Just a Phase [Worm]

[RogueInquisitor]

Well that runs into the same problem Armstrong and Guass have when trying to get her to do anything Wards related. That being Taylor can't participate in most things until after power testing which is still completely voluntary. I can't imagine that a Wards camp even one for unruly Wards would be allowed to operate outside of the program's own safety requirements. And another reason being that Taylor would just straight up refuse to participate in Wards summer camp because of her current predisposition to any Wards activities to begin with.

Click to shrink...

Taylor: "So, you want to ship me to a remote, isolated area with a bunch of would-be murderers, plus their cleaners, fixers, and enablers. How stupid and/or suicidal do you think I am?"

PRT Agent: "This is a PRT-run camp for Wards-"

Taylor: "Exactly what I just said. I already survived one murder attempt by Wards, I'm not going to hand you another shot on a silver platter."

Jim: "I believe my client has made her position quite explicit, and this camp isn't compulsory under her contract or any applicable regulations. If that is all, we will be leaving."

 

[iamnuff]

I don't normally read Omakes (they tend to vary in quality and tone wildly compared to the original story) but the idea of some idiot trying to get Taylor to sit in on a school bullying seminar has dug into my brain.

Anybody remember Taylor's 'Drugs are great' speech from the wards days?

"Don't bother telling the teachers, or your parents, or the police. Nobody gives enough of a shit to stop it unless you trigger, in which case people will be tripping over themselves to pretend that they cared all along, because now that you have superhuman powers, you're useful, and they can try to turn you into a child-soldier."

"Uh, Phase, is there something you want to tell us?"

"No comment."

Although Skitter's take might well be "Not everybody gets parahuman powers from a traumatic event, so you might need to bring a gun to school. Sure, you'll get arrested but you're all minors so as long as you don't kill indiscriminately, probably just get juvie. Juvie probably won't be so bad. Especially if everybody knows what happened to the last person who fucked with you."

a bit more 'rule through intimidation and violence' than Phase would probably be comfortable with. Unlike her canon incarnation, she was never that person.

 

[libertinlary]

I
a bit more 'rule through intimidation and violence' than Phase would probably be comfortable with. Unlike her canon incarnation, she was never that person.

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Good old mac said it best I believe

"employing cruel means were unable to hold on to their state even in peaceful times, not to speak of the uncertain times of war. I believe this depends on whether cruelty be badly or well used. Those cruelties are well used, if it is permitted to speak well of evil, that are carried out in a single stroke, done out of necessity to protect oneself and then are not continued, but are instead converted into the greatest possible benefits for the subjects. Those cruelties are badly used that, although few at the outset, increase with the passing of time, instead of disappearing. Those who follow the first method can remedy their standing both with God and with men, as Agathocles did. The others cannot possibly maintain their position."

 

[Ack]

The are a bunch of criminals. That's why they focus on PR to the exclusion of all else.

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Technically speaking, so long as they abide by the legislated laws of the land, they aren't.

This isn't to say that the laws (or the people who follow them) are moral, or even right, but it's perfectly possible to become a criminal for a totally moral act.

Unless you can prove that they are breaking any laws, the PRT are assholes, but they're not criminals.

No clue. Depends on what the camp actually is on paper. Like we know Sophia got sent there to try to clean up her act after getting into the wards on probation

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Pretty sure that's fanon, unless you have a reference quote.

 

[Highlord]

Pretty sure that's fanon, unless you have a reference quote.

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Boot Camp-style training is known to be hit or miss at best with young teenagers, and extremely psychologically dangerous as standard. Putting a 13-16 year old in such conditions rarely yields good results, and this gets proven time and again with the "training camps" garbage parents send their kids when they discover raising children isn't like it's shown on TV. The poor kids "graduating" from such facilities are much more often than not utterly broken boys and girls that are completely terrified of adults and spen their time being as silent and unseen as possible. Which is, of course, what their worthless genetic donors want.

In Worm, putting a parahuman teenager that's already psychologically damaged in such a situation is asking for a violent and probably deadly explosion.

Which is probably what costacunt wants anyway. So yeah, I can see her leading a "training camp" for those parahuman teens that dare not bend the knee hard or fast enough.

In the case of this story it would backfire hilariously, and probably end up with costacunt dying earlier than in Worm proper, and in a much more graphic and amusing manner. I say go for it.

 

[The Dude]

"employing cruel means were unable to hold on to their state even in peaceful times, not to speak of the uncertain times of war. I believe this depends on whether cruelty be badly or well used. Those cruelties are well used, if it is permitted to speak well of evil, that are carried out in a single stroke, done out of necessity to protect oneself and then are not continued, but are instead converted into the greatest possible benefits for the subjects. Those cruelties are badly used that, although few at the outset, increase with the passing of time, instead of disappearing. Those who follow the first method can remedy their standing both with God and with men, as Agathocles did. The others cannot possibly maintain their position."

Click to shrink...

I had to go look up the source of that quote, because I couldn't figure out who "mac" was and I felt like this quote absolutely had to predate the the idea of utilitarianism, since the description of "well used cruelty" absolutely fits the concept... and, wouldn't you know it, Machiavelli is 16th century while utilitarianism was really codified as a concept in the 18th century.

In Worm, putting a parahuman teenager that's already psychologically damaged in such a situation is asking for a violent and probably deadly explosion.

Click to shrink...

In Taylor's case, it'd be firmly in Second Trigger territory if they did manage to make it stick. I've really gotta wonder what an ST for a power already as broad scale and jailbroken as hers would be.

 

[Ack]

Boot Camp-style training is known to be hit or miss at best with young teenagers, and extremely psychologically dangerous as standard. Putting a 13-16 year old in such conditions rarely yields good results, and this gets proven time and again with the "training camps" garbage parents send their kids when they discover raising children isn't like it's shown on TV. The poor kids "graduating" from such facilities are much more often than not utterly broken boys and girls that are completely terrified of adults and spen their time being as silent and unseen as possible. Which is, of course, what their worthless genetic donors want.

In Worm, putting a parahuman teenager that's already psychologically damaged in such a situation is asking for a violent and probably deadly explosion.

Which is probably what costacunt wants anyway. So yeah, I can see her leading a "training camp" for those parahuman teens that dare not bend the knee hard or fast enough.

