General World of Darkness Discussion Thread QQ Edition

[Repentant_Dragos]

Not saying either of them are bad, it's just they don't really work together as they have a fundamental different idea of how "the world" works and as Mage everything comes from you "knowing" how the world works and more or less enforcing you will on the world. So the moment the traditions would except the Technocracy (or the other way around) they would have to except that there world view would also be (at least to some part true) that would go against there own worldview aka "the Truth".

So as Mages do have to be very stubborn they probably would never do that and if they do they probably would become weakened as they are not being able to claim to know the "Truth" anymore.

Same way goes for the Technocracy when they except magic to be true they lose (some) faith in technology and as such there methods wouldn't work as good any more.

So if they ever but there differences aside (which they probably will never able to do for a longer period of time) it will lead to weakening the individual Mages, so overall it's not a good idea.

(Also the war isn't really a war about power or territories, the war is about what the core concept of Ascension is, so I'm not sure what a peace treaty even would contain, in the first place, as only one concept can be true at the same time)

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While your points are valid, and I don't want to get into an argument, I must say I disagree with the substance of this.

However, as I said, I don't want to argue this, so let's just not discuss this.

Edit: Let's talk about something less displeasing to me, such as the Craftmasons and how purging them was wrong.

Edit 2: I'm sorry if I snapped at you earlier. Just not in a good mood as I just woke up.

 

[gereh]

While your points are valid, and I don't want to get into an argument, I must say I disagree with the substance of this.

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To make something clear, because I think it may have not articulated myself correctly, I was trying to make an argument about "this isn't possible and if you do it you are stupid", because we have enough examples about them working together against a common enemy. I was trying to make a point about why they normally don't work together and why I don't really want to see it as a new canon storyline (also I personally like there individual identities and if they where official to work together on a permanent basis, I fear it would take away from that, but I guess any kind of new edition will have to make changes there)

That also why the part about not knowing what a "peace treaty would look like" was in braces as it was an afterthought and more a question to you, not as critique but because I was interested in what you idea was to make it work, because there are a lot of issues and bad blood here, so I'm unsure how to make a peace treaty work out. Because it sounded like you had an idea.

The only way I can come up with, would be the rumors that the Nephandi have infiltrated the Technocracy are true and where secretly controlling them all along and make there "final" move, leading to bloody conflict, it looks like the Nephandi would win and bring out the "Hell on earth" setting, but the Traditions together with some part Technocracy, that could escape the Nephandi influence band together and in the end are able to Triumph. With the Nephandi plot thwarted, they go back into the hiding and the Mages stand victorius but in the fight they have lost a lot of members, a lot of Archmages are dead, the Technocracy are Leaderless and overall most powerful mages are either grievously wounded or dead. So the Traditions and the remains of the Technocracy strick up a "peace deal". Basically a lesser evil kind of situation as they don't know, if (read when) the Nehandi will be back and they want to buncle there resources to get back to power quicker. (there would still be conflict and basically some cold war brewing, but that not a bad thing as stories needs conflicts to thrive).

But I don't think that scenario should become, the new canon. because it while it would be intersting to explore those scenario in a chronicle, it's a pretty different and not every character achetype would be able to be ported into that setting.

(Just to make it clear, there can be different scenarios that may work out with a general peace deal, I just couldn't think of any, so this is by no means absolute and I'm still interested to hear about you ideas on how it would work out)

However, as I said, I don't want to argue this, so let's just not discuss this.

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Arguing isn't something bad and I personally would like to be corrected if I said something that people think that is wrong, as it's the only way to learn. But I think most of the disagreement comes from me not articulating what I wanted say correctly and it sounded like I'm telling you that you shouldn't mix Traditions and Technocracy, while I was more pointing to why I think it's not done normally. I hope that's a bit clearer now.

 

[Repentant_Dragos]

Arguing isn't something bad and I personally would like to be corrected if I said something that people think that is wrong, as it's the only way to learn. But I think most of the disagreement comes from me not articulating what I wanted say correctly and it sounded like I'm telling you that you shouldn't mix Traditions and Technocracy, while I was more pointing to why I think it's not done normally. I hope that's a bit clearer now.

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It is; sorry for getting snippy earlier.

As for what a peace treaty would be like, well, to be honest, M20 and even Technocracy Reloaded admit that people are naturally irrational despite the benefits of Science and freely mix together 'Reason' and 'Superstition' (see that sidebar about the 'Rise of the Extraordinary Citizen'). While the Technocracy's leadership would hate conceding the fact that this is the status quo, true reason as well as logic would dictate that this is a new reality and that trying to change said new reality, as opposed to adapting to it, would just cause harm to everyone in the long run and allow the Nephandi more openings.

So I am thinking that a peace treaty involves the Technocracy and Traditions recognizing that the Sleepers want both Science and Magick, and formalizing the status quo which allows for both because The Sleepers deserve a voice and are subconsciously tired of being manipulated pawns.

