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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Reader mode
Mr Zoat said:
I wrote a version of my SI who became a sociopathic mind-controller, and it's not like the main version is exactly nice. If someone wrote a story like that and I heard about it I'd probably read... At least the first bit, to see if it was any good. If it wasn't I'd just ignore it on the grounds that it really doesn't affect me.

If while reading it I saw people having a problem with it, I'd encourage them to see it in its true perspective:

2-storm-in-a-teacup-allan-swart.jpg
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Thank you, it's good to know that I was close enough to accurately describing your reaction to that sort of thing. Also, thank you for the image, I'm pretty sure that I've never seen a 'tempest in a teacup' illustrated like that.
 
"Something given has no value" is either very poorly worded, or it's the bankrupt ideal of someone whose worldview was shaped by being very successful in his life, probably from a position of privilege.

Does a slave feel like their freedom has no value when they didn't singlehandedly overthrow the entire society that allowed the system of slavery to exist in the first place? Does a homeless person feel like a home given to them has no value if they didn't pay for it themselves? Does someone denied the right to vote because of the color of their skin or their sex feel like being given the right to vote is meaningless, if not won personally? Does a person's legal protection from cruel and unusual punishment feel meaningless to a person sentenced to a humane punishment because they did not personally force the state to not sentence them in such a way?

Does a billionaire feel like their vast wealth has no value if they simply inherited the fortune? Does a doctor feel like their doctorate has no value because their parents paid for all of the tuition?

Being in a society means that many things are given. Indeed, any society that advances past the most basic of functionality can only operate on the principle of giving at least some of its members enough things that each new generation does not start from scratch.

The very society shown in Starship Troopers shows how bankrupt a society that actually believes in the idea that "something given has no value" really is: its government engineers a false-flag operation that massacres an entire major city's worth of people on Earth, then uses it as justification to engage in a ruthless, genocidal war of conquest (under the guise of a war of "vengeance") against a species that has done humanity no harm and is not a threat. Humanity's soldiers are treated as expendable tools; children are sent to fight hordes of terrifying giant bugs that swarm and viscerally tear them apart, and entire fleets and armies are sent into extreme danger with no appreciation for the potential threats they might face or ways in which their losses might be reduced. Propaganda is forced down the throats of everyone from soldiers to young children; if there are any serious forces of dissent against such blatant warmongering and obviously false justifications for war, there is never any mention of them, even after the war runs into disasters.

It is a society that is both unenlightened and seeks no enlightenment. It is a society moved by greed--not enlightened greed, but shameless, reckless greed.

It is true that some people, under some circumstances, want to earn certain things for themselves (and fairly, by whatever standards they apply), and will feel like it has little or no value otherwise. However, it is also true that some of those cases are people speaking from a position of privilege or luxury.

So a more accurate, and far more applicable concept would be: "Sometimes, being given what you wanted without feeling like you truly earned it yourself renders it meaningless."
 
Relating to the 'Something given has no value' argument, that really only actually operates if the only metric by which you desire things is by self accomplishment. Which I think is the point Paul is trying to make. Drusa seems to be running on self accomplishment- she wants to achieve things herself, but with her ring all the things she previously wanted were rendered obsolete. She still wants things in a personal, immediate fashion which is enough for her ring to function, but she's having trouble beyond that.

The solution then, is as Paul is doing here- presenting her with a series of scenarios that draw attention to her mindset. That she's in 'I must accomplish it for it to have meaning' when Paul, meanwhile, accomplishes things vicariously through those he has lifted up- and as a result is able to leverage his desire on a much greater scale.

Using the starship troopers example, if you get 4th place in a race and the prize for first is $100k and you need that prize for some other reason, being offered $100k for 'free' as a consolation isn't going to change your desire because you set out with different motivations. You didn't want that prize simply to prove you had gotten it. Maybe you needed that money to help someone, or maybe you just really wanted it so you could save your favourite chocolate company from bad decisions you know it was going to make in the future.

Of course it may be that Drusa just isn't suited to the Orange Light. That happens sometimes. Ideological drives change, after all.
 
SaltyWaffles said:
"Something given has no value" is either very poorly worded, or it's the bankrupt ideal of someone whose worldview was shaped by being very successful in his life, probably from a position of privilege.

Does a slave feel like their freedom has no value when they didn't singlehandedly overthrow the entire society that allowed the system of slavery to exist in the first place? Does a homeless person feel like a home given to them has no value if they didn't pay for it themselves? Does someone denied the right to vote because of the color of their skin or their sex feel like being given the right to vote is meaningless, if not won personally? Does a person's legal protection from cruel and unusual punishment feel meaningless to a person sentenced to a humane punishment because they did not personally force the state to not sentence them in such a way?

