Tech advice requested

wayne82444 · Sep 16, 2015

doomlord9 said:
That and I tend to run my comp hard. Lots of things going and if it's not slowly down, that just means I have more room to leave this on because I use it sometimes and I use that as well every now and then, and I kinda like this....

Yeah, I know the best solution is to just not do that but I can't help it.

I know your pain. 305 tabs open in Firefox right now, and I actually run 5 browsers regularly. 6 sometimes, although Vivaldi is still pretty slow (something that makes a lot of sense when you realize it is still only on tech preview 4, not even being a full browser just yet). 4 of those browsers are constantly running at least 1 flash game, which can't be helping my computer any.

vyor · Sep 17, 2015

Seclorum said:
Which wont be for a few years at least, and even then... it more likely you would need a GFX card update before you would need more system ram.

Vram pools are ballooning at explosive rates, and tech is coming out to support that massive expansion.

Late next year and going into 2017 there will be the possibility of Gfx cards exceeding 32gb of Vram!

Which is just gonzo crazy amounts... to the degree that your getting close to loading the entire games assets into Vram full time rather than just what it needs for the current scene.

System ram is not used as much by comparison as it's mostly dealing with game logic which is much simpler and more compressed than textures and model assets that just gobble up the space.

You ignored the smilie...

Seclorum · Sep 17, 2015

wayne82444 said:
I know your pain. 305 tabs open in Firefox right now

I never understood why people do this.

If I'm not actively using a page I'll close the tab. I'll bookmark something to look at later before I keep that many tabs open.

vyor · Sep 17, 2015

Seclorum said:
I never understood why people do this.

If I'm not actively using a page I'll close the tab. I'll bookmark something to look at later before I keep that many tabs open.

I only do it because it is, strangely, faster when I open tabs that way. Sure, opening it from 1 main page and pressing the back button makes 1 page load faster, but doing it the other way means that I can have them all loaded by the time I finish the 2nd or 3rd page.

My computer is weird.

Although, 305 tabs is a bit much.

doomlord9 · Sep 17, 2015

405 tabs spread across 4 browser windows right now.

Do note that when you close and re-open your browser the tabs are still there but they are not loaded until you go to that tab again.

This is because I won't remember something like a bookmark and even if I do forget to look at whatever is in that tab I'll see it later when I look through the 'open tabs' list.

Several are because of leaving it open to the last post of a fic thread, so I can check for updates by just going to the tab and seeing if there is a 'next' threadmark button on the latest story post.

As to actual setup, throw in a 1 TB HDD into the setup as well for general storage, remove the second video card.

Couple of questions that come to mind.

Does that fan have the correct connector placement to attach to that motherboard?

Does the Win 10 on a USB stick come with a replacement guarantee if it is damaged, lost, magnetized, ect, ect ?

Smuthunter · Sep 17, 2015

Mwahahaha, mission accomplished! Had to spend most of the afternoon getting drivers and security updates and stuff installed but this battlestation is now fully-armed and operational!

wayne82444 · Sep 17, 2015

Yeah, in my case it is more of a bad habit than anything. I open a tab fully intending to read it at some point, but then put it off and never really come back to it. I also keep a bunch open to check for updates and such, but that is a much more reasonable number (maybe 20-30 tabs at any given time for updates?). I should probably go through and close some of those tabs, but like doomlord said most of them aren't actively loaded since I have restarted my browser since opening them.

Seclorum · Sep 17, 2015

doomlord9 said:
405 tabs spread across 4 browser windows right now.

Jesus christ!

doomlord9 said:
Do note that when you close and re-open your browser the tabs are still there but they are not loaded until you go to that tab again.

Yep. At least with sensible browsers they dont get loaded until you look at them at least once.

doomlord9 said:
Several are because of leaving it open to the last post of a fic thread, so I can check for updates by just going to the tab and seeing if there is a 'next' threadmark button on the latest story post.

Well that at least explains it for the most part.

You could consolidate it down to just checking your Watched Threads page for each forum, SB, SV, QQ. A good 99% of the threads I watch, I just skim until I see something interesting or a new story post. Then again, I read and skim FAST.

doomlord9 said:
As to actual setup, throw in a 1 TB HDD into the setup as well for general storage, remove the second video card.

