Rule 8. Politics. Gone. For good.

[Cherry Lover]

What about a compromise then, why not a special job for a mod be created for readers to beta stories that that might cause concern?

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Ugh, again, you're missing the point. I do not want people to have to have their fics edited by mods, I want people to be able to write whatever comes naturally.

Why? Because politics are divisive as hell and people lose their heads over it far more than any other topic.

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Yeah, and that's their problem.

You're right that we wouldn't let you, but don't lie, Mike. You be doing it in a heartbeat if you could.

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Yeah, but you'd deal with it by thread-banning me or whatever. Why can political stuff not be dealt with in the same way?

This isn't about us making a political value judgment. We're not protecting or condemning one side or the other. We're booting the entire subject, regardless of side.

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I never said you were. I said the people responding to it were.

If someone writes a story that appears to hate on one gender or treats them like shit, and it pushes your buttons... walk away. Don't read it, don't go preaching about why it's all that's wrong with the world. While the existence of genders and sex and such are inescapable, arguing over misogyny/androgyny/feminism/men's rights IS escapable by simply not doing it.

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And why can this not apply to political discussions...?

If they feel a need to write current politics into a story simply because it's been forbidden... then, they're likely to do that with anything.

And if a story or quest starts going in the direction of current political situations... don't let it go that direction, yeah? It's not trying to turn aside the ocean. A QM has the right to say no, that will get us in trouble, choose something else.

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Yeah, which is exactly my problem with it. I do not want the contents of a story dictated by forum rules. As far as I can tell, that is more-or-less the whole reason why the forum even exists, because people were sick of that happening on SB and SV. Applying it here as well is not a positive step.

Don't be stupid and use your damn brain.

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I'm not being stupid. I just don't want the mods telling me how my fic should go.

 

[tehelgee]

-snip-

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We tried lesser punishments, we tried moving it under the stricter rules of the regular boards, it didn't help. It's been going on for two months, and we just reached our limit. It was getting to the point where people were starting to see mod rulings as being politically motivated.

Therefore, gone.

 

[Xicree]

I don't see why this is should be the goal, though, honestly.

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It's very simple.


We at QQ came here so we could have a nice place where we could have fun. Where people can enjoy each other without having to look over their shoulders about one thing or another. The fact is that political discussion does not contribute to said fun, infact it drags it though the mud leaving people angry and shouting at each other.


The other fact is that political discussion has MULTITUDES of places on the internet where it's nurtured and fostered... where as Fun lewd time writing as a general rule is not.

Ie. We'd rather have fun than not, and forum drama is not actually fun for most of us.

Yeah, and that's their problem.

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The problem is that as a community, THEIR problem becomes OUR problem. We don't have many mods, and we're not looking to have a community who ends up divided oneway or another over a topic that attracts trolling and often brings out the worst in people.

We are QQ together, and I'd rather be writing/reading lewd stuff here than trying to set people on fire with my mind.

We tried lesser punishments, we tried moving it under the stricter rules of the regular boards, it didn't help. It's been going on for two months, and we just reached our limit. It was getting to the point where people were starting to see mod rulings as being politically motivated.

Therefore, gone.

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Yep... I don't think people get just how tiring it is for you guys to have to put up with this stuff... when none of you are particularly interested in it one way or another.

 

[Cherry Lover]

We tried lesser punishments, we tried moving it under the stricter rules of the regular boards, it didn't help. It's been going on for two months, and we just reached our limit. It was getting to the point where people were starting to see mod rulings as being politically motivated.

Therefore, gone.

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All of which applied to the political discussion. I cannot see any evidence of problems with political content in fics. I think you're taking this considerably further than is necessary, and also cutting into the core purpose of the forum in a very negative manner.

It's very simple.


We at QQ came here so we could have a nice place where we could have fun. Where people can enjoy each other without having to look over their shoulders about one thing or another. The fact is that political discussion does not contribute to said fun, infact it drags it though the mud leaving people angry and shouting at each other.


The other fact is that political discussion has MULTITUDES of places on the internet where it's nurtured and fostered... where as Fun lewd time writing as a general rule is not.

Ie. We'd rather have fun than not, and forum drama is not actually fun for most of us.

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But I'm not talking about political discussion. I'm talking about the content of fics. I don't give a stuff if they ban political discussion, I just don't want them limiting what people can write in actual fiction.

I do want it to be a place where people can have fun writing. To me, being forced to think "is this fic going to break site rules?" is not fun. Previously, there were few if any cases in which that could happen, but under this rule there is a whole bunch of content which is simply forbidden, and much of it is content which could naturally show up even if you're not explicitly aiming for it.

