Rule 3 Addendum - Translations of Others' Works

[SmokeRichards]

Uh, no? Some are derivative others transformative, not to mention the line between them is pretty blurry. Why original authors don't go after ficwriters you've partially written yourself, but you also gave out a pretty hypocritical opinion of why you'd do it yourself, lol. Which suggests to me that the issue here is your self-interest, not that they're completely different things. And for gods sake stop using the word 'plagiarism' instead of 'copyright infringement' it's not the same fucking thing.

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I meant what I said. There's nothing partial about a translation. You're changing the format, not the content. I don't care if I can't understand the language. I'm sure people could put english text into a format my computer cant parse. If someone posted my fic on a website I couldn't access, I'd be upset for the same reasons, nothing hypocritical about it.

Original authors don't go after fanfic writers for a variety of reasons such as;

Making war on your fanbase is not a good buisiness decision. The original ideas makes things murky legally. There's no profit in suing someone who's probably broke. They aren't taking money from you. It's actually nice to see people love things you made so much they want to make things too.

You are ignoring everything I said. AO3? It's called the Archive for Transformative Works. The transformation is the basis for the distinction. You are very clearly doing your own thing. Even with fanfic, if you post sections of text verbatim, you are asking to get sued. If you post sections of text verbatim, people expect you to have a citation at the bottom of the page. If you have rewritten that text, you have transformed it by putting those ideas into your own words and your own prose. If you post a story that is 90% citations of harry potter, expect Rowling's very scary lawyers to come around and sue the shit out of you.

I don't feel a translation meets the threshhold of transformative. You're changing the langauge, but those are still my words, my ideas, my paragraph format, my text spacing, my prose beats, my characters, my plot, my worldbuilding, my expertise, and so on.

The only thing it isn't is mine is the language.

A translation is worse than posting a story that is 90% citations. 90% citations is asking to be sued, but at least ten percent of everything is yours. A true translation is all about conveying the writers meaning as accurately as possible. The goal is to change my story as little as you can. The mark of a good translater is how little they must change to convey my ideas the way I wanted them conveyed.

That makes it my stuff. At least the bits I own. If I have original work, it's all my stuff. No transformation. Fuck translators. It's not right to steal work and post it where I don't know about it in my own language, so why is right to steal work and post it in a different language?

 

[Evillevi]

A translation is worse than posting a story that is 90% citations. 90% citations is asking to be sued, but at least ten percent of everything is yours. A true translation is all about conveying the writers meaning as accurately as possible. The goal is to change my story as little as you can. The mark of a good translater is how little they must change to convey my ideas the way I wanted them conveyed.

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There 1 chinese series that supposedly got approval for fan translation, and by god the work is incredibly difficult to translate.

And like you said for all the work that went into the translation, it keeps close to the original meaning. Arguably it takes more effort and more skill to change as little as possible than to write good fanfiction.

 

[Chastity]

Restricting what other people can do with something after they have purchased it or been given it or whatever? That's not getting payment for your work. At that point you should have already gotten paid and now you're just trying to restrict what other people can do after the fact. Someone translating a copy (no MTL) has more to talk about there regarding payment for work issues.

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Okay, so if I sell a copy of my book for $5 (printing cost: $3), then a publishing company takes that book and sells it for $2.50 (because they don't charge themselves as much as me), I should just suck it as they take all the profits of my hard work? I just want to be clear, this is your proposal. It's not that people will share their copy with their friends or something; without copyright ~all publishing profits will be about who controls the physical printers with 0 concern for who wrote the book.

 

[imffqq]

So, you just maybe won't copyright strike for using your character and will be a little miffed about not being asked, but see no problem when using Wildbow's characters and world. How long have you been asking him for permission?

It's called the Archive for Transformative Works.

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And just because it's called that makes a difference? It's an opinion. The law doesn't clearly define what fanfiction is. Just like there's no clear definition of the difference between transformative and derivative. Or rather it is there, but it is so vague that it is unclear where one begins and the other ends, so it is determined from case to case. That is why they are actually in the gray zone.

