of his backstory is up there, though he was sired by Irad to be used as a spy.

Troile (Brujah)

A woman embraced by Ilyes in the First City, and thus one of the first members of the Fourth Generation. The slow descent into madness and suspicion that most of the others were entering led to a joint project with Arikel to make artwork that would reawaken humanity amongst them, and had been pretending to be a human assistant of Arikel at the time.

When Ilyes came to Troile and discussed that he had made a mistake, she diablerized him, which Caine revealed he knew, and noted that Ilyes had broken the rules first while not instructing her, and he considered Ilyes's death a proper punishment while warning her that the paranoia she felt should be a sign to not create Childer, noting that the artwork she had made evened the balance for now

During the time of the Second City, she joined her grandsire Irad in an attempt to slay the other members of the 2nd gen and would later leave to found Carthage, listening to a longtime lover of hers, Moloch, when he reappeared. She eventually learned that he was a Baali, but believed that The Children must be kept asleep and perpetuated depravities to keep them away. Canon happens otherwise.

Cappadocius (Cappadocian)

Canon overall, sired by Irad. Wants to eat God.

Saulot (Salubri)

Sired by Enoch and kept in a temple before his rampant siring was revealed. He went over to the Kuei-Jin to learn more of mysticism and morality, attempting to transcend his state. During his travel back, he found the city which the Baali Founders had lived in, slaughtered them, and embraced Three due to considering this a step on his path to Enlightenment.

He spent great amounts of time with Set and Malkav, the former two helping Malkav enter extreme situations to incite his visions, and told them of Kuei-Jin believes, attempting to find the method for the other two to become enlightened, and encouraging Set to take power from the Lupine's enemy and using his beast to subjugate it (This did not work).

Canon otherwise, is currently in Tremere's body underneath Gehenna, fighting for control with Tzimisce. The two dislike each other over their very different treatment by their sire, and Saulot wishes to

Absimiliard (Nosferatu)

Mostly described above, sired by Zillah. His story is mostly the canon one with being obsessed with Arikel and trying to kill her. He had a brother, Lucian, who was embraced as well.

Set

Sired by Zillah he would eventually enter a relationship with Arikel while studying visions with Malkav, and sorcery with Mekhet and Tzimisce. He would be incited by Saulot to gain more power, eating a powerful Bane spirit and growing corrupted by it. By the time of the Second City, he was banished by Malkav for his increasing evil. Irad had sired Osiris by this time and the younger Third Gen was ruling another city which Set visited and eventually stayed within. Mekhet traveled to the area to continue their studies, Set eventually ghouling his mortal wife Nepenthys, why learned alongside. He prepared a ritual which would allow the two to conceive, but Osiris obfuscated himself to take Set's appearance, leading to the birth of Anubis and Set becoming murderous.

This started their Feud, with the pair constantly undermining each other and trying to end the other's life. Mekhet would see Set's insanity and move to Osiris's side until later betraying him once more to Set when Osiris was a mummy/ghost, due to learning Osiris's belief that all Kindred should die.

After this, Mekhet offered the idea of Set reincarnating in the future, ascending to a state which would not have the weaknesses of a vampire, which Set agreed to. In truth, this was an attempt by Mekhet to remove the influence of the Bane spirit which he had devoured.

Assam (Assamite)

An assassin Ghoul of Zillah granted the embrace after the successful killing of the King and Queen of Enoch, Assam was tasked to act as a judge and lawmaker for the First City while Ventru acted as its executive. The two worked alongside each other, and would have a relationship of respect in the First City. When the Baali were revealed to the Antediluvians, he began to mass Embrace childer, placing them in warrior positions under himself, scholars to attend to Ventru, or magi to study under the School of Magic run by Mekhet, Set, Tzimisce, and Lhiannan.

After the Fall of the First City, his relationship with Ventru soured, blaming her leadership for the Deluge. He trained members of his clan to administrate in the Second City, but left to wander as Caine did, but was called back by Saulot upon the beginning of the Second Baali War. As things continued, he came to believe that the constantly bickering Second City was a lost cause, took his most loyal Childer, and left for the Eagle's Nest, abandoning the city to whatever would com next.