Yes, totally idealistic, but also paradoxically realistic, considering the fact that Canon admits that this is already the reality of things in M20.

 

[gereh]

[...] that the Sleepers want both Science and Magick, and formalizing the status quo which allows for both because The Sleepers deserve a voice and are subconsciously tired of being manipulated pawns.

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I will try to take a critical look at the situation, if you don't looking for input, just ignore the following part. I was just thinking, that it may help to get someone else perspective on stuff.

But wouldn't that just lead to a conflict about how much Magick and how much Science is the right combination?

The Technocracy as they are right now will always push for new Science as they do believe that humanity as a whole would be able to ascend through Science (which is their endgoal after all). So they may except that Magick has a place to exist, but they would still try to push for more scientific development, which in turn will weaken the believe in magicka.

I will try to explain it with a personal anecdote. I'm studying for my Master in Mathematics and I work also a lot together with people from physic and Chemistery, so very scientific oriented people, I personal know of multiple people who are very strict Christians, some even creationist. Or are in spiritual Stuff, not the stuff, like horoscope and shit, that you can disprove, but the stuff that is vague enough like "feng shui". I guess knowing how much we still can't explain give credience to some stuff. But they are still working on figuring new stuff out (not stuff that is in conflict with there believes, but there is a lot we can't explain just yet and a lot of discoveries to be made.) But the more we can explain the less likely "normal" people are to believe into those non scientific stuff, so while the person who figured something out may be a Believer their discovery may lead to more people losing faith.

To bring it back to the Technocracy, they will not stop developing new scientific methods and the more science we have and the more we can explain, the less people believe in Magick, so the Traditions will have to do their own stuff to keep people believing and while you can believe in both, how much of the one and how much of the other do you believe? Where does trust in science start and where does it end.

I personally would see that ending in like a "cold war" like state where the parties aren't openly hostile and there are no conflicts, but both still press the ideologies, complete with proxy wars and stuff (as with the treaty they can't act against each other openly), I mean, if that what you are going for it will probably be an interesting scenario, as I said before stories need conflicts and I can see a lot of the brewing here. Maybe make a story of a team made up out of members of both sects whose job it is to make sure that the treaty isn't broken. Who are send out to make sure those individual conflicts to lead back to war, so some kind of peace keeper troops.

Btw, did you have an idea on what to use as the catalyst for the sudden change in tactics from the technocracy. Or is it supposed to have happened in a slow process over time? And we just see the end result in form of the treaty?

Yes, totally idealistic, but also paradoxically realistic, considering the fact that Canon admits that this is already the reality of things in M20.

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Here I have to disagree in parts, as Mage is a game which is all about changing the Realty, so just because something is the reality of the situation right now, doesn't mean it will stay that way.

 

[Repentant_Dragos]

I personally would see that ending in like a "cold war" like state where the parties aren't openly hostile and there are no conflicts, but both still press the ideologies, complete with proxy wars and stuff (as with the treaty they can't act against each other openly), I mean, if that what you are going for it will probably be an interesting scenario, as I said before stories need conflicts and I can see a lot of the brewing here. Maybe make a story of a team made up out of members of both sects whose job it is to make sure that the treaty isn't broken. Who are send out to make sure those individual conflicts to lead back to war, so some kind of peace keeper troops.

Btw, did you have an idea on what to use as the catalyst for the sudden change in tactics from the technocracy. Or is it supposed to have happened in a slow process over time? And we just see the end result in form of the treaty?


Here I have to disagree in parts, as Mage is a game which is all about changing the Realty, so just because something is the reality of the situation right now, doesn't mean it will stay that way.

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1.) I can deal with that.

2.) I was thinking of a victory for one of the more influential Dissident Factions, such as the Harbingers of Avalon if they don't leave the Technocracy.

3.) Well, true, but in this case, the Reality is what the Sleepers want, and the Sleepers are actually in the right to want it, although your mileage may vary as to whether that last part is true.

 

[Repentant_Dragos]

I apologize for double-posting, but I have a small problem:

I am in an Open World Discord RP and I play a Technocracy guy who is part of a Dissident faction (Harbingers of Avalon/NaValon) and he nearly outed himself in his first major interaction. He managed to sweet-talk his way out of it, but I had to spend Willpower like water to get the needed Successes and the ST did not allow me a good night's sleep afterward so I wasn't able to regain it. Thankfully, the Traditions and Technocracy are in a truce in the RP but I was told by the ST that I'll have to work hard and keep a low profile and not fuck up in order to regain the Technocracy's trust, which I need to advance my goals.

Note that my problem is not regaining trust, but rather the fact that it'll take several IRL days until the ST is able to run our first official mission, which in turn will be my opportunity to do so. Rather, how does my character spend their time?

By the way, what my character did was try and contact a Disparate Alliance NPC using a Grindr profile whose text had several in-jokes that only someone who knew the Technocracy's past as the Order of Reason would know (plus a picture of him being shirtless).