Anymore a general storage drive should be around 2-4TB in size for the cost. Otherwise just get a single 1tb SSD and if you need more space later on, you can always add more.

But I agree with removing the 2nd video card.

doomlord9 said:
Does that fan have the correct connector placement to attach to that motherboard?

The Evo? Yeah. LGA1151 uses the exact same backplate and connector assembly as LGA1150.

doomlord9 said:
Does the Win 10 on a USB stick come with a replacement guarantee if it is damaged, lost, magnetized, ect, ect ?

Flash drives are not suceptable to weak magnetic fields. A magnetic field strong enough to damage it will crush it.

Also, the code that comes with it is the real important bit. With that, you can download a Windows ISO file and slap it on pretty much anything that will fit it. The actual drive part is just a fast and convenient way of installing it.

Smuthunter said:
Mwahahaha, mission accomplished! Had to spend most of the afternoon getting drivers and security updates and stuff installed but this battlestation is now fully-armed and operational!

Do what must be done! Do not hesitate, show no mercy.

doomlord9 · Sep 17, 2015

Seclorum said:
Jesus christ!

Yep. At least with sensible browsers they dont get loaded until you look at them at least once.

Well that at least explains it for the most part.

I use each window for different things. once is for youtube, steam, early access/non-steam game websites so I can check the news on the ones I am interested in, the second is all my 'I swear I'll read this fic....sometime' with....alot of ff.net tabs, the third is forums and whatnot, and the forth is for random misc stuff.

Yes 'random misc stuff' often translates to 'random misc porn'.

Seclorum said:
Anymore a general storage drive should be around 2-4TB in size for the cost. Otherwise just get a single 1tb SSD and if you need more space later on, you can always add more.

But I agree with removing the 2nd video card.

...woah, drive size must have seriously gone up since I last checked. Last I knew 1 TB was massively overkill.

Yeah if it's not too much go ahead and throw on a 2-4 TB HDD. I have lots of stuff that has no need to be put on an SSD and even with the large write limit on them, it would still drive me nuts to do so knowing that I am draining a limited resource every time I saved a pic or something.

I have a touch of OCD if you haven't noticed. Not enough that I can't function if something sets it off but it's like sand in my shoe.

Seclorum said:
The Evo? Yeah. LGA1151 uses the exact same backplate and connector assembly as LGA1150.

Nifty, I had just remembered I had a small issue with not checking that when I had to replace my CPU fan once.

Seclorum said:
Flash drives are not suceptable to weak magnetic fields. A magnetic field strong enough to damage it will crush it.

Also, the code that comes with it is the real important bit. With that, you can download a Windows ISO file and slap it on pretty much anything that will fit it. The actual drive part is just a fast and convenient way of installing it.

Ahh, ok. So I'll just have to figure out a place to store the code and be able to remember where it actually is.

Hmmmm...how does reinstalling your OS on an SSD work? I usually would just format the partition so I would get a fresh install but that sounds like a bad idea for an SSD.

subsider34 · Sep 17, 2015

doomlord9 said:
Also is it a good idea to dedicate my OS to an SSD or will that rapidly drain the write limit for that drive?

Seclorum said:
Some, but not really noticeable. The drives come with a LOT of extra space that as blocks go bad, the drive will stop using the bad blocks and start using one of the saved blocks.

If you're going the SSD route, make sure that your drive is overprovisioned. Most drives these days come with a manufacturer mandated minimum level of overprovisioning, but manually increasing that by a few percent will will improve lifespan and performance by giving the SSD more space to run file delete operations, garbage collection, TRIM, and will help prevent write amplification. It used to be that you had to do some finagling to make the drive recognize overprovisioned space as such, but nowadays you can do that just by leaving some of your SSD capacity unallocated.

Unless you really need the space, try to leave ~3-7% of the drive's capacity unallocated. You can always use Disk Management to change the size of the volume later if you end up needing the space. But if you don't the extended lifespan and somewhat improved performance are nice benefits.

doomlord9 · Sep 17, 2015

Oh yeah, one more question, what's the functional difference between home and pro for the Windows installation.

