Twisted Pinwheel

[Bobs Beard]

Soooo... Basically, when I was claiming that Hana could and should be in the higher genin/lower chunin bracket of strength and use that as a bases of how things would go, you claimed that I have nothing to back that claim up.

Now that I back that claim up, you say I wasn't claiming that and that's not what you're talking about.

Perhaps you should say what you mean instead of attempting to mean something you don't want to say.

Click to shrink...

I have been, so let me make this super duper simple:

[Training to reach a rank that was explicitly presented to us as something that isn't purely rooted in combat ability, and that the final judgements could pass combat losers and fail combat winners(you remember that right?)] =/= [Training to reach a rank means you have a specific 'tier' of combat acumen to achieve].

Please tell me you get this now - or don't, as if this doesn't work I'll just leave you be.

 

[Adyen]

I have been, so let me make this super duper simple:

[Training to reach a rank that was explicitly presented to us as something that isn't purely rooted in combat ability, and that the final judgements could pass combat losers and fail combat winners(you remember that right?)] =/= [Training to reach a rank means you have a specific 'tier' of combat acumen to achieve].

Please tell me you get this now - or don't, as if this doesn't work I'll just leave you be.

Click to shrink...

Alright.

Let's do a thought exercise. Let's say you NEVER met me before, and we're complete strangers.

I tell you I'm preparing for an examination for getting my paramedic license.

Let me give you some very basic things you should understand from that line alone.

A) I've training in things such as first aid and other life-saving measures
B) I'm old enough to have a job AS a paramedic

You can get some very basic information from even single liners.

The line "I'm training to pass the Chuunin examinations" does, in fact, say that you've reached a stage where you have completed the prerequisites.

Do you remember what the requirements are to be nominated as Chuunin? Mission scores. You need to complete X amount of missions.

So, let's say for the sake of argument, that she is not as strong in combat as you'd expect from a Chuunin aspirant. Let's say, for whatever reason, she's as weak as an academy student who just started using Chakra.

Then let's compare the experience that she has in using said lack of strength. Oh look! She's got a lot more experience using her strength than we do. Let's ignore the fact that it is a known secret that there IS a combat element to all Chuunin exams, so she would be strengthening herself via training (such as her being here with Gai) - who do you feel will be the stronger one in the situation where two side has the same ability, but one side has more experience in using said abilities?

So, yes. I refute your theory on the ground that it's not realistic and not valid regardless of whether she was possibly as physically strong as we are or not. From what little evidence we have, IS stronger, faster, and more experienced, AND has numbers over us; and your optimistic view that [aiming for X]=/=[potentially the abilities of the average X] really does not work in this situation.

 

[prandom]

Better mention this too: I don't think it matters whether we succeed or lose, but I think it matters whether we preform befitting as an aspiring genin or not.

Choosing plans that is known to fail is not a good idea. Why? Because A: It damages the trust Amy and Fuki has in us, and B: Gai could say that we should just stop being a ninja and not train us.

Succeeding in this 'test' of his does not mean he will train us, but failing utterly will definitely mean something negative. And by 'utterly', I don't mean just failing to escape; but rather failing to show that we have any potential as a ninja or that we can be trusted with any sort of power.

Click to shrink...

B: Gai could say that we should just stop being a ninja and not train us.

Click to shrink...

Somehow, this seems unlikely.

 

[Adyen]

Somehow, this seems unlikely.

Click to shrink...

Well, if we did something like throw Amy and Fuki at the dogs while we ran?

I DID say it was only if we made a complete and utter failure of ourselves.

 

[Valor]

*Reads Bobs Beards' analyzis. Is amazed*

Whoooa. I don't have to do any thinking. *Smug*

[X] - Purposefully lag behind your mooks, and keep the dogs occupied long enough the two to get a proper head start. They need the help, and there's no point to instantly spending minions; 's wasteful.
-[X] - Take a good, long gander at Hana's dogs, and give that Sharingan a proper workout. How each moves, what mannerisms and quirks you can witness in their methods - all of it's up for grabs.
--[X] Once you've got enough to work with (and the goons have gotten clear), make your own retreat, and look for a chance to trick Hana with illusions of her own dogs. You only need a moment...
---[X] If it works, fantastic; Mio makes a stately exit to 'retreat' - if it doesn't, she does it considerably faster, attempt made.

 

[inverted_helix]

I feel like people missed an important line earlier.

Basically, Sasuke has really good odds on taking rookie of the year by virtue of fucks-given.

Click to shrink...

Obviously this is unacceptable.

We must improve our training, or sabotage Sasuke.