Malkav

Mostly discussed above. A son of Lilith given the embrace by Zillah, he was close friends with Set and Saulot, philosophizing them and having them aide in his search for stimuli that would cause his visions to arise. During the Deluge, he fell into the ocean, and was drawn to his mother, who cursed him to drink the blood of the second generation while imprisoning Malakai in the shadowlands. The loss of his lover and a new overwhelming desire drove him deeper into insanity, which was further aggravated by the uprising led by Irad, which resulted in him attempting to diablerize Enoch, losing any grip on reality that he had.

His body was ripped apart by his own prompting to his childer, but the consumption of his blood by his childer allowed him to spread himself throughout all who have either drunk Malkavian blood or been embraced by them. One of his favored childer is beneath Jerusalem, and acts as a hub for his network.

Arikel

Another child of Lilith given to Zillah, Arikel's unlife was soon embroiled with Troile's as the recently embraced 4th Generation Vampire smashed into her studio soon after her own creation, fleeing Ilyes in a panic upon learning that her embrace was not sanctioned. Arikel came upon the idea of a joint project that would move Caine's heart, hoping to obtain leniency for Troile, and succeeding in this. She came to take a lover during the Baali wars, and attempted to kill him upon learning that he was Nergal, and had been corrupting Tzimisce and Troile, feeding into their paranoia and fears while inciting them to go deeper into their vices. This angered her fellows, as they refused to believe that Nergal was one of their enemies, and believed that she was undermining them.

When the Second City Fell, she fled, believing that the two would fall upon her next, and settled in Greece, focusing upon her arts and attempting to recreate the beauty that moved Caine, hoping that such items would bring the other Antediluvians back to the state they had been in before the Deluge.

Tzimisce

While the others believe that Tzimisce is a child of Enoch, he merely has his beast, instead having been embraced by Irad as the two members of the second generation had agreed upon the experiment. The insanity that resulted from ages as Enoch's test subject resulted in this information being lost to Tzimisce, and the mess which is his reformed mind focused on obtaining a form which could not be harmed. He would study magic to transcend his state, joining Mekhet, Set, and Lhiannan in this study, forming early Blood Sorcery, which was then split between Koldunic Sorcery, and Dur-An-Ki.

It would leave the First City and discover Kupala in what would one day become Transylvania, merging with the soil immediately before the Deluge. Using Tzimisce's absence, Saulot claimed that Tzimisce had created the Baali and attempted to kill it, failing, but managing to send the creature into Torpor long enough to miss the uprising in the Second City

Essentially, most of the problems come from Enoch and Irad

 

[Nervaqus987]

Spoiler

and Saulot wishes to

Click to shrink...

You kinda cut our here.

What's he wish to do?

 

[shadowdice]

You kinda cut our here.

What's he wish to do?

Click to shrink...

Avenge Enoch and get rid of the "mistakes"

 

[gereh]

V5 has it so everyone draws their own moral guidelines

so unless you actually have people try to act like reasonable human beings they will push that envelope to avoid stains

The "Vittel" there is implied to be Lasombra/ a shadow monster/eldritch abomination pretending to be him

rouse check, resonance in regard to discipline, and hunger dice annoy me greatly

Click to shrink...

I think the Strains from Oblivion are the only ones you can't talk away, because they don't happen because you go against you own moral guidliines, they happen because you tap into the power of Oblivion and you may "leave a part of yourself behind", again I need to reread that part, but I'm pretty sure that's how it was layed out.

As for Marcus Vitel, that is as far as I aware a rumor, something someone heard someone else say. So could be true could be false.

Ah yes Rouse Check aka the Double or Nothing version. Half the Bloodpoints the player have, but now they only use them up 50% of the time. Doesn't sound bad on paper, but need to play a longer campaign with it to see how it plays out, it may make people less likely to use their powers which would be a shame. Resonance is okayish, I think I will only handle the boost to players on special occasions and I like Hunger Dices the visual representation of your Hunger is nice and the fact that you can't willpower them because your beast controls them, I just would have liked a "willpower" like mechanic for them too, so that if you are "riding your beast" you can use that to only reroll your Hunger dice. So you beast wants you kill someone and you attack, you can use these "Beast Points" to reroll your hunger dice. But I guess I can see where you are coming from.

Also nice Lore you have there, would be a shame if someone came around and stole it. (Nah got my own Headcannon, but I may take some inspiration for later chronicles)