In the case of this story it would backfire hilariously, and probably end up with costacunt dying earlier than in Worm proper, and in a much more graphic and amusing manner. I say go for it.

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Given that neither canon!Taylor nor canon!Sophia went there, it would seem to be the case that either the Wards need to be more than 'troublesome' or they need to volunteer for it.

 

[Highlord]

Given that neither canon!Taylor nor canon!Sophia went there, it would seem to be the case that either the Wards need to be more than 'troublesome' or they need to volunteer for it.

Click to shrink...

Agreed. Taylor getting such treatment would require the likes of canon Tagg or most versions of Piggot being put in charge of her situation.

Although Skitter's take might well be "Not everybody gets parahuman powers from a traumatic event, so you might need to bring a gun to school. Sure, you'll get arrested but you're all minors so as long as you don't kill indiscriminately, probably just get juvie. Juvie probably won't be so bad. Especially if everybody knows what happened to the last person who fucked with you."

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Amusingly enough, it's only in the last forty years or so that something near this mindset stopped being true.

Somebody abused or otherwise pushed you hard enough , it turned into open violence behind the school, and did so long as respect had to be forced. It hews very closely to how the human subconscious works. Its only after crying helicopter moms defending their precious little angels started getting media attention that people began thinking getting ones ass kicked for being a shithead was somehow wrong.

 

[Dakkah]

He and everyone he is actually responsible for are largely blameless here. The failures of the PRT are actually pretty specific to the ENE branch under Piggot.

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You could be right if Armstrong and co weren't complicit in the cover up, which turned a local issue into a regional one. The way they handled her involuntary recruitment didn't help either.* She has literally no reason to cooperate with the PRT in any way or form, not only because she has nothing to gain from it, but because it would be rewarding them for screwing her over.

She is nothing more than a potentially useful power to them, and she is well aware of that fact. As they have not been hiding that, at all.

Spoiler: *

I had long since tuned out the discussion my dad was having with Director Armstrong while they signed paperwork. Gauss watched me with a worried frown on her face, which I had also ignored. The Director, to his credit, had asked me my opinion of this whole process when we started, but then predictably ignored it and started helping my dad fill out the paperwork.

Dad, also predictably, didn't listen at all.

Every time he flipped a sheet over it was like someone took a razor to my ears. I had made it perfectly clear that this was unnecessary, that I didn't want to associate with the PRT, and that I didn't want to be abandoned in a far-off city to mollify his twisted fear of me getting hurt. It wasn't even about my safety, I had realized — it was entirely that he didn't want to go through the pain of losing me.

So, despite my pointed insistence to the contrary, I was about to become the newest member of the Boston Wards. Dad initially wanted me to become a Ward in Brockton Bay, but I told him flat-out that I would rather take my chances with the gangs than spend another minute in the presence of those two sociopaths. Everything at school suddenly made sense after my first disastrous meet and greet.

And of course Piggot had to be more interested in telling dad nice things about Boston, 'just an hour away,' instead of acknowledging any of my complaints beyond 'we will investigate.' At least the PRT covered the hospital bills.

And as the final fuck-you cherry on top of the shitshow sundae my life had become, dad was technically giving up legal guardianship of me to the state. I didn't know if he asked for that or if the PRT twisted his arm somehow, but I suspected that in his haste to 'protect' me, he didn't grasp all of the implications. At the very least, it would make it easier to never talk to him again.

My soul-searching was cut off when I saw dad take the packet and flip it closed. He had a relieved smile on his face, and Armstrong was telling him various comforting words that I didn't believe in the slightest. Gauss was giving me a hopeful smile, which I returned with a flat glare. "Well, congratulations, Taylor!" she said with a smile.

I rolled my eyes. "Just show me to my room."

I stood up and started for the door, but dad intercepted me. "Taylor…" he began. He opened his arms awkwardly to give me a hug.

My angry glare stopped him short. "Mom would be ashamed of you," I said, voice arctic. Then I activated my power and stepped through him. I ignored his pained whine from behind me and strode down the hallway towards the elevator.

Gauss caught up with me just as the doors were able to close. She dashed into the elevator using her power, and I mashed the door closed button several times.

"I understand that you're upset," she began.

"Were you even listening at the beginning of that meeting?" I snapped. "Two Wards from back home tormented me for two years, culminating in my trigger event. The school administration didn't listen to me during the bullying, the PRT didn't listen when I told them about the locker, my dad didn't listen when I told him I didn't want to be here. And now you and the Director are two more links in a chain of people that don't give a shit about me."

Gauss rolled back on her heels slightly. She was tall, considerably taller than me, so her slight sway was very noticeable. "I think if you give us a chance—"

"I did. Two years of chances," I spat. "For that, I got to spend hours trapped in a tiny box filled with rotting tampons."

 

[Garreon]

You could be right if Armstrong and co weren't complicit in the cover up, which turned a local issue into a regional one. The way they handled her involuntary recruitment didn't help either.* She has literally no reason to cooperate with the PRT in any way or form, not only because she has nothing to gain from it, but because it would be rewarding them for screwing her over.

She is nothing more than a potentially useful power to them, and she is well aware of that fact. As they have not been hiding that, at all.

Spoiler: *

I had long since tuned out the discussion my dad was having with Director Armstrong while they signed paperwork. Gauss watched me with a worried frown on her face, which I had also ignored. The Director, to his credit, had asked me my opinion of this whole process when we started, but then predictably ignored it and started helping my dad fill out the paperwork.

Dad, also predictably, didn't listen at all.

Every time he flipped a sheet over it was like someone took a razor to my ears. I had made it perfectly clear that this was unnecessary, that I didn't want to associate with the PRT, and that I didn't want to be abandoned in a far-off city to mollify his twisted fear of me getting hurt. It wasn't even about my safety, I had realized — it was entirely that he didn't want to go through the pain of losing me.

So, despite my pointed insistence to the contrary, I was about to become the newest member of the Boston Wards. Dad initially wanted me to become a Ward in Brockton Bay, but I told him flat-out that I would rather take my chances with the gangs than spend another minute in the presence of those two sociopaths. Everything at school suddenly made sense after my first disastrous meet and greet.

And of course Piggot had to be more interested in telling dad nice things about Boston, 'just an hour away,' instead of acknowledging any of my complaints beyond 'we will investigate.' At least the PRT covered the hospital bills.

