• The site has now migrated to Xenforo 2. If you see any issues with the forum operation, please post them in the feedback thread.
  • Due to issues with external spam filters, QQ is currently unable to send any mail to Microsoft E-mail addresses. This includes any account at live.com, hotmail.com or msn.com. Signing up to the forum with one of these addresses will result in your verification E-mail never arriving. For best results, please use a different E-mail provider for your QQ address.
  • For prospective new members, a word of warning: don't use common names like Dennis, Simon, or Kenny if you decide to create an account. Spammers have used them all before you and gotten those names flagged in the anti-spam databases. Your account registration will be rejected because of it.
  • Since it has happened MULTIPLE times now, I want to be very clear about this. You do not get to abandon an account and create a new one. You do not get to pass an account to someone else and create a new one. If you do so anyway, you will be banned for creating sockpuppets.
  • Due to the actions of particularly persistent spammers and trolls, we will be banning disposable email addresses from today onward.
  • The rules regarding NSFW links have been updated. See here for details.

Tech advice requested

Reader mode
doomlord9 said:
Hmmm....how difficult is this to do? Just flip a few settings in bios or the appropriate driver software or do I have to fiddle with connections and those stupid jumper settings?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
It's basically one setting in the driver you have to flip, and for newer software you need a new driver release that includes optimizations for it in the game you want to play.

It's really damn easy nowadays.

DX12 is looking like it will eliminate a lot of bullshit associated with needing optimized drivers. So it's only going to get easier.
 
I do believe the graphics cards used need to be identical for SLI (Scalable Link Interface)/Crossfire to work.

Don't take my word as law though, I've never actually setup a multi-GPU system, so I have no practical experience with it, and last time I studied them... they were new technology (read: 15 or so years ago).

But yea... If you have a choice between 1 graphics card or 2 graphics cards hooked together with SLI/Crossfire, and on paper the stats add up to about the same... The SLI/Crossfire setup will win out in performance almost every time.

Often, cards for SLI/Crossfire are sold together, so you don't need to worry about buying them separately (at least that's how I see them on tigerdirect all the time...).
 
You know what, fuckit I'm already going all out might as well double my graphics processing power as is. Throw a good dual graphics card setup in there.
 
Setup 2
  • Threadmarks
    • doomlord9 said:
    You know what, fuckit I'm already going all out might as well double my graphics processing power as is. Throw a good dual graphics card setup in there.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    Ok, Updated the build list a bit for you to better account for your needs and desires.

    PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

    CPU: Intel Core i7-6700K 4.0GHz Quad-Core Processor ($369.90 @ B&H)
    CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-D15 82.5 CFM CPU Cooler ($93.19 @ Newegg)
    Motherboard: MSI Z170A GAMING M3 ATX LGA1151 Motherboard ($144.99 @ SuperBiiz)
    Memory: Corsair Vengeance LPX 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-2666 Memory ($124.99 @ Newegg)
    Storage: Samsung 850 EVO-Series 500GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($164.89 @ OutletPC)
    Video Card: MSI Radeon R9 390 8GB Video Card (2-Way CrossFire) ($329.98 @ SuperBiiz)
    Video Card: MSI Radeon R9 390 8GB Video Card (2-Way CrossFire) ($329.98 @ SuperBiiz)
    Case: Fractal Design Define R5 (Black) ATX Mid Tower Case ($107.99 @ SuperBiiz)
    Power Supply: EVGA 1000W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($134.99 @ NCIX US)
    Optical Drive: LG WH16NS40 Blu-Ray/DVD/CD Writer ($49.99 @ Newegg)
    Operating System: Microsoft Windows 10 Home Full - USB (32/64-bit) ($115.49 @ Adorama)
    Keyboard: Corsair K70 RGB Wired Gaming Keyboard ($165.98 @ Directron)
    Mouse: Mionix NAOS 7000 Wired Optical Mouse ($69.99 @ Amazon)
    Total: $2202.35
    Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
    Generated by PCPartPicker 2015-09-15 09:41 EDT-0400

    edale said:
    I do believe the graphics cards used need to be identical for SLI (Scalable Link Interface)/Crossfire to work.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    Right now, yes they do.

