With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

[Darko]

Okay, let's not start quoting the opening of the Hitchhiker's guide to the Galaxy, please? I know, the opening is right there... Do please control yourselves...

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Could you control yourself?

Obviously no.

Clearly not interested in prisoners for ransom, then. Probably easier to raid their stores and systems without a crew to defend it... Or they were just assholes.

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Or all of the above.

To be fair, whatever blew up Krypton was weird. Enough force to shatter a planet, but not destroy the chunks entirely, nor the little starships carrying the last of the Els...

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It's usually either something Zod or Brainiac did, another guy trying to kill what he sees as a threat, or divine shenanigans.

I honestly doubt this Varthanon is wily enough to play so long a game.

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He may be. We haven't really seen all that much of him.

Guess we'll see what the privateers have to say for themselves tomorrow, as well as what Lantern Gozzi found in their systems. Any guesses, folks? I'm betting something related to how they stopped the ship they killed...

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For some reason I'm thinking it's connected to the Anti-Monitor.

 

[Handlewithcare]

So nice to see protagonists who are allowed to just curb stomp enemies. Recently I've read too much "but pluckiness will help you overcome any technological disparity"

 

[BlueMangoAdea]

See, this is why the Computer Tyrants got one over on the Coluans. Meat can't work as fast as metal or crystal.

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Even metal and crystal are inferior compared to the pure bullshit of the emotional spectrum.

 

[Mr Zoat]

suggest -> suggests

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Thank you, corrected.

Mr Zoat, since Gozzi will be Paul's apprentice, will she be following him for the next few episodes?

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Yes.

What species is Amalak again?

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His homeworld is called Timaron.

...before the boarders shot them.

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Thank you, corrected.

So nice to see protagonists who are allowed to just curb stomp enemies. Recently I've read too much "but pluckiness will help you overcome any technological disparity"

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They're mooks. Only 1 hit point.

 

[NightmareWarden]

Mr Zoat since a few commenters have brought it up: do you have any strong feelings or criticisms for Superboy Prime and his storylines?

 

[Mr Zoat]

Mr Zoat since a few commenters have brought it up: do you have any strong feelings or criticisms for Superboy Prime and his storylines?

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No.

I mean, I find punching the walls of reality to be a stupid idea, but it's honestly no more objectively stupid than a lot of things in comics. I'm not really sure what his motive is supposed to be after he gave up on bringing Earth Prime back, but again, plenty of characters have iffy motives.

 

[Darko]

I'm not really sure what his motive is supposed to be after he gave up on bringing Earth Prime back, but again, plenty of characters have iffy motives.

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I think he just went crazy.

Though I haven't read those comics in a long time, so I could be wrong.

 

[LazySloth13]

I always figured the reason why Superboy-Prime was so crazy was the fact he lost his planet, including his parents and would be girlfriend, had a supposedly 'good' version of Lex Luthor whispering in his ear, and the only other adults in his life was an elderly couple who were more focused on spending their last moments together than give proper psychological help to a grieving teen. Not to mention having to witness the various comic book characters, who turned out to be real people, become dark and gritty that it made the sacrifice he made seem tainted.

Hell Time Trapper Paul fucked with time and space so much was due to the influence of being an orange lantern, he wanted his friends and lovers badly enough to risk working with Krona. Most other versions of Paul see the Paragon fusing with the Ophidian as insane but doing so led to his enlightenment which in turn led to him making less avarice fueled bad decisions.

Not to mention DC comics is composed of various writers who may or may not do some research in the character they're writing about, where Mr. Zoat is only limited to his creativity and ability to remember previous plot points or character interactions, and with how long comics and this story has been going maybr difficult to do at times.

 

[FourthPear]

I'm kind of expecting Eradicator based on the Krypton discussion.
And I feel like Superboy Prime version of Paul will be the next Multiversal big bad.

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...wasn't Superboy Prime raised on a world with no magic or supernatural shenanigans? Sound familiar?

 

[BoML]

And perhaps find a certain lunar station and its' resident memory engram?

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I distinctly recall that it was Paragon Paul who got the lunar station AND the memory engram and hauled them both to Sol system.

I mean, the reason he visited Rao at all was to show it to Superboy and to test his new heat vision.