The transformation is the basis for the distinction.

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Uh-huh, except how big the transformation should be is not.

If I have original work, it's all my stuff. No transformation. Fuck translators.

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No objection to that.

Either way, the post reeks of "I'm doing this and it benefits me personally so it's a good thing. I don't do this and it affects my personal interests so it's bad."

I'm not a writer, fanfic writer, translator, or reader of translations (within the topic under discussion). I have no personal stakes here and in my opinion the difference between asking permission to translate and permission to write fanfic (and use setting, plot elements, characters, etc) in the case of non-commercial use is almost non-existent. And that's why it's wild to me that we ask for one but don't ask for the other.

P.S. plagiarism is passing something off as your own. When a translation clearly states that it is a translation and translation of what exactly it is not plagiarism. It may be a copyright violation, but it's not fucking plagiarism.

 

[SmokeRichards]

There 1 chinese series that got approval for supposedly got approval for fan translation, and by god the work is incredibly difficult to translate.

And like you said for all the work that went into the translation, it keeps close to the original meaning. Arguably it takes more effort and more skill to change as little as possible than to write good fanfiction.

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I would probably be a lot more sympathetic if you could look at translations and they were all works of love. It's still be pretty iffy for the reasons I've already outlined, but at least then it'd be more complimentary.

It's polite, even in the fanfic scene, to ask for permission for recursive fanfic for pretty good moral reasons, even if it's not legally necessary. My stories are my babies. I made them. I poured my love into them. A lot of it is mine. It's expression, and self expression can be a personal, intimate thing. Writers expect to have a little control over that kind of thing. Not much. But a little. If someone comes in to your fandom, and they steal your shit and make a fanfic of your fanfic, there's two things that are going to happen; They are going to do it worse, at which point, fucking hell, this bastard is mangling your kid. The one you love. Or they are going to do it better, at which point they are stealing your audience from you.

So people ask for permission. Or sometimes they don't, and they get rebuked. Me? I once wrote some shit without asking permission, and I got called on it. And you know what? The writer was lovely, authorized it post facto when they could see I wrote what I did because I loved the shit out've their work, but they were right to call me out for that bullshit.

You don't have to ask. But it makes you a dick if you don't. Depending on where you are, there is established etiquette in the creative space. If you lift ideas? That's great. Tell me. I want to hear about it. If your peers feel you're lifting say, text, rewriting it, but I can totally tell that's my paragraph structure because I've got a comparision right here, and yup, beat for beat, that's mine? Well, we're all talking about you, and we think you're a dick. And you don't get to access my beta drafts, and no one wants your help with their things. Your a thief. And it's not the kind of theft that's accepted in the creative spaces, and yes, there are types of thefts that not only are accepted, but are actively encouraged.

People think fanfic is a free-for-all. It's not. No one can enforce anything, but there's social rules and expectations, and if you don't play by them, expect to get shut out.

The vast majority of writers I've interacted with, regardless of whether or not they are fanfic writers or not, are not going to be okay with having their works translated without permission. Its something that goes way beyond the boundaries of accepted lifting, and goes into plagiarism and theft, and it doesn't matter if it can be enforced or not. By that same token, you get permission? You'd find that very few fanfic writers are going to be upset about a translation. In fact, most of them are going to be enthusiastic about it. It's amazing that someone wants to translate your shit.

Permission is a very reasonable rule. People who aren't willing to get permission don't have my sympathy. If they don't want to get permission, then they can transform it. There's nothing wrong with rewriting the plot of ATLA in your own language as long as you are changing things up. Adapting an entire media like that and porting it into an entire different culture with it's customs and context is transformative.

So, you just maybe won't copyright strike for using your character and will be a little miffed about not being asked, but see no problem when using Wildbow's characters and world. How long have you been asking him for permission?

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Your missing the point. Me asking wibbles for permission puts him and me in a difficult legal situation. Suddenly, we're legally aware of each other. Wibbles has to give me a C&D. By that same token, I can't have him commenting on my stuff. That is legal notice that he's aware of my shit, and if he steals ideas from me, I can sue him.

