With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

[Mr Zoat]

You might have dropped a word, 'aren't numerous enough' flows better.

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Thank you, corrected.

 

[moralrelativity]

"If you want another opportunity, I'm going out to pick a fight with the Reach. Do you want to come along?"

"You know? I think that I do."

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Oh, I'm excited to think that one or more Sivana's might spend their time fighting the Reach. That could shorten the war by quite a bit. But, more importantly to me, I think there's going to be some cool fights coming up.

 

[Ngamer11]

I lean forward. "Growing up as you did, the way your parents treated you, it's not surprising that you learned to.. cope. But it wouldn't be a sensible trait to include in an AI mind designed to run a military spacecraft." Lex looks decidedly disquieted. "No offence intended. I've long been impressed by how you function in spite of it."

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Found a broken picture. Were Lex's parents abusive or something?

 

[Mr Zoat]

Found a broken picture. Were Lex's parents abusive or something?

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Depends on the continuity.

Edit: picture updated.

 

[Ngamer11]

Depends on the continuity.

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Just curious, but what was the picture that was on the link supposed to show?

 

[Mr Zoat]

Just curious, but what was the picture that was on the link supposed to show?

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I don't remember. I'll try and work it out when I get home this evening.

 

[Michael Vonica]

I've just made my way through this story. I really enjoyed it. Hence the many hours of reading. And now I have some questions. To begin, I think I read somewhere that Krono, the fallout Paul, used perfect FEV on himself, as developed by his research institute and genius associates. My questions are, what exactly is perfect FEV? Do you get to keep your original form, become a radiation proof self regenerating immortal, gain super mutant strength and toughness, and with no risk of mental defect? If Krono can develop this, why is he not offering to develop a cure for super mutants and ghouls by a similar mechanism? I know some would turn him down. Does he make this FEV as available to the public as he makes his psychic powers, or less?

 

[Darko]

I've just made my way through this story. I really enjoyed it. Hence the many hours of reading. And now I have some questions. To begin, I think I read somewhere that Krono, the fallout Paul, used perfect FEV on himself, as developed by his research institute and genius associates. My questions are, what exactly is perfect FEV? Do you get to keep your original form, become a radiation proof self regenerating immortal, gain super mutant strength and toughness, and with no risk of mental defect? If Krono can develop this, why is he not offering to develop a cure for super mutants and ghouls by a similar mechanism? I know some would turn him down. Does he make this FEV as available to the public as he makes his psychic powers, or less?

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I think he was able to succeed with himself because his ring was charged back then, but now it's not, so he may not he able to do it for other people.

 

[Michael Vonica]

Thank you, corrected.

He's been treated with perfected FEV. He's immune to disease and radiation, is stronger, tougher and regenerates rapidly and doesn't appear to age.

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No. The ring charge was used up fixing the neurotropic initiator that gave him psychic powers. The perfected FEV was produced by working with super mutant researchers, Diana and Groom Lake's biotechnology laboratory.

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This answers my questions on what the FEV did to Krono, but it doesn't say how strong and tough he has become, or if his appearance changed, and it doesn't say what he has been doing with this non ring based FEV knowledge. His FEV might not even work on other people due to genetic difference, radiation exposure, and FEV immunity. It might work on vault dwellers. He should still have the resources and experts necessary to do something with it.

 

[Michael Vonica]

I guess the only one with answers is Mr Zoat?

 

[Mr Zoat]

I've just made my way through this story. I really enjoyed it. Hence the many hours of reading. And now I have some questions. To begin, I think I read somewhere that Krono, the fallout Paul, used perfect FEV on himself, as developed by his research institute and genius associates. My questions are, what exactly is perfect FEV? Do you get to keep your original form, become a radiation proof self regenerating immortal, gain super mutant strength and toughness, and with no risk of mental defect? If Krono can develop this, why is he not offering to develop a cure for super mutants and ghouls by a similar mechanism? I know some would turn him down. Does he make this FEV as available to the public as he makes his psychic powers, or less?

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Perfect FEV is the FEV which fulfils the original revised purpose of the stuff. Immunity to disease and radiation, improved strength and endurance and extended lifespan. Krono isn't as strong as most super mutants due to them being far larger.