    DX12 adds new possibilities for mismatched adapter usage should developer take advantage of it.
     
  • Threadmarks
    • seeing_octarine said:
    This phrase has been the death knell of many a hardware innovation, unfortunately.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    A lot of the hyperbole people spout about DX12 is like that.

    It has a lot of features it brings sure, but some of them dont work like people think they do.

    Like Vram stacking.

    So many people are tired of their cards having 4-8 gb of Vram, and when they add another card for SLI/Xfire they are annoyed when the added card gives no improvement in pool size.

    That's because with Sli/Xfire, pools are simply mirrored between the cards rather than stacked.

    But DX12 brings the possibility to stack pools, which people interpret incorrectly. They think in a stacked configuration, that everything will work out just fine...

    Except there are a myriad of reasons why they never did it before.
     
    Fuck that's getting up there in price...nothing I really want to downgrade though and I do need a new keyboard and mouse. Sorta thinking about upgrading to 32 GB of RAM as well.

    This thing is gonna be a beast once I actually get it.

    No monitor though, already got that taken care of a few months ago.

    A decent, but not expensive, set a speakers would be appreciated as well, mine are getting kinda staticy due to age.

    Seclorum said:
    A lot of the hyperbole people spout about DX12 is like that.

    It has a lot of features it brings sure, but some of them dont work like people think they do.

    Like Vram stacking.

    So many people are tired of their cards having 4-8 gb of Vram, and when they add another card for SLI/Xfire they are annoyed when the added card gives no improvement in pool size.

    That's because with Sli/Xfire, pools are simply mirrored between the cards rather than stacked.

    But DX12 brings the possibility to stack pools, which people interpret incorrectly. They think in a stacked configuration, that everything will work out just fine...

    Except there are a myriad of reasons why they never did it before.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    Is this going to have an affect on my usage or is this a minmaxer thing? I'm perfectly finer with lower my graphics quality to improve performance, I don't need Ultra-Extreme settings to be happy. I more want to be able to play anything I want and have the game run in a usable fashion.
     
    doomlord9 said:
    Fuck that's getting up there in price...nothing I really want to downgrade though and I do need a new keyboard and mouse. Sorta thinking about upgrading to 32 GB of RAM as well.

    This thing is gonna be a beast once I actually get it.

    No monitor though, already got that taken care of a few months ago.

    A decent, but not expensive, set a speakers would be appreciated as well, mine are getting kinda staticy due to age.



    Is this going to have an affect on my usage or is this a minmaxer thing? I'm perfectly finer with lower my graphics quality to improve performance, I don't need Ultra-Extreme settings to be happy. I more want to be able to play anything I want and have the game run in a usable fashion.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    Yeah the first thing I would drop would be the 2nd graphics card. You dont really need it. That would shave 350 off your cost, putting it back under 2k.

    And nothing needs 32gb of ram. Any more than 8gb is a bit excessive and 16 is pretty generous as it is. Luckily you have 4 slots and I only selected 2 8gb sticks. So you could throw another two 8gb sticks in at a later date to bring it up to 32 if you need to.

    As for speakers, anymore pretty much anything is decent.
     
    Seclorum said:
    Yeah the first thing I would drop would be the 2nd graphics card. You dont really need it. That would shave 350 off your cost, putting it back under 2k.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    What kind of performance loss are we looking at with that? I'm looking at 5-10 years before this comp is replaced, or hopefully even upgraded, and does it seem feasible that the second would make it last the distance if one would not?

    I haven't kept up with tech trends at all so I'm not sure of the progression rate it's at right now.

    Seclorum said:
    And nothing needs 32gb of ram. Any more than 8gb is a bit excessive and 16 is pretty generous as it is. Luckily you have 4 slots and I only selected 2 8gb sticks. So you could throw another two 8gb sticks in at a later date to bring it up to 32 if you need to.