Translations are already in hot legal shit. They're illegal. IP holders can pursue action at any time. For the vast majority, it's not the fact that they're letting it slide. It's that they don't know about it. It's seen as a dick move to pursue legal action if you've got no intention of translating it yourself.

Tolkien's estate has some of the most agressive lawyers on the planet. Outright piracy websites ban his books because that estate is so litigous. The Tolkien estate leaves AO3 alone for a reason. If they could sue, they would. But they can't. Fanfic isn't illegal.

I dare you to translate anything tolkien and see how fast you get sued. Translations are different. It doesn't really matter how much you want to clap your hands over your ears and pretend that difference doesn't exist. A difference is there, and it recognized both legally, and socially, inside, and outside the creative spheres.

 

[imffqq]

Fanfic isn't illegal.

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They're also not legal. As you yourself pointed out above. They are in the gray zone and remain in it until they are paid attention to. And after that it is determined whether they are transformative or derivative. Each separately, not as a whole. Fanfics can be transformative, not all of them are.

Your missing the point. Me asking wibbles for permission puts him and me in a difficult legal situation. Suddenly, we're legally aware of each other. Wibbles has to give me a C&D. By that same token, I can't have him commenting on my stuff. That is legal notice that he's aware of my shit, and if he steals ideas from me, I can sue him.

Translations are already in hot legal shit. They're illegal. IP holders can pursue action at any time. For the vast majority, it's not the fact that they're letting it slide. It's that they don't know about it. It's seen as a dick move to pursue legal action if you've got no intention of translating it yourself.

Tolkien's estate has some of the most agressive lawyers on the planet. Outright piracy websites ban his books because that estate is so litigous. The Tolkien estate leaves AO3 alone for a reason. If they could sue, they would. But they can't. Fanfic isn't illegal.

I dare you to translate anything tolkien and see how fast you get sued. Translations are different. It doesn't really matter how much you want to clap your hands over your ears and pretend that difference doesn't exist. A difference is there, and it recognized both legally, and socially, inside, and outside the creative spheres.

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You're missing the point too, I'm not talking about translations of original works, I'm talking exclusively about fanfic translations. And you really don't notice that you use very similar arguments in both cases, yet you use them to argue opposing views?

P.S. In the highlighted part you well described why copyright is bullshit, in support of the guy above who is trying to prove it.

 

[Evillevi]

. It may be a copyright violation, but it's not fucking plagiarism

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Being fair this is 110% true for human/proper translation.

As a reader of translated works, there are many many massive problems that translators have to deal with from a linguistical POV. Primarily translating meaning that require cultural context to understand or appreciate.

It's horrifically difficult.

Naturally machine translation are really trash in comparison.

The vast majority of writers I've interacted with, regardless of whether or not they are fanfic writers or not, are not going to be okay with having their works translated without permission. Its something that goes way beyond the boundaries of accepted lifting, and goes into plagiarism and theft, and it doesn't matter if it can be enforced or not. By that same token, you get permission? You'd find that very few fanfic writers are going to be upset about a translation. In fact, most of them are going to be enthusiastic about it. It's amazing that someone wants to translate your shit.

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Oh I get the point. What I am pointing out is that proper translation is just... weirdly weird in how it interacts with the idea of theft (if you can apply theft to a technically infinitely copyable product).

Namely as you approach 100% , the structure , pacing and general writing of the story will start drifting from the original. It will never fully disconnect but in effect the translators would have to start editing the story to convey meaning that English/Chinese don't mutually possess

Spoiler: Dai Jie vs Big sister

Apropos of nothing, There's an interesting translation conversation when I originally read the translation. The translators pointed out that to convey the subtext of being a respected position, they will sometime use Chinese titles in their original pronunciation to emphasize that it's special vs when it's not. Tiny things like that is why proper translation is so difficult.