And as the final fuck-you cherry on top of the shitshow sundae my life had become, dad was technically giving up legal guardianship of me to the state. I didn't know if he asked for that or if the PRT twisted his arm somehow, but I suspected that in his haste to 'protect' me, he didn't grasp all of the implications. At the very least, it would make it easier to never talk to him again.

My soul-searching was cut off when I saw dad take the packet and flip it closed. He had a relieved smile on his face, and Armstrong was telling him various comforting words that I didn't believe in the slightest. Gauss was giving me a hopeful smile, which I returned with a flat glare. "Well, congratulations, Taylor!" she said with a smile.

I rolled my eyes. "Just show me to my room."

I stood up and started for the door, but dad intercepted me. "Taylor…" he began. He opened his arms awkwardly to give me a hug.

My angry glare stopped him short. "Mom would be ashamed of you," I said, voice arctic. Then I activated my power and stepped through him. I ignored his pained whine from behind me and strode down the hallway towards the elevator.

Gauss caught up with me just as the doors were able to close. She dashed into the elevator using her power, and I mashed the door closed button several times.

"I understand that you're upset," she began.

"Were you even listening at the beginning of that meeting?" I snapped. "Two Wards from back home tormented me for two years, culminating in my trigger event. The school administration didn't listen to me during the bullying, the PRT didn't listen when I told them about the locker, my dad didn't listen when I told him I didn't want to be here. And now you and the Director are two more links in a chain of people that don't give a shit about me."

Gauss rolled back on her heels slightly. She was tall, considerably taller than me, so her slight sway was very noticeable. "I think if you give us a chance—"

"I did. Two years of chances," I spat. "For that, I got to spend hours trapped in a tiny box filled with rotting tampons."

Click to shrink...

Yeah, people here saying Taylor should at least try to listen to Armstrong and Co when they didn't even listen to her in the first place. Oh sure, he asked her.....and then proceeded to ignore her. And he still is, no matter how much of a soft sell he is trying to do. Heck she was essentially sold to the PRT by Danny. He may be her biological father but, as far as the law is concerned, the PRT are her guardians and thus they have all power over her.
Armstrong isn't giving Taylor any space to lick her wounds and find a center, she sees the PRT Building as a Prison with her being an Inmate, she says so after she goes out to buy some toiletries, has to shrug off a precog attempt, from one of the Wards no less (It was Roulette i think), and comes back to find 3 Protectorate in plain clothes about to go searching for her.
The only person that actually listened and paid any attention to what she had to say was her YG rep.
It has been, at most, 2-3 weeks since she was left in Boston. All they have done is pressure her left and right, and the fact Washington is breathing down Armstrong's neck doesn't help at all. Again she needs space, not being made to attend mandatory Pizza parties or being paraded like an animal in a Zoo. She needs to be away from everything that is pushing all her buttons so she can relax......but since they decided to treat her as a Flight Risk they are keeping her in base instead of rooming with her Handler or have an off base domicile or apartment in a place where Troopers can keep an eye on her.
Give her space and make sure she does the bare minimum, aka go to school, do her homework and study, eat her meals and go to therapy.

 

[Dur'id the Druid]

Only read to 1.4. But got the numb to the uncaring world and endure until things get better perfectly. Really bad spiritual and head space to be in, but that's what happens after long time of abuse and isolation.

 

[RogueInquisitor]

You could be right if Armstrong and co weren't complicit in the cover up, which turned a local issue into a regional one.

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How are they complicit? They aren't able to investigate, it's out of their jurisdiction, and the ENE department is officially aware and "investigating." Taylor perceives them as complicit, and not without reason, but that doesn't mean she's right.

The way they handled her involuntary recruitment didn't help either.*

Click to shrink...

Unfortunately, as a minor, once Danny has decided she's joining Wards, Taylor's opinion is legally irrelevant. Armstrong isn't going to make promises he's in no position to keep, and recognizes Taylor isn't happy, but is probably expecting her to make the best of the situation she's stuck in. Unfortunately for him, Taylor is far to stubborn for that.

Gauss is an insensitive ass though.

She has literally no reason to cooperate with the PRT in any way or form, not only because she has nothing to gain from it, but because it would be rewarding them for screwing her over.

She is nothing more than a potentially useful power to them, and she is well aware of that fact. As they have not been hiding that, at all.

Click to shrink...

Agreed.

 

[libertinlary]

Unfortunately, as a minor, once Danny has decided she's joining Wards, Taylor's opinion is legally irrelevant. Armstrong isn't going to make promises he's in no position to keep, and recognizes Taylor isn't happy, but is probably expecting her to make the best of the situation she's stuck in. Unfortunately for him, Taylor is far to stubborn for that.

Gauss is an insensitive ass though.

Agreed.

Click to shrink...

Taylor's opinion matters a hell of a lot actually in legal cases the will of the child is considered in custody battles. But more salient to this point he could theoretically look into having her emancipated so she get to actually have a voice in her on life and there by undercut her resentment to him and the Boston prt. Some said earlier Maybe he can have power testing but instead of it counting he can write a contract with Taylor that says it doesn't count for the program she has Jim to force the issue if he try's to renig on the contract or maybe he can leave Taylor the fuck alone for a few weeks and allow her to heal on her own time frame, or a hundred other things he could do instead of trying to blunt for trauma the round peg through the square hole

 

[Zernoc56]

Literally one of the few things that would get Taylor interested in getting with the program is if on live TV Armsmaster and Piggot personally perp-walked Sophia and Emma into a Birdcage transport before immediately resigning from their positions and retiring.

Pretty much nothing else would show that the PRT is getting it's act together and cleaning up all the shit that's been smeared all throughout the agency.

 

[Nikas_Zekeval]

How are they complicit? They aren't able to investigate, it's out of their jurisdiction, and the ENE department is officially aware and "investigating." Taylor perceives them as complicit, and not without reason, but that doesn't mean she's right.

Click to shrink...

I'm sure the PRT has an Inspector General like position. That is who you report to, say when another Director transfers an alleged victim of assault by two of her Wards. At least to drop a note that "Director PRT ENE presented me this transfer without full disclosure of the situation, that looks like it might be witness tampering by getting the primary victim out of town and under my jurisdiction, and away from any potential investigation. Can you double check this?"