Also I'm quite surprised that Mio doesn't have enormous chakra reserves by any standard. I mean Sharingan drains Kakashi and elite Jounin in a matter of minutes, and Mio runs it every moment of her life.

 

[Plotvitalnpc]

I feel like people missed an important line earlier.
Obviously this is unacceptable.

We must improve our training, or sabotage Sasuke.

Also I'm quite surprised that Mio doesn't have enormous chakra reserves by any standard. I mean Sharingan drains Kakashi and elite Jounin in a matter of minutes, and Mio runs it every moment of her life.

Click to shrink...

Your own sharingan is the most efficient one you'll ever have.
Non-Uchiha pay exponentially more to run them, if implanted.

 

[inverted_helix]

Your own sharingan is the most efficient one you'll ever have.
Non-Uchiha pay exponentially more to run them, if implanted.

Click to shrink...

Kakashi runs his for minutes and takes days to recharge. Mio runs hers permanently. We're not even talking about a 10x difference in cost here, we're talking minimum 100x difference if she had the same chakra capacity as he does. For her to have genin level chakra capacity we're talking at least a 1000x less chakra per time unit. There's limits to how absurd it can get.

 

[Plotvitalnpc]

Kakashi runs his for minutes and takes days to recharge. Mio runs hers permanently. We're not even talking about a 10x difference in cost here, we're talking minimum 100x difference if she had the same chakra capacity as he does. For her to have genin level chakra capacity we're talking at least a 1000x less chakra per time unit. There's limits to how absurd it can get.

Click to shrink...

Who knows, maybe hers is freakishly efficient compared to normal ones because she developed it (just barely) in-utero.
Plus, Kakashi's is always running, but staring at his forehead protector's cloth is less draining.
Even in optimal circumstances, it's still eating some of his chakra while he's trying to regen it.

 

[Sirrocco]

Your own sharingan is the most efficient one you'll ever have.
Non-Uchiha pay exponentially more to run them, if implanted.

Click to shrink...

Not sure that's true. Technically there's that "brothers swapping eyeballs thing", if you go for that.

 

[Plotvitalnpc]

Not sure that's true. Technically there's that "brothers swapping eyeballs thing", if you go for that.

Click to shrink...

Outside of getting the EMS.
I mean, in saying the whole 'your own eyes are best' thing, I'm extrapolating from the fact that only the original user of a rinnegan can get the full use out of it, apparently.

But Kakashi does mention that his poor compatibility with Obito's eye makes it horribly inefficient and always on.

 

[SCO]

Kakashi can't turn it off, it's the reason he wears the headband over it.

But anyway! My 2nd plan is the funniest! Why don't you like funny? You can even use the sharingan to aim your shirt at the dog head.


Besides, our sharingan only works for us to predict moves which no doubt Hana knows so she'll probably focus on the others, which i suspect means our minions are going to get plowed if we fight straight, one being a barely civilian and the other being a barely trained sword nut that might just piss off the clan member by seriously injuring a dog, and it needs vision which means that it's only useful until the dogs just circle around us and attack from behind.

Playing bait to delay/fight while the others run is also a losing strategy. Because we'll then be alone and surrounded, and turning around means always have at least one side blind (the one where the enemy is, and therefore the sharingan is useless) and we'd need to escape and run 1 km while dogs that can roll like sonic are chasing us.


I sincerely think attack is the best defense here, but in order to be successful, it needs to be unexpected, devious and slightly mad which i feel *buffs nails*, my throws-shirt-like-male-stripper plan best represents with the limited resources at our disposal and it's not excessively cruel like for example, sharpening-no-jutsu the dogs teeth would be.
And it's not like that plan can't degenerate into the traditional fight that is the 2nd best option if something goes wrong. I'm open to include any modifications that make sense to it of course, so don't be shy about suggesting alterations.


Mmmm, coincidently, One Day Mio has to organize a pre-combat haka

Spoiler: cool

Maybe Gai will be open to do it with us before Taijutsu training?

 

[Ct613hulu]

[X] - Purposefully lag behind your mooks, and keep the dogs occupied long enough the two to get a proper head start. They need the help, and there's no point to instantly spending minions; 's wasteful.
-[X] - Take a good, long gander at Hana's dogs, and give that Sharingan a proper workout. How each moves, what mannerisms and quirks you can witness in their methods - all of it's up for grabs.
--[X] Once you've got enough to work with (and the goons have gotten clear), make your own retreat, and look for a chance to trick Hana with illusions of her own dogs. You only need a moment...
---[X] If it works, fantastic; Mio makes a stately exit to 'retreat' - if it doesn't, she does it considerably faster, attempt made.

 

[SCO]

Sigh... enjoy being a dog chew toy then. I give up on convincing people.