Edit: This is not to say that fan translation are legal or illegal. I'm pretty sure they aren't. But they aren't a lazy idea theft that some would imply.

 

[SmokeRichards]

They're also not legal. As you yourself pointed out above. They are in the gray zone and remain in it until they are paid attention to. And after that it is determined whether they are transformative or derivative. Each separately, not as a whole. Fanfics can be transformative, not all of them are.

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If it's not legal, and it's not illegal, than defacto, it is permissive. Western civilization operates on proscription, not prescription.

If it's not transformative, then it's illegal. The bar for transformative is very low. It's not hard to clear. As little as ten percent can make it transformative, legally speaking. You are pointing and going "Nuh uh, this is illegal too" and I'm like, "Yes! Thank you! You get it!"

People who cite 90% of Harry Potter get C&D's because they're ripping Rowling off, and everyone knows it. It's illegal. People who translate get C&D's because they're ripping someone off. It's illegal. People who write worm fanfiction don't get C&D's because no one really has a standard for the point a setting becomes fair use. My work is transformative. It is a commentary. And you know what? When you start accepting pay? Suddenly, my work, which was previously in a gray area, is now in a bad area legally, because a big question on whether or not it's allowed hinges on if I'm making any money off of it. I don't have a patreon because I'd really prefer not to be sued.

If you translate my shit- fuck, lets remove me from the equation. Lets say you translate John Doe's shit. If you don't change John's characters, and you don't change Wibble's Characters, then you haven't transformed anything at all.

Yes. It doesn't matter if it's fanfic. Fanfic is de facto legal. Translations are de jure illegal. The only difference is that if you translate a fanwork without permission, you're violating two copyrights and not just one.

Fanfic writers have rights. It's the only reason big corpo can't come in, look at my plot, slap me with a C&D, and then use that plot to make their new TV show. The same rights that protect me from big corpo using me as unpaid slave labor post facto is the same legal rights that make translations of fanfic without meeting the transformative work criteria illegal.

P.S. In the highlighted part you well described why copyright is bullshit, in support of the guy above who is trying to prove it.

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Look, you want to talk about my hate for the DCMA act? We'll be here all day. I sail the high seas as a hobby, yo ho yo ho.

The mods don't give a shit about translators. They'd like to not get sued. That's the issue. The litigation. The forward thinkers understand that if they don't stamp it out, they're going to get served sooner or later.

 

[Azraelith]

11 pages of whataboutism, holy hell mods should really lock this

 

[Jason Wu]

Don't know about you but I'm having a blast reading this back and forth. I'm fifty fifty on the subject personally

 

[Azraelith]

Don't know about you but I'm having a blast reading this back and forth. I'm fifty fifty on the subject personally

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I'm completely neutral to it but glad they're no longer going to spam the nsfw side of QQ, even if most of them were SFW. Just that 11 pages of this has me scratching my head at how ardently or aggressively people are defending/attacking this.

 

[Jason Wu]

I'm completely neutral to it but glad they're no longer going to spam the nsfw side of QQ, even if most of them were SFW. Just that 11 pages of this has me scratching my head at how ardently or aggressively people are defending/attacking this.

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Reading fanfiction is a hobby and how people value the individual aspects and how they consume it is ultimately gonna be different from person to person. Naturally there's going to be disagreements regarding that

 

[SmokeRichards]

Oh I get the point. What I am pointing out is that proper translation is just... weirdly weird in how it interacts with the idea of theft (if you can apply theft to a technically infinitely copyable product).

Namely as you approach 100% , the structure , pacing and general writing of the story will start drifting from the original. It will never fully disconnect but in effect the translators would have to start editing the story to convey meaning that English/Chinese don't mutually possess

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Don't know about you but I'm having a blast reading this back and forth. I'm fifty fifty on the subject personally

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I think that if the machine translators hadn't been shitting everything up, I'd be a lot more "Mods, how could you do this?"

I mean, the mods would still be right. But I'd feel bad about it.