Unfortunately, as a minor, once Danny has decided she's joining Wards, Taylor's opinion is legally irrelevant. Armstrong isn't going to make promises he's in no position to keep, and recognizes Taylor isn't happy, but is probably expecting her to make the best of the situation she's stuck in. Unfortunately for him, Taylor is far to stubborn for that.

Click to shrink...

By the letter, probably. But being a Ward, unless under a plea deal, is supposed to be voluntary. Having a Ward innocent of any crime forced in is a bad look when it leaks out. Also as a practical matter, you need at least a minimum buy from the prospective Ward. Otherwise you get what you have here, classic conscript syndrome, "They might be able to force me to be here, but you can't force me to do anything or act like I care."

But by forcing her in, they lost any parental influence to get Taylor to comply, and patting her on the head and saying "Things couldn't have been that bad" and flat out ignoring her complaints Boston lost any moral persuasion they might have been able to employ. Let me appropriate a Princess Bride Quote:

Lily: "I can give you my word as a Ward?"
Taylor: "No good. I've known too many Wards."
Lily: "Is there any way you'll trust me?"
Taylor: "Nothing comes to mind."

Which as FirstSelector is showing, not getting Taylor's consent, even if not required by the letter of regulations, is fucking toxic to team cohesion. There is a reason the US military went full volunteer in the 70s. They figured out that filling out the numbers with people that didn't want to be there and were doing the barest minimum before they were able to leave was less effective than a smaller force full of people who willingly joined. Taylor would be less harmful to the Boston Wards housed off base with a PRT adult guardian, even if she never formally joined them.

However Armstrong and Gauss seem stuck on the idea they can force socialization to get Taylor to get with the program. Hence the on base only housing option, which makes it hard for her to have non-Ward friends. Because she can't exactly give a reciprocal invitation to visit her home after going to theirs. And all the acts to force her interaction with the Wards. But they can't seem to connect why the girl who was repeatedly mauled by dogs doesn't want anything to do with the "cute puppies" they keep shoving in her face. And that keeping her in a house full of them isn't socializing her to them, it is leaving her constantly on edge waiting for them to attack like before.

No one in Boston, outside of Lily who is at least entertaining the possibility, seems to want to believe things were at least as bad in Brockton as Taylor says. To extend the analogy they think "a little nip" when Taylor says a dog repeatedly bit her, ignoring her mauled arm, and demands she plays with their dogs.

 

[KingCrimson1081]

Which as FirstSelector is showing, is fucking toxic to team cohesion. There is a reason the US military went full volunteer in the 70s. They figured out that filling out the numbers with people that didn't want to be there and were doing the barest minimum before they were able to leave was less effective than a smaller force full of people who willingly joined. Taylor would be less harmful to the Boston Wards housed off base with a PRT adult guardian, and even if she never formally joined them.

Click to shrink...

It also shows how toxic it is to the ENE Wards team with them now knowing that two of their teammates bullied and tortured an innocent girl into triggering and suffered no punishment, and instead they all got punished because their boss refused to do anything regarding the situation.

Hell probably the reason why Gallant was the only one willing to talk to Emma in the interlude was because all the other Wards who actually went through a trigger event know how bad Emma and Sophia had to be to cause Taylor to go through one and thus refuse to associate with them. I honestly want to see more of what is going on back in Brockton due to this in future chapters and potential omakes now that I am thinking of it.

 

[BF110C4]

Taylor's opinion matters a hell of a lot actually in legal cases the will of the child is considered in custody battles. But more salient to this point he could theoretically look into having her emancipated so she get to actually have a voice in her on life and there by undercut her resentment to him and the Boston prt. Some said earlier Maybe he can have power testing but instead of it counting he can write a contract with Taylor that says it doesn't count for the program she has Jim to force the issue if he try's to renig on the contract or maybe he can leave Taylor the fuck alone for a few weeks and allow her to heal on her own time frame, or a hundred other things he could do instead of trying to blunt for trauma the round peg through the square hole

Click to shrink...

Even without emancipation Taylor can get a guardian ad litem with the express purpose of giving a follow up to Taylor's allegations of parental abuse (which the PRT is obligated by law to report to CPS), evaluate the viability of a lawsuit against the PRT for their negligence supervising a juvenile offender of a felony assault case on probation and asking to be removed from the Wards due to the incapability of her father to take rational decisions due to clinical depression at the time he elected to sign her up to the program.

 

[Dakkah]

How are they complicit? They aren't able to investigate, it's out of their jurisdiction, and the ENE department is officially aware and "investigating." Taylor perceives them as complicit, and not without reason, but that doesn't mean she's right.

Click to shrink...

By not reporting the ENE's conflict of interest in this "Alleged" kerfuffle.

By playing along with their "Big brain move to get rid of the victim, while trying to put a boot to her neck."

Being willfully ignorant and burying his head in the sand won't save him from this fallout. (Unless ofcourse they permanently silence Taylor, Jim etc.)

 

[BF110C4]

By not reporting the ENE's conflict of interest in this "Alleged" kerfuffle.

By playing along with their "Big brain move to get rid of the victim, while trying to put a boot to her neck."

Being willfully ignorant and burying his head in the sand won't save him from this fallout. (Unless of course they permanently silence Taylor, Jim etc.)

Click to shrink...

Legally speaking they can't report about being a crime or unethical act from the ENE Protectorate until they break at least a law or internal regulation, and normal police investigations can take months to years so a two month delay in an assault case done in the civilian identity of two Wards won't lit any alarms worth of an internal affairs investigation yet, in six month however it might be a different matter. As for silencing a witness, moving her to a different state is a more problematic matter, but it becomes an issue only of the BB DA asks for a deposition or interview and they try to deny or stall the petition, likewise it becomes a crime the moment Taylor ask for permission to travel to BB to talk with the police about her ongoing criminal case investigation to volunteer her own deposition and is denied without an alternate way of revising her case such as making a deposition in front of a lawyer in Boston and sending it to BB.

Taylor, while smart, is not a lawyer with the right training to navigate the complexity of her current situation and demand that her actual rights are respected. So while she has been remarkable about finding loopholes that prevent the Protectorate (the PRT actually doesn't have direct jurisdiction) from applying most of their regulations against her she won't be able to actually assemble a proper complain to the proper authorities about the abuse she received from the ENE PRT/Protectorate, different from the treatment she receives from the Boston Wards office which is by the letter (and let's be fair, spirit) of the law not abuse but is a significant pressure she doesn't want or need at this point in time.

