With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

[CTrees]

The Sybarite speaks in a different font. I'm guessing that doesn't imply much beyond "his voice is a little odd," but it still raises questions...

 

[Pinklestia]

can't think of any other timelines/continuities off the top of my head.

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Non Canon: Cake Man (Paul with no ring and as a Batman villain, he is insane). Got a few low power power ups, ends involved with the Injustice League and makes it something much more lasting.

Mad science Paul/Frank Paul: Paul was given a mad scientist powerset instead of a ring, eventually became Frankstein Jr and ended with an army of robots plus being associate of the Justice League. Eventually takes the name Frank Fortress cause he is still a comic books nerd. Has a group of robots he build that make sure he does go super villain.

Plays a virtual game with other mad geniuses were the objective is more to outsmart each other that actually win the game.

Fem Paul /Paula: In a gender reversed DC, Paul decided to become female to fit better. At first she suppressed her sexual desires after her equivalent of fusing with the Ophidian, ends in a open relationship with Clone Supergirl and Megan male counterpart after a ten years time skip. Besides that it's a lot like canon Oh El minus the fact she doesn't get involved with Gods, Hell or Heaven and

Spoiler

Made herself almost immortal by eating the Ophidian. Then went in a quest to get her ability to feel something other than greed back.

 

[Ngamer11]

Non Canon: Cake Man (Paul with no ring and as a Batman villain, he is insane). Got a few low power power ups, ends involved with the Injustice League and makes it something much more lasting.

Mad science Paul/Frank Paul: Paul was given a mad scientist powerset instead of a ring, eventually became Frankstein Jr and ended with an army of robots plus being associate of the Justice League. Eventually takes the name Frank Fortress cause he is still a comic books nerd. Has a group of robots he build that make sure he does go super villain.

Plays a virtual game with other mad geniuses were the objective is more to outsmart each other that actually win the game.

Fem Paul /Paula: In a gender reversed DC, Paul decided to become female to fit better. At first she suppressed her sexual desires after her equivalent of fusing with the Ophidian, ends in a open relationship with Clone Supergirl and Megan male counterpart after a ten years time skip. Besides that it's a lot like canon Oh El minus the fact she doesn't get involved with Gods, Hell or Heaven and

Spoiler

Made herself almost immortal by eating the Ophidian. Then went in a quest to get her ability to feel something other than greed back.

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Can someone put the link for all these non-canon OLs? I'd like to see them for myself.

 

[Mr Zoat]

To provide a vector for the discovery of the breadth of where Canis's godlike powers of art and violence could be applied, thanks to his Space Wolves being unbeatable unless his opponent was running the Thousand Sons like Zatanna does, sparking new curiosity and a line of research for main storyline Paul to finally open the New God tree that Grayven's been focusing on?

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No.

Just noticed Mr. Zoat, Hoard part 23 should be under 13th January on your TOC.

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Thank you, corrected.

Mr. Zoat, an old one, but when Holly's girlfriend first showed up, her name was Karon Case, later appearances have her as Karon Chase. Which one is correct? If the former, later appearances need to be edited in story only thread. If the latter, her first appearance needs to be edited in the story only thread.

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Uh... Let's go with 'Chase'.

The Sybarite speaks in a different font. I'm guessing that doesn't imply much beyond "his voice is a little odd," but it still raises questions...

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It's the same font that the SI used when he got transformed into a demon.

Can someone put the link for all these non-canon OLs? I'd like to see them for myself.

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Yes, if... Only there was some sort of internet-based word repository so they could be viewed from the comfort of our own homes. With a convenient list at the start of all of the story-related parts.

 

[Impartial Panic]

A bit much? Or a bit just enough?

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This is savage, 3-1 odds he'll somehow survive that and be back in a few decades.

So Demon Infused power ring, banging semi villainous hottie and carving an economic empire in Africa to uplift humanity.

so when are we getting a crisis of the infinite pauls?

 

[Mr Zoat]

so when are we getting a crisis of the infinite pauls?

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At some point. Probably at the 2012 mid-point, because if world-shaking events happen every six months the locals will start to notice.