    As for speakers, anymore pretty much anything is decent.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    Are there any potential problems with putting in RAM of different brand in together if I do it later and that particular RAM stick is unavailable?
     
    doomlord9 said:
    What kind of performance loss are we looking at with that? I'm looking at 5-10 years before this comp is replaced, or hopefully even upgraded, and does it seem feasible that the second would make it last the distance if one would not?

    I haven't kept up with tech trends at all so I'm not sure of the progression rate it's at right now.



    Are there any potential problems with putting in RAM of different brand in together if I do it later and that particular RAM stick is unavailable?
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    For a five year cycle you would be looking at wanting a new graphics card anyway, let along ten years. Not even SLI/Xfire would make the stretch.

    The tech for Gfx technology is advancing at a massive rate.

    And for the most part mixing ram isn't a big problem. So long as the capacities and interface are right, they should work.
     
    Got my case in the mail and I'm getting set up for assembly. Any tips on that front? I've got rubber mats and an anti-static wrist strap but the table I'm using is on a rug on an otherwise wooden floor. Any danger of ESD there?
     
    Smuthunter said:
    Got my case in the mail and I'm getting set up for assembly. Any tips on that front? I've got rubber mats and an anti-static wrist strap but the table I'm using is on a rug on an otherwise wooden floor. Any danger of ESD there?
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    ESD is really an overblown threat with some simple precautions.

    First, when setting up, Realize that your case has a metal frame and hopefully metal panels. To discharge Static, just touch a big hunk of metal, like your case.

    The first component I suggest installing into the case, is the power supply. You only need to screw it in, it's basically immune to ESD anyway, and it provides the grounding path to completely ground out your build.

    Once it's nice and screwed in, Plug in the power cord to it, but dont flip the switch to turn it on.

    That third peg in the plug does all the work for keeping your system static free. It's the grounding wire, which goes to the common ground installed when your house or building was constructed.

    Just having it plugged in, gives static a viable grounding path that's enormously preferable to arcing or discharging to sensitive components, and with the plug in place and hooked up into the power supply, it turns your entire case into a viable ground.

    Now you can clip the strap to the metal frame of the case or the metal of the power supply and be constantly static free, but it's really not nessicary so long as you touch the metal ground from time to time to discharge anything you have built up in the short time since you last touched it.
     
    Of course, if you are wearing shoes and the table is wood there's no need for even those precautions.
     
    Seclorum said:
    Now you can clip the strap to the metal frame of the case or the metal of the power supply and be constantly static free, but it's really not nessicary so long as you touch the metal ground from time to time to discharge anything you have built up in the short time since you last touched it.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    It takes a 200V static discharge to damage the more sensitive computer components, it takes a 2000V static discharge for you to feel the static discharge.

    After the case is grounded via the power supply (keep the power supply switched off, just being plugged in will ground it out), you can get away with not using the anti-static wrist strap, but you need to keep an arm in constant contact with the case for this (when doing this, I usually rest my elbow on it so I can still work with both hands; no long-sleeves though, needs to be skin contact), especially when handling the CPU, RAM, and graphics cards.

    More often than not, I find using the strap more convenient.
     
    vyor said:
    I have never heard this... actually, I've never heard of the first part either. Do you have a cite?
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    Eh, I'd have to dig out my old college textbooks (computer technologies major) for the cite on where I got it from, but I'll do some google-fu and see if I can't find something.

    *edit-
    http://www.webopedia.com/DidYouKnow/Computer_Science/static.asp
    10V static discharge needed to damage a CPU.
    1500V for a human to feel the discharge.

    *edit2-
    http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=812518
    This one has damage potentially occurring as low as 1v is static discharge, but agrees with me on the 2000V for a human to feel it.


    So yea, plenty of different sites back me up. Easy to find too.
     
    Last edited:
    I'll have to remember that and snag one of those straps as well.

    Also for the setup, I am thinking 2 SSD, one for OS and then one for large intensive games, then 32 GB of RAM and using DimmDrive(I snagged it while it was still on sale) for temporary no-write-limit SSD if I really want the speed boost on lesser games installed on a normal HDD to save the precious and limited write limit on the SSD.