 

[Snake/Eater]

Ugh, again, you're missing the point. I do not want people to have to have their fics edited by mods, I want people to be able to write whatever comes naturally.

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But what happened Naturally is what got us here in thee first place.

We need to to compromise and build our support base and use by example a better code of conduct.

If there is a name for people who hate rule 8 then they are a member of what i'm calling ''The Hateful Eight''

 

[tehelgee]

But I'm not talking about political discussion. I'm talking about the content of fics. I don't give a stuff if they ban political discussion, I just don't want them limiting what people can write in actual fiction.

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Because allowing it in fics will provoke discussions and arguments about it. It's not rocket science, that should be obvious.

 

[Cherry Lover]

Because allowing it in fics will provoke discussions and arguments about it. It's not rocket science, that should be obvious.

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Then you ban the discussions and arguments, not the fics theirselves....

 

[tehelgee]

Then you ban the discussions and arguments, not the fics theirselves....

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Treat the disease, not the symptom.

 

[Cherry Lover]

Treat the disease, not the symptom.

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But the "disease" is the actual discussion. Trying to ban politics from fics is just plain impossible to implement in any reasonable way and ends up limiting people who aren't even interested in politics, just because of the nature of it.

 

[january1may]

I'm not saying you're intending to moderate it like that (I sure as hell hope you're not), I just feel that restricting what people can write into a fic is a bad idea, as in, potentially site-destroyingly bad. The whole point is that people should feel comfortable to post their fics here without worry, if they feel obliged to go and ask a moderator or to cut out incidental parts of the story because they happen to involve politics (as the second example does), they're likely to want to leave and go elsewhere.

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I know I'm not going to leave QQ for anywhere anytime soon, because my reason for staying here is not even as much the lewds (if it really comes down to it I'll go and join BE Archive or AO3 or something) as the Vote Thread for Ack's Omake Corner, which, as mentioned, is hardly going anywhere (unless it gets locked for all the Trump Card puns, I suppose).

I agree, however, that this might actually become a problem the moment I actually try to write any kind of lewd story - even discounting all the previously mentioned stuff, what if a character I made up turns out to be similar to (and/or share the name with) a real-life politician that I didn't know existed?
I have seen at least two independent cases on AH.com where an author made up a name for an in-story politician, and was told later by the readers that there was an actual real-life politician with essentially the same name and in about the right position, I'd rather not be worried of being infracted in any way over something like that (after all, there's really no way to prove that I actually came up with the name by myself, even if I swear I did).

Yeah, this is the thing which really, really bothers me. Suppose I start writing a fic that has nothing to do with politics and, five chapters in, the direction of discussion naturally heads towards politics, do I have to either have the characters act unnaturally or delete the fic from the forum? That sort of thing makes me very wary of even posting something in the first place.

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All of which applied to the political discussion. I cannot see any evidence of problems with political content in fics. I think you're taking this considerably further than is necessary, and also cutting into the core purpose of the forum in a very negative manner.

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Those two quotes are basically my point (though I didn't realize the latter might have actually been true).

TL/DR: I have no problem with forbidding any kind of heated political discussion, which I don't even participate in anyway; but I'd rather not be infracted because I happened to have politics in my story.

 

[Cherry Lover]

But what happened Naturally is what got us here in thee first place.

We need to to compromise and build our support base and use by example a better code of conduct.

If there is a name for people who hate rule 8 then they are a member of what i'm calling ''The Hateful Eight''

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I'm really not seeing any "compromise" here, just swinging from one extreme (which failed) to the other. I cannot see how restricting content is going to help "build the support base", to me it just discourages people from posting stuff which is based around the modern era. Because you're gonna be so hamstrung by this rule that the story is going to end up looking stupid and artificial.

 

[tehelgee]

Alright, enough with the absurd doomsday hypotheticals.

I've pretty clearly stated my point, and 'what if'ing about it isn't going to go anywhere.

 

[Cherry Lover]

Alright, enough with the absurd doomsday hypotheticals.

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I think this is a really awful and entirely unnecessary decision which makes me very uncomfortable about posting anything set in the modern era (or even the future) on this forum.

I've pretty clearly stated my point, and 'what if'ing about it isn't going to go anywhere.

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I think your "point" is absurd, but you're pretty obviously not gonna change your mind, so arguing with you about it is pointless....

 

[Snake/Eater]

I'm really not seeing any "compromise" here, just swinging from one extreme (which failed) to the other. I cannot see how restricting content is going to help "build the support base", to me it just discourages people from posting stuff which is based around the modern era. Because you're gonna be so hamstrung by this rule that the story is going to end up looking stupid and artificial.