 

[Someguy Somewhere]

I'm thinking for Savage, if obliterating him in the sun didn't work (which the chinaverse timeline seems to imply it worked for their version of him) then how about something a bit bigger?

V616 Monocerotis is a black hole about 3457 light years away from earth, which is the closest we've got.

Toss Savage in, but not directly. Rather aim for a stable orbit around the event horizon. Time dilation should slow him to a near stop. He's not dead, so he can't regenerate elsewhere, and even if, for what ever reason, he is able to kill himself within what ever Savage proof bubble you stuffed him in, by the time he can manage it, it'll likely be the LEGION's problem rather then the League. Might want to leave them a post-it note on him though.

"Warning: Black Hole may contain ill-tempered regenerating cave men, 21st century vintage. Handle with Care"

 

[DrThoth]

And then he angered both Heaven and Hell and got brainwashed into being less effective.

Plus he is nowadays less interested on Earth than Grayven meaning his "flowers" can and will die without a caretaker around.

And his non human way of Thinking is getting tiresome since that's one part of him that's worse that at the start of the story.

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The Boss Smiley conversation and purported brainwashing (I don't think this is explicitly confirmed in the text, and both his and the angels' unfamiliarity with Paul's soul-structure means it's very plausible that there was no actual effect, though I agree that Paul's thought processes are getting a little less coherent, at least to me) happened relatively recently in the story, so I'm willing to wait to see if that actually has long-term effects on his effectiveness; it's too soon for me to judge.
I'm not sure if it's a limitation of the metaphor itself or just my use of it, but I think both Paul and I would want the 'flowers' to be self-sufficient and self-empowered as part of their ideal state, rather than just being dependent on him; as Paul stated when interviewed after cleaning up waste in London just before the Nabu showdown, he has the ability to just clean up all of England's problems, but to him that would be like wiping the arse of a fit and healthy adult, aka an unnecessary action given that the subject should be able to resolve the issue by themselves. So actually, the ideal outcome would be for other characters, most probably the Justice League, to be proactive in dealing with the Light, rather than Paul having to be involved, and this may be what's happening off-screen, but it should at least be mentioned or incorporated in the story. Paul's discussion with Batman about Satanus before the Hell infiltration had logical points on both sides, and I think there needs to be more of that in regards to other members of the Light. Having on-screen strategy meetings about preventing hypothetical global nuclear warfare is all well and good, but they should also be having meetings about the group responsible for two actual global catastrophes (the Roanoake event and Oceanus' rampage- perhaps the latter wasn't as devastating, but it definitely had the potential to be, and while the literal Deus ex Machina used to resolve that was both entirely logical and awesome, it should still show the League that they just aren't able of meeting their goal of world defence). The frustrating thing is that Paul leaves and the characters just seem to have the same M.O. as before, just with better equipment and capabilities.
Grayven doesn't seem to encourage completely independent and self-sufficient development (he has far more influence in conventional politics and the Genomorph civilization, for example), which makes sense with his psychological and metaphysical role as conqueror and ruler. However, Operation Light Switch seems like a much more independent enterprise where every major country's government had actual agency in militarily eliminating the Light instead of just relying on superheroes to do it (which must be quite a blow to Boss Smiley, whatever he's actually doing in the Renegade timeline). It was incredible to see, and a beautiful subversion of the ineffectual non-superpowered government in comic stories, and I don't think there's really anything of the same nature that we've seen in Paul's timeline, which, given his goal to uplift humanity for the sake of the uplift itself rather than ruling them, is actually quite tragic.
I don't really intend for all my posts to turn into huge rambling paragraphs, but I think I'll be able to cut them down a bit as soon as I finish expressing everything I've been thinking over the past years that I've been silently reading the story and forum posts.

 

[RagnarokAscendant]

I'm thinking for Savage, if obliterating him in the sun didn't work (which the chinaverse timeline seems to imply it worked for their version of him) then how about something a bit bigger?

V616 Monocerotis is a black hole about 3457 light years away from earth, which is the closest we've got.

Toss Savage in, but not directly. Rather aim for a stable orbit around the event horizon. Time dilation should slow him to a near stop. He's not dead, so he can't regenerate elsewhere, and even if, for what ever reason, he is able to kill himself within what ever Savage proof bubble you stuffed him in, by the time he can manage it, it'll likely be the LEGION's problem rather then the League. Might want to leave them a post-it note on him though.