 

[Maragas]

Note that my problem is not regaining trust, but rather the fact that it'll take several IRL days until the ST is able to run our first official mission, which in turn will be my opportunity to do so. Rather, how does my character spend their time?

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It really depends on what kind of Construct you are assigned and what kind of Technocrat you are.

Go train yourself through Sleep Teaching, enjoy some recreational activities, tour the city you are assigned, read up the newest informational posts, bond with your Amalgam and Construct.

try and contact a Disparate Alliance NPC

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To be honest, good luck with that. Everyone thinks that, be it Traditions or Technocracy, Disparate Alliance is mostly dead and Disparate Alliance things everyone but themselves are Nephandi.

The only reason they are even a faction is because of their extreme paranoia and everyone thinking they are dead. Otherwise, both the Technocracy and the Traditions would be after them. (Especially if the Hollow Ones betrayed the Traditions)

So I wouldn't get my hopes up.

 

[Repentant_Dragos]

To be honest, good luck with that. Everyone thinks that, be it Traditions or Technocracy, Disparate Alliance is mostly dead and Disparate Alliance things everyone but themselves are Nephandi.

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How true is that in Canon?

 

[Maragas]

How true is that in Canon?

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Before M20? Not even remotely. Traditions and Technocracy have some Nephandic corruption but that's normal. If any one of them was full-on Nephandic the world of WoD as we know it wouldn't exist. Even just the Fallen Technocracy would mean that for some reason Nephandi doesn't destroy the world even though they can do it anytime they like, be it mass nuclear bombardment from the Earth's own Defense Network or more exotic like dumping Antimatter to the core of the earth. Or simply causing World War 3.

In M20? Up to you. You can say the Disparate Alliance is the only good guys and both the Tradition and the Technocracy is Nephandi.

Spoiler

M20 is all about giving the ST possibilities, even if it might be stupid.

 

[Repentant_Dragos]

M20 is all about giving the ST possibilities, even if it might be stupid.

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I do love it for that, yes (I have the book but have not read it over fully).

Thanks for giving me advice, btw!

PS: Have I asked you for help writing my Nasuverse/CofD crossover before?

 

[Maragas]

PS: Have I asked you for help writing my Nasuverse/CofD crossover before?

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Yep.

 

[Repentant_Dragos]

Yep.

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Would you prefer it if it was a Nasuverse/oWoD crossover instead?

 

[Maragas]

Would you prefer it if it was a Nasuverse/oWoD crossover instead?

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Yeah but my main reason for saying no is because I don't have the time nor want to do it. Too busy with university and my own chronicles.

 

[Maragas]

It's time to revisit Nephandi basics. Mostly because I feel like I did a bad job with the Nephandi info post I made in the past. So, time for a redux!

Nephandi, they are one of the most repulsive, pure evil beings in the World of Darkness. Only old Earthbound rivals their evil. Even Lasombra Abyss Mystics who basically worship the same thing with Nephandi can change their ways.
But not Nephandi, becoming a Nephandi will permanently change you on a fundamental level. It's crossing the Horizon of a Black Hole, it's getting sucked into a whirlpool, a spiral. There are only two choices, either you die and face Eternal Damnation or achieve the final Descent through the inverse Tree of Knowledge. (Well, with a caveat)

So, let's start our descent into Nephandic knowledge. Or at least, what they believe in even if they are not truths.

Spoiler: Start of the Descent: The Caul

The start of our descent is the Caul. A dark passageway straight to the Abyss which will transform you into a Nephandi through agony and forbidden knowledge. It is a transformation with no take-backs, your Avatar will be shredded, transformed and infused by Qlippothic energies, turned inside out. It's now not a divine seed from the Creator but a living vessel of the Void. After timeless eternities you will be spat out of Caul, still in agony but now enlightened from a cosmic unholy pleasure and sublime wisdom.

For some Nephandi, these are Forbidden Fruits of Hell, for some these are Extraterrestrial portals and for some, they are Anti-Nodes, living holes in the fabric of Creation. While they can be created with most forbidden rituals of titanic scale, most grow from nothing and Nephandi build their lairs, Labyrinths and Havens around them.

The most important thing to remember, no unwilling person can become a Nephandi. For an initiate, this is the final chance they have for saving themselves. If you are unwilling, when you enter the Caul into the Abyss it can not transform you. You will be tortured and then slowly shredded into cosmic waste but you will not be a Nephandi. Your Avatar will even survive and reincarnate after escaping the Abyss.

Lastly, the first time you descent through a Caul you will encounter Daath, the Abyssal Door to Knowledge where Enlightenment and Knowledge die. It's the Flaws in the Creation, in the Tree of Life, from the fall from Eden. The Oblivions gaping maw. When a willing participant enters a Caul, they go through it and become a Nephandi by getting cut from the Highest Principles of Divine Creation.