 

[Acolyte]

I have a question, how do you make Mythril and orichalcum in this story. I need to know for a jump chain story.

 

[Darko]

I have a question, how do you make Mythril and orichalcum in this story. I need to know for a jump chain story.

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I think orichalcum was made by using gold.

The blacksmith used their magic to magically refine gold and give it magical properties.

 

[Gilhelmi]

What species is Amalak again?

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I do not remember his exact species. But I do remember that his home world was turned to glass by General Zod. This was the reason why he was sentenced to the Phantom Zone but Krypton being Krypton they never told anybody that they arrested the man.

Speaking of the Phantom Zone. How is Kara Zor-El and Green Lantern Tomar-Ra doing on the Parole project? Have they found a world under a Red Sun to start a trial release release program? I would assume they might have a few dozen of the people arrested for "jaywalking" out by now, but only if they found a decent world to settle.

 

[Mr Zoat]

I do not remember his exact species. But I do remember that his home world was turned to glass by General Zod. This was the reason why he was sentenced to the Phantom Zone but Krypton being Krypton they never told anybody that they arrested the man.

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No, he got arrested for trying to overthrow the government. They just thought that since the most they could punish him with under law was sending him to the phantom zone, there wasn't much point in trying him for anything else as well. And Amalak considers them complicit for letting Zod get into that position in the first place.

Speaking of the Phantom Zone. How is Kara Zor-El and Green Lantern Tomar-Ra doing on the Parole project? Have they found a world under a Red Sun to start a trial release release program? I would assume they might have a few dozen of the people arrested for "jaywalking" out by now, but only if they found a decent world to settle.

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Honestly, I'd forgotten about it. I'll have to remember to put something during the next episode.

 

[Flightless Man]

...wasn't Superboy Prime raised on a world with no magic or supernatural shenanigans? Sound familiar?

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My reasoning for seeing SuperPaul Prime as a eventual threat. and now I can say 'called it'.

 

[Darko]

My reasoning for seeing SuperPaul Prime as a eventual threat. and now I can say 'called it'.

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There may be a chance that Tangseid, an evil version of Paul, could become some kind of threat.

Time Trapper may have also counted since his actions almost lead to multiversal destruction.

 

[Radix]

I can't remember, was the idea of a cosmic Light of Graven, Qward, Reach, etc thrown out or still plausible? Cause I am getting a feeling like early season 1 where groups were cooperating.

 

[Darko]

I can't remember, was the idea of a cosmic Light of Graven, Qward, Reach, etc thrown out or still plausible? Cause I am getting a feeling like early season 1 where groups were cooperating.

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Renegade has worked with Qward, like getting them to make a ring, but he also doesn't care all that much about the Reach and is focused on Apokalips.

Actual Grayven is fighting with the Reach in the paragon side, and may also be doing it in the renegade side.

 

[Mr Zoat]

9th July 2012
02:32 GMT

I blink, breath hissing through my teeth.

"Ugh, they're doing a Batarian."

Lantern Gozzi frowns. "Batar-? Ah. No, the Batarian Hegemony were pursuing their own interests. The Leentniar would be more like the Harvesters from Independence Day, mixed with the Travellers from Stargate: Atlantis."

I smile outwardly. "Popular culture has conditioned me to believe that aliens shouldn't understand human pop-culture references. I suppose that power rings bypass that completely."

I don't smile inwardly. What do you do when your neighbour is expansionist, xenocidal and highly skilled at cultural manipulation? You pack up and move, because you can't stop them taking your worlds anyway. You make yourself useful, so that they won't feel the need to wipe you out on principle. You isolate yourselves, so that there's no avenue for their manipulation. And you make sure that you're prepared to move again, because the people behind you haven't stopped being expansionist, xenocidal and highly skilled at cultural manipulation.

You stop having contact with other people, and so stop seeing them as people. You can't build long term fixed structures yourself, and so you take them from the things you've unpeopled.

You don't want the Reach warping your culture, and so you do it for them.

"I don't suppose there's any chance that they kept deliberately misleading information on their computer, is there?"

"Given the level of security and the other layers of more readily accessible false information, it seems unlikely."