"Warning: Black Hole may contain ill-tempered regenerating cave men, 21st century vintage. Handle with Care"

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Given the number I'd put even money on it being a portal to Marvel Earth and the result being one angry caveman popping in and then getting obliterated by whatever cosmic threat Marvel has that trumps immortality.

 

[PrinceJonathan]

Like, eating his arse? Seems more like pre-coital play than post-coital.

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No she suddenly went from blushing violet to violent psycho and literally ate him like food. He was chewed up piece by piece and swallowed.

 

[Coda]

Luther

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Luthor

The Sybarite speaks in a different font. I'm guessing that doesn't imply much beyond "his voice is a little odd," but it still raises questions...

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Usually font changes in this fic imply mental influence. Sybarite appears to not be entirely in his right mind.

 

[Buggy123]

I'm thinking for Savage, if obliterating him in the sun didn't work (which the chinaverse timeline seems to imply it worked for their version of him) then how about something a bit bigger?

V616 Monocerotis is a black hole about 3457 light years away from earth, which is the closest we've got.

Toss Savage in, but not directly. Rather aim for a stable orbit around the event horizon. Time dilation should slow him to a near stop. He's not dead, so he can't regenerate elsewhere, and even if, for what ever reason, he is able to kill himself within what ever Savage proof bubble you stuffed him in, by the time he can manage it, it'll likely be the LEGION's problem rather then the League. Might want to leave them a post-it note on him though.

"Warning: Black Hole may contain ill-tempered regenerating cave men, 21st century vintage. Handle with Care"

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You'd want to aim for a big black hole, not a small one. With smaller ones, tidal effects can "spaghettify" anyone or anything falling in, which is exactly what it sounds like. Bigger ones don't have as much of a effect, so you can actually survive the (infinite) fall in.

You also want to avoid one with a accretion disk:

Spoiler: big image

Pretty? Yes.
Bathes everything in judicious quantities of gamma rays? Yes.
We wouldn't want to fry him, or worse, give him superpowers.

 

[Mr Zoat]

Luthor

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Thank you, corrected.

 

[Maxx Crowley]

And his non human way of Thinking

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There it is again. Would someone PLEASE actually explain the reasoning behind this.

Because I'm quite human, regardless of what the churchies claim, and OL's way of thinking makes perfect sense to me (Even If I don't always agree), so, I ask for like the tenth time, what the fuck are you people talking about?

As for Vandal Savage....with a power ring I'd lock him in a solid box made out of the same material as the Statue OL made while his mind was being messed with. Then I'd take said box to the farthest reaches of space and bury it a couple miles into the earth of a lifeless planet.

Let Mr. Immortal revive and suffocate as many times as he wants.

 

[Vaermina]

As for Vandal Savage....with a power ring I'd lock him in a solid box made out of the same material as the Statue OL made while his mind was being messed with. Then I'd take said box to the farthest reaches of space and bury it a couple miles into the earth of a lifeless planet.

Let Mr. Immortal revive and suffocate as many times as he wants.

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Vandal Savage isn't an idiot.

All that is likely to do is trigger one of the many contingencies he has in place to keep such things from taking him out of the game for long

 

[Mquz]

Vandal Savage isn't an idiot.

All that is likely to do is trigger one of the many contingencies he has in place to keep such things from taking him out of the game for long

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What? An annual teleporter? Keep in mind, while he may be not an idiot, that's a little outside what he usually deals with. The closest thing is being buried alive/ dropped down a mine shaft.
Savage can't deal with being kept alive, though he might be able to choose to respawn on Earth once he dies from hunger/thirst if you don't get rid of his bits. I'm working under the assumption that he can normally operate as a bodyless soul, with his body regrowing when he feels like a certain piece of flesh is what his soul is now located in.
Does the Kola Superdeep borehole actually lead to hell in this universe? That might be an interesting way to kill him without actually giving him a way to respawn, similar to the black hole idea - dropping his "dead" body down a tube 14km long and see if he manages to get out - it's not impossible, it'd just take forever.