There is no comeback from this. You are a Nephandi. You are metaphysically and physically degraded. If you die and somehow no one destroys your Avatar and somehow escape Eternal Damnation, when it reincarnates it will still be a Nephandi, now trapped in an innocent mind to corrupt. If you have children they will also carry your degradation so even if for some reason you are not perverting them, they will be naturally (or perhaps unnaturally) inclined to become a Nephandi.

But there is a caveat;

Spoiler: Redemption? Not likely

Bordering impossible in fact. Not even Archmages or Oracles can do it.
But a God can. Being rulers of their domain in the Creation gives them unique abilities none other has. They can save someone who entered the descending spiral that is the Tree of Knowledge. But the task to prove yourself that you are deserving of it would put even Twelve Labors of Hercules to shame. He only killed his family in a fit of rage after all, you are literally an Anti-Christ who has done unspeakable things, who willing become that way.

Spoiler: The Road to the Abyss

After all of this, the living vessel of the Void Nephandi has two paths towards the Absolute, the Primordial Void. With the hate they hold for Humanity, for the Light and the Creation, they either pursue Personal Descent, the Road to Leviathan, The Path of the Primordial Beast or the Global Descent, Extinction of Reality, Humanity and of the Light. This does not mean someone who pursues Personal Descent doesn't pursue a Global Descent but rather what's your priority. If only because it's fun forsaking your humanity or ruining the world.

The jagged and selfish road to Leviathan is a cruel one, a parasitic one and ultimately shedding of the human skin for the primordial godhood. There is no place for sympathy, pity or empathy. Destroy your weaknesses, feed on the suffering of the world while forsaking virtues for it is your right and your descent into godhood.
The Global Descent is what all Nephandi is known for, The Ruination of the Creation. Whatever it be letting the Void in, turning it into a living Hell, destroying the Universe. ALL Nephandi wishes this, even the ones fully devoted to the Road of the Leviathan will gladly do it, if only because it's their right as an Initiate of the Leviathan and a glorious achievement.

Spoiler: The Diverging Crossroad: The Infernalists

Whatever you are pursuing, there is a big chance that you were turned into a Nephandi by the big three factions of Nephandi. There are others of course but The Unholy Trinity, The Old Three-Headed Dragon are the leading factions of Nephandi.

The Infernalist; The most traditional Nephandi faction. They are what you think when you think of Nephandi. Their Black Arts second to none, their mastery of Qlippoth, Ancient Rituals, Goetia and Demonology is mindboggling and their collections and Litanies to Darkness is unmatched. Unfortunately (or fortunately for us), they lost most of their ancient influence, numbers and power. They are simply not enticing enough these days, their traditions turned into a mockery in the eyes of the masses. But that doesn't mean they are gone, oh no, they are the most patient, organized and methodical Nephandi. Which is a feat when you consider what Nephandi are. Combined with their ancient power, they are still one of the heads of the dragon. Hell, they have a named Arch Nephandus unlike the other two.

Spoiler: The Diverging Crossroad: The K'llashaa

The K'llashaa; the mad prophets among the Nephandi. They are an unique blend of Nephandi and Marauders. And the most fucked up in the head which is saying something. Unlike Marauders who can't realize what is true or not, K'llashaa simply sees the world as insane and themselves as sane. Why wouldn't you sacrifice your children and eat each other at the vastness of the cosmos? Thankfully one of the good things the Inquisition did in the old days was hunting these fucks. Still, they are the prophets of the Things Man Was Not Meant to Know. They and Infernalists are polar opposites and usually not very friendly with each other. Infernalists usually at least have a pretense of civility and a dark charisma, the Mad Prophets on the other hand animalistic, primordial and well...mad.

Spoiler: The Diverging Crossroad: The Malfeans

The Malfeans: The Wyrm Worshippers who see it as the manifestation of the Void. They are among the most passionate among the Nephandi. While Infernalists want to bring their Lords to the creation and rule under them as their servants, they usually want to enjoy the benefits first and later bring them and K'llashaa are always watching over for unknowable beings outside of creation and being mad, the Malfeans are passionate about bringing the Global Descent, the extinction of Reality. Yes, they like having a lot of fun while doing it but all that matters is the End. Personal Descent is a distraction and a waste of time compared to the World's End. Not to mention the beings they follow, the Urges, the Banes, the Wyrm, is in the Creation and alongside them already. And considering Pentex, they replaced the Infernalists place in modern times. (They also have the Nephandi I hate most in the book.* A Master of Time)

Spoiler: The End of the Road, the Abyss, the Black Diamond, the Final Descent

What lies at the end of the road for Nephandi? What's the final Descent?
Well, no one knows. No Nephandi accomplished Descension. But what is possible?