Because that means that it's migration time. The raids continue, but now their main fleet is going in to active mode. We don't have particularly good intelligence on them, because the Reach appears to have decided that letting them act as unofficial agent provocateurs is a perfectly viable method. But if they're going active now…

"Anything in there about why?"

"No. That doesn't appear to be how their culture works."

And no survivors amongst the Leentniar. The people who surrendered are local pirate groups they co-opted, in order to increase their plausible deniability. The Leentniar appear to have gone in for some sort of electromagnetic suicide implant, just to make sure that nothing in their brains was readable post-mortem.

Such a waste.

"Nothing about the location of the other raiders, but I suppose they're not our primary concern now."

We won't even need to retask a L.E.G.I.O.N. patrol fleet. I firmly intend to force the Leentniar to negotiate. They can turn their fleet around, they can hide…

Or they can stop existing.

"There are no records here of the fleet's current location. It is most likely-."

"They speak of them as if they are already dead, because that makes it less painful." She looks at me curiously. "Terry Pratchett. Not all cultural artefacts travel between parallel universes. They cut off external contacts with the majority of their people, but these people had external contacts. If they rejoined the community then they'd be a vector for cultural infection. Do they get actual commands from headquarters, or just bulletins?"

"Commands, but they're non-specific. General priorities."

"They unpeople themselves for the greater good. Selfless of them."

"Yes." She presses a button and shifts the display to a map of local space. "Based on the standing orders and assuming that the other raider ships are more or less comparable, I would estimate that there are seventy eight groups operating across this part of the Periphery."

A tiny fragment in three dimensions, until you remember what the scale is.

"Any idea where the main fleet is?"

A button press, and a number of worlds are highlighted.

"Based on their past behaviour and predicted route, these are their most likely targets. These are L.E.G.I.O.N. affiliates, while the rest are not."

"Your suggestion?"

"Leentniar ships are predicted to be weak against Lanterns, but would be utterly devastating if given a clear run at an inhabited world. We can't intercept them as we don't know their location. There are L.E.G.I.O.N. ships in the area, and they have communications gear that will put them in touch with us the moment an attack happens. You and I can take one of the other worlds each and notify all other N.E.M.O. assets once the attack starts."

"What sort of data did this ship have on local defences?"

"A reasonable summary."

"Anything to suggest that they have real time in-system monitoring?"

She takes a moment to review. "Not with any certainty."

"So do we think that these raiders provide intelligence information?"

"The computer storage centres on the raider convoy were annihilated."

"Personal data storage devices?"

"I didn't see any that were intact. But given the general piracy…" She calls up a manifest. "They did take personal computers, but there's no evidence that they were studying them in detail. They would be relatively easy to fence."

"Easy to send home for the analysts, too."

"Where are you going with this?"

"You and I can hide easier than fleets of ships. If we had a flotilla move away from the world they were defending to go after 'pirates', it might lure the Leentniar military in."

"If they knew it had left. I think that depends too much on things we don't know. Unless you do know them."

"I'm afraid not. And I didn't get a good enough look at their-" I glance down at the bodies of the bridge crew. "-mental networks to teleport to their fleet's location reliably."

Hm.

"Seventy eight groups, mostly single large ships and their parasites?"

"That would be my estimation. However, it's just a logical inference based upon the available data, not a true strategic analysis. If some ships have substantially better drives then it could be less. If some are engaging in legitimate work as well then it could be more."

Our rings shimmer for a moment as a L.E.G.I.O.N. patrol vessel arrives to take our prisoners on board. The ships will be studied and salvaged, but a thorough interrogation of the pirates is more likely to yield useful data in the short term.

"I assume there's no data on how they communicated with their superiors?" Lantern Gozzi shakes her head. "Then we'll go for your plan, pending the results of the interrogation. Do you have any preference on the planet?"

 

[Handlewithcare]

I do hope they manage to salvage the Leentniar.

The Reach managed to destroy them without destryoing them and killing them would be another Reach win.

Assuming they remember the original reason for the Exodus they might be willing to join the Anti-Reach alliance and produce some very motivated Lanterns.

 

[Ngamer11]

I do hope they manage to salvage the Leentniar.

The Reach managed to destroy them without destryoing them and killing them would be another Reach win.

