With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

[Agent Orange]

That's always been a mild peeve of mine, that a Superman/Black Mercy or Picard/The Inner Light kind of experience is the sort of thing that should stick with you for a while, rather than being back to normal by the next episode.

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Ah, but you risk losing readers if the character changes in any significant way. Comics/tv shows must be sold after all! Hence the snap back effect. Nah, I'm sure some time shenanigans will happen (like when the 'Mandated' arc was done and OL just woke up none the wiser) and Arty will just blink, stand up from the hot tub time machine, and carry on with her day while only vaguely remembering having some kind of adventure involving the Big Gray and a bunch of Drow and ... beetle wristwatches for some reason - but she'll be unable to recall any details. Oh well, if she can't remember it, it must not have been all that important. They stopped yet another alien invasion and that's all that matters.

 

[Darko]

I mean, this is just a kind of standard superhero thing it's assumed they can deal with.

Superman had that one issue where him and Diana were pulled away to fight Ragnarok, which IIRC, they spent long enough doing that he was having trouble remembering what Lois looked like (though, being Clark, he stayed faithful, even though Wonder Woman was more of the 'what happens in Asgard...' school of thought)... and then he came back, and it was basically just "Hey, another day at the office."

You wonder if there's some sort of support group for heroes who've gone through this kind of thing.

That's always been a mild peeve of mine, that a Superman/Black Mercy or Picard/The Inner Light kind of experience is the sort of thing that should stick with you for a while, rather than being back to normal by the next episode.

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There was a superhero therapy facility called Sanctuary in the n52 comics.

From what I remember it did not end well for the patients in it.

 

[Darko]

Superman had that one issue where him and Diana were pulled away to fight Ragnarok, which IIRC, they spent long enough doing that he was having trouble remembering what Lois looked like (though, being Clark, he stayed faithful, even though Wonder Woman was more of the 'what happens in Asgard...' school of thought)... and then he came back, and it was basically just "Hey, another day at the office."

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In what comic was this, it sounds really interesting?

 

[jasonh23761]

You know at this point, I'm half convinced MrZoat just commented the years things and went to sleep to see what kind of reaction he could stir up without really doing all that much. A literary "frag out" if you will. Or I'm reading too much into nothing and really ought to go to sleep.

But Supreme Commander though.....

 

[Valint]

In what comic was this, it sounds really interesting?

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Action Comics #761

 

[Pez]

You wonder if there's some sort of support group for heroes who've gone through this kind of thing.

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Wasn't there a storyline in the comics where there actually was a mental hospital to deal with this? And Wally (or maybe Barry - one of the Flashes), went kind of crazy, and killed a bunch of people there for some crazy reason and didn't realize it, Eventually, he went to a normal prison for the murders or something.

The fact that in canon YJ they did something like this with Black Canary was interesting, but I can't say how effective she really was, for the most part. I'm not aware of any version of her where she is trained to deal with kids, or act as a psychologist.

I can't remember if it was in this story or another one where the MC questions how someone that owns a flower shop is qualified to provide head-shrinking. I actually read an article once that discussed her body behavior while trying to help the kids after the virtual training mission. I found it interesting.

Getting back on topic, I really hope that whatever's happened is permanent for Artemis and Renegade.

For Renegade:
- He's finally doing what he's allegedly the god of - conquering. It's powering him up, and he's liking it. After who knows exactly how many years of fighting and conquering, he can't be the same person.
- Renegade isn't like a normal person. He's apparently lived years/decades/centuries with only Sheeda, and while it's possible, there's no hinting that he's formed any attachments or friendships with any of them. They are just a means to an end for him. And his lack of any meaningful relationships for so long apparently hasn't had any negative impact on him. Perhaps Renegade has reached a point more like Darkseid, where relationships don't matter.