At the end of the Road of the Leviathan for Personal Descent you either consume the Leviathan and become the Leviathan, achieving Self-Divinity and birth a new universe where you are the Demiurge, the Creator and the Tormentor of it or become one with the Absolute, the Void.
Global Descent is ruining the creation, simple enough I suppose. It ranges from destroying it to turning it into a Hell.

The only being in WoD who achieved one of them, both even, is the Unnamed in Time of Judgement which isn't a thing in the M20.


And that's it. I wanted to go over the Nephandi basics because I felt like I didn't manage to show you guys what Nephandi truly are. I will be keeping the old Nephandi post threadmarked but this is, in my opinion, better at clarifying what a horrific fucks Nephandi are.
Normally I would ask what kind of Nephandi would you play but even the book itself doesn't recommend playing as Nephandi.

*

Spoiler: Tanisha Adisa

 

[Maragas]

I decided to make an addendum post because I didn't have the image space remaining to fully get into it in the main post.

Here is a Nephandi's descent into the Abyss and how it affects them.

Spoiler: Tree of Knowledge

While a Nephandi makes their way into the Abyss and beyond for the Nephandic Path, they always start from Qlipha of Lilith, the highest point of the Tree of Knowledge, and down to the Thaumiel, the Annihilation.
Tree of Knowledge grows downwards compared to the Tree of Life, which grows upwards to God/Divinity/The One from Earth.
In mechanical terms, every Qlipha a Nephandi manages to go through and overcome is equal to their Arete. Someone who managed to reach The Annihilation and overcome it can Descend fully through the Abyss. Which is their Ascension equivalent.

Spoiler: The Abyssal Descent: Lilith and Gamaliel

Qlipha of Lilith, the moonlit garden of Lilith that is governed by Naamah, Fallen Angel of Carnal Pleasures — daughter of Cain and Lilith (Naamah is also sister and lover of Lilith...yeah), and Gamaliel, governed by Lilith who literally has orgies in the center of the realm, provides the foundation of Nephandic Path and temperament, almost every Nephandi has been through them. They shatter the inhibitions of Nephandi while magnifying all the sensations they experience. Including their desire and cravings. Everything from Greed to Lust to Pride to Need is amplified and runs amock.

Spoiler: The Abyssal Descent: Samael and A'arab Zaraq

Further down the tree are the realms of Samael, representing doubt, decay and governed by Samael, "the Poison of God", and A'arab Zaraq, representing war and the death that comes with it. They influence a Nephandi's personality even deeply. They become more corruptive, advocative, and full of cynicism, sarcasm, and a need to debate, to prove themselves. Mostly because these realms also boost Nephandi's internal doubts and insecurities. Nearly all Nephandi who experience them have self-confidence issues. Not to mention high levels of paranoia, the need to be secretive while seeking forbidden secrets with a passion. This also causes Nephandi to become aware of their mortality and their fear of it. Which turns into an obsession with Death. Whatever it be causing it or escaping it.

Spoiler: The Abyssal Descent: Thagirion and Golchab

Thagirion, ruled by Sorath, the Sun Demon and Belphegor, the Goetic Lord of the Dead, takes the need to be secretive and obsessive to the next levels. Even the most extroverted Nephandi turn into an obsessive loner and their temperament turn from criticizing others to aggressively focusing on their own weaknesses. This eventually causes them to crack and they become desperate with the need to connect with others until they once again retreat into solitude.
On the other hand, progressing into Golchab, the Dominion of Asmodeus, reverses this. No longer are they solitary, obsessive loners but rather the polar opposite. The Nephandi who goes through it successfully explode into their passions even if it might cause their cover to be blown. Their weaknesses burnt away, their passions ignited by Golchab, they are better than ever. If they survive it of course.

Spoiler: The Abyssal Descent: Gha'ag Sheblah

Gha'ag Sehblah, ruled by Ishtar, turns the Nephandic Passions into iron confidence. They have no need to prove anything and their fiery passions cool into a hard edge. No longer do they have a need for lovers, comrades, children or even a mission and thus can discard them at will. This includes their focus and all but the most vital instruments they use to cast their magic. Everything is discardable, everything is temporary and only slows him down while they prepare for the Abyss so he forsakes them. At this point Nephandi, most likely being an Archmage, retreats from Earth into Horizon or Deep Umbra/Universe.

Spoiler: The Abyssal Descent: Satariel

Now that they discarded everything, Satariel, The Throne of the Spider Goddess ruled by...aspects of Gods? Lucifage brother of Lucifer? Who knows? The realm itself is elusive and secret maybe the Weaver rules it.
It increases the Nephandi's need for secrecy into the extremes. They never reveal anything unless it is a part of their plan. They become unnaturally calm and still and when they act, they act with finality and lethality.

Spoiler: The Abyssal Descent: Ghagiel

Ghagiel, the pinnacle of Aggression ruled by Beelzebub, is the final realm before Thaumiel, the final step towards godhood. It inspires dominance within the Nephandi. They start to behave like Gods, disdaining everything and wanting to be the first in everything, toppling and destroying accomplishments of other people, even other Nephandi. They become consumed with the urge to defile, to destroy. Not to mention considering everybody weak.