 

[Belenus]

He didn't get the Lantern, and started eating Demons, hence the odd font.

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Clearly Arial is the most demonic of fonts.

 

[Maxx Crowley]

Vandal Savage isn't an idiot.

All that is likely to do is trigger one of the many contingencies he has in place to keep such things from taking him out of the game for long

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So...the person who so often complains of bad writing is now literally advocating bad writing in the form of a blatant asspull?

Savage has died countless times in all manner of ways. He has failed in his goals for thousands of years, and continuously gets his ass kicked. So yeah, he IS an idiot.

Beyond that, what's he got on his person as a "contingency" against my dragging him hundreds of billions of lightyears away from earth, sealing him in a solid block of unbreakable material, and then burying him miles within a lifeless planet that somehow, SOMEWAY, my power ring couldn't pick up? Which then is going to, magically I guess, somehow get him back to earth just in time for me to take him to a literal death god to deal with. After I beat him unmercilessly of course. Because I have super powers, and he's just a fucking caveman.

Does he have access to the fucking script now?

 

[Sceptic]

Clearly Arial is the most demonic of fonts.

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Hardly the most demonic, but it's up there. I'm looking at you, Comic Sans and Apple Casual.

 

[Vaermina]

So...the person who so often complains of bad writing is now literally advocating bad writing in the form of a blatant asspull?

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The simple fact is the guy has been alive for 50,000+ years, and a significant percentage of that time has been spent with people wanting him dead.

Meaning the super obvious solution of "Lets bury this guy somewhere far away in an indestructible box" would have been tried at least once during that time. So the fact that he's not still buried far away in an indestructible box, tells us he has ways around that particular way of being gotten rid of.

Savage has died countless times in all manner of ways. He has failed in his goals for thousands of years, and continuously gets his ass kicked. So yeah, he IS an idiot.

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Nobody knows Savage's actual goals, so good job being psychic.

Beyond that, what's he got on his person as a "contingency" against my dragging him hundreds of billions of lightyears away from earth, sealing him in a solid block of unbreakable material, and then burying him miles within a lifeless planet that somehow, SOMEWAY, my power ring couldn't pick up? Which then is going to, magically I guess, somehow get him back to earth just in time for me to take him to a literal death god to deal with. After I beat him unmercilessly of course. Because I have super powers, and he's just a fucking caveman.

Does he have access to the fucking script now?

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You answered your own question.

Magic.

 

[Siskulous]

Vandal Savage isn't an idiot.

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He....kinda.....is? Unlimited time to build up wealth, massive financial reserves enough to buy enough influence to outstrip the Koch brothers and George Soros combined through completely legal means, everything he needs to live a life of leisure for the next thousand years or so, and instead of doing any of that he repeatedly picks fights with the likes of the Justice League in attempts to take over the world cuz ego.

 

[Maxx Crowley]

The simple fact is the guy has been alive for 50,000+ years, and a significant percentage of that time has been spent with people wanting him dead.

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Wanting him dead and killing him over, and over, and over again.

Clearly, learning from mistakes is beyond him.

Meaning the super obvious solution of "Lets bury this guy somewhere far away in an indestructible box" would have been tried at least once during that time. So the fact that he's not still buried far away in an indestructible box, tells us he has ways around that particular way of being gotten rid of.

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Pretty sure my solution's distance is so beyond "Far away" that the phrase is meaningless.

Also? Being sarcastic about my supposedly being psychic and knowing Savage's plans, but then coming at me with a nice, snobby "Well clearly this would have happened." when you likewise have no evidence that it has? Priceless really.

But fine. Put him in a box, and hand him over to Hades. Oh wait, nevermind...I'm sure the trumped up caveman can totally pull of an escape that the punished dead and the FUCKING TITANS couldn't.

Finally, he apparently didn't have a solution planned to Grayven Orange eating his ass. Gee, you'd think someone would have tried assimilation of some sort before.

Nobody knows Savage's actual goals, so good job being psychic.

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Yeah. It's like I've read comics where he clearly states his desire for world domination/destruction. It came to me for the low, low price of $5

You answered your own question.

Magic.