For Artemis:
- She always gets a bum wrap. Even if she's not a social butterfly, relationships are important to her. Especially her family. She didn't want to leave her original school because of her friends, and at her new one, we see in the tie-in comics she made new ones at her new school. She forms friendships with M'gann and Zatanna and etc. Her isolation from a population who aren't just using her for protection should have a strong negative impact on her. If as much time passed as I think, I actually think her reaction to Renegade wasn't strong enough. I would have expected a little bit of a break down, not the very quick and casual conversation.
- She had to come into her godhood on her own. This is an assumption, of course, but I'm assuming that with the age we all think she has become, she would have started to gain access to her divine abilities. Without Renegade (or Diana or anybody else), she'd have been stuck figuring things out on her own.
- Renegade and Luna always felt weird. He was kind of dating Kara at the time, and he broke things off with her because Kara kept acting like he was suddenly just going to turn evil (even though she still dated him - wtf Kara!), and temperment-wise, Luna is probably the closest kind of being to him from Ponyland, and her experience with her Nightmare (or whatever, I know little about ponies) was similar to his with Anti-life. And the fact that she helped him, inadvertantly purge it from him, probably had some influence on him. Also, didn't she not want to experience being bipedal? Royal snobbery, if you ask me.
- Tied in to the above, if, and it's a big if, something romantic happens between renegade and Artemis (I'm guessing it won't), everybody would throw a fit when they get back. Everybody knows that Renegade has a thing for fit asians, and even though Artemis probably looks more like her father than mother, considering he dated Jade, and would totally bang Paula if things had gone differently, I'm sure everybody would take issue with these two together. EVEN THOUGH IT WOULD BE TOTALLY AWESOME AND CUTE.

Disclaimer: Artemis is my favorite canon character, and gets the only real growth out of all the females (out of all the characters I'd argue). She also, like I said, always gets the bum wrap. Bad parents and family. Stuck raising her neice. Boyfriend dies. Friends mind-trick her in a very creepy way at the end of S3 to force her to get over her grief.

I loved the Renegade-Jade interactions. None of his romantic possibilities since then could compare to her. And, yes, that definitely includes the snob pony. Using the light-dark morality scale, like the Jedi, Jade would have been on the darker side, and would have pushed him darker. Artemis is more grey-light, especially the one in Renegade's universe. She never really seemed to have too big of a problem with Renegade, and I always felt that he was closest to her out of everybody on the team. Plus, we know in Paul's universe that she really liked and idealized him, so this appears to be a universal thing.

I'm not expecting my shipping to happen, but I'm not giving up hope!

 

[Darko]

Wasn't there a storyline in the comics where there actually was a mental hospital to deal with this? And Wally (or maybe Barry - one of the Flashes), went kind of crazy, and killed a bunch of people there for some crazy reason and didn't realize it, Eventually, he went to a normal prison for the murders or something.

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It was called Heroes in Crisis and the hospital was called Sanctuary.

I can't remember if it was in this story or another one where the MC questions how someone that owns a flower shop is qualified to provide head-shrinking. I actually read an article once that discussed her body behavior while trying to help the kids after the virtual training mission. I found it interesting.

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I remember when Paul was merged with the Ophidian he criticized Canary for trying to give him therapy when she has no credentials.

- Renegade and Luna always felt weird. He was kind of dating Kara at the time, and he broke things off with her because Kara kept acting like he was suddenly just going to turn evil (even though she still dated him - wtf Kara!),

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Kara only went on those dates because he requested her to and she felt she owed him for saving the Earth from Grayven 50, and because she wanted to keep an eye on him in case he decides to go evil, not because she was romantically interested in him.

Also, didn't she not want to experience being bipedal? Royal snobbery, if you ask me.

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She was hesitant to change since it would be a pretty big change, and she would feel embarrassed if she couldn't walk on two legs, not exactly that much royal snobbery in it.

I loved the Renegade-Jade interactions. None of his romantic possibilities since then could compare to her. And, yes, that definitely includes the snob pony

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Eh, his relationship with Jade wasn't nearly as interesting as paragons relationship with his Jade, since paragon Jade actually changed as a character and evolved to be a better person, while renegade Jade didn't really do that.

Now with Luna we may see renegade change and become a kinder man so we get character development.

Plus, we know in Paul's universe that she really liked and idealized him, so this appears to be a universal thing.

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Paragon Jade also got over her idolization of Paul and now just considers him a close friend, even with his flaws.

Renegade Artemis would have great respect for the renegade, but she would have also seen that he's brutal and can be an asshole, so while she may respect him, she may not idolize him.

 

[Mr Zoat]

'Thought'

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'bow hanging'

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Thank you, corrected.

*Mass effect gunnery chief speech intensifies*

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I'm pretty sure thta gunnery chief was wrong.

You obviously haven't seen the new version of boxing glove arrow GA patented. Thy cover any amount of skill discrepancy.

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Dead. Cat. Arrow.

 

[Agent Orange]

Dead. Cat. Arrow.

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Ah, pulling out the big guns I see. I call your dead cat arrow and raise you one

Spoiler: Atomic Warhead Arrow

Holy fuck. Green Arrow supposedly makes his own arrows. If he could make an effectively nuclear missile, powerful enough to be considered dangerous but small enough to be fired from hand held bow then he obviously missed his calling. He would've made mad bank if he went into weapons design.