 

[Koled]

To be honest I do not mind lossing here,might be the wake up call Mio needs to start training some more.

Not too much tho the cakes do not bake alone afterall.

 

[SCO]

I like victory this much. I'm sure Mio agrees. Whatever psychological reasons we little Machiavellians might have to sabotage Mio, i'm not certain she'll take the right lesson off it. It would be tragic if she decided to avoid hand to hand combat and/or alienate Guy by pursuing a flawed tactic (Guy dropped us in a situation where the best option is to win decisively through youthful team combat - which is improbable without trickery - and flip the tables, regardless of the final goal).

 

[inverted_helix]

Sigh... enjoy being a dog chew toy then. I give up on convincing people.

Click to shrink...

Honestly with the knowledge of how bad Mio actually is I don't think there's any possible way to do well here. Too much of a gap in basic abilities.

 

[Koled]

Im sure Mio loves victory but the sonner she understands that being defeated means all her efforts were useless,useless,useless the better.

And I have some ideas if the dogies and Hana concentrate on us albeit they depend on what we have at hand.

 

[SCO]

Eh, whatever, if you want to get her beat up, i guess that's acceptable considering her contrary personality. She'll probably want to work at Taijutsu more if she gets a lesson on how defective hers is now, and Guy can do that for her in addition to the genjutsu lure (is anyone else paranoid that the 'genjutsu' that Guy uses is actually a viewing capability of his turtles into their dimension? Like the Hokage seer's ball, but a portal that only let's light - or maybe memories - through?)

Goddamn, we might be able to get a rainbow coral and neon fish ocean background everywhere we go (better work on the monitor brightness in that case though)
Mio can be the submarine devil of the Uchiha:

 

[Adyen]

The best thing about that plan is that Mio is supposed to trick Hana with illusions... when she doesn't know any other than transformation.

Well, time to put in another plan.

[X] "Let's run!" Tell the other two girls to run
-[X] When running, grab some tree branches and if possible, any poisonous plant-life and prepare for Hana or her dogs to catch up. Tell Amy and Fuki look for ways to slow down Hana
-[X] When they do catch up, light the stuff grabbed on fire and throw it towards the dogs to slow them down
--[X] RUN FASTER

 

[macdjord]

[X] "Let's run!" Tell the other two girls to run
-[X] When running, grab some tree branches and if possible, any poisonous plant-life and prepare for Hana or her dogs to catch up. Tell Amy and Fuki look for ways to slow down Hana
-[X] When they do catch up, light the stuff grabbed on fire and throw it towards the dogs to slow them down
--[X] RUN FASTER

 

[Koled]

The best thing about that plan is that Mio is supposed to trick Hana with illusions... when she doesn't know any other than transformation.

Click to shrink...

You are rigth that will teach me to vote when in need of sleep.

This whole chase would be a lot easier if Mio wasn't shuch a competent villian and hadn't already got rid off any incriminating stink-bomb.

[X] "Let's run!" Tell the other two girls to run
-[X] When running, grab some tree branches and if possible, any poisonous plant-life and prepare for Hana or her dogs to catch up. Tell Amy and Fuki look for ways to slow down Hana
-[X] When they do catch up, light the stuff grabbed on fire and throw it towards the dogs to slow them down
--[X] RUN FASTER

Would like to be prepared to make a last stand when they catch up to let the minions try to reach the goal.To make them more likely to go along with Mio's whims and the posibilty to make our dear golden demon train more that when it catches her/our fancy.Bitter defeat adn all that.

 

[1986ctcel]

[X] "Let's run!" Tell the other two girls to run
-[X] When running, grab some tree branches and if possible, any poisonous plant-life and prepare for Hana or her dogs to catch up. Tell Amy and Fuki look for ways to slow down Hana
-[X] When they do catch up, light the stuff grabbed on fire and throw it towards the dogs to slow them down
--[X] RUN FASTER

 

[Chibi-Reaper]

"I didn't take you for a cruel sort, Gai."

The Blue Beast of Konoha laughed heartily, an outpouring of sound that one would think would reveal his presence to the competitors below.

"Hahahaha! My Eternal Rival! What a surprise to see you taking note of a Youthful Training Exercise."

Kakashi showed no reaction to Gai' words, except to turn a page in his book, a moment later.

"Mm." he said, without any commitment, as his sole visible eye moved away from Gai's posing and down below the canopy. "A few academy students, in this sort of situation? From the beginning, there was no hope of victory."

"Oho?" Gai replied. "Victory is not the point of training, you know. That aside, those are bold words, considering your history in students."