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There is always fantasy to use as a way to get your views out to your readers.

Or writing a gangster crime story.

gangsterism, feudalism or democracy.

It not that far a stretch.

Just be patient and if you write it they will come and if there is lewd... well I don't have to paint a picture.

 

[january1may]

Alright, enough with the absurd doomsday hypotheticals.

I've pretty clearly stated my point, and 'what if'ing about it isn't going to go anywhere.

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I'd rather know in advance than get my story (or even someone else's popular story) locked (or even me/the author banned) when it actually happens in reality.

I entirely agree with The Ero-Sennin that the reasonable way would be to only infract the obvious political discussions, but I see no evidence that anything remotely similar is going to actually happen (if it really does work out that way, I applaud the new rule).

EDIT:

There is always fantasy to use as a way to get your views out to your readers.

Or writing a gangster crime story.

gangsterism, feudalism or democracy.

It not that far a stretch.

Just be patient and if you write it they wI'll come and if there is lewd... well I don't have to paint a picture.

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Sure, but it does mean that anything set in the late 20th or early 21st century (Worm, Sekirei, Buffy, most of Stargate, a significant part of Harry Potter...) is going to be very problematic (to say the least).

 

[tehelgee]

EDIT:Sure, but it does mean that anything set in the late 20th or early 21st century (Worm, Sekirei, Buffy, most of Stargate...) is going to be very problematic (to say the least).

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I don't recall Buffy ever mentioning anything about politics, I don't know a damn thing about Worm, Sekirei I only know through In Flight and that had no politics, and Stargate was US military and I still don't recall anything actually political about it(I didn't watch it a whole lot, though).

So, no, modern times are not implicitly political.

 

[Cherry Lover]

There is always fantasy to use as a way to get your views out to your readers.

Or writing a gangster crime story.

gangsterism, feudalism or democracy.

It not that far a stretch.

Just be patient and if you write it they will come and if there is lewd... well I don't have to paint a picture.

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I'm not even talking about getting political views out. If I was gonna do that, then I sure as hell wouldn't use modern political figures. It just encourages people to ignore the point you're really trying to make in favour of the more immediate one.

What I'm talking about is literally any fic or RP set in the modern era or future. As of now, either you have to pretend politics does not exist (which is not always possible) or turn it into an AU where the political situation is different. Right now, it's probably not too difficult to do that, but in four years time the world could be very different because of Trump, and I find it hard to see how you could address that in any sane manner. Not to mention all the anime and manga which already contain political figures, and those which will be made in the next four years which will do so. Those series are now completely off-limits, regardless of interest.

Politics affects everything. As such, ignoring it in a story makes the world seem flat and unrealistic. But, turning it into an AU means you have to think out how that AU will have worked. It's fine for people who aren't considering things like that too much but, for me, it would make the story or character feel unrealistic if I could not include it.

I don't recall Buffy ever mentioning anything about politics, I don't know a damn thing about Worm, Sekirei I only know through In Flight and that had no politics, and Stargate was US military and I still don't recall anything actually political about it(I didn't watch it a whole lot, though).

So, no, modern times are not implicitly political.

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Stargate almost certainly did mention politics on occasion. Of course, I'm pretty sure they very carefully avoided using the RL politicians, simply because they knew of the potential blow-back that would come from it. Other shows may not feel the same way, though....

 

[Code_Xana]

So I'm just a lurker, but I've got to say, this is a great decision. Seems to me that Politics never ends well. Best to keep this place for story creation.

 

[Cherry Lover]

So I'm just a lurker, but I've got to say, this is a great decision. Seems to me that Politics never ends well. Best to keep this place for story creation.

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Except, apparently, for stories which happen to include RL politics in any way, even entirely incidentally....

 

[Biigoh]

Current events showing up in current day quests/fics would be fine.

And before you guys quibble, Worm takes place in 2011 and has a different president than Obama. Its a noted thing that political figures are different.

Buffy is premillenium, ditto with Sailor Moon, Ranma, Fate/Zero. Star Gate SG1, Fate/Stay Night are just after and the timeline changes fast. Star Trek? Right now would be the Eugenics War or World War 3 so erm.... yeah. Fate/Grand Order is future with time travel.

They wouldn't hit modern day politics unless you push for it.

And if your quest or story is political in a way you feel could run afoul of rule 8, talk to us mods or staff and we can go over it.

In short, we're not unreasonable especially if the rarest superpower, common sense, is applied.

 

[The Ero-Sennin]

Sweet Bender chatting with God, here's how I see it and mods correct me if I am wrong:

Say I wanna write a westernized and current version of Akumetsu, with pastiches of western politicians. This story in political in of itself in theme, and therefore could run afoul of Rule 8.