I'm completely neutral to it but glad they're no longer going to spam the nsfw side of QQ, even if most of them were SFW. Just that 11 pages of this has me scratching my head at how ardently or aggressively people are defending/attacking this.

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Well, there was this one user who was complaining that the mods didn't give them time to move their operations, and how this could leave the to starve. Basically tried to guilt them by asking "You wouldn't make a poor man not be able to eat, would you?"

To which the mods responded with a pretty chad "Yes, we support world starvation."

Jokes aside, that right there? That's litigation risk. Someone admitting their using this platform to make money off of this stuff. That's risky even if it's fanfic. The only real way to get around it is to offer a different service on patreon, such as writing lessons, and have readers put money into that, most of whom never use the hours the writer entitles them to. I get the feeling these translators are a lot more blatant about paywalling their stuff.

If people really wanna tranlate, best advice I can give them is to find some websites on good, russian hosted servers. But that doesn't really work, because while the bear doesn't care about the DCMA act, they care about; porn, politics, and everything that isn't related to copyright law. Not even 1776 Hosting is going to protect you from copyright violations, and those dudes will host just about anyone.

As far as I figure? If they're being dicks about it in the creative sphere, they're bringing litigation risk to the site, and they're shitting up the forum for the majority of the users... Why would we want them? Where's the benefit?

No one can really tell me that. There's people who have permission. These are good users. Lets keep them. Everyone else? What makes them a good user? I'm asshole, but I produce content. What do these people produce other than litigation risk and machine slop? If the translators are really that good, then they should go and offer their services to the OG writers. "Hey bud, I'll translate this for free, and all legal rights belong to you. Lets draw up a contract."

 

[mizerie]

I support the mods decision because I expected the QQ to be about creative writing and not for some translation of novels. If I want to read translations, which I do more than read fanfics nowadays then I will go to other sites.

 

[randomlightning]

Honestly, we need to start making bingo cards for rule change threads. Blatant misunderstanding of the original post, excessively inane hypotheticals, odd derails into legal issues, extremely bad faith interpretations of the rule, endless whataboutisms.

Definitely could put together a card for this.

This is just a common courtesy rule, ask permission to translate the works. You aren't writing a story of your own, your straight up posting the exact story in a different language. And, given the quality of the ones I've seen here, I doubt many of them could claim actual effort was put in.

 

[SmokeRichards]

And, given the quality of the ones I've seen here, I doubt many of them could claim actual effort was put in.

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Wait. You're telling the thread "Help! I've been reincarnated as Naruto in a generic fantasy world" is not the peak of fiction or translation?

... I've been lied to.

I didn't ask to stumble into that thread. I didn't want to stumble into that thread! And now that I have, the emotional damage causes me daily pain.

 

[Evillevi]

I think that if the machine translators hadn't been shitting everything up, I'd be a lot more "Mods, how could you do this?"

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Machine translators makes the situation a lot more problematic since there's seemingly a business model that actually is based on mass tranlating stuff and posting it in other markets ahead of the original product.

 

[SmokeRichards]

Machine translators makes the situation a lot more problematic since there's seemingly a business model that actually is based on mass tranlating stuff and posting it in other markets ahead of the original product.

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"Noooo!!! Not my GPT 3.5 translation! I'll save you scammer-san!" *Proceeds to hurl body between thread and the [hammer]*

Yes, very nice.

Look, I like QQ mods. They never come into my threads. Ever. They don't give a fuck unless I ask them to give a fuck. QQ has like, three rules; Don't be an overly obnoxious dick. Don't draw heat on the site. And don't make us look at you.

It's like, the golden rules. If the mods have to stop whatever it is the mods do when they're moderating like mods in the moderation room, and that hand starts stroking the long, hard, throbbing shaft of their banhammer, which is pointed to the sky like mighty thor in that marvel movie, you know the one, then clearly that's a violation of rule three, and if they're drawing heat, that's rule two, and if they aren't asking permission, that's rule one.

Is it really a surprise that the mods are pulling out that mighty weapon and showing everyone what they have?