 

[Praetrunco]

Unfortunately, as a minor, once Danny has decided she's joining Wards, Taylor's opinion is legally irrelevant. Armstrong isn't going to make promises he's in no position to keep, and recognizes Taylor isn't happy, but is probably expecting her to make the best of the situation she's stuck in. Unfortunately for him, Taylor is far to stubborn for that.

Click to shrink...

Actually, her opinion is the only one that matters, given that she is not a probative ward. She is their charge, not their property.

Armstrong's promises would be irrelevant, especially as long as he denies her any agency whatsoever. The only thing he's entitled to is the ability to provide her with what he's legally required to, which does not consist of anything hero related unless she wishes it. Until she willfully decides to undergo power testing, she is not a true, actual, Ward. This should be evident enough by the fact they had to brute-force and jury-rig the system to accept a temporary id as if it were permanent, seeing as there is no permanent id for those not fully processed, which given the attitude of almost all of them, comes off more as not drinking the kool-aid. Any program that criminally mismanaged deserves absolutely nothing from anyone, least of all minors that are not bound there by plea agreements, even without considering the fact they're deliberately antagonizing her by treating her like a slave who wasn't just recently violated repeatedly.

Refusing to satisfy someone else's self-interest, especially when they're your guardian's boss and you're essentially a foster child, is not stubbornness in the sense of being contumacious, but of being perseverant in the face of ignominy.

Legally speaking they can't report about being a crime or unethical act from the ENE Protectorate until they break at least a law or internal regulation, and normal police investigations can take months to years so a two month delay in an assault case done in the civilian identity of two Wards won't lit any alarms worth of an internal affairs investigation yet, in six month however it might be a different matter. As for silencing a witness, moving her to a different state is a more problematic matter, but it becomes an issue only of the BB DA asks for a deposition or interview and they try to deny or stall the petition, likewise it becomes a crime the moment Taylor ask for permission to travel to BB to talk with the police about her ongoing criminal case investigation to volunteer her own deposition and is denied without an alternate way of revising her case such as making a deposition in front of a lawyer in Boston and sending it to BB.

Click to shrink...

Considering the mountain of paperwork they have simply by rote handling of the crisis point response (nevermind the inherent emergency responders, etc), you have no real meat on the bones of that argument. Even if Piggot stonewalls them on physically receiving evidence, they can still lay the groundwork to substantiating or disproving it regardless. You know... their jobs?

The three monkeys don't apply.

Taylor, while smart, is not a lawyer with the right training to navigate the complexity of her current situation and demand that her actual rights are respected. So while she has been remarkable about finding loopholes that prevent the Protectorate (the PRT actually doesn't have direct jurisdiction) from applying most of their regulations against her she won't be able to actually assemble a proper complain to the proper authorities about the abuse she received from the ENE PRT/Protectorate, different from the treatment she receives from the Boston Wards office which is by the letter (and let's be fair, spirit) of the law not abuse but is a significant pressure she doesn't want or need at this point in time.

Click to shrink...

Undertaking behavior literally listed directly in the guidelines is not a loophole. It's the intended outcome of disseminated information provided for the benefits of the individual thus supplied.

She is not skipping or jogging or running on the sidewalk after dark to avoid the fact the regulations say that walking on the sidewalk after dark is illegal. She is riding her bike in the bike lane, as it were.

Seeing as how what she wants is to go to school (unharassed), do her schoolwork (unharassed), eat and sleep (unharassed), and not be a Ward, the assertion that Boston's behavior is in any way by the letter or spirit of the law is both erroneous and as insidious as pretending they can't report another Department for causing a trigger because they didn't directly witness it. Even if she hadn't already stated before her father finished signing the paperwork granting them guardianship, no less that she wanted nothing to do with them, any attempt after the first to convince her to become a full Ward while she willfully chooses to not undergo power testing is, given the loopholes he has to navigate to find acceptable events to convince her to do so that aren't outright banned by the Youth Guard, straining the edge of legality even without considering institutional abuse enhancing the complicity of the initial accusation by subjecting her to it anew.

 

[Zernoc56]

---

Am I mistaken in thinking that Brockton Bay is the location for the East North East regional field office for the Protectorate and PRT while Boston is a resident angency and thus would be part of the ENE field offices jurisdiction? So Armstrong would ultimately be under Piggot. Unless the PRT isn't set up like other federal law enforcement agencies like the FBI, US Marshals Service, Secret Service, ATF, etc etc? For example, the FBI irl has a Boston field office that:

Serves the state of Massachusetts,Maine, New Hampshire, and Rhode Island. Resident agencies in Augusta, Bangor, Bedford (NH), Lakeville (MA), Lowell (MA), Portland (ME), Portsmouth, Springfield, Providence (RI) and Worcester."

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So either the PRT/Protectorate has a radically different bureaucratic structure to every one of its fellow federal law enforcement agencies, or Armstrong isn't principled enough to go over his superiors head to HQ about the blatant corruption and disregard for human rights occurring in the Brockton Bay regional office seemingly at the behest of the Special Agent in Charge, Emily Piggot. Even if Piggot isn't Armstrongs direct superior and they are both in leadership positions of equal power, Armstrong still hasn't been shown in the story here to be principled enough to contact headquarters about the absolute shitstorm that's brewing around him. In fact I seem to recall that DC is leaning on him to get his unruly conscript to fall in line and bury the scandal.

 

[RogueInquisitor]

Actually, her opinion is the only one that matters, given that she is not a probative ward. She is their charge, not their property.

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Taylor's opinion was that she didn't want to be signed up for the Wards and she didn't want to be sent to Boston. She is signed up for the Wards and sent to Boston, because she's a minor. If her opinion carried any legal weight, she would still be in Brocton Bay, and not affiliated with the PRT at all.

Armstrong's promises would be irrelevant, especially as long as he denies her any agency whatsoever. The only thing he's entitled to is the ability to provide her with what he's legally required to, which does not consist of anything hero related unless she wishes it. Until she willfully decides to undergo power testing, she is not a true, actual, Ward. This should be evident enough by the fact they had to brute-force and jury-rig the system to accept a temporary id as if it were permanent, seeing as there is no permanent id for those not fully processed, which given the attitude of almost all of them, comes off more as not drinking the kool-aid. Any program that criminally mismanaged deserves absolutely nothing from anyone, least of all minors that are not bound there by plea agreements, even without considering the fact they're deliberately antagonizing her by treating her like a slave who wasn't just recently violated repeatedly.