Fun fact, the Unnamed from MTAs: Time of Judgement was most likely at this level. Especially if you consider he stopped other Nephandi from winning because he didn't want to be upstaged.

Spoiler: The Abyssal Descent: Thaumiel

Thaumiel, the Final Descent, the Pinnacle of the Tree of Knowledge, the Throne of Lucifer. "To reach it is to triumph over every internal and external obstacle, to grind each taboo to dust, to prove one's self superior to mere humanity."
This is the final realm. If you reached it and faced the demonic hordes and survived you are now one of the Dark Oracles and if you somehow seize the Throne, you have a chance to finish the Road of the Leviathan by consuming the Leviathan. Ruling over your own universe. Or becoming one with the Abyss, the Void.


And that's it. While I don't think it's going to be useful to anyone as I never even heard of someone playing a Nephandic campaign, it's nonetheless useful. At least it was for me while planing a campaign this week.
(Once again, if you are confused by this. Refer to my "there are multiple entities with the same name" explanation. For example, this Lucifer isn't the actual Lucifer from DTF unless you make him to be. Nor is it Celestine Lucifer/Satan from Umbral Realms)

 

[Maragas]

So, I was doing a Wraith post but well...I wasn't in the mood for it so I shelved it. Instead, let's look at one of the Werewolf apocalypses, particularly The Last Battleground because it's simple but fun.
I will be skipping some major bits like Tribes, some Realms and tactics because if you ever play it, not everything would be known to you. (Plus my image limit is limited)

It all starts simple, the Wyrm wants to kill Gaia for once and all and this time he ain't going to leave it to his minions. No, this time he will be personally burst into Gaia's realm and kill her. So he decides to start the Apocalypse.

To do this he needs to manifest in Umbra but for that to happen The Triatic Wyrm needs to manifest together and fuse. All three beasts, The Beast of War, The Eater of Souls and The Defiler finally work together to accomplish this.
And Garou has no idea because they are, funny enough, too focused on the material world. Pentex is just a means on the end, weakening of Gaia and all the nature spirits.

So let's start this Apocalypse, first, we need Sacrifices! To manifest each head of the Wyrm, incredible sacrifices must be made.

Spoiler: The First Sacrifice: Zapathasura

Ever wondered why Ravnos Antediluvian Zapathasure wake up? (Beyond the actual answer I mean) After all many vampires dying usually don't wake up the Antediluvians but Ravnos still woke up. In this scenario, a possible answer is given, Eater of Souls disturbed him awake as Ravnos himself was the perfect representation of Eater of Souls and its death would bring forth the Eater of Souls.
With the death of Ravnos, the first head of the Wyrm manifested as the Red Star.

Spoiler: The Second Sacrifice: Zhyzhak

Following the manifestation of Eater of Souls, the Beast of War starts his part. His chosen Zhyzhak gets a prophecy from him and starts working on it. By that I mean she takes her pack, goes to the nearest town and starts slaughtering the entire town with no regard for subtlety.
This was to get the attention of the last Gaian King, Silver Fang Albrecht who immediately gathered three battle-hardened veteran packs and went to face her to end her for once and all.

In the end, the prophecy was fulfilled, which was the Last Gaian King dying at the hands of the chosen of the Beast of War but the King took Zhyzhak with him, drowning her in the blood of her own victims.

With the death of Zhyzhak, the second sacrifice was complete. Beast of War manifested alongside Eater of Souls.

Spoiler: The Third Sacrifice: The Perfect Metis

Lastly, the Defiler needed to manifest for the Wyrm to be complete. So what better sacrifice is there for it than the Perfect Metis? Supposedly savior or destroyer of the Garou?
It was captured and tortured over three weeks with every torture and horror Black Spiral Dancers knew and in the end, the only thing left was a twisted and agonized, bloodied, stained and defiled corpse. The Perfect Sacrifice for the Defiler.

Spoiler: The Wyrm Manifests

With a roar, The Triatic Wyrm fuses together and the universe notices. Planets shake in fear as their defenses are swept away but Rorg, the Incarna of the Asteroid Belt, the Hunter gathers his courage and faces him.
With a single breath the Wyrm burns Rorg's face, along with the Realm of the Asteroids as Rorg's arrows fail to penetrate the hide of the Wyrm and bounce off it. (Which are meteors by the way, the same as the meteor that devastated Earth in "Ragnarok" ToJ scenario)
After that, the Wyrm devastates Rorg, so much that parts of him fall down to Earth from his bloodied body.

Finished with Rorg, the Wyrm gleefully enters the Realm of Eshtarra, an Avatar of Gaia and tortures her.

Now, as a side note, let's go over several significant side events.