Assuming they remember the original reason for the Exodus they might be willing to join the Anti-Reach alliance and produce some very motivated Lanterns.

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I'm doubtful of that happening. I would be more interested in seeing Paul demonstrate to Gozzi the ruthlessness he had when he decimated the Citadelians. Then they can have a conversation where Paul explains to her how he could act "soft" most of the time and then go straight to extreme measures the moment he decides the peaceful method is proven useless.

 

[Darko]

Lantern Gozzi frowns. "Batar-? Ah. No, the Batarian Hegemony were pursuing their own interests. The Leentniar would be more like the Harvesters from Independence Day, mixed with the Travellers from Stargate: Atlantis."

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Ahh, Coluan brains. Very useful.

because they people behind you haven't stopped being

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'the people'

take out prisoners on

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'take our'

Then we'll go for your plan

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Maybe 'with your'

 

[Mr Zoat]

I'm doubtful of that happening. I would be more interested in seeing Paul demonstrate to Gozzi the ruthlessness he had when he decimated the Citadelians. Then they can have a conversation where Paul explains to her how he could act "soft" most of the time and then go straight to extreme measures the moment he decides the peaceful method is proven useless.

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He didn't decimate the Citadelians. Decimate means 'kill one in ten'.

'the people'
'take our'

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Thank you, corrected.

Maybe 'with your'

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No, that's correct.

 

[moralrelativity]

He didn't decimate the Citadelians. Decimate means 'kill one in ten'.

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I used to fight this battle too. But now even the Oxford dictionary has "Kill, destroy, or remove a large proportion of." as the primary meaning, with the traditional 1 in 10 meaning as # 2.

 

[Lord Ernest]

Yeah, no decimation involved with the Citadelians. That was straight genocide and I even agree with that one, the Citadelians had it coming, so no need trying to use a "softer" word like decimate.

I'm not sure if these guys do, though, but from the information I gathered in this segment they're pretty close. To survive they butchered their own culture to become nomad raiders, I think? Just moving ahead of the Rach expansion wave of the 'who knows how many' years, destroy a planet's population to occupy it and doing it again and again every time the Reach gets close? I think that's what they're doing, right?

Nobody to advocate for the races they have destroyed before, I guess. And if they can be convinced to change their ways and support the effort against the Reach then they would be atoning a bit and doing something productive, I suppose. But I wouldn't blink if they get annihilated as well, really.

 

[Chojin Patriarch]

9th July 2012
02:32 GMT

I blink, breath hissing through my teeth.

"Ugh, they're doing a Batarian."

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I do hope Mass Effect exists in this universe, or that reference will go completely over Gozzi's head. And that's an interesting insinuation. I'm guessing you're referring to the Batarian method of deniable assets, sending out ships crewed by military forces, with all data aboard pointing to the ship being a pirate vessel stolen from a military source...

Spoiler: Commentary spoilered for length

Lantern Gozzi frowns. "Batar-? Ah. No, the Batarian Hegemony were pursuing their own interests. The Leentniar would be more like the Harvesters from Independence Day, mixed with the Travellers from Stargate: Atlantis."

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Heh, quick to check the Terran cultural database, I see. I wonder how different each of those franchises is in a universe with superheroes? Betting most of them ignore their existence completely.

I smile outwardly. "Popular culture has conditioned me to believe that aliens shouldn't understand human pop-culture references. I suppose that power rings bypass that completely."

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And the entire database of cultural references you brought with you when you left Earth... Which given the storage capacity of a Power Ring, means a standing copy of the entire internet as of the last visit? Living the dream...

I don't smile inwardly. What do you do when your neighbour is expansionist, xenocidal and highly skilled at cultural manipulation? You pack up and move, because you can't stop them taking your worlds anyway. You make yourself useful, so that they won't feel the need to wipe you out on principle. You isolate yourselves, so that there's no avenue for their manipulation. And you make sure that you're prepared to move again, because they people behind you haven't stopped being expansionist, xenocidal and highly skilled at cultural manipulation.

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And in the process, end up giving up the very culture you think you were protecting. Sheer, overwhelming foolishness.

You stop having contact with other people, and so stop seeing them as people. You can't build long term fixed structures yourself, and so you take them from the things you've unpeopled.