Does a billionaire feel like their vast wealth has no value if they simply inherited the fortune? Does a doctor feel like their doctorate has no value because their parents paid for all of the tuition?

Being in a society means that many things are given. Indeed, any society that advances past the most basic of functionality can only operate on the principle of giving at least some of its members enough things that each new generation does not start from scratch.

The very society shown in Starship Troopers shows how bankrupt a society that actually believes in the idea that "something given has no value" really is: its government engineers a false-flag operation that massacres an entire major city's worth of people on Earth, then uses it as justification to engage in a ruthless, genocidal war of conquest (under the guise of a war of "vengeance") against a species that has done humanity no harm and is not a threat. Humanity's soldiers are treated as expendable tools; children are sent to fight hordes of terrifying giant bugs that swarm and viscerally tear them apart, and entire fleets and armies are sent into extreme danger with no appreciation for the potential threats they might face or ways in which their losses might be reduced. Propaganda is forced down the throats of everyone from soldiers to young children; if there are any serious forces of dissent against such blatant warmongering and obviously false justifications for war, there is never any mention of them, even after the war runs into disasters.

It is a society that is both unenlightened and seeks no enlightenment. It is a society moved by greed--not enlightened greed, but shameless, reckless greed.

It is true that some people, under some circumstances, want to earn certain things for themselves (and fairly, by whatever standards they apply), and will feel like it has little or no value otherwise. However, it is also true that some of those cases are people speaking from a position of privilege or luxury.

So a more accurate, and far more applicable concept would be: "Sometimes, being given what you wanted without feeling like you truly earned it yourself renders it meaningless."
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That's the Bug Hunt version. And I don't know if that was a false flag, or bad writing.

But honestly? I'm sitting here wondering if it's worth voting in my local election. A hundred years ago... I think I'd have been able to vote, because they changed the laws just after WW1 so that former soldiers could vote. A little further back? Not sure. That was a very big deal at the time, and here's me not feeling moved to use the freedom that came from it.
 
Mr Zoat said:
Alright everyone, a mod is PMing me so in the interest of not getting banned from here as well, could everyone please stop discussing fanfiction crossovers.

Please note that I don't care, I'm just forwarding a mod request.
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To be more precise, there are some that apparently attack those not happy about it. While there is a discussion about it that can be help, things that amount to 'Shut up and bend over be glad your OC is used for this' should stop now.
 
Prince Charon said:
tempest in a teacup
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Is that what that was?

I was over here going "Why is there a lightning storm blasting a cup full of mashed potatoes?"

Which lead to "Do....do they fill cups with mashed potatoes in England?"

I fear where google would have taken me if I'd begun to search for answers.
 
Maxx Crowley said:
Is that what that was?

I was over here going "Why is there a lightning storm blasting a cup full of mashed potatoes?"

Which lead to "Do....do they fill cups with mashed potatoes in England?"

I fear where google would have taken me if I'd begun to search for answers.
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There's-.
hkim said:
I'm just surprised Zoat is changing his behavior based on a mod directive. Has that.. ever happened before?
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An expression I can't talk about right now.

Unrelated to all other issues, I am not against altering my behaviour at moderator request. For example, after finding out that the gold standard counted as 'modern politics', I have avoided mentioning it.
 
I wonder how much of an eye The Light has been keeping on Paul what with EVERYTHING he's accomplished and had a hand in, Constantine becoming a Lord of Chaos, unending the dynamics of Heaven and Hell, the implications of the Pomegranate of Good and Evil, cleaning up The Vega System, creating the The Orange Lantern Corps, encouraging rapid technological and thaumaturgical development.....
 
I'm Texan, never heard either of these idioms. But after a quick google search to learn what they mean I know what y'all are talking about. We tend to use the expression 'making a mountain out of a mole hill' as a reference to someone exaggerating the seriousness of situation out of proportion.
 
Khornelius said:
I'm Texan, never heard either of these idioms. But after a quick google search to learn what they mean I know what y'all are talking about. We tend to use the expression 'making a mountain out of a mole hill' as a reference to someone exaggerating the seriousness of situation out of proportion.
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I've heard and used making a mountain out of a mole hill.
 
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Khornelius said:
I'm Texan, never heard either of these idioms. But after a quick google search to learn what they mean I know what y'all are talking about. We tend to use the expression 'making a mountain out of a mole hill' as a reference to someone exaggerating the seriousness of situation out of proportion.
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"Making a .45 out of a .22"?

That's how Texans say it, right?
 
Negetiations (part 7)
  • Threadmarks
    • 8th August 2012
    09:31 GMT

    "We… Had.. reports.. that you had died."