Spoiler: The Legendary Realm: Destroyed

Remember how Set cursed the Silent Striders and destroyed all of their Ancestors? How tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of years of history went puff?
Well, the Wyrm basically genocided the Garou's ancestors. The Greatest Heroes of Garou fell one by one until all that was left were ruins, dust and corpses. They were systematically abused, tortured, debased, defiled and humiliated.

Yeah.

Spoiler: Arcadia: Faded

Well with life is dying on a mass scale not even Nightmares are able to find strength. Fantasy and Dreams require life and as dreams fade away, so do Fae. Even the strongest trolls lose their strength, the siren's songs are just very pretty songs and slowly nothing but mundane objects remain in Arcadia.


Now, you might be asking "What the hell Gaia is doing to counteract this?" Well...

Spoiler: Pangaea: Diseased or "What do you mean Gaia is out of action?"

Pangaea is a pure expression of Gaia and it's a significant part of Her. In fact, the defender of the realm, the Elder Serpent has her mind.
She is currently not available for help because apparently the Wyrm is channeling Aizen and is 100 steps ahead of everybody and poisoned her soul, heart and mind. Right now she is slowly losing her mind and if the Elder Serpent dies, she will be comatose forever.

Spoiler: Image for Reference (Yes I am proud of it God damn it!)

But what about Gaia Herself? Where is she? At this rate, we will have to go and look for other Celestines to beg for help.

Spoiler: Summer Country

...yep, we should have gone with Helios or maybe Gods, Zeus has a great track record with many-headed beasts of apocalypse. Or Shiva, he is an even better option than Helios or Zeus.

Anyway, Summer Realm is the most secret and secure realm of Gaia and within it, Gaia sleeps. It should have been impossible for anyone, let alone the Wyrm to find it but well, the Abyss is nothing if persistent with the attempts to exterminate life, creation and light and so it's hunters, Midnight Shadows, are capable of finding anything in existence. Which includes the Summer Realm and Gaia. Now that's some cooperation between Bad Guys.

Gaia herself is too wounded and weak to help the players against the Wyrm, even if the player can even save her from the dozens of Midnight Shadows. Which is incredibly funny if you consider that her Avatar Pangaea* is strong enough to nearly match the Wyrm if you manage to cure her.

So, what do you do as the players? What does Fera do in this scenario?
Gather allies, fix the problems you could fix and in the end, use everything you complied together in the Last Battlefield. If it isn't enough you die, the world dies and the Wyrm wins. If it is enough, you will still most likely die and Gaia will be in shambles but at least will survive. Or it might be both and everybody dies, the Wyrm and Gaia.
But in the end, it will be a fricking awesome battle to top all other battles as you rage across for one last time. I especially like this speech.

Spoiler: Starting the Last Battle

And that is a general overview of The Last Battleground of WTA Time of Judgement. It was a fun ride. It was particularly laugh-worthy how the Wyrm was hilariously ahead of everybody.


*
Yes, I know everything is optional but I at least expect coherency inside the scenario itself, especially when even MTA and VTM managed to do it. Not to mention if we don't take these as answers to what happened to those realms, then what happened to those realms?

 

[Gracy]

So how was Zapathasura awakened?

 

[Gedou_Meta]

The Wyrm came over and gave the sleeping kin-slayer a wake up call. It probably sounded something like this. "Rend. Slaughter. Devour your childer. For it is now and now alone that you may surmount all difficulties and become More, O Warden of Illusions."

And then the maker of the Ravnos was awake, hungry, and there was only one path forward from then on.

 

[Rakdos92]

The Wyrm came over and gave the sleeping kin-slayer a wake up call. It probably sounded something like this. "Rend. Slaughter. Devour your childer. For it is now and now alone that you may surmount all difficulties and become More, O Warden of Illusions."

And then the maker of the Ravnos was awake, hungry, and there was only one path forward from then on.

Click to shrink...

I see you enjoy Digital Devil Saga. Nice!

 

[Maragas]

So how was Zapathasura awakened?

Click to shrink...

The most canon answer?

Ravnos and Kuei-jin fought over in the India. Lots of Ravnos died. This awakened Ravnos Methuselahs who proceed to kick ass but had to eat lots of young Ravnos to feed themselves.

This awakened Zapathasura the Ravnos Antediluvian who ate most of the Methuselahs.

 

[shadowdice]

Zapathasura

My Hindu friend greatly enjoyed me using Bollywood movies as an inspiration for the scene of him showing up during the Ravnos v Kuei Jin war

His general response was. "Yes, this fits."

Zapathasura summoning a wave of animals given his fortitude and punching them out of existence.

The player hadn't been playing as a ravnos. But was very happy about over the top Bollywood action where reason and logic are destroyed by a guy backhanding lightning strikes.

 

[gale]

Zapathasura

My Hindu friend greatly enjoyed me using Bollywood movies as an inspiration for the scene of him showing up during the Ravnos v Kuei Jin war

His general response was. "Yes, this fits."