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In Ontario, you need a PE credit to graduate high school. They strongly reccommend that that credit be grade 9 PE. They assume it will be grade 9 PE. If you don't sign up for it, they will sign you up for it anyways. They will even tell you that grade 9 PE is a mandatory credit, unless you press them. This happened to me, but I eventually got them to let me take a different PE credit. However, I'm sure the overwhelming majority of students get stuck in grade 9 PE.

As for the ID, Phase is explicitly a temporary, placeholder name, until she goes through power testing. Getting a permanent ID without a permanent name is a system that is properly set up. Frankly, what is more questionable is that they are introducing her to the public as Phase, which may have to change if she ever goes through power testing.

Refusing to satisfy someone else's self-interest, especially when they're your guardian's boss and you're essentially a foster child, is not stubbornness in the sense of being contumacious, but of being perseverant in the face of ignominy.

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Okay, I have a higher tolerance for pedantry than most, but this takes splitting hairs to a whole new level. "Stubborn" is entirely apppropriate to describe 'perseverant in the face of ignominy.'

 

[Dakkah]

Legally speaking they can't report about being a crime or unethical act from the ENE Protectorate until they break at least a law or internal regulation, and normal police investigations can take months to years so a two month delay in an assault case done in the civilian identity of two Wards won't lit any alarms worth of an internal affairs investigation yet, in six month however it might be a different matter.

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Honestly part of me would be surprised if there weren't any laws or regulations against a department performing 'their own investigation' when one of the accused is the Director.

Or that no-one in the PRT is bright enough to see that this entire debacle is a terrible hill to die on.*

But then again, it is Worm.

*I suppose that could be partially blamed on tunnel vision and their over-reliance on thinkers.

 

[Praetrunco]

Taylor's opinion was that she didn't want to be signed up for the Wards and she didn't want to be sent to Boston. She is signed up for the Wards and sent to Boston, because she's a minor. If her opinion carried any legal.weight, she would still be in Brocton Bay, and not affiliated with the PRT at all.

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Unless emancipated, no minor gets to make the sort of decisions it requires being an adult to make solely of their own accord. Please exercise at least a modicum of common sense and rational thought.

Were her opinion to not matter, she would be a full Ward. Full stop. End of line. As explicitly outlined in the narrative, identically to real life foster children, there are legal requirements as to what the guardian must provide their charge. Simply because she is a parahuman does not void this, it in point of fact ensures it. All it changes is whom may have custody of her, at least until the PRT makes a pattern of proving they have absolutely no interest whatsoever in following the law and she is removed from their custody.

As her opinion actually does matter, they cannot force her to go into testing and become a full Ward. If you've actually paid any attention whatsoever to the story, you'd notice that they in fact have not actually attempted such, and have only attempted to try and convince her to change her mind.

This is both because her opinion is the only one that matters, and because they have no legal grounds with which to compel her otherwise thus far.

But please, dance around the entire issue of her being their charge and not property again by pretending kids can prevent the realities of life like having to move for a job or family or natural disasters.

In Ontario, you need a PE credit to graduate high school. They strongly reccommend that that credit be grade 9 PE. They assume it will be grade 9 PE. If you don't sign up for it, they will sign you up for it anyways. They will even tell you that grade 9 PE is a mandatory credit, unless you press them. This happened to me, but I eventually got them to let me take a different PE credit. Hiwever, I'm sure the overwhelming majority of students get stuck in grade 9 PE.

As for the ID, Phase is explicitly a temporary, placeholder name, until she goes through power testing. Getting a permanent ID without a permanent name is a system that is properly set up. Frankly, what is more questionable is that they are introducing her to the public as Phase, which may have to change if she ever goes through power testing.

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If you had brought up a biosecurity system that failed to account for those with nonstandard irises or fingerprints, you might have actually gone on a relevant tangent. Even though that'd still be one proving you wrong.

Since it is incomparable to the willful choice to disregard the potential that, given it is written right into the provisional outline of the program it be entirely optional, future recruits would elect to forego joining the goose-stepping club and instead merely take advantage of what they are legally required to provide, no, the system is not properly set up. Because a properly set up system acknowledges that one size fits all is a setting that does not exist.

"I read my damn contract and the rules on the train down here. You can't force me to go through power testing. But until I go through power testing, I'm only a Ward on paper. No costume, no name, no patrols, nothing. You can't even make me do PR events, thanks to Youth Guard regulations."

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Funny, but I don't see Taylor mentioning no ID and thus the ability to do anything at all. She's in the program, she warrants the same treatment. Stop being obtuse.

Okay, I have a higher tolerance for pedantry than most, but this takes splitting hairs to a whole new level. "Stubborn" is entirely apppropriate to describe 'perseverant in the face of ignominy.'

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It's not splitting hairs in the least. It's paying actual attention to nuance and context, some of the most important aspects of language, particularly the written medium.

Of the five websites I looked at definitions of stubborn for at, the totals are thusly; Negative, positive, neutral, negative, neutral. The second is: Negative, positive, negative, negative, neutral. The third is: Negative, positive. The fourth, negative. The fifth, negative, negative. Zero of persevere's eight definitions from the same sites are negative. Making your selection rather specious.

Additionally, if you regard her behavior in that vein as positive, absolutely nothing you've typed indicates such.

 

[Nikas_Zekeval]

Taylor's opinion was that she didn't want to be signed up for the Wards and she didn't want to be sent to Boston. She is signed up for the Wards and sent to Boston, because she's a minor. If her opinion carried any legal.weight, she would still be in Brocton Bay, and not affiliated with the PRT at all.

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And let's see how that's working out for both Piggot and Armstrong...