    The gyuanite diplomatic attaché looks at me nervously. I suppose that from his point of view I'm a combination president/pope/anti-matter bomb, but I'm not really used to being treated in that way. Other Orange Lanterns being deferential, sure. I'm their superior, and the master of a skill they are learning. My fellow superheroes on Earth are people I've worked with or actual friends. This is strange and I'm not sure that I like it.

    "Oh? How?"

    "We.. are not a party to your war with the Reach, but we do try to maintain a degree of awareness of its course. We have no desire to send merchant convoys into systems in dispute."

    "No, I meant, how am I supposed to have died?"

    "I… I doubt that it matters; you're clearly alive."

    "Alive now. I've died twice before."

    "Oh? Oh." The attaché calms down noticeably. "Mind recordings dubbed onto a cloned body? We're aware of some societies using that technique. I always thought that it would promote stagnation, but I suppose that the loss of a vital individual during a war would be damaging enough that it would be worth doing it anyway."

    I shake my head.

    "I'm familiar with the technique. There's a Terminan lawyer on my homeworld, and his people clone anyone who dies of unnatural causes. But no. I can encode my consciousness on my soul. All I need is either a supporting medium or a host body and I'm fine. Organic death just isn't that big a deal for me."

    His face goes slightly purple. Worried confusion.

    "I don't.. think I understand..?"

    "A humanoid's consciousness lies in the electrical potentials of their neural network, right?"

    "That's-. That sounds like an oversimplification, but… Yes, I understand what you mean."

    "But there's nothing inherently special about electrical potentials, is there? There are few species with purely chemical neural networks, a few with exotic energy networks…"

    I pull back, reducing the importance of my physical form and increasing my presence in the orange light. It's a little like when the Ophidian and I switched from my human body to her snake body when we were joined, though I'm still myself. I look down at my translucent form, and then up at the attaché.

    "See? I can transubstantiate at will."

    I shift back into the material as the attaché-.

    "Are you alright?"

    "Ah-. Ah-. A-."

    "Do you require medical attention? If you can't speak, just want it and I'll-."

    "Nono, that's fine! Um. Please remain mundane while you are visiting our world."

    "Alright. I mean, subject to normal self-defence exemptions, sure. Is there some sort of cultural sensitivity I should know about? Because I've been reading your tourist information brochure and I didn't see anything..?"

    "People think of Lantern constructs as something they attack with. If people saw you like that it might inadvertently cause.. confusion."

    "Oh." I nod. "I suppose that makes sense. Now, about me meeting with officials in your government?"

    "Yes, several officials are clearing their schedules and we should be able to have a preliminary meeting with you a little while after you arrive. You.. are.. aware that there is a Reach trade mission on Yuna?"

    "I was planning on boiling the water anyway."

    "I'm sorry, I don't think that translated."

    "When you're in the wilderness and you're not sure whether the local stream is safe to drink from or not, you can boil it to remove impurities and collect the steam to drink. I'm implying that the Reach would contaminate the drinking water."

    "We have very thorough safety procedures for publically-consumable water sources."

    "You wouldn't be the first people to have said that."

    "We are aware of the Reach's habits. Be assured that they and their thralls are monitored closely."

    "Or that. But on your heads be it."

    "To be clear: while we certainly do not expect you to like each other, violent hostility will not be permitted."

    "Don't worry: Clarissi Dox has given me clear orders in that regard. Nothing more cutting than a quip, unless they start it."

    "We would prefer it if you kept away from them entirely. We find that two belligerent groups meeting generally results in hostilities and we are eager to avoid that."

    "If you insist. I think it would be a wasted opportunity, though. I rarely get to meet Reach citizens, and I've never done so somewhere I could have a conversation with one."

    "I really think it would be best."

    "Alright then. Who will I be meeting?"

    "Initially… It.. really depends on the purpose of your visit?"

    "I.. thought that was obvious, but if you want a summary: Reach bad. N.E.M.O. good."

    I grin idiotically for a moment-

    "Friends?"

    -and then regain my normal facial expression.

    "So, obviously, military and trade policy, and interstellar relations. It's not at all surprising that your government has concerns about a major military alliance appearing on your metaphorical doorstep, and I'll do what I can to allay them."

    "We can get people from the Diplomatic Affairs Office, the Defence Force Office and the Trade Commission to meet with you. They can convey the concerns of their superiors and then feed back to them with your responses."

    "That's… Fine for a first meeting, but I'm going to have to meet with someone senior once we've got the general shape of an agreement thrashed out."

    "That will rather depend on how the earlier meetings go."

    "Ah. Alright." I shrug. "I'd have thought that your government would at least want some kind of positive-sounding joint statement to steady the markets, but I'm sure that you know your people better than I do."

    At the moment, at least.

    "Thank you." He bows. "I will convey this to my superiors. I hope that you have a peaceful and productive visit."
     
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