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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Reader mode
Assblaster5000 said:
In actual DC (or Vertigo I guess since they published the Lucifer comics) canon The Presence basically flat out says that he came from The Dreaming, same as every other Earth deity.
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I don't think this is true.

I know in the comics that he told Lucifer he was made by something even greater but he didn't mention the Dreaming or anything like that.

And given everything else shown in the comic series I'm inclined to believe that he came before the Dreaming was a thing.

If you have the scene showing him telling that he came from the Dreaming then please post it.
 
Darko said:
I don't think this is true.

I know in the comics that he told Lucifer he was made by something even greater but he didn't mention the Dreaming or anything like that.

And given everything else shown in the comic series I'm inclined to believe that he came before the Dreaming was a thing.

If you have the scene showing him telling that he came from the Dreaming then please post it.
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He mentions that he's shaped by belief at some point as well, and taken together those things make it very likely that he's from The Dreaming, same as all the others.

Also pretty sure that the author of at Lucifer has said that he isn't any different to the other Earth gods, just really strong because of all the very popular religions worshiping him.

Sadly I don't have any clue which issues he says any of this in, so I can't really go find any scans of the pages. I know about a video that goes into him, his origins, and his powers that mentions at least some of that, but I'm not sure that would really count for what you're asking.
 
Assblaster5000 said:
In actual DC (or Vertigo I guess since they published the Lucifer comics) canon The Presence basically flat out says that he came from The Dreaming, same as every other Earth deity.

So while Zoat is free to do as he pleases in his fanfic, in actual canon Big P is only as strong as he is because Earth is, as the kids might say, "wiggity wack yo."

Honestly, the guy can't even beat Trigon and he got scared off by Starro, and at le
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The Presence directly created the DC multiverse in its entirety. So you might be mistaking the being for someone else.
 
Ngamer11 said:
Why did she put her hand on the Renegade's head?
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Why did she lay her hand on him?
Also, that should be 'smiles'.
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Thank you, corrected.
Darko said:
'off her'
'savior'
'to wear jackets'
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Thank you, corrected.
I remember that in the n52 he actually hacked a green ring.
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No, not the Green Light of Will. The colour green.
Chojin Patriarch said:
I suppose it's handier than not having it, whatever her body image issues.
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Dohohoho!
Good lord, his childhood must have been amazing, good or bad. With a name like that, you'd feel kind of disappointed if you didn't become some manner of superhero...
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His grandfather was the first black officer in the US military, a rank he achieved by breaking into the Pentagon and pointing out that if he could do that to them then he could probably to it to the Germans just as easily.

His name was Ulysses Hazard.
:confused: And who would that be, again? No, I'm not joking. I honestly don't remember. Did you mean the young man calling himself Arion? Or is it someone else?
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No, her father. Whom she killed in self defence after being repeatedly raped by him.

She held the knife in her left hand, which is why she fixated on that part of her body
 
Vaermina said:
The Presence directly created the DC multiverse in its entirety. So you might be mistaking the being for someone else.
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If we're talking pre-Flashpoint then you might have a leg to stand on there (though I've already pointed out that he is neither a supreme being as some seem to think, nor does he seem to have made any part of the multiverse), but in, ugh, n52 and onwards he's been downgraded into basically a schizophrenic that thinks he did a whole lot while the people that actually made everything get no credit.

So no, I'm not mistaken, I'm stating what I have seen and heard about him and what he has done. Which amounts to nothing more than a stronger than average god that people think can do whatever he wants.
 
Darko said:
Angelic powers have been shown as being harmful to evil things, like demons, and the Omega Effect is basically tyranny given for, so maybe he was hoping it can be hurt by angelic energy.
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Problem is, Angels come from the same God that caused a flood that killed a lot of humanity, so thematically a being who is sometimes a tyrant can't eradicate tyranny.

If it was like Buddha, he could help Grayven to control it.
 
I am not really getting why he wants the Omega Effect removed in the first place.

Like I get it's not nice, but it's not Ani-Life bad, and not much worse than using yellow and orange power rings.
 
Xammmy said:
I am not really getting why he wants the Omega Effect removed in the first place.

Like I get it's not nice, but it's not Ani-Life bad, and not much worse than using yellow and orange power rings.
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It may not be Anti-Life levels of bad but it's still pretty terrible.

In order to use it he may need to feel emotions that he does not want to feel, like dominating others.