• Armstrong has a parahuman who is bound and determined to never give him what he wants. Her as an active hero under his or anyone else in the PRT's command.
• He and Gauss have blown up any influence by not refusing or resisting the transfer when it came out Piggot was shipping a PR and legal problem out of state.
  • Parental pressure/approval? Danny can't even pull the "you live under my roof" card. And the Youth Guard puts a stop to that for Armstrong.
  • Peer pressure/approval? By not stopping, or even protesting and trying but failing to talk Danny out once Taylor filled in the situation? "Your Wards drove all my friends away" was what Taylor told Gauss in response to getting a civilian ID phone. To Taylor it isn't 'a bad couple of individuals' or 'a bad department/team.' No, accepting her like they did confirmed to Taylor that her previous experiences with Emma and Sophia is "the violence inherent in the system."
  • Legal pressure? Well the only adult in the last two years that both listened to Taylor and acted effectively on her behalf? Is Jim her Youth Guard Rep. So he's in her corner, and was even willing to fight putting her on exhibit in the Ward's Lounge Tours. Taylor declined to fight that because she figured out she can do more damage by not refusing.
    • Conclusion? Armstrong and Gauss went by the letter of the laws and PRT regulations. And in return have received Phase, who is only a Ward by the letter of the law and PRT regulation.
      • Which is jack and shit for what the pair really want, her in costume and boosting for the Wards with her presence on patrols and happy PR appearances.
• Meanwhile, remember Jim? He is introducing Taylor to the wonderful world of bothering by the book. And the regulation that allows a Ward (which they made her legally) with 'sufficient reason' to file complaints against another department.
  • Something Taylor is happy and enthusiastically doing against the Brockton Bay Wards. So rather than losing two problem Wards and maybe getting one as a replacement? Piggot is looking at her entire Wards roster being benched for months just to clear the current complaints, and I doubt Taylor is done yet.
    • Thus affecting her ability to recruit any more Wards while under this cloud. Even if the Youth Guard would allow it, rather than suggest applying to another PRT department (but not Boston)? "Join the Wards. Sit around twiddling your thumbs while your teammates are investigated!" is hardly a winning recruitment pitch. And even PR events might not be allowed while the investigation is ongoing. So reduced presence from the Brockton Bay Wards to drive interest in their team
• OTOH, forcing Taylor to do Wards Lounge PR is turning into a poison pill deal as is forcing her to associate with the Boston Wards.
  • Most obviously she will talk down the program in any way she can.
    • Less obviously, the more she is seen only in her civvies and a mask, and only in the Wards Lounge? The more people are going to ask when she is going to be fielded, and why the delay? As one omake puts it, from the outside this looks like the most half-assed PR roll-out for a Ward possible.
      • Also going back to Brockton, the longer their Wards are benched the more people are going to notice and ask why they are suddenly not doing anything.
  • This is all building up to a toxic stew of resentment from the Boston Wards that want to be there. And they are already picking sides related to Taylor's situation.
    • Her friendliness with the Youth Guard probably doesn't help. To her they are the only adults in her life now that offer effective action over platitudes at best, or decide she is lying or exaggerating the situation massively at worse. To the other Wards, they YG are the killjoys, and would see Taylor like a Rookie Cop being friendly with Internal Affairs and reporting things "everyone lets slide" to IA.

tl: dr? Piggot and Armstrong's actions set in motion events and decisions that have made things far worse than doing the right thing, rather than the legalistic thing. They have gotten no benefit and received only ongoing pain and loss for it. Signing up Taylor against her will is Napoleon invading Spain. Small hints how well that went? At the time it was called his bleeding ulcer and is also the origin of the term 'guerrilla'.

Edit: which is my entire god damn point. Legally they might not have needed Taylor's consent, but practically and morally they did, and are now reaping the consequences of not getting it.

 

[RogueInquisitor]

Were her opinion to not matter, she would be a full Ward. Full stop. End of line. As explicitly outlined in the narrative, identically to real life foster children, there are legal requirements as to what the guardian must provide their charge. Simply because she is a parahuman does not void this, it in point of fact ensures it. All it changes is whom may have custody of her, at least until the PRT makes a pattern of proving they have absolutely no interest whatsoever in following the law and she is removed from their custody.

As her opinion actually does matter, they cannot force her to go into testing and become a full Ward. If you've actually paid any attention whatsoever to the story, you'd notice that they in fact have not actually attempted such, and have only attempted to try and convince her to change her mind.

This is both because her opinion is the only one that matters, and because they have no legal grounds with which to compel her otherwise thus far.

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She is, de jure, a member of the Wards team. She has access to privileged areas and information because of this. She is introduced to tour groups as a new Ward. She is not a full Ward, due to refusing power testing, but that doesn't mean she isn't a Ward at all.

But please, dance around the entire issue of her being their charge and not property again by pretending kids can prevent the realities of life like having to move for a job or family or natural disasters.

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I'm not. My point was that she's in Boston because she doesn't have the ability to say "I'm not moving to Boston," and have it stick, because she's a minor. Danny didn't move and bring her with, Brockton Bay is no more of a disaster than usual, Taylor is in Boston because she's a minor, and her legal guardian said so.

If you had brought up a biosecurity system that failed to account for those with nonstandard irises or fingerprints, you might have actually gone on a relevant tangent. Even though that'd still be one proving you wrong.

Since it is incomparable to the willful choice to disregard the potential that, given it is written right into the provisional outline of the program it be entirely optional, future recruits would elect to forego joining the goose-stepping club and instead merely take advantage of what they are legally required to provide, no, the system is not properly set up. Because a properly set up system acknowledges that one size fits all is a setting that does not exist.

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Taylor is apparently the first person to encounter this edge case, despite thousands of parahumans going through the program over a couple decades. They likely have 2 main cases: volunteers who are eager to go through testing, get their official name, and their shiny new official ID, and kids like Sophia Hess, who can be compelled, at least under threat of prison, to go through with it. You may get kids who are somewhat reluctant, but probably not so reluctant as to so determinedly refuse. Taylor is in the apparently unprecedented case of hating the PRT as much as, or even more than, the "Wards or prison" crowd, but doesn't have anything the PRT can use to force them into power testing. Dealing with conscript syndrome in the Wards may even have been deliberately avoided being considered, because "Wards aren't child soldiers" is one of the most important parts of their PR.

Funny, but I don't see Taylor mentioning no ID and thus the ability to do anything at all. She's in the program, she warrants the same treatment. Stop being obtuse.

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In the hypothetical scenario she goes through power testing, they may decide that "Phase" is no longer an appropriate name. Until the power testing box is checked, you can't have a permanent ID, because the name isn't yet permanent. They do have a system for extended temporary IDs, which does everything they need of it.

Additionally, if you regard her behavior in that vein as positive, absolutely nothing you've typed indicates such.