 

[Darko]

Dead. Cat. Arrow.

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It was actually just meant to look like a black cat, but it wasn't an actual cat, dead or otherwise.

It was meant to stop a superstitious criminal or something, I think it involved some inheritance.

The only dead cat I remember involving the Arrow family was when Roy had a mental breakdown and thought a dead cat was his dead daughter.

Thay guy did not have an easy time in the comics.

At least his n52 self got to have a relationship with Starfire, so there is some light at the end of the dark, dark tunnel his life has been.

 

[Assblaster5000]

Ah, pulling the big guns I see. I call your dead cat arrow and raise you one

Spoiler: Atomic Warhead Arrow

Holy fuck. Green Arrow supposedly makes his own arrows. If he could make an effectively nuclear missile, powerful enough to be considered dangerous but small enough to be fired from hand held bow then he obviously missed his calling. He would've made mad bank if he went into weapons design.

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And now I'm imagining Iron-Man with a bow fitting an oil baron, robot man.

Thank you comicbooks, only you can make things this insane and genuinely mean it.

 

[Agent Orange]

Iron-Man with a bow

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Probably not quite what you visualised but...

Spoiler: Iron-Man with a bow and arrow

 

[Darko]

And now I'm imagining Iron-Man with a bow fitting an oil baron, robot man.

Thank you comicbooks, only you can make things this insane and genuinely mean it.

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Just look at Doom Patrol.

Is it insane?

Yes.

Does it make sense?

No.

Would you want to keep reading the comics and watching the show till the end of time?

Of course you would.

 

[Assblaster5000]

Probably not quite what you visualised but...

Spoiler: Iron-Man with a bow and arrow

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I'd say that's not how aerodynamics work, but Clint has dodged bullets while deaf and blind, so who am I to tell him what he can and can't do?

 

[Agent Orange]

I'd say that's not how aerodynamics work, but Clint has dodged bullets while deaf and blind, so who am I to tell him what he can and can't do?

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If it helps it's not a standard move, it's a super special team up combo move he and Tony practiced for when the situation warrants using:

Spoiler: 30 megaton Depth Arrow

So Tony's there as a deployment and bail out of range mechanism.

 

[rdfox]

Personally, I don't see any problem with Grayven and Artemis having a relationship right now. First off, they're currently trapped--for a very, very long time--someplace where they have no other real options for a partner, and, well, they're both healthy young adults (yes, even at 300+, by New God standards, they're young adults because they're physically young adults), and thus have needs and urges and, well, they don't have any real way to contact the partners they had before the unexpected trip to Sheedaland. It could just be a FWB arrangement to satisfy those desires, or perhaps a case of "if you can't be with the one you love, love the one you're with" until such time as they find a way to get home.

Secondly, we don't know whether or not either one has a problem with polyamory. We know that Grayven doesn't have a problem with multiple partners during a sexual encounter (and, apparently, not with non-procreative sibling incest, either), given his threesome with Koriand'r and Komand'r; I don't recall how serious he was about those dates with Kara, but it's entirely possible that he's perfectly comfortable with loving multiple partners and thus, unless Luna would have a problem with it, would be just fine dating her and Artemis at the same time. Artemis's monogamy/monoamory was never raised in the first two seasons of YJ (it only came up in S3 in that, despite the time skip, she still didn't feel comfortable having another relationship after Wally--which may well be due to trauma/heartbreak, rather than an unwillingness to love multiple persons), and it might well be that, having become a New God and things still being earlier in the storyline, her attitude towards romance might be a bit different; perhaps she's realized she can be polyamorous, or she always was, but Wally wasn't comfortable with a non-exclusive relationship, so she went along with that. If her current boyfriend is OK with non-exclusivity, and she's poly, then there wouldn't be any real problem unless he finds himself uncomfortable with Grayven specifically.

And, of course, there's also the possibility that Zoat is trolling us by having her overcome by the emotion of seeing him again and it wasn't meant as a romantic or sexual overture at all, but again, I don't see any real inherent objection to the two of them possibly getting together for a while; it's just a matter of if it would be in character for them.

 

[iamnuff]

I was a little worried about Artemis, given how long it's implied that his trip across the world has been taking. He did sorta blast off into space and leave her alone in enemy territory.

Still, she's a New God in her own right, and it looks like she's done alright for herself.