Sure he uses fear and avarice but he's been shown as being uncomfortable with having too much control over people.

The Omega Effect may also change him and make him more like Darkseid, which he does not want to become.

If it doesn't change him then it may still harm him.

The guy has a dangerous form of energy in him.

It's not that difficult to imagine why he would want it out.
 
Xammmy said:
I am not really getting why he wants the Omega Effect removed in the first place.

Like I get it's not nice, but it's not Ani-Life bad, and not much worse than using yellow and orange power rings.
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The Omega Force turned a normal looking man with red and black eyes into Darkseid.
 
Assblaster5000 said:
In actual DC (or Vertigo I guess since they published the Lucifer comics) canon The Presence basically flat out says that he came from The Dreaming, same as every other Earth deity.

So while Zoat is free to do as he pleases in his fanfic, in actual canon Big P is only as strong as he is because Earth is, as the kids might say, "wiggity wack yo."

Honestly, the guy can't even beat Trigon and he got scared off by Starro, and at least one of those came from the very multiverse people think he made.
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The Presence's successor made her own universe and then merged with it to become a pantheistic deity. So if that was actually stated then it just makes no sense, becuase either the Presence is a local god or a universal god and it's very clear that the Presence is a universal god in Lucifer.

And in New Earth cosmology which was never the same as Vertigo, which is why the two universes got merged in Flashpoint, it was directly stated by an angel that the Presence was a pantheistic deity. "You thought the Presence would be on its throne in Heaven? The Presence is everywhere, everything, everyone."

And when Mr Miracle visited Heaven he felt the Source. Which since the Presence is pantheistic, the Source=Presence, because the Presence is literally everything.

And when Maggedon was going to destroy the universe the angels were making their plans to make the next universe.

And when the Lords of Order, angels of the Presence, destroyed the universe in Dr Fate, the Presence recreated the entire universe.

So the Presence is also a universal god in New Earth continuity as well.
 
Stsword said:
The Presence's successor made her own universe and then merged with it to become a pantheistic deity. So if that was actually stated then it just makes no sense, becuase either the Presence is a local god or a universal god and it's very clear that the Presence is a universal god in Lucifer.

And in New Earth cosmology which was never the same as Vertigo, which is why the two universes got merged in Flashpoint, it was directly stated by an angel that the Presence was a pantheistic deity. "You thought the Presence would be on its throne in Heaven? The Presence is everywhere, everything, everyone."

And when Mr Miracle visited Heaven he felt the Source. Which since the Presence is pantheistic, the Source=Presence, because the Presence is literally everything.

And when Maggedon was going to destroy the universe the angels were making their plans to make the next universe.

And when the Lords of Order, angels of the Presence, destroyed the universe in Dr Fate, the Presence recreated the entire universe.

So the Presence is also a universal god in New Earth continuity as well.
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Don't forget that when he left in the Lucifer comics the universe went to shit.

Xammmy said:
We are still talking about the guy who thought just injecting himself with Kobra-Venom while on a mission, right?
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There's a big difference between an enhancement serum and something that's responsible for creating a god of tyranny.

Renegade may have finally learned to stop sticking weird things in his body.
 
Tangentially related to the discussion of the Omega Effect, I've always wondered about a certain phrase used to describe Darkseid: I am the Revelation! The Tiger-Force at the core of all things! When you cry out in your dreams — it is Darkseid that you see!"
—Darkseid, The Forever People Vol. 1 #3

Is Tiger-Force some actual phrase or concept, in real life or comics continuity?

I also searched the Alpha Effect online and it says Highfather uses it (which I knew) but also that Mister Miracle does, which I didn't. Not sure if that's a New 52 thing or older, though. Wonder if it'll play a part in things. There's the Astro Force that Orion wields and other things too, and I'm not sure if all of them are 'just' manifestations of Source energy or something else.
 
Mr Zoat said:
The Omega Force turned a normal looking man with red and black eyes into Darkseid.
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Ok, I thought you'd said it was his God Name that did that?
Like how Granny Goodness used to look like a hottie before she Mantled Child Abuse, which took an ugly stick and beat her around the block a few times until she fit the image.
 
Mr Zoat said:
24th January 2006
08:23 GMT -5

Zamaron is busier than I was expecting. Towers in the styles of a dozen species cover the planet, interspersed at apparently random intervals with cultivated areas of greenery. I can even see what appears to be a vertical farm in skyscraper form, a hollow column of greenery covered in flowers and fruit.
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I was reading the story only thread, and found that this part is out of order. It was posted later, but the story only should have it as the last part of Episode 109: The Other Half.
 