"That's different." Kakashi denied, and turned another page. "Even on the face of it, with proper teamwork, it's feasible that a group of genin can outmatch a single superior opponent... your average Jounin, for example."

Left unsaid was that while Kakashi could be called a great many things indeed, 'average' was not one of them... and that he would never be willing to abandon some form of the bell test, as long as he could point at his own past and declare that it was absolutely possible to pass.

"This sort of a scenario, though... you should be aware that the girl down there is the Inuzuka clan head's daughter. Overlooked they might be, before they come into their full growth, but the training of Inuzuka nin-dogs is every bit as grueling as the training of the Inuzuka themselves. She's not here because she doesn't know how to hunt, but because she needs to practice against people that don't react the same way Inuzuka do, to avoid falling into mental traps. Basically... it's not a case of strength in numbers overwhelming a single, greater foe. In this case, it's a group of academy students matched up against a group approximating a squad of low chuunin. Not just outmatched, but outnumbered."

"Indeed!" Gai agrees heartily. "The purpose of this training is not to fight. All shinobi eventually find themselves in a situation where open combat isn't feasible... or at the least, is unwise. In such a case you must be able to understand that the time has come to withdraw, and be capable of retreating effectively."

Kakashi sighed slowly.

"...Mm. Well, at least they seem to halfway understand that much." he says. "... Some more than others."

"Ahaha! It's delightful, is it not, to see youths with such spirit?" Gai laughs.

"... And you just got finished talking about how this was training to retreat." Kakashi mutters to himself. "And in the end, resorting to fire. How unexpected of an Uchiha. Really... you couldn't have at least found actual Genin for this? From what I see of those kids... They aren't going to make the cut."

"You think so?" Gai asks curiously, peering down through the leaves and thin traces of smoke.

"Well, I guess that's up to their instructor to decide... if they make it that far." Kakashi says, only hinting at retracting his words. "Two of them are clumsy and unskilled, and their chakra barely merits note. I suppose their control might be a little better, but unless they're keeping something truly phenomenal up their sleeves... and all around, their teamwork and cohesiveness is terrible. The Uchiha girl... might barely make the grade, depending on who tallies the score. There are great expectations set on the ninja who awaken those eyes... and she doesn't seem to live up to any of them."

"Ah, we cannot all graduate from the Academy at five." Gai chuckles.

"Just going by theory, at least, she could have. And didn't." Kakashi notes. "If I'm informed correctly, then she didn't even begin at the Academy at all until recently. Even after that, she's noted as acting out, ignoring lessons, and being a general disruptive influence. Left to her own devices, she could probably have mastered enough of the basics to be theoretically qualified for Genin in a day. Maybe..."

Kakashi grows silent, pages of his book un-turning and still. Drifting through thought and memory, interspersed by the shouting below.

"Kakashi?" Gai asks, after a few long moments.

"Mm?" Kakashi replies, blinking away images of the past. "... Maybe it's for the best." he decides aloud, and disappears in a puff of smoke.

"Hahaha! My Eternal Rival, I think that's the closest you have ever come to admitting that you might regret testing out of the academy early." Gai chuckles.

Shaking his head, he looks down at the rumpus below, intently watching the struggles of the next generations.

---

"Why didn't you run!?" you whine, Ami caught in a head-lock and your knuckles dragging along her scalp.

"Why didn't you, huh?" Ami shoots right back. "You dumbass, do you think it's going to go well on a real mission if we get away and have to go 'oh, yeah, we left the clan kid behind'?"

Shonen-girl sighs in the background as Ami drives an elbow into your solar plexus. Hana just continues watching, munching on a doggy biscuit that's gone when you turn your head that way. If your sharingan wasn't constantly running you'd probably assume you'd imagined it!

"Yosh! Well done." Gai declares, clapping his hands. "I've taken the liberty of stamping out the fires before they could spread too far, so allow me to offer my post-training assessment!"

He begins by pointing a finger Hana's way.

"To begin with, you should keep in mind that the enemy will not always behave or respond in the way you expect them to!" he declares. "Whether they are more competent or less, fight when you expect them to flee, or flee when you expect them to fight, say one thing and do another or even ignore the orders they receive to do something else entirely! It made little difference here but you took several blows throughout this exercise that could have been avoided. On a mission, any of those could have proven debilitating!"

Hana grunts, looking mildly irritated.

"Now, for the three of you... you did well for your age and experience!" he says, beaning a folded paper shuriken off of your head and looking at you for only a moment before immediately continuing on to the others. It looks like there's at least a little writing inside. "Particularly you, young Fuki! Your use of the taller grass to hinder, trip, and briefly bind your pursuers was particularly interesting. Was that the knot-tying jutsu?"