 

[imffqq]

If it's not legal, and it's not illegal, than defacto, it is permissive. Western civilization operates on proscription, not prescription.

If it's not transformative, then it's illegal. The bar for transformative is very low. It's not hard to clear. As little as ten percent can make it transformative, legally speaking. You are pointing and going "Nuh uh, this is illegal too" and I'm like, "Yes! Thank you! You get it!"

People who cite 90% of Harry Potter get C&D's because they're ripping Rowling off, and everyone knows it. It's illegal. People who translate get C&D's because they're ripping someone off. It's illegal. People who write worm fanfiction don't get C&D's because no one really has a standard for the point a setting becomes fair use. My work is transformative. It is a commentary. And you know what? When you start accepting pay? Suddenly, my work, which was previously in a gray area, is now in a bad area legally, because a big question on whether or not it's allowed hinges on if I'm making any money off of it. I don't have a patreon because I'd really prefer not to be sued.

If you translate my shit- fuck, lets remove me from the equation. Lets say you translate John Doe's shit. If you don't change John's characters, and you don't change Wibble's Characters, then you haven't transformed anything at all.

Yes. It doesn't matter if it's fanfic. Fanfic is de facto legal. Translations are de jure illegal. The only difference is that if you translate a fanwork without permission, you're violating two copyrights and not just one.

Fanfic writers have rights. It's the only reason big corpo can't come in, look at my plot, slap me with a C&D, and then use that plot to make their new TV show. The same rights that protect me from big corpo using me as unpaid slave labor post facto is the same legal rights that make translations of fanfic without meeting the transformative work criteria illegal.

Look, you want to talk about my hate for the DCMA act? We'll be here all day. I sail the high seas as a hobby, yo ho yo ho.

The mods don't give a shit about translators. They'd like to not get sued. That's the issue. The litigation. The forward thinkers understand that if they don't stamp it out, they're going to get served sooner or later.

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Can you make up your mind?

First you describe why authors of original works don't pursue fanfics because of the attendant difficulties and impracticality, even though they fucking can, which strongly implies that they are illegal. Now you're trying to argue that fanfics are perfectly legal. Furthermore, you're trying to claim that something being a fanfic automatically implies that it's a transformative work, which is absolutely not true - I can find you a dozen works on this site alone that are as derivative as possible without being a 100% copy of the original. They're legal, but they're in a gray area. They are legal, but I don't want to accept payment for them because there could be problems. And so on.

Once again, slowly - whether a fanfic is legal, whether it is transformative or derivative is determined for each fanfic individually. And stop using the terms 'plagiarism' and 'theft' where they don't apply.

 

[SmokeRichards]

First you describe why authors of original works don't pursue fanfics because of the attendant difficulties and impracticality, even though they fucking can, which strongly implies that they are illegal. Now you're trying to argue that fanfics are perfectly legal.

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Well, first off, that's plagarism and theft. Second off, The courts decide what is and is not legal. If I'm broke and can't afford to fight a lawsuit, then I takedown at the first notice. It's not illegal. I just couldn't fight it.

Furthermore, you're trying to claim that something being a fanfic automatically implies that it's a transformative work, which is absolutely not true - I can find you a dozen works on this site alone that are as derivative as possible without being a 100% copy of the original.

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Have you read anything I've written?

And stop using the terms 'plagiarism' and 'theft' where they don't apply.

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Oh, I'm sorry, I'm copyrighting the word copywrite. It's unique, not a typo you see. Look man; five sentences or less? What's your arguement? Is it that everything is illegal so why give a fuck? Is it that I'm a hypocrite (you're right! Let's agree, hold hands and sing kumaya!). Is it that these things are actually good? Do you too have a seething hatred of the DMCA system?

My brother from another mother, we are more alike than we are different. If we could just stop and communicate like fellow men, perhaps this bloodshed could end. How much ink has been shed over the forums? How many spellcheckers have cried for their mangled words, abandoned and uncorrected on the Xenforo screen? Is it not time to say enough and join hands?