I have usually bought Pro when possible because I was under the impression that Home typically has a massive amount of idiot proofing I would have to fight against to do something it sees as protected. Which is something I really don't need because if I really fuck it up I just shrug, do a reinstall, and then don't do that again.

Seclorum · Sep 17, 2015

doomlord9 said:
Hmmmm...how does reinstalling your OS on an SSD work? I usually would just format the partition so I would get a fresh install but that sounds like a bad idea for an SSD.

It can work much the same way, but since Windows 8, microsoft has included an option to "Refresh" an OS, meaning it goes through and wipes stuff that's not part of a default install and it returns everything to a default install state. Much quicker an easier than a full wipe and reinstall.

doomlord9 said:
Oh yeah, one more question, what's the functional difference between home and pro for the Windows installation.

You get a couple extra "Professional" tools for networking. Access to full disk encryption, and that's about it.

In terms of normal functionality, you get basically nothing extra unless your a technical user.

vyor · Sep 17, 2015

doomlord9 said:
Oh yeah, one more question, what's the functional difference between home and pro for the Windows installation.

I have usually bought Pro when possible because I was under the impression that Home typically has a massive amount of idiot proofing I would have to fight against to do something it sees as protected. Which is something I really don't need because if I really fuck it up I just shrug, do a reinstall, and then don't do that again.

Seclorum said:
You get a couple extra "Professional" tools for networking. Access to full disk encryption, and that's about it.

In terms of normal functionality, you get basically nothing extra unless your a technical user.

You can also, depending on the version, get word, excel, and similar programs.

Seclorum · Sep 17, 2015

vyor said:
You can also, depending on the version, get word, excel, and similar programs.

Yeah Windows 10 Pro doesn't come with those this time.

Microsoft wants you to subscribe to MS 365 and "Rent" those programs instead of buy them.

vyor · Sep 17, 2015

Seclorum said:
Yeah Windows 10 Pro doesn't come with those this time.

Microsoft wants you to subscribe to MS 365 and "Rent" those programs instead of buy them.

God damnit.

doomlord9 · Sep 17, 2015

Seclorum said:
It can work much the same way, but since Windows 8, microsoft has included an option to "Refresh" an OS, meaning it goes through and wipes stuff that's not part of a default install and it returns everything to a default install state. Much quicker an easier than a full wipe and reinstall.

Well that sounds interesting. Does it actually work though? I remember on my brother's laptop the 'restore install' was pretty much useless. Not sure which windows version it was though

Seclorum said:
You get a couple extra "Professional" tools for networking. Access to full disk encryption, and that's about it.

In terms of normal functionality, you get basically nothing extra unless your a technical user.

Huh....well that's good to know

vyor said:
You can also, depending on the version, get word, excel, and similar programs.

Seclorum said:
Yeah Windows 10 Pro doesn't come with those this time.

Microsoft wants you to subscribe to MS 365 and "Rent" those programs instead of buy them.

It's a good thing I really don't use those anyway. OpenOffice or Googledocs are free and work just fine for my needs if I actually have some reason to make a document.

thelegendarysupernerd · Sep 17, 2015

I recommend checking /r/cabalofthebuildsmiths and /r/buildapcforme on reddit. That's how I built mine.

Seclorum · Sep 18, 2015

doomlord9 said:
Well that sounds interesting. Does it actually work though? I remember on my brother's laptop the 'restore install' was pretty much useless. Not sure which windows version it was though

Yeah it works pretty well. Mainly because it's not like the old vendor based "Restore" where there is a seperate partition, it's based on data Microsoft has about what should and should not be on a fresh install. So it's pretty thurough and it also refreshes the registry, one of the big reasons to do it in the first place.

doomlord9 · Sep 19, 2015

Ok, this looks like it coming together.

Can I get another build, drop the second video card, add a second 250 GB SSD, and add a large HDD.

Would it be worth bumping the 500 GB SSD up to a 1 TB SSD? I'm thinking the 250 for my OS and active programs, the other SSD for games, and then the HDD for everything else.