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The level of shit that you're full of amazes me at this point. If I didn't think it before, by Kirby am I sure of it now.

 

[Sceptic]

So the fact that he's not still buried far away in an indestructible box, tells us he has ways around that particular way of being gotten rid of.

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Or that people over the last 50,000 years haven't done a particularly good job of making indestructible boxes. Or that it's more difficult to make the box, knock him out, and dump him alive but unconscious in said box than it is to just cut his head off and burn his body thoroughly and hope for the best.

 

[CTrees]

Usually font changes in this fic imply mental influence. Sybarite appears to not be entirely in his right mind.

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Thanks. I started reading this story while it was still on Spacebattles, but I also normally read it from my phone. On SB and SV, font changes never really showed up on my phone, but apparently they do here. So I never noticed them before, and didn't really pay any attention to the discussion of it.

(And yes, invistext is a pain, but at least highlighting will reveal it - no such luck with font changes)

 

[Ganurath]

Vandal Savage isn't an idiot.

All that is likely to do is trigger one of the many contingencies he has in place to keep such things from taking him out of the game for long

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Chinaverse says that he is, and that he doesn't have any, because it happened to him there and it worked.

 

[Mquz]

Chinaverse says that he is, and that he doesn't have any, because it happened to him there and it worked.

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Except that the box is the Chinaverse - if I remember - and Time Trapper is trying to open it. Did he actually lose in that universe?
Actually, that might be an interesting solution to his problem - use Vandal Savage's infinite life span, and therefore infinite possible timelines caused - to power the timeline.I'm sure there's some way to turn him into an unlimited energy generator. He does seem to be an infinite motion machine in that he doesn't seem to need anything to come back to life.

 

[Vaermina]

Chinaverse says that he is, and that he doesn't have any, because it happened to him there and it worked.

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No, they think it worked.

Just like Grayven "thinks" he successfully dealt with Savage.

 

[Shadow Archon]

No, they think it worked.

Just like Grayven "thinks" he successfully dealt with Savage.

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Aaaand if Mr. Zoat outright said "And Vandal Savage is permanently dealt with in these universes" you would say what?

"That's bad writing!"?

Assimilation seems to deal with eating souls just fine, and a more magically built up super-state likely could easily deal with a single immortal guy.

Heck, just trap his soul in a magical prison it can't escape, and he should be gone permanently.

 

[Ganurath]

No, they think it worked.

Just like Grayven "thinks" he successfully dealt with Savage.

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Time travelling Vandal Savage from an alternate timeline confirmed that it worked in the Chinaverse timeline.

Actually, since that time travelling Vandal Savage was from Paul's timeline, does that mean that Paul's Vandal Savage has been disposed of as well?

That question was directed at Mr Zoat rather than Vaermina.

As for Grayven, his attempt to Assimilate the Star Conqueror hitting the entire network shows that the process extends to detached parts of a gestalt being. When the Assimilation was at one hundred percent, there was no rounding involved.

 

[Mr Zoat]

13th January
Morning
Early… Ish..?

"…of the seventeen court cases for sexual harassment."

"I thought that you might bring those up. And I'll tell you what I told the jury: I'm not an employee. I'm an investor and sometimes a consultant. Even if I was an employee, one member of staff flirting with or hitting on another member of staff isn't against our code of conduct and God this is boring." I gaze at her despondently as we continue drifting over the Nairobi skyline. "Did you really come all this way to hassle me about my sex life?"

"Ordinarily, no, but yours resulted in you spending time in court. That is something I am concerned about."

"Acquitted on all counts, because it turns out, hitting on someone and being happy to take no for an answer is not a criminal offence, and if you're asking me then you know that already. Come on, there's no point asking me a question when you already know the answer, what are you hoping to get out of this?"

"To get a better impression of you as a person."

"Princess, I'm shallow as a puddle! I didn't decide to call myself 'Sybarite' by accident."

"You would not be the first hero to disguise his nature."

"Oh, like a reverse Batman? Libidinite by night, corporate crusader by day? I wouldn't have time."

"So you say. But you would not have relentlessly requested access to a device which few outside Themyscira have heard of if personal gratification was your sole concern."