Edit: The hair is probably not a sign that 300 years have passed. it wouldn't take Grayven that long to conquer these idiots, to start with, and new gods don't age that quickly anyway.

It's likely either a God-Thing(TM) or the sun bleaching her hair somehow.

 

[Mr Zoat]

(and, apparently, not with non-procreative sibling incest, either), given his threesome with Koriand'r and Komand'r;

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It's not incest if there's a fellah in between.

 

[Darko]

It's not incest if there's a fellah in between.

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Now all we need is Andy Samberg and Justin Timberlake to make a song about this.

 

[DrThoth]

I'm curious if there's any significance to Artemis's change in hair color, as I'm sure a lot of us are. I'm not sure if white hair would be an indicator of power growth, though Mystical White Hair is a fairly common trope, so maybe it is.

Actually, how exactly would a (New) God of Archery grow in power? With Renegade, it seems fairly straightforward that the more he Conquers (whether that's territory, resources or subjects), the more mystically potent he gets. Is it just a matter of accumulating continuous archery experience? I'm assuming the background magic level to be an equal constant and thus not relevant to this situation.

 

[Agent Orange]

Actually, how exactly would a (New) God of Archery grow in power?

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Well... We already saw that she learned a few 'totally not magic' tricks like that Macross arrow and Bifrost arrow so she'd probably be adding more tricks to her quiver so to speak. That aside... Going from 'peak human' accurate to impossibly accurate (think Bullseye just with arrows), hitting the target before she fires, stuff like that. Eventually, like waaay down the line, she might even evolve to Gil and EMiYa's levels of Archery!

 

[DAT_NOOB]

It's been a while since high school history class but I distinctly remember him having a Reality Marble Personal Pocket Dimension full of superpowered warriors...

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Now I want to see Rene-Grayven fight Iskandar, I imagine they'd get along swimmingly but still have to fight in the end.

I can just imagine both of them having the time of their fucking lives in that fight.

 

[Gilhelmi]

When you're 30, and 15 year age difference is a big deal. When you're 300, not so much.

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How long have they been in this world? I know they can not really tell time, and I imagine New Gods have a harder time of it because many bodily functions that tell the passing of time (like aging or mensural cycles) don't work.

That is going to be the big revel at the end, they have been stuck there for a couple thousand years.

 

[DAT_NOOB]

How long have they been in this world? I know they can not really tell time, and I imagine New Gods have a harder time of it because many bodily functions that tell the passing of time (like aging or mensural cycles) don't work.

That is going to be the big revel at the end, they have been stuck there for a couple thousand years.

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Grayven was able to conquer a planet covered in magic, sadist, torture raiders fighting in every single city in every direction ON FOOT

 

[Vaermina]

Grayven was able to conquer a planet covered in magic, sadist, torture raiders fighting in every single city in every direction ON FOOT

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It doesn't count, he used conquest mind control to do it.

 

[Mr Zoat]

Bull
Stands

"Like the hair."

Artemis rolls her eyes at me as we walk down a corridor in Caergwaed. Finally, things are settling down. Finally, we can return to the task at hand. I miss the fight already.

"It was an accident."

"I didn't even know New Gods could bleach their hair."

"I've been bleaching it since forever. But you must have known that. Why did you think my hair stayed blonde after you 'awoke' me?"

"I thought that your divine nature might have included being blonde." I shrug. "The phenomenon isn't well studied in humans."

"No, still dyeing it. Which I couldn't do here, because Sheeda don't have hair. One of my-" She glances backwards at our escort. "-attendants looked at my two-tone hair and asked if there was a problem. Only they didn't know what bleaching agents humans use and gave me something that turned it white instead."

"Is it permanent?"

"Ask me in another two hundred years."

I nod. "Will do."

We emerge onto a balcony which grants a good view across the city, if mist-shrouded military base is your idea of a good view like it is mine.

"Nice place you got here."

Artemis steps forward, indicating a complex over to our right with her right hand.

"That stuff's new. We had to fortify our long-range communications, and since even when it got really bad no one wanted to risk destroying Caergwaed's vats this was the best place to put it."

I nod. Local experts are copying the really quite clever system to the cities on my side of our renewed alliance as we speak, and inscribing New God designs on them for superior effectiveness.

"So what happened?"

"After you left, two of the 'observers' turned out to be assassins. After they got killed we found out that a bunch of other cities were attacking the cities who sent representatives to the launch." She turns around to face me, leaning back on the railing. "Caeryg died right away-" Unfortunate. "-and so I had to try and get everyone to work together."