Most super mutants don't want to be cured. They generally don't remember much about their lives before being dipped. Even if some did, changing a super mutant into an FEV enhanced human isn't the same as enhancing a human. Fuck you Fallout 4.

Ghouls are even more different. I don't think that's an FEV thing, and... Well, at this point the remaining ghouls have either adjusted or gone crazy. Krono would probably be happy to work on that eventually, but it's not a pressing concern.

The Sky Walkers don't talk about their FEV research. It's a major hate subject in both the NCR and Texas.

 

[Michael Vonica]

Thank you for the response. I guess that brings me on to subject number two. Other than the posts made in episodes 95 and 101, were there any other accounts of fantasy Warhammer Paol's actions? I think I saw a post where Mr Zoat summarized what Warhammer Paol did in episode 101 before he actually wrote episode 101, and I was wondering if there was anything similar.

I guess I just like the story structure that Mr Zoat was going for. The idea of leading a group of people who wouldn't regularly cooperate with each other to try and solve a major world problem with a primarily academic approach. There aren't a lot of stories like that, with the only good one I know of (off the top of my head) being Mother of Learning. If anyone has any recommendations like that, I would greatly appreciate it.

 

[Michael Vonica]

Not sure if I'll get any responses to my last post, so I'll just move on to the last thing I'm interested in. What does everyone think is going on with Constantine? I have my own theory, and I could probably get a good view of what everyone thinks from scrolling through the thread, but I'd prefer to ask it here. All I've really heard is that some people think that John Quinn is Golden Boy, and is planning to do something evil, likely involving John Constantine.

 

[Mr Zoat]

Thank you for the response. I guess that brings me on to subject number two. Other than the posts made in episodes 95 and 101, were there any other accounts of fantasy Warhammer Paol's actions? I think I saw a post where Mr Zoat summarized what Warhammer Paol did in episode 101 before he actually wrote episode 101, and I was wondering if there was anything similar.

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No, as far as I remember that's all I've written about that iteration.

 

[Michael Vonica]

Thank you.

 

[Rafin]

This whole thing's become a bit of a ritual amongst Orange Lanterns

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I'm a sucker for random MC quirks kicking off central traditions and long standing policies.

I'd be really interested to see a bunch of pro-social Orange Lantern grunts interacting outside of the presence of Dox or the Illustress.

 

[Stsword]

Not sure if I'll get any responses to my last post, so I'll just move on to the last thing I'm interested in. What does everyone think is going on with Constantine? I have my own theory, and I could probably get a good view of what everyone thinks from scrolling through the thread, but I'd prefer to ask it here. All I've really heard is that some people think that John Quinn is Golden Boy, and is planning to do something evil, likely involving John Constantine.

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Zoat holds the opinion that Golden Boy was the victim of Constantine being a paranoid asshole and that Golden Boy wasn't responsible for absolutely everything that ever went wrong in Constantine's life.

So even if he is in fact Golden Boy that doesn't mean anything dire.

Zoat has a history of far more sympathetic portrayals of some characters than usual.

His Blackfire isn't a treasonous toxic dumpster fire but just someone with anger issues, Roulette went from a mind controlling kidnapping murderer to someone who just pays people with superpowers to fight on tv, etc.

 

[Michael Vonica]

I don't remember much from the Teen Titans tv series, but how much did Mr Zoat downplay Blackfire's evil there? I know that the parallel Blackfire mentioned in episode 97 was full evil, so he's not overly biased towards the character in general.

From what I could get from the wiki, it seemed to me that, regardless of if Golden Boy was or was not behind all of John's suffering, he was at least trying to kill him or cause him suffering in a few cases. Also, is Golden Boy just a parallel universe John, or was he a parallel universe version of John's unborn twin brother? Whatever he is, he seemed much more powerful than John Quinn is.

 

[Nervaqus987]

I don't remember much from the Teen Titans tv series, but how much did Mr Zoat downplay Blackfire's evil there?

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Well, her intro episode involved her coming to Earth specifically to let Starfire take the fall for her crimes and also take her place on Earth.

Then the next episode with her had her conquer Tamaran with support of an alien fleet and try to "make peace" by wedding Star to some blobby tentacle monster thing.