"Yeaaaaah… No. There's a gap between 'true altruism' and 'basic decency'. As far as I can see, the only reason for someone not sharing that technology is if they were deliberately sabotaging the human species."

"That is a strong statement."

"And you know that I mean it. I mean… I'm not a nice guy by any stretch of the imagination. I'm just a… Guy. But if someone was on fire right in front of me and I had a bucket of water in my hands… I'd throw it."

"And I imagine that it would help the recovery rate of the participants in your gladiatorial contests."

An obvious reference to one of Veronica's older business, Meta-Brawl. Which was actually only illegal due to the ban on metahumans participating in professional sports. But that ban wasn't in force on Madagascar, and it turns out that satellite and internet pay-per-view exist. Really, Veronica just needed a little investment and a slightly more international range of attractions in order to make a go of the thing. Not that she spends much time running it now, but it still turns a profit and I hear that some criminal gangs are using metahuman 'champions' to settle disputes there.

People are such fascinating creatures.

"And in boxing matches, Penultimate Fighting Championship… Mountaineering…" My usually detached demeanour momentarily vanishes. "Car crashes. Stabbings. Major chirurgery. Jack Knight wasn't this difficult and his stuff was designed to be weaponised."

"I see you've stopped playing the fool."

"I like.. enjoying myself. I hate being serious. Life is to be enjoyed. It's just-" I wave my hands around my head. "-you should be doing that why aren't you doing that is there a reason you're doing that I don't think there's a reason why you're doing that. I don't want to have to care but I have to care, because…" I wave my arms at her instead. "Gahh! The world needs things other than people in costumes hitting each other! Anything outside an actual doomsday attack, car crashes still kill more people than supervillains by far. Why am I, of all people, the one pointing this out!?"

"I couldn't have learned that you felt like that by studying your public profile. Despite your outburst, it actually improves my opinion of you."

"So can we have it?"

"I still have other-"

"Ohcomeon!"

"-other concerns."

"Like what?" Hm. "If it's about all the supervillains Veronica hired, they're committing a lot less crimes now."

She nods. "I am aware of that. I was talking about the source of your power."

Hmmm. Normally I'd just shrug that off, but… Nascent Truth Goddess, so that's not an option. "What about it?"

"Doctor Fate has told me that you reek of demon magic."

Oh yeah, that. Giovanni Zatara steps down from the Justice League the day someone starts wearing the Helm of Fate. Do they really think that's fooling anyone?

"Well he reeks of mothballs."

"Do you use demon magic?"

"As I understand it, no."

"Are you a demon?"

"Aaaaaaaahh… I don't.. think so? I didn't start as one, but things get a bit fuzzy after a while."

"Then how do you explain it?"

"I power myself by eating demons." My rib cage splits open, my chest cavity glowing orange as it chomps at her before closing. "My first was an incubus, which may have impacted my subsequent behaviour a little. And if you'd like a demonstration of that…"

"That would explain your libido."

"I don't know. I mean, you're hot, but I wasn't practising for a year and a half just for you. I don't actually have that much experience with super strong women."

Tuppence insisted on turning every assignation into a test of strength. She called it off after I ate a malumi and could handle her without burning power at a ludicrous rate. Apparently she likes her men on the verge of panic.

"I was referring to you consuming an incubus."

"I don't know. I've eaten more demons since, and my behaviour didn't change afterwards. And anyway, I don't see it as a problem." It's a bit of a risk, but I create a glowing orange sword in my right hand. "Does that feel demonic to you?"

She holds up a small stone marked with an ankh. The mark shimmers gold for a moment, but doesn't otherwise react. She checks it, then nods.

"If you were to be granted use of the designs for the purple healing ray, how would you use it?"

"I wouldn't. I have no head for business. Veronica would." I frown. What was it..? "We work on high volume production, since any country who deals with us risks a trade embargo and we need to be able to completely replace other suppliers. We won't be trying to create artificial scarcity-. Or rather more artificial scarcity."

She nods slowly. "I.. will.. want to see her business plan and consult with my mother before I agree to anything. But I am at least willing to continue exploring the matter."

"The business plan, the sex, or both, because honestly-."

"The business plan."