If it flies, I'm clear. Anyone who turns my thread into a political shitstorm is on notice.

However, if that doesn't fly, I can take it to SB or SV where it will. It's not unreasonable, and if the mods don't want it, then it doesn't sail.

This is their forum. We have to abide by the forum's rules, especially if we don't want the alternative: people arguing with each other more than writing. I saw that shit on old TFF, and I don't want it here.

 

[Biigoh]

Sweet Bender chatting with God, here's how I see it and mods correct me if I am wrong:

Say I wanna write a westernized and current version of Akumetsu, with pastiches of western politicians. This story in political in of itself in theme, and therefore could run afoul of Rule 8.

If it flies, I'm clear. Anyone who turns my thread into a political shitstorm is on notice.

However, if that doesn't fly, I can take it to SB or SV where it will. It's not unreasonable, and if the mods don't want it, then it doesn't sail.

This is their forum. We have to abide by the forum's rules, especially if we don't want the alternative: people arguing with each other more than writing. I saw that shit on old TFF, and I don't want it here.

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Pretty much this... mind you, Akumetsu would not fly on SB or SV due to that manga's opening scene. ^_^;;;

 

[UrsaTempest]

I think "you can always post them somewhere else" is not in any way a valid answer to my point. Also, what if it contains porn?

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It is valid, at least in regard of QQ. Remember QQ started as splinter board of SB, and while some of the users loathed SV... we still consider them as much part of QQ as SB. And so on.

It's a bit silly posting political story/quest on QQ, especially IRL, current one, because frankly our SFW board traffic sucks. You'd better served posting it somewhere else, unless your idea really involve porn.

In that case, post the safe bits there and the porny bits here. That's how it usually goes, anyway.

 

[Cherry Lover]

It is valid, at least in regard of QQ. Remember QQ started as splinter board of SB, and while some of the users loathed SV... we still consider them as much part of QQ as SB. And so on.

It's a bit silly posting political story/quest on QQ, especially IRL, current one, because frankly our SFW board traffic sucks. You'd better served posting it somewhere else, unless your idea really involve porn.

In that case, post the safe bits there and the porny bits here. That's how it usually goes, anyway.

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Eh, like I said, I'm not worried about political stories. I'm worried about being forced to ignore politics in non-political stories.

 

[Van Ropen]

Is there or has there been a single fic or quest on QQ that runs afoul of rule 8?

 

[Biigoh]

Eh, like I said, I'm not worried about political stories. I'm worried about being forced to ignore politics in non-political stories.

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To be honest, you're not going to be forced to ignore politics in a non-political story or quest or game. If politics shows up and makes sense in context of the story or quest or game, by all means that's fine.

What's not fine is the shitshow that comes from political discussions.

 

[Cherry Lover]

Is there or has there been a single fic or quest on QQ that runs afoul of rule 8?

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I would say "almost certainly yes, but likely not many which did so in a fundamental way". As in, lots probably have vague mentions of political stuff which would fit, but few if any go into it to a level which would make it impossible to fit if you wanted to.

To be honest, you're not going to be forced to ignore politics in a non-political story or quest or game. If politics shows up and makes sense in context of the story or quest or game, by all means that's fine.

What's not fine is the shitshow that comes from political discussions.

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This isn't what the admins seem to be saying, though. Tehelgee was arguing that you absolutely would be obliged to do that....

Can you guys please give a consistent policy on this? It's kinda hard to know what is and isn't OK if you're all saying different things....

 

[2 Hot Crown Subdues the Sinful]

At first I was "wait, rule 8?" and then I realized "politics ban is rule 8"

 

[magic9mushroom]

I don't know a damn thing about Worm

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The relevant bits would be a neo-Nazi villainous gang and a lesbian villain in the backstory who wanted to literally kill all men. Neither was the main focus of the canon story, but there are fics here that do focus on them.

Because allowing it in fics will provoke discussions and arguments about it. It's not rocket science, that should be obvious.

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To be honest, you're not going to be forced to ignore politics in a non-political story or quest or game. If politics shows up and makes sense in context of the story or quest or game, by all means that's fine.

What's not fine is the shitshow that comes from political discussions.

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I'm not really seeing how to reconcile these, to be honest, which just leaves me confused.

 

[ultima333]

i think it's less a "ban on all politics" and more a "ban on politics that would cause shitstorms and headaches"
pretty sure the mods would be fine with Worm, given that there haven't been any shitstorms from the non-RL politics in wormfics.
Biigoh confirm?

I think you're looking too much into this, magic9mushroom