Hmmm...oh! I just thought about something else. On my other comps I had a tendency to make my OS partition pretty small, less than 20 GB for this current one I think. This became an issue because several programs and games like to save a ton of crap to the documents folder without informing me of where they are going, Minecraft being a big name I can think of offhand. Is there a way to auto-redirect these things towards a different drive or do I just suck it up and deal with it being one more drain on my SSD limit?

Seclorum · Sep 19, 2015

doomlord9 said:
Is there a way to auto-redirect these things towards a different drive or do I just suck it up and deal with it being one more drain on my SSD limit?

You could play around with symbolic links.

Namely create a shortcut to where you want those files to really be stored. Rename the shortcut to the folder the files are getting stored in, then put the shortcut in the same directory as where the files were originally trying to go. You might need to rename the original folder where the files were getting stored.

---

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i7-6700K 4.0GHz Quad-Core Processor ($369.90 @ B&H)
CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-D15 82.5 CFM CPU Cooler ($104.99 @ NCIX US)
Motherboard: MSI Z170A GAMING M3 ATX LGA1151 Motherboard ($144.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance LPX 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-2666 Memory ($124.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Samsung 850 EVO-Series 250GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($89.49 @ OutletPC)
Storage: Hitachi Ultrastar 7K3000 3TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($98.00 @ Amazon)
Video Card: MSI Radeon R9 390 8GB Video Card ($329.98 @ SuperBiiz)
Case: Fractal Design Define R5 (Black) ATX Mid Tower Case ($92.99 @ NCIX US)
Power Supply: EVGA 1000W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($119.99 @ Newegg)
Optical Drive: LG WH16NS40 Blu-Ray/DVD/CD Writer ($49.99 @ Newegg)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 10 Home Full - USB (32/64-bit) ($115.49 @ Adorama)
Keyboard: Corsair K70 RGB Wired Gaming Keyboard ($165.98 @ Directron)
Mouse: Mionix NAOS 7000 Wired Optical Mouse ($69.99 @ Amazon)
Total: $1876.77
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2015-09-19 10:09 EDT-0400

Primarilly just removed the 2nd graphics card, and changed around the HDD configuration to 1 small SSD, 1 Good sized HDD.

doomlord9 · Sep 19, 2015

Seclorum said:
Primarilly just removed the 2nd graphics card, and changed around the HDD configuration to 1 small SSD, 1 Good sized HDD.

Supposed to be 2 SSD, small and large. Also wasn't the power supply supposed to be reduced to account for the second video card?

That's why I asked rather than do it myself, worried I would miss those things when someone who knows exactly the how/why better than I do wouldn't.

Seclorum · Sep 19, 2015

doomlord9 said:
Supposed to be 2 SSD, small and large. Also wasn't the power supply supposed to be reduced to account for the second video card?

That's why I asked rather than do it myself, worried I would miss those things when someone who knows exactly the how/why better than I do wouldn't.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i7-6700K 4.0GHz Quad-Core Processor ($369.90 @ B&H)
CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-D15 82.5 CFM CPU Cooler ($104.99 @ NCIX US)
Motherboard: MSI Z170A GAMING M3 ATX LGA1151 Motherboard ($144.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance LPX 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-2666 Memory ($124.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Samsung 850 EVO-Series 250GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($89.49 @ OutletPC)
Storage: Samsung 850 EVO-Series 500GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($179.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Hitachi Ultrastar 7K3000 3TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($95.00 @ Amazon)
Video Card: MSI Radeon R9 390 8GB Video Card ($329.98 @ SuperBiiz)
Case: Fractal Design Define R5 (Black) ATX Mid Tower Case ($92.99 @ NCIX US)
Power Supply: EVGA SuperNOVA NEX 750W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($89.95 @ Mac Mall)
Optical Drive: LG WH16NS40 Blu-Ray/DVD/CD Writer ($49.99 @ Newegg)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 10 Home Full - USB (32/64-bit) ($115.49 @ Adorama)
Keyboard: Corsair K70 RGB Wired Gaming Keyboard ($165.98 @ Directron)
Mouse: Mionix NAOS 7000 Wired Optical Mouse ($69.99 @ Amazon)
Total: $1998.72
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2015-09-19 12:06 EDT-0400

doomlord9 · Sep 19, 2015

Looks good. Anything else you can think of?