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I actually intended it to be read more than one way. For Taylor, she'd read it positively. The audience can read it however they'd like. The PRT and Protectorate would view it more negatively.

In general, I side with Taylor here. However, I also like to play devils advocate, inject some nuance, and point out other perspectives exist.

 

[BF110C4]

Playing the devil's advocate for a moment I think that knowing what he now knows Amstrong would still not refuse Taylor's relocation. Yeah, I 100% agree with the fact that she is a serious problem for both departments and a poison pill for morale but the politics between Boston and BB are more complex than that.

- In the first place there is the fact that BB and Boston are an hour apart. That means there is a frequent cross between the criminal elements of one city and the other. A feud with the ENE would probably end with intel being delayed and coordination degrading, which would increase the threat for both cities.

- So far every bit of talks about the situation agree that while Piggot and the ENE department was wrong, it wasn't illegal. Just like its hard to pin down a racist cop who bother by the book only people of the wrong color it might not even be possible for him to fill a complaint against the ENE Wards with the information he has available.

- The only reason Danny agreed to move his daughter was due to him being an hour away by car. If he refuses the relocation then the move is off and Taylor stays in BB in the same department than Emma and Sophia with Piggot directly supervising. That's a recipe for disaster if I have ever seen one.

- Denying a new recruit without a clear cause can and will get him future reinforcements denied. As much as is a pain to have his Wards having morale issues, not getting new Protectorate heroes from the national office is worse.

 

[Smileyface43]

Taylor " And here in this jar is my limited edition Alexandria heart"

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"I'm joking of course. I don't think she ever actually had a heart"

 

[SlickRCBD]

Playing the devil's advocate for a moment I think that knowing what he now knows Amstrong would still not refuse Taylor's relocation. Yeah, I 100% agree with the fact that she is a serious problem for both departments and a poison pill for morale but the politics between Boston and BB are more complex than that.

- In the first place there is the fact that BB and Boston are an hour apart. That means there is a frequent cross between the criminal elements of one city and the other. A feud with the ENE would probably end with intel being delayed and coordination degrading, which would increase the threat for both cities.

- So far every bit of talks about the situation agree that while Piggot and the ENE department was wrong, it wasn't illegal. Just like its hard to pin down a racist cop who bother by the book only people of the wrong color it might not even be possible for him to fill a complaint against the ENE Wards with the information he has available.

- The only reason Danny agreed to move his daughter was due to him being an hour away by car. If he refuses the relocation then the move is off and Taylor stays in BB in the same department than Emma and Sophia with Piggot directly supervising. That's a recipe for disaster if I have ever seen one.

- Denying a new recruit without a clear cause can and will get him future reinforcements denied. As much as is a pain to have his Wards having morale issues, not getting new Protectorate heroes from the national office is worse.

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I kinda have to agree I have some sympathy for Armstrong who was handed a lousy hand. I also don't think he had much of a choice about taking Taylor.
Danny made the decision, and as he is the parent and Taylor is a minor, the decision was his.
It's no different from a parent sending their kid away to a summer camp where the kid can experience "the great outdoors" when they would rather stay inside and play video games. Or alternatively, sending the kid to a reform school or one of those infamous teenage boot camps. The kid loudly protests, and is brought there against their will.

That said, the way it was handled was exactly like the latter, yet then once she's in Boston they expect her to be happy about it and "get with the program".
I actually have some sympathy for Armstrong as he's being pressured to make Taylor "Get with the program".
That said, there is a bit more he could have done to get on Taylor's side, such as trying to get something done about what was done to her, including alerting the PRT's Internal Affairs at the national level, and contacting the Attorney General in Brockton Bay. Another possibility is alerting the OIG-DOJ (Office of Inspector General- Department of Justice), or whoever the OIG is for the PRT (I doubt the DHS exists since 9/11 never happened). Alternately also alert the Government Accountability Office (GAO) about how the PRT-ENE handled Taylor's situation. Possibly alerting the FBI about a coverup, but I'm not sure if the FBI investigates other DOJ agencies, only State and local ones, I think that's the job for the OIG-DOJ.
Sorry, I tried to look into the above back when Implacable was written and found a confusing mess of the Federal government law enforcement between the DHS, DoJ, Treasury, and the DoD, (mostly NSA) and various sub-departments.
Although the DoD, DHS, and Treasury were irrelevant for figuring who might be able to go over Piggot and possibly Costa-Brown's head, figuring out who is responsible for what law enforcement can be confusing in the federal government. Especially if you're figuring out if this fictional group you're writing about that is getting both illegal drugs and guns would fall under DEA or ATF jurisdiction.
I remember it being much simpler in my civics classes in grade and high school (ending at the start of the late '90s), did they simplify things and leave a lot of seemingly overlapping agencies out (this was years before 9/11 so no DHS) or did they make it far more complicated after 9/11 with more agencies?

Anyways, I digressed into a rant on figuring out the federal government. Armstrong went wrong by paying no attention to Taylor's grievances and why she wanted nothing to do with them, or downplaying and minimizing them. This is in my experience normal behavior for adult-teen relations, and to a lessor extent Authority-subordinate relations, but it still wasn't conductive to getting her on board. Although I do think the way adults tend to treat teenagers like their concerns do not matter and their wants are irrelevant has a lot to do with the teenage rebellion and why teenagers tend to be angry and less respectful of adults. If said adults treated another adult that way all the time they'd have an angry and rebellious adult most of the time as well.

 

[KingCrimson1081]

That said, there is a bit more he could have done to get on Taylor's side, such as trying to get something done about what was done to her, including alerting the PRT's Internal Affairs at the national level, and contacting the Attorney General in Brockton Bay. Another possibility is alerting the OIG-DOJ (Office of Inspector General- Department of Justice), or whoever the OIG is for the PRT (I doubt the DHS exists since 9/11 never happened). Alternately also alert the Government Accountability Office (GAO) about how the PRT-ENE handled Taylor's situation. Possibly alerting the FBI about a coverup, but I'm not sure if the FBI investigates other DOJ agencies, only State and local ones, I think that's the job for the OIG-DOJ.

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Can he get those organizations involved? Because from what I can tell Piggot did say that she would look into it and so long as she makes a token appearance that there is an investigation she can claim that she isn't covering anything up just that it is taking an extended amount of time.