    Is there a reason this idea is not a good plan and if I do it repeatedly will it extend the life of my dedicated game SSD?

    Also is it a good idea to dedicate my OS to an SSD or will that rapidly drain the write limit for that drive?
     
    doomlord9 said:
    Also is it a good idea to dedicate my OS to an SSD or will that rapidly drain the write limit for that drive?
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    Conventional wisdom is HDD for OS, SSD for games.

    Really though, you can get away with a tiny little 40-60 GB HDD for the OS if you plan to install all your applications and games on the SSD.

    Anti-Static bands are only like $5, but if you really want one in a pinch, just take a wire (almost any wire will work) strip both ends, tie/clip one end on the case, and attach the other to a metal bracelet (or ring, or even necklace, anything conductive that remains in constant contact with your skin).
     
    Last edited:
    doomlord9 said:
    I'll have to remember that and snag one of those straps as well.

    Also for the setup, I am thinking 2 SSD, one for OS and then one for large intensive games, then 32 GB of RAM and using DimmDrive(I snagged it while it was still on sale) for temporary no-write-limit SSD if I really want the speed boost on lesser games installed on a normal HDD to save the precious and limited write limit on the SSD.

    Is there a reason this idea is not a good plan and if I do it repeatedly will it extend the life of my dedicated game SSD?

    Also is it a good idea to dedicate my OS to an SSD or will that rapidly drain the write limit for that drive?
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    It's an alright plan.

    Can be somewhat pricey but it is perfectly workable.

    The DimmDrive wont really speed up your games over an SSD. Your bottlenecked by how fast your processor can execute instructions.

    And using it wont really extend the write limit of the SSD. SSD's anymore come with limits in the hundreds of terabytes of writes over nearly a decade of waranty. Unless your doing something really extreme, every day, for a decade, your probably not going to hit the limit. Most SSD's either come with MFG software to keep up to date on the drives status, or you can find software that can read the S.M.A.R.T data that all drives as a standard, have to keep.

    And as for what to stick on which SSD,

    Your OS has a lot of little files, most of which dont change significantly. It's a good idea to have the OS on the SSD because it drastically speeds up boot times and day to day usage.

    Games on the other hand, tend to have a lot of large files, which can change significantly. It's a good idea to have them on an SSD if your playing them a lot.

    There is no reason why you couldn't have both on the same ssd and just have one large drive. Unless you do something crazy, like redownload your entire steam library, every day, for years... your not going to hit the write limit. And neither will windows.
     
    Seclorum said:
    The DimmDrive wont really speed up your games over an SSD. Your bottlenecked by how fast your processor can execute instructions.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    Yeah I was more thinking of installing the game in question on a HDD, then if I really needed to boost the speed load speed load up Dimmdrive and get the speed of an SSD but without actually putting it on the SSD.

    From what I looked up, RAM drives and SSD are mostly equal in load speed, bottle-necked by the CPU as you said, so I was looking at the RAM drive as a way to get SSD speeds without draining the write limit of an SSD.

    Seclorum said:
    ANd using it wont really extend the write limit of the SSD. SSD's anymore come with limits in the hundreds of terabytes of writes over nearly a decade of waranty. Unless your doing something really extreme, every day, for a decade, your probably not going to hit the limit. Most SSD's either come with MFG software to keep up to date on the drives status, or you can find software that can read the S.M.A.R.T data that all drives as a standard, have to keep.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    This does make me reconsider though. I just saw 'hard limit until failure' and went into maximum conservation mode.

    Is there degradation in performance the closer an SSD gets to the write limit?

    Seclorum said:
    And as for what to stick on which SSD,

    Your OS has a lot of little files, most of which dont change significantly. It's a good idea to have the OS on the SSD because it drastically speeds up boot times and day to day usage.

    Games on the other hand, tend to have a lot of large files, which can change significantly. It's a good idea to have them on an SSD if your playing them a lot.