Also for vendors, I have forced the list to as much from Newegg and Amazon as I am able to, do you know if NCIX US has a decent reputation as far as deliveries go, or should I spend a little extra to force the last few onto Newegg if I am able to as well?

Also looking at the parts it looks like the processor is largely unavailable ATM. Should I wait for it to become available or change that choice? It looks like from Newegg it requires it to be bundled with a motherboard in order to buy it from them at all.

What I am failing to ask is should I buy it piecemail or make an effort to get it all in one or two large loads all at the same time?

Seclorum · Sep 19, 2015

doomlord9 said:
Also for vendors, I have forced the list to as much from Newegg and Amazon as I am able to, do you know if NCIX US has a decent reputation as far as deliveries go, or should I spend a little extra to force the last few onto Newegg if I am able to as well?

NCIX should be fine.

doomlord9 said:
Also looking at the parts it looks like the processor is largely unavailable ATM.

Yeah it's a newish processor, just launched early August and supplies of it are relatively low right now.

doomlord9 said:
Should I wait for it to become available or change that choice? It looks like from Newegg it requires it to be bundled with a motherboard in order to buy it from them at all.

Yeah some vendors try and do that to preserve supplies, but by and large it should be available at places by itself if your willing to go for someplace other than just Newegg. I love those guys too, I really miss living a couple miles from a big distribution center of theirs. Was awesome for a few years being able to order things with 3 day shipping, and they show up at my door at 7am the next day, consistently.

doomlord9 said:
What I am failing to ask is should I buy it piecemail or make an effort to get it all in one or two large loads all at the same time?

Only thing really annoying with not ordering it all at once, is duplicate shipping charges.

doomlord9 · Sep 19, 2015

Seclorum said:
Yeah some vendors try and do that to preserve supplies, but by and large it should be available at places by itself if your willing to go for someplace other than just Newegg.

B&H is the only vendor advertising it and even with them it's just a pre-order with expected availability of October 15th.

Seclorum · Sep 19, 2015

doomlord9 said:
B&H is the only vendor advertising it and even with them it's just a pre-order with expected availability of October 15th.

Ouch.

As an alternate, this is using older gen stuff but it should be available pretty much everywhere.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i7-4790K 4.0GHz Quad-Core Processor ($327.99 @ NCIX US)
CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-D15 82.5 CFM CPU Cooler ($104.99 @ NCIX US)
Motherboard: MSI Z97A GAMING 7 ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($177.99 @ B&H)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws X Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-2133 Memory ($90.89 @ OutletPC)
Storage: Samsung 850 EVO-Series 250GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($89.49 @ OutletPC)
Storage: Samsung 850 EVO-Series 500GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($159.98 @ OutletPC)
Storage: Hitachi Ultrastar 7K3000 3TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($95.00 @ Amazon)
Video Card: MSI Radeon R9 390 8GB Video Card ($329.98 @ SuperBiiz)
Case: Fractal Design Define R5 (Black) ATX Mid Tower Case ($92.99 @ NCIX US)
Power Supply: EVGA SuperNOVA NEX 750W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($89.95 @ Mac Mall)
Optical Drive: LG WH16NS40 Blu-Ray/DVD/CD Writer ($49.99 @ Newegg)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 10 Home Full - USB (32/64-bit) ($115.49 @ Adorama)
Keyboard: Corsair K70 RGB Wired Gaming Keyboard ($165.98 @ Directron)
Mouse: Mionix NAOS 7000 Wired Optical Mouse ($69.99 @ Amazon)
Total: $1960.70
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2015-09-19 15:57 EDT-0400

doomlord9 · Sep 19, 2015

what's the difference between the two models? Functionally I mean.

Seclorum · Sep 19, 2015

doomlord9 said:
what's the difference between the two models? Functionally I mean.

Surprisingly little functionally.

But with the older platform you use older generations of memory meaning when you upgrade from this, your going to have to buy new memory... which isn't that bad.

doomlord9 · Sep 19, 2015

Is that anything I'll really be able to notice? Lower speeds or something to that effect?

Seclorum · Sep 19, 2015

doomlord9 said:
Is that anything I'll really be able to notice? Lower speeds or something to that effect?

Probably not.

Tech advice requested

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