 

[Khalderas]

Honestly, we need to start making bingo cards for rule change threads. Blatant misunderstanding of the original post, excessively inane hypotheticals, odd derails into legal issues, extremely bad faith interpretations of the rule, endless whataboutisms.

Definitely could put together a card for this.

This is just a common courtesy rule, ask permission to translate the works. You aren't writing a story of your own, your straight up posting the exact story in a different language. And, given the quality of the ones I've seen here, I doubt many of them could claim actual effort was put in.

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Right?! It's fucking fantastic reading all these people going into laws and shit when most of them have barely ever interacted with the law through proper channels.

Making this into protecting culture when talking about FANFICS. Mam, I love wasting my time by reading fics but most of them, even the ones I enjoy tremendously, have no place in 'a nation's history books' and needs to be saved.

Mods gave one single fucking stipulation "Get the original author's permissions" and people are REEEEE'ing extremely hard.

Peak internet moment right fucking here.

 

[imffqq]

Well, first off, that's plagarism and theft.

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And how, if it's plagiarizm and theft, is it legal?
Seriously, give me the definition of 'plagiarism' under which the way you apply the term falls.

The courts decide what is and is not legal. If I'm broke and can't afford to fight a lawsuit, then I takedown at the first notice. It's not illegal. I just couldn't fight it.

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So it turns out not all fanfics are legal?

Have you read anything I've written?

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Are we talking about arguments or your writings?

Look man; five sentences or less? What's your arguement? Is it that everything is illegal so why give a fuck? Is it that I'm a hypocrite (you're right! Let's agree, hold hands and sing kumaya!). Is it that these things are actually good? Do you too have a seething hatred of the DMCA system?

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You don't like the DMCA system as long as it's not in your best interest, because in this case you don't mind at all (I'm judging by what you wrote earlier). So yeah, I think you're a hypocrite.

I think this rule is bad, at least based on the reasoning given to us (that said, I think the argument about this being a forum for creative writing and audience interaction is valid. I'd just make a separate section for that if I were them). I think this rule is reasonable when we're talking about translating original works. I don't think asking permission to translate should be mandatory when fanfic authors themselves have not asked permission from the original authors, although I think it's good manners and would ask permission myself. This is all assuming the author of the original work is credited and there is no monetization.

Basically, I don't see why fanfic writers and translators should have cardinally different treatment.

 

[Generic_Generica]

Honestly, we need to start making bingo cards for rule change threads. Blatant misunderstanding of the original post, excessively inane hypotheticals, odd derails into legal issues, extremely bad faith interpretations of the rule, endless whataboutisms.

Definitely could put together a card for this.

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This has happened with every rule change, and with the exact same folks.

I'm honestly surprised the staff thought this was a problem, tbh - I didn't think crw on this site had as many fan translations as it apparently did.

Goes to show what I know, I guess.

This rule change doesn't surprise me though. Legally speaking there is a whole world of difference between an unauthorized translation and fanfic.

Fanfic's enough of a murky legal grey area to the point where people probably won't sue you over poorly-written anime tiddies and waifu bait.

This, of course, changes the instant you get large quantities of money involved, but that's a whole other can of worms I'm not interested in addressing because it's a tangent and besides the point.

Translations though? If the original work was written by someone who's overly litigious (looking at you, Tolkien and GW) then there is far less room to cover your ass. That is the kind of nonsense that can and has gotten websites taken down for piracy in the past.

This isn't really a free speech argument, or an argument against translations. It's QQ's way of covering its ass if some author gets a bugbear up THEIR ass and tries to sue the site. Which is a possibility that is honestly kinda likely.

Remember that a fucking photo of a toucan took down Spacebattles because the original photographer got a bugbear up HIS ass about copyright and DCMA'd the site into shutting down. Weirder shit has happened before.

This is really the only way the QQ staff can minimize the nonsense generated by their user base. Rule's restrictive because that's the whole point - if you're trying to minimize the odds of being sued because one of your users is doing something ill-advised, the only option is to curtail user behavior somehow.