You don't want the Reach warping your culture, and so you do it for them.

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For a mass effect example: The Quarian flotilla. Not as extreme as this example, true, but they've had to make many changes to every part of their lives... In the end, the Quarians that return to Rannoch are very different than those who fled it three and a half centuries earlier.

"I don't suppose there's any chance that they kept deliberately misleading information on their computer, is there?"

"Given the level of security and the other layers of more readily accessible false information, it seems unlikely."

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Guessing anything about the real People is heavily encrypted, concealed deep in false directories and password-locked to hell and back?

Because that means that it's migration time. The raids continue, but now their main fleet is going in to active mode. We don't have particularly good intelligence on them, because the Reach appears to have decided that letting them act as unofficial agent provocateurs is a perfectly viable method. But if they're going active now…

"Anything in there about why?"

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The obvious answer is Reach encroachment... But that's too obvious. Perhaps the Reach are pushing them into moving, despite having no plans to pursue them. Merely driving a wild herd into a stampede through their enemies' territory...

"No. That doesn't appear to be how their culture works."

And no survivors amongst the Leentniar. The people who surrendered are local pirate groups they co-opted, in order to increase their plausible deniability. The Leentniar appear to have gone in for some sort of electromagnetic suicide implant, just to make sure that nothing in their brain was readable post-mortem.

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Suicide triggers? These people are seriously paranoid. And I have no doubt they consider themselves patriots and martyrs, protecting their race from outside interference....

Such a waste.

"Nothing about the location of the other raiders, but I suppose they're not our primary concern now."

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If their technology is so primitive (so to speak) that they can't or won't stand and fight the Reach, any L.E.G.I.O.N patrol would stomp them easily...

We won't even need to retask a L.E.G.I.O.N. patrol fleet. I firmly intend to force the Leentniar to negotiate. They can turn their fleet around, they can hide…

Or they can stop existing.

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And given his utilitarian views, that's no easy decision.

"There are no records here of the fleet's current location. It is most likely-."

"They speak of them as if they are already dead, because that makes it less painful." She looks at me curiously. "Terry Pratchett. Not all cultural artefacts travel between parallel universes. They cut off external contacts with the majority of their people, but these people had external contacts. If they rejoined the community then they'd be a vector for cultural infection. Do they get actual commands from headquarters, or just bulletins?"

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Presumably said missives are deliberately and carefully coded to prevent understanding by outsiders, and relayed through so many proxies it could come from an entire sector away...

"Commands, but they're non-specific. General priorities."

"They unpeople themselves for the greater good. Selfless of them."

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Like I said: They're probably hailed as patriots and martyrs. Before they're promptly memory-holed out of existence.

"Yes." She presses a button and shifts the display to a map of local space. "Based on the standing orders and assuming that the other raider ships are more or less comparable, I would estimate that there are seventy eight groups operating across this part of the Periphery."

A tiny fragment in three dimensions, until you remember what the scale is.

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Dozens of light-years, at a minimum. A scale the human mind is just not built to comprehend fully.

"Any idea where the main fleet is?"

A button press, and a number of worlds are highlighted.

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Still a lot of possibilities. Especially if they can adjust their flight-path easily.

"Based on their past behaviour and predicted route, these are their most likely targets. These are L.E.G.I.O.N. affiliates, while the rest are not."

"Your suggestion?"

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Wait for them to decide on a final approach? Takes too long for OL's plans. Go looking out in the Black? Futile, given the vastness even for the number of ships a fleet comprising an entire race would involve. Looks like the best option is baiting a trap...

"Leentniar ships are predicted to be weak against Lanterns, but would be utterly devastating if given a clear run at an inhabited world. We can't intercept them as we don't know their location. There are L.E.G.I.O.N. ships in the area, and they have communications gear that will put them in touch with us the moment an attack happens. You and I can take one of the other worlds each and notify all other N.E.M.O. assets once the attack starts."

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Though OL will be the fastest asset they have, in terms of response time. So if they turn up somewhere he isn't, he'll be there to negotiate promptly. Let's hope it goes better than Corben Dallas' negotiating in The Fifth Element...

"What sort of data did this ship have on local defences?"

"A reasonable summary."

"Anything to suggest that they have real time in-system monitoring?"