    There is no reason why you couldn't have both on the same ssd and just have one large drive. Unless you do something crazy, like redownload your entire steam library, every day, for years... your not going to hit the write limit. And neither will windows.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    Wouldn't there still be a reduction in load times due to the drive accessing both at the same time, doubling the load on the connection rather than having them both work on their own connection?
     
    doomlord9 said:
    From what I looked up, RAM drives and SSD are mostly equal in load speed, bottle-necked by the CPU as you said, so I was looking at the RAM drive as a way to get SSD speeds without draining the write limit of an SSD.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    At that point you have to compare the relative cost of the two solutions against each other.

    The extra 16gb of Ram your slapping into your system will run you around 130bucks.

    A cheap SSD to hold ten times that, 160gb, is around 70 bucks.

    It's really just not worth it.

    doomlord9 said:
    Is there degradation in performance the closer an SSD gets to the write limit?
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    Some, but not really noticeable. The drives come with a LOT of extra space that as blocks go bad, the drive will stop using the bad blocks and start using one of the saved blocks.

    doomlord9 said:
    Wouldn't there still be a reduction in load times due to the drive accessing both at the same time, doubling the load on the connection rather than having them both work on their own connection?
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    That's where the SSD's raw speed comes into play. No moving parts to wait on. The limit is really how fast your processor can go through everything your asking it to load.
     
    Seclorum said:
    At that point you have to compare the relative cost of the two solutions against each other.

    The extra 16gb of Ram your slapping into your system will run you around 130bucks.

    A cheap SSD to hold ten times that, 160gb, is around 70 bucks.

    It's really just not worth it.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    It was half wanted for RAM drive potential and the other half was to have 32 GB of RAM available when not using it as a temp SSD.

    Sorta-kinda thinking about future-proofing on that front as well, unless it looks like a new version of DDR would come out making 8 GB of the new version more effective than the 32 GB I would have if I tried that.

    That and I tend to run my comp hard. Lots of things going and if it's not slowly down, that just means I have more room to leave this on because I use it sometimes and I use that as well every now and then, and I kinda like this....

    Yeah, I know the best solution is to just not do that but I can't help it.
     
    doomlord9 said:
    It was half wanted for RAM drive potential and the other half was to have 32 GB of RAM available when not using it as a temp SSD.

    Sorta-kinda thinking about future-proofing on that front as well, unless it looks like a new version of DDR would come out making 8 GB of the new version more effective than the 32 GB I would have if I tried that.

    That and I tend to run my comp hard. Lots of things going and if it's not slowly down, that just means I have more room to leave this on because I use it sometimes and I use that as well every now and then, and I kinda like this....

    Yeah, I know the best solution is to just not do that but I can't help it.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    Yeah, future proofing isn't really something that turns out too well in most cases.

    By the time you will be able to run enough stuff, to make 32gb of Ram worthwhile, your likely going to need a major upgrade like a CPU anyway. Which frequently for those long of timescales, necessitates getting new Ram because the tech has advanced to a new specification and MFG's dont often support the older specs of Ram when they move up.

    Right now, 8gb of Ram is more than enough for real world usage, 16 is well over provisioned, and 32 is just crazy... for most people and use cases. If you were say rendering LOTS of high bitrate video, then more ram makes sense.
     
    Or you want to play whatever the next crisis will be :p
     
    vyor said:
    Or you want to play whatever the next crisis will be :p
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    Which wont be for a few years at least, and even then... it more likely you would need a GFX card update before you would need more system ram.

    Vram pools are ballooning at explosive rates, and tech is coming out to support that massive expansion.

    Late next year and going into 2017 there will be the possibility of Gfx cards exceeding 32gb of Vram!

    Which is just gonzo crazy amounts... to the degree that your getting close to loading the entire games assets into Vram full time rather than just what it needs for the current scene.

    System ram is not used as much by comparison as it's mostly dealing with game logic which is much simpler and more compressed than textures and model assets that just gobble up the space.
     
    Reader mode
    You must log in or register to reply here.

    Users who are viewing this thread

    Total: 1 (members: 0, guests: 1)
    Back
    Top