Zapathasura summoning a wave of animals given his fortitude and punching them out of existence.

The player hadn't been playing as a ravnos. But was very happy about over the top Bollywood action where reason and logic are destroyed by a guy backhanding lightning strikes.

Click to shrink...

Guessing no Union to ruin the fun this time?

 

[shadowdice]

Guessing no Union to ruin the fun this time?

Click to shrink...

He stepped into a sub dimension to dodge the sun laser

because Chimerstry

The Union is run by the sapient Avatar of one of Lilith's kids who got cut off by the mage body having become a vampire and is trying to use a roundabout method of undoing the vampirism and fusing with the original self again due to magical telenovela love triangle with himself (had an avatar twin, was very upset by her staying with vampire version of him)

Currently there is a coalition of Antes working under a second Gen who took control of the Sabbat and raised Enoch (city) out of the underworld while working with Baba Yaga vs Lilith and her children/worshippers vs Union

The players are in the first group and the Tremere player ate an Aralu on accident (and succeeded in not dying) before getting in a punch up with Harold Zettler (dark thaumaturge working in Pentex) only to massively succeed in both burning up Zettler's personality and absorbing all of his memories.

So the Tremere player can make others think she is Zettler in a new body, and has a lot of interest in his psychic programs.

Said Tremere player is a fanatical Cain worshiper who killed Zettler on the basis of his Dark Thaumaturgy. She also ended up gaining a split personality due to absorbing Dementation.

That player has essentially made a new Clan of Death due to having diablerized a lot of people (and thus mutating her vitae), reading one of Cappadocius's books, and pumping up Necromancy to 5. So now all of her Childer have Necromancy as an in clan discipline instead of Thaumaturgy. She hasn't learned this yet.

 

[gale]

He stepped into a sub dimension to dodge the sun laser

because Chimerstry

Click to shrink...

You can't really use that when your are frenzied. It's actually part of the power itself.

 

[Ragura]

Storytellers Vault has a New Years Sale (until Sunday) https://www.storytellersvault.com/rpg_newyear.php

That player has essentially made a new Clan of Death due to having diablerized a lot of people (and thus mutating her vitae), reading one of Cappadocius's books, and pumping up Necromancy to 5. So now all of her Childer have Necromancy as an in clan discipline instead of Thaumaturgy. She hasn't learned this yet.

Click to shrink...

Awesome! What is the rest of her Clan like? Classic Tremere package, or something different? What is their Clan Weakness?

 

[shadowdice]

Storytellers Vault has a New Years Sale (until Sunday) https://www.storytellersvault.com/rpg_newyear.php


Awesome! What is the rest of her Clan like? Classic Tremere package, or something different? What is their Clan Weakness?

Click to shrink...

Presence, Auspex, Necromancy

Good for cult leaders like her

You can't really use that when your are frenzied. It's actually part of the power itself.

Click to shrink...

There is a level 7 animalism ability to enter and leave frenzy at will

Including if it is involuntary

 

[Ragura]

Presence, Auspex, Necromancy

Good for cult leaders like her

Click to shrink...

"We command the living and the dead."

 

[shadowdice]

"We command the living and the dead."

Click to shrink...

The PC spent a long amount of time turning kindred fashion mainstream, specifically Noddist fashion, and was involved in a project that marketed "cleaned up" versions of paths of enlightenment to the masses in a book about philosophy.

Most of her interactions with mortals were getting them into her herd of models.

additionally

Ate a Brujah Setite, ate a Malkavian, ate a Nagaraja, ate an antediluvian

She has eaten more kindred than any other member of the party. I have hidden mechanics for her addiction and she is getting far less sustenance from mortals now.

Because that's what happens when you diablerize up the food chain

 

[shadowdice]

Simply due to the already weird spread of Assamites disciplines and Queitus having 3 versions, I have somewhat warmed to the idea of it being blood thaumaturgy

though that then leads to me own issues in how blood thaumaturgy is run with discipline limits in old vampire

less said about V5 blood thaumaturgy the better

And for my campaign

the players gave Métis babies to Nazi mad scientist sorcerers in exchange for nuclear warheads

they nuked Mexico City to kill Shaitan

And killed 8 million people (including Shaitan as he rolled poorly)

Odin took over a player's body during this and sacrificed all the souls to himself

Ascending him

Odin The Oathbreaker has devoured several fallen and has access to their Lore now

 

[Maragas]

And killed 8 million people (including Shaitan as he rolled poorly)

Click to shrink...

At least he died the way he would have liked.
Taking down lots of innocents with him and by the way of the Wyrm*. Which he also worships along with all other infernal shit he does.

*Because for some reason Radiation is a kind of Wyrm corruption. (Well, not for some reason, Nuclear is Wyld and Weaver Spirit while it's byproduct Radiation is Wyrm Spirit. So technically it's the Triat being the Triat and sharing tons of confusing functions.)