She what? You honestly weren't paying attention, your focus entirely on more immediate things than what Shonen Girl was doing.

"Ah... Mio demonstrated a few simple Jutsu." Fuki says, deferring the praise. You could preen smugly, but don't.

"In truth, most ninja entirely ignore simpler jutsu once they have access to more powerful or effective ones." Gai says. "There's some merit to both points of view, either focusing on the basics or discarding them, but in truth it depends on how highly you train your abilities. I believe you mentioned you had an interest in sealing theory?"

"Yes... but I've already read what's available and permitted to academy students. Nothing practical is really allowed until you're at least Genin rank." Fuki answers.

"Hmm... yes, those are the rules, I suppose." Gai agrees.

He seems disappointed by her answer anyway.

"Ah, and young Ami!" he continues, spirits more noticeably upbeat. "From what I can see, you could easily train a taijutsu focus, as you appear to default to acting and reacting to things in a very physical and direct way! So I went to the liberty of picking this up."

He pulls a length of fabric from who knows where and waves it slightly in the breeze, showing off a skin-tight suit in a lightly pastel purple and sized for Ami's frame, but nevertheless identical to his own.

"One, when the hell did you get that, and two, No." Ami instantly rejects.

"I stepped out for a minute near the start and end of the training to place and collect an order." Gai replies, smile sparkling in the light. "It's the pinnacle of high-stress training and mission-wear, wicks away sweat to dissipate scentlessly into the air, moves completely silently with no rustling of cloth, is smooth and silky against your skin, and breathes as though you were wearing nothing at all!"

"If you wear it you look like you're wearing nothing at all!" Ami snaps back in irritation.

---

[ ] ??

 

[Plotvitalnpc]

[] "You might get a few free seconds over an opponent while they were gawking, if you wore something over it."

 

[inverted_helix]

I'm honestly not sure what the point of this was either. Even if we accept that 3 genin with good teamwork could defeat an average jounin, these were 3 less than genin with basically no teamwork at all against a squad of low chunin. There was never a chance of any other result.

If the chunin weren't Inuzuka they at least could have hid, but that's basically pointless against tracking specialists.

 

[Lon]

I'm honestly not sure what the point of this was either. Even if we accept that 3 genin with good teamwork could defeat an average jounin, these were 3 less than genin with basically no teamwork at all against a squad of low chunin. There was never a chance of any other result.

If the chunin weren't Inuzuka they at least could have hid, but that's basically pointless against tracking specialists.

Click to shrink...

It's to point out that not everyone is going to act like the book says they should, like Naruto does nearly all the time. Things get confused and muddled in the field of battle and people can do crazy things depending on their thought process. Especially since Hana actually took hits from us, when this should have been an open and shut case of her crushing us mercilessly. Exactly like Naruto vs Mio was like.

As for the Mio and her team, it's a good gauging point for how far they have to go. As well figuring out problems that would be good to correct and their general thought process. Could also help them learn that battles aren't always going to be fair. So might help them think of things they can do when they meet an enemy that outmatches them like this.

 

[Chibi-Reaper]

Wound up being an even tie when I checked votes, so I sort of mashed the winners together and set the actual update a distance away and with the Jounin watching the fun instead of showing you how everything fell apart right from the start when Ami mulishly refused to just sprint ahead when you tried to lag behind for any reason. No 'go on ahead, I'll catch up' death-flag shenanigans tolerated!

There was a bit of 'pretend to be one of the dogs', a bit of fire-based distraction, a bunch of throwing delaying and evasive tactics at the wall in a mad scramble to see what might work. In the end, didn't really matter because of the disparity between your respective groups.

Of course, just because actually getting away clean was probably the next best thing to impossible, it doesn't mean you didn't learn anything from trying, and that sort of bone-headed gumption is the sort of thing Gai likes to see!

Hana learned a little too, and got her pride slightly bruised and scraped, because in general academy students plain shouldn't have been able to touch her at all.

 

[Adyen]

"Why didn't you, huh?" Ami shoots right back. "You dumbass, do you think it's going to go well on a real mission if we get away and have to go 'oh, yeah, we left the clan kid behind'?"

Click to shrink...

This really shows the kind of attitude that Ami has about clan kids and herself.

If she's going to be any kind of long-term character, we REALLY should nip this in the bud.

[X] "Hey, if you're planning on becoming The GREAT MIO'S human shield, something bright and flashy should be perfect for you!"

 

[Valette-Serafina]

[X] "You might get a few free seconds over an opponent while they were gawking, if you wore something over it."
-[X] "I want one. In GLORIOUS GOLD!"