"Looks like you did a pretty good job. Yours was the second largest alliance on the planet."

The only other one worth talking about. Once the unaligned cities found out that our war had suddenly stopped they began making representations. More to Artemis' side than mine, but since what's mine is hers I'm not going to complain.

"This…" She shakes her head. "Isn't my thing. It's like herding cats! I spent like ninety percent of my time just trying to get them to even talk to each other!"

"I just killed anyone who disobeyed me. Saved a lot of time…"

"I wanna say that's bad… But I know how many people died every time one of the Highborn on my side decided to act up."

"That's politics at the national level. People die whatever you do. I like the way I do things but I can't tell you I'm objectively right. Your way might have been better."

"Or it might not have worked."

I nod. "And you won't ever know for sure because you can't do both." I smile. "And this is the difference between Earth, and Apokolips and New Genesis. You encouraged cooperation and I compelled obedience, and rather than fight to the death we're talking about it like rational people and combining our power bases to do something more important."

"Did you kill a lot of people?"

"The total Sheeda population is far less than the population of Earth in our era. Do you mean as a proportion, or in absolute numbers?"

"I-." She gives a tired snort. "I suppose it doesn't matter." She shrugs. "So what's next?"

"Bleed torsion generator."

That gets her attention.

"You know how to make it work?"

"Think so." I huff, shaking my head. "I've had to have Mother Box working on war-related things, but between what she already knows and what she learned in space, it should be possible. And…" How to approach this? "When did the picture cut off?"

"A little bit after you started your tour of the Source Wall. The universe is really small now, huh?"

"That's my conclusion, though I don't plan on touching it to check."

"Yeah."

"I… Saw something, when I was coming back. An etheric tide flowing from the Earth to the sun. I'm not sure.. exactly what was happening, but once things are stable here I want to go up again and get a closer look at the sun."

She nods. "That's the only other place to look."

"Technically, we could look underground." She smiles faintly. "And I know that we knew that the sun is continuing to.. feed, but it became noticeably more intense when the fighting started. And when I began to despair, it was able to drain me."

She shrugs. "I don't think the Sheeda are going to start another war."

"No, but once the generators are up and running, I think it might be worth putting resources into light entertainment."

She nods. "To keep people happy, and make it harder for the sun to feed on them."

"Or just to add circuses to the bread. Anything new on your end?"

She nods. "We found records of the tissue sample. The one-"

"The one they got from the Justice Legion." / "-they picked up from whoever it was-. Yeah."

"And… Were you able to learn anything about it?"

"I.. got the local Vat Masters to look at it, but the record's really old and… Weird. The Vat Lord said that he thought the problem was their ancestors making a copy of a copy of a copy without really understanding what they were looking at."

I nod. "To be expected, really. Unless they find the original I doubt it will help. But… I am pleased that you kept looking."

She nods with a smile, stepping away from the railing.

"We should go talk to the Highborn. Let them know what we want them doing now that the war's over."

I nod. "Maybe I could bring more people up with me next time. See if going above the mists affects Sheeda differently."

"That-."

"My lady? My lord?"

A Highborn I don't recognise walks around Artemis's attendants and hesitantly halts before us. Since this is Artemis's city I wait for her to reply.

"What is it, Edwyn?"

"You asked about a particular tissue sample collected by our ancestors?"

"What about it?"

"With the help of Lord Grayven's arcanists, we… We believe that we may have found it."

She frowns. "A better record?"

"No. The original sample. It has… It appears to have somehow survived. We.. initially misidentified it, but… With a more thorough review-."

"Take us to it right now."

 

[Darko]

"Ask me in another two hundred years."

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So they spent two hundred years in the Sheeda timeline?

but between when she already

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'what she'

We round records

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'found records'

Where you able to

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'Were you'

that you keep looking.

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'kept looking'

 

[Pinklestia]

Well, no jumping to future Ponyland yet?

 

[Mr Zoat]

'what she'
'found records'
'Were you'
'kept looking'

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Thank you, corrected.

 

[Agent Orange]

"Is it permanent?"

"Ask me in another two hundred years."

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Oh it was 'only' two centuries since they last saw each other! Well that makes things much better /s

More to Artemis' side than mine, but since what's mine is hers I'm not going to complain.

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Oh My! You might wanna omit these comments or at least phrase them differently when you tell the story to Luna.

"The total Sheeda population is far less than the population of Earth in our era. Do you mean as a proportion, or in absolute numbers?"

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You know, you could've just said 'yes'. Or nodded.