 

[AztecCroc]

I'm honestly surprised the staff thought this was a problem, tbh - I didn't think crw on this site had as many fan translations as it apparently did.

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You mostly find new fics via the search or recommendations rather than just going through the list then? Cause there were a lot.

 

[Generic_Generica]

You mostly find new fics via the search or recommendations rather than just going through the list then? Cause there were a lot.

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I'm gonna be honest, I mentally filter out something like 90% of crw at this point, and search primarily by tag or authors I know I like, because 90% of it is just unreadable.

Too many SPAG errors makes for an unhappy GG.

 

[DiabolicGod]

One more voice against the rule targetting fanfictions as well. I am no expert, so forgive some remarks if they are incorrect.

Shouldn't a disclaimer about taking it down if the original author (of the fanfiction) requests it be enough? It seems to be enough for all other kinds of media like videos and pictures, so why should this be different?

I do recall that the chinese platforms do monetize fanfictions as well, so it's a valid argument but not really because unless or until those platforms implement a translation function, it is almost certainly not economically sound to actually translate their fanfictions themselves and host them somewhere on the same monetisation model. So in the end you are back to the point where there is neither economic harm done to the authors (of the fanfictions) and little to no risk of getting bothered by lawsuits. (And even less so for QQ if you act quickly in case of complaints, like locking a thread and giving the OP (translator) a week to clarify or so before taking it down. Can't see greedy lawyers of some author in China thinking he could successfully get recompense from QQ itself with the caveat of quick response to takedown requests or complaints.)

I am not a huge fan of chinese fanfics, but some like the Hogwarts Blood Wizard are decent, so I would welcome the availability and visibility of translations, though mayhaps in the archives or new subforums instead of the regular ones to not diminish the visibility of original works on this site (as in posted by the actual author).

ps: sorry if some of the points were already answered, didn't read all 300 messages in the thread.

 

[seeing_octarine]

IP holders are in a use-it-or-loose-it dynamic. If they don't defend the IP, they lose their right to it.

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That's trademarks, not copyright. You can't lose a copyright from not enforcing it.

Also you have no idea what plagiarism and theft are, you're being a massive hypocrite in your arguments, blah blah blah. Other people have written enough paragraphs about your nonsense there.

Okay, so if I sell a copy of my book for $5 (printing cost: $3), then a publishing company takes that book and sells it for $2.50 (because they don't charge themselves as much as me), I should just suck it as they take all the profits of my hard work? I just want to be clear, this is your proposal. It's not that people will share their copy with their friends or something; without copyright ~all publishing profits will be about who controls the physical printers with 0 concern for who wrote the book.

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At the point of complete copies going around in the digital wild you should have already gotten your payment for your work. That's my proposal. Trying to make extra profit on top of that through trying to restrict what people can do with their copies in a world where making a copy of such things is so absurdly easy is a losing proposition. The available margins will quickly plummet to near zero no matter what you do.

 

[CaesarCzech]

Seems stuff like Rape in fiction is going to be banned soon as well i presume, Seems this hasnt been banned because of legal stuff with fanfiction, but more as Moralistic thing about Artist rights(the same impetus that makes certain folks Anti AI). Once folks start on the morality route its going to keep going, i dont want this place to go the route of nexus.

 

[Generic_Generica]

Shouldn't a disclaimer about taking it down if the original author (of the fanfiction) requests it be enough? It seems to be enough for all other kinds of media like videos and pictures, so why should this be different?

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This approach assumes that those requests will be taken care of immediately by QQ's staff, those requests will always come to the attention of QQ's staff, and that there's going to be enough mods to take care of requests as they come.

None of those things are ever going to be happening on a consistent enough basis for this approach to ever be feasible.

 

[Nico360]

This is nice to see. Number of threads that were just translated original brainrot was increasing, happy that they'll go away now.

One less step on my 'is this fic worth reading' checklist.

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Brainrot is an author? because I already saw that it is mentioned several times, but I can't find that account if that is the case