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Thinking of something quicker, OL?

She takes a moment to review. "Not with any certainty."

"So do we think that these raiders provide intelligence information?"

"The computer storage centres on the raider convoy were annihilated."

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That doesn't mean they didn't raid them for information, just that they destroyed them, perhaps to cover up evidence of said raiding?

"Personal data storage devices?"

"I didn't see any that were intact. But given the general piracy…" She calls up a manifest. "They did take personal computers, but there's no evidence that they were studying them in detail. They would be relatively easy to fence."

"Easy to send home for the analysts, too."

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It'd be hard to stop non-Leentniar crewmembers from looting, too. What would one such device, say from a senior officer, going missing from the haul?

"Where are you going with this?"

"You and I can hide easier than fleets of ships. If we had a flotilla move away from the world they were defending to go after 'pirates', it might lure the Leentniar military in."

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Ah, OL. I guess you want this settled sooner rather than later, eh?

"If they knew it had left. I think that depends too much on things we don't know. Unless you do know them."

"I'm afraid not. And I didn't get a good enough look at their-" I glance down at the bodies of the bridge crew. "-mental networks to teleport to their fleet's location reliably."

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Even after years away from home, there's no doubt they'd have thoughts of the families they'd never see again, I suppose.

Hm.

"Seventy eight groups, mostly single large ships and their parasites?"

"That would be my estimation. However, it's just a logical inference based upon the available data, not a true strategic analysis. If some ships have substantially better drives then it could be less. If some are engaging in legitimate work as well then it could be more."

Click to shrink...

A tricky conundrum. Gamble on the main fleet getting word of OL's planned diversion, or be patient and wait them out? One guess which OL would choose...

Our rings shimmer for a moment as a L.E.G.I.O.N. patrol vessel arrives to take out prisoners on board. The ships will be studied and salvaged, but a thorough interrogation of the pirates is more likely to yield useful data in the short term.

"I assume there's no data on how they communicated with their superiors?" Lantern Gozzi shakes her head. "Then we'll go for your plan, pending the results of the interrogation. Do you have any preference on the planet?"

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Huh. I suppose his plan did depend on a lot of unknowns... The question becomes how long will they end up waiting, then?

Bet this is going to be frustrating for OL, having to wait for the threat to get its invasion on. Guess we'll be waiting to see how his negotiations go... Sounds like another chance for a cutaway, too.

 

[Darko]

Which given the storage capacity of a Power Ring, means a standing copy of the entire internet as of the last visit? Living the dream...

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I'm imagining this happening to Brainiac.



While it may lead to him deciding to wipe out humanity, I can't help but fell that he would be somewhat justified.

Suicide triggers? These people are seriously paranoid. And I have no doubt they consider themselves patriots and martyrs, protecting their race from outside interference....

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Killing yourself before the Reach gets you is probably a good idea.

And given his utilitarian views, that's no easy decision.

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Paul may be a utilitarian, but he hasn't, and judging by the Gate chapters. probably never will embrace a purely utilitarian mindset.

Even after years away from home, there's no doubt they'd have thoughts of the families they'd never see again, I suppose.

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Unless they've edited that out or the ones that currently make up the species have never seen their home and the ones that did are dead.

 

[BR549]

"They speak of them as if they are already dead, because that makes it less painful." She looks at me curiously. "Terry Pratchett. Not all cultural artefacts travel between parallel universes. They cut off external contacts with the majority of their people, but these people had external contacts. If they rejoined the community then they'd be a vector for cultural infection. Do they get actual commands from headquarters, or just bulletins?"

"Commands, but they're non-specific. General priorities."

"They unpeople themselves for the greater good. Selfless of them."

Click to shrink...

Like I said: They're probably hailed as patriots and martyrs. Before they're promptly memory-holed out of existence.

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...my immediate thought here was the Liir from Sword of the Stars, and specifically the Black Swimmers.

 

[Mr Zoat]

I used to fight this battle too. But now even the Oxford dictionary has "Kill, destroy, or remove a large proportion of." as the primary meaning, with the traditional 1 in 10 meaning as # 2.

Click to shrink...

 

[Profipfreely]

Oh no, Zoat's one true weakness! Linguistic drift!