 

[Michael Vonica]

I looked it up, and it seems that Blackfire also traded Starfire to the Gordanians in order to end the war on Tamaran. Assuming that is all, she is at least somewhat evil, but no more evil than Mr Zoat presents her.

 

[Darko]

I don't remember much from the Teen Titans tv series, but how much did Mr Zoat downplay Blackfire's evil there? I know that the parallel Blackfire mentioned in episode 97 was full evil, so he's not overly biased towards the character in general

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Well, her intro episode involved her coming to Earth specifically to let Starfire take the fall for her crimes and also take her place on Earth.

Then the next episode with her had her conquer Tamaran with support of an alien fleet and try to "make peace" by wedding Star to some blobby tentacle monster thing.

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She also betrayed her people and sold her sister into slavery for petty reasons, just like her pre Flashpoint comic self.

And Teen Titans Blackfire's reasons were even more petty and childish than her pre Flashpoint self.

From what I could get from the wiki, it seemed to me that, regardless of if Golden Boy was or was not behind all of John's suffering, he was at least trying to kill him or cause him suffering in a few cases. Also, is Golden Boy just a parallel universe John, or was he a parallel universe version of John's unborn twin brother? Whatever he is, he seemed much more powerful than John Quinn is.

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He's a parallel version of John's unborn twin, who survived instead of John.

Edit: You beat me to it.

I looked it up, and it seems that Blackfire also traded Starfire to the Gordanians in order to end the war on Tamaran. Assuming that is all, she is at least somewhat evil, but no more evil than Mr Zoat presents her

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Not quite.

She sold her because she was power hungry and bitter, not because she wanted to end the war.

She also played a part in making the war go so bad due to betraying her people beforehand.

Zoat, even though he adds the bad things from the comics or source material, tries to spin it as somehow not being so bad and the actual reasons for the characters doing it as being not quite so evil or petty, when they basically are just evil and petty.

The only version of Komand'r who wasn't a petty bitch is her n52 version.

She did sell her sister, but in that continuity she was shown as not hating Kori, and actually loved her, as well as regretting doing what she does, but viewing it as necessary.

She's basically the most sympathetic version of her.

The other most sympathetic version was a mentally simplistic and physically deformed clone of Kori from an elseworld comic.

 

[Michael Vonica]

She also betrayed her people and sold her sister into slavery for petty reasons, just like her pre Flashpoint comic self.

And Teen Titans Blackfire's reasons were even more petty and childish than her pre Flashpoint self.

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Did she not do it in order to end the war? Not that I see why that could even end the war anyway, just wondering if there was any source proving that she did it for purely petty reasons.

https://teentitans.fandom.com/wiki/Tamaran

I guess the wiki also kind of paints it as her betrayal. But she obviously wants to rule Tamaran, so why betray it to the Gondorians who destroyed it? If her sister was the problem, there were plenty of ways of trying to get rid of her. Was it some kind of political move? Or did the Gordanians give her a magic crystal? Comic book logic.

 

[Darko]

Did she not do it in order to end the war? Not that I see why that could even end the war anyway, just wondering if there was any source proving that she did it for purely petty reasons.

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She just did it for petty reasons.

Spoiler

I guess the wiki also kind of paints it as her betrayal. But she obviously wants to rule Tamaran, so why betray it to the Gondorians who destroyed it?

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She may have been petty enough that she would gladly rule over ashes so long as no one else could.

If her sister was the problem, there were plenty of ways of trying to get rid of her.

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This may have been the option she was presented with at the time and she chose to take it, or she simply thought that it would hurt Kori the most.

Or did the Gordanians give her a magic crystal?

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No, that was that weird bag of slime guy.

 

[Someguy Somewhere]

And...well....if the implications of The NEW Teen Titans are anything to go by with what the ...further results of Blackfire's TT universe life choices...May X'Hal have Mercy on her Soul.

Spoiler: Beware: Chibi's Ahead!

 

[Michael Vonica]

I will admit that according to the comic page shown above, Mr Zoat did end up cleaning Blackfire's background a bit, but the character and situation is portrayed in such a cartoony way that I don't think any real blame can be put on her for Tamaran losing the war. We don't exactly know what the situation was there, but judging from how it usually seems to go, Tamaran probably couldn't have ever beat the Gondorians, and I don't know how much her betrayal would have actually made things worse, nor will that ever be known. Blackfire is fully responsible for sending her sister off to slavery, though.

 

[Darko]

I will admit that according to the comic page shown above, Mr Zoat did end up cleaning Blackfire's background a bit, but the character and situation is portrayed in such a cartoony way that I don't think any real blame can be put on her for Tamaran losing the war. We don't exactly know what the situation was there, but judging from how it usually seems to go, Tamaran probably couldn't have ever beat the Gondorians, and I don't know how much her betrayal would have actually made things worse, nor will that ever be known. Blackfire is fully responsible for sending her sister off to slavery, though.

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I don't think that there was anything mentioned about Tamaran losing the war before she betrayed them, so it's fully possible that they were either winning or in a stalemate.

 

[Stsword]

I will admit that according to the comic page shown above, Mr Zoat did end up cleaning Blackfire's background a bit, but the character and situation is portrayed in such a cartoony way that I don't think any real blame can be put on her for Tamaran losing the war. We don't exactly know what the situation was there, but judging from how it usually seems to go, Tamaran probably couldn't have ever beat the Gondorians, and I don't know how much her betrayal would have actually made things worse, nor will that ever be known. Blackfire is fully responsible for sending her sister off to slavery, though.

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First she tried to murder her little sister.

Then she not only betrayed her world by giving the Citadel Tamaran's complete defense system layout she was one of the soldiers who helped conquer it.

Then she arranged a treaty where her little sister was made a slave and banished from her own planet.

Oh yes she was Starfire's master by the by.

She was the one who degraded and tortured her sister for years and had her raped by multiple people.

When Starfire killed one of her rapists, Blackfire was going to have her executed.

Being kidnapped by Psions literally saved Starfire's life.

That is what Zoat made just a gal with anger issues.

 

[Michael Vonica]

First she tried to murder her little sister.

Then she not only betrayed her world by giving the Citadel Tamaran's complete defense system layout she was one of the soldiers who helped conquer it.

Then she arranged a treaty where her little sister was made a slave and banished from her own planet.

Oh yes she was Starfire's master by the by.

She was the one who degraded and tortured her sister for years and had her raped by multiple people.

When Starfire killed one of her rapists, Blackfire was going to have her executed.

Being kidnapped by Psions literally saved Starfire's life.

That is what Zoat made just a gal with anger issues.

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We were talking about Teen Titans Blackfire. I'm certain that she didn't do the second half of that stuff (everything past the enslavement treaty). Granted, doing the first half still makes her a terrible person, but Mr Zoat's portrayal of her is still accurate, except for the whole betraying Tamaran stuff, which is barely covered in Teen Titans, so Mr Zoat glossing over it isn't too big a deal.

As for the version of her that you are referring to, she is most certainly evil, and when she is brought up in episode 97, Mr Zoat recognizes her as such.

As for the universe 16 version of her, Mr Zoat is free to portray her however he wishes, due to there being no pre existing version to match her against for that universe, although the fact that he chooses to portray her as a victim shows how he feels on the issue. The portrayal he uses also allows the story to flow better, at least in my opinion.

 

[Stsword]

As for the universe 16 version of her, Mr Zoat is free to portray her however he wishes,

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Well duh.

That's up there with other such revelations as "the universe is big" that makes me wonder what psychological compulsion drives people to waste their energy stating the obvious as if this is some shocking revelation to people.

 

[Michael Vonica]

For John Quinn, wasn't it really strange how he had Constantine's dream dust when they were trying to contact Dream the Endless? He claims to have only worked with Constantine once, and from then on they only ever made contact via phone and a single instance of going drinking together, up until Constantine gave him the helmet. Unless Quinn is deciding to stay quiet about something, as he didn't mention it to Paul during episode 110, he shouldn't have had any more contact with Constantine after getting the helmet. So where did he get the dust? It doesn't seem like the sort of thing you just hand out. Granted, Paul did just kind of take Gabriel's wings, so Constantine doesn't seem to be the best when it comes to security.