Assblaster5000 said:
If we're talking pre-Flashpoint then you might have a leg to stand on there (though I've already pointed out that he is neither a supreme being as some seem to think, nor does he seem to have made any part of the multiverse), but in, ugh, n52 and onwards he's been downgraded into basically a schizophrenic that thinks he did a whole lot while the people that actually made everything get no credit.

So no, I'm not mistaken, I'm stating what I have seen and heard about him and what he has done. Which amounts to nothing more than a stronger than average god that people think can do whatever he wants.
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Nope, you're thinking of the pre-merger Vertigo comics.

The Presence hasn't appeared at all in post merger.
 
A Waltz in Orange and Green (part 8)
  • Threadmarks
    • 10th September 2012
    18:22 GMT

    Lord Malvolio holds his third ring-blank in his left hand as it slowly evaporates.

    "And so it ever is. See you anything awry in my process?"

    I shake my head slowly.

    "No, but I only saw a small part of what you did. You… Your green glow is so bright that it's difficult for me to see what you're doing in any detail."

    I barely remember what the process for forging a ring was in the comics, just… Ganthet scowling and treating the whole thing like forging a ring with metal. I assume that it was a limitation of the medium, but… Kalmin uses equipment to handle it as well. Maybe it's something that can't be handled by a person just with their connection to the relevant colour.

    I could ask Hinon, or one of the other Controllers who've been forging rings for the Corps. Except that the techniques they use might not work for me, and that would implicate them in the whole 'helping Lord Malvolio' thing.

    Would someone from 17th century Manchester actually have been called 'Malvolio'? It's a possibility, Shakespeare's plays would have been in circulation if that's where his mother got it from. Given how he was puzzled by me not wanting to give the other Lanterns' names, it certainly seems plausible.

    If his parents wanted a joker, well… I imagine that they'd be surprised by how he turned out.

    "I suppose… Maybe they shouldn't be created as separate units, but paired with particular lanterns. Do you have a normal sized personal lantern?"

    "Nay. Priest was of the opinion that personal lanterns are a crutch best avoided."

    I blink.

    "What?"

    "He instructed me that they were an unnecessary crutch, much as a man who has lived a life free from sin has no need of indulgences."

    "So… You… Don't need to recharge your ring?"

    "I do not. I see that you are surprised."

    "Surprised that it's possible, and surprised that you got the hang of it back in the seventeenth century."

    "What does the age matter to the nature of a man's soul?"

    "Fair point. I just meant that you wouldn't have had all that much time to get the hang of it before running out of power."

    "Priest reinvigorated my ring when its fires began to ebb. His tutelage is why my domains are an entire Sector and not merely limited to the Earth, and the memory of the time where we worked together is why I refuse to slay him for his later treachery."

    "How long did it take you to learn?"

    "I do not know. We were far from the star of Earth, and the training was too exhausting for me to keep track of the passage of days." He regards me with curiosity. "You mean to say that you have always recharged from your lantern?"

    "Yes. Except for the time I was bonded to the Ophidian, but I assumed… The part of us that was her was handling that."

    "Priest warned me that it might take longer than a normal man's mortal span to learn the required techniques. Even now he questions my mastery."

    "Did he ever make a central power battery?"

    Lord Malvolio actually smiles.

    "Methinks that he would condescend even unto the Guardians for their reliance on such fripperies. No, he did not."

    "Modern Earth has a saying: perfect is the greatest enemy of good enough. One powerful Lantern, however impressive, just won't achieve as much as a dozen who need personal lanterns. I don't think that the Guardians would intentionally cripple their Lanterns, so there must be something else going on."

    "A man may oil and sharpen his sword without caring a whit for its wellbeing."

    "Yes, but it's still sharp and free from rust at the end of that. 'You can recharge without a personal lantern' is just… Too big a deal."

    "I think there is more to the affair on their part, but in truth I do not know them well enough to be sure in my condemnation."

    They did have Guy researching high complexity techniques… But I'm focusing on ring crafting at the moment, and I'd rather get a cooperation agreement in place before asking Guy to talk to the man who punched Jordan through a planet. Guy loves the Green Lantern Corps, and I can't see that conversation going well.

    "Okay, so you've never tried forging a ring using a personal lantern?"

    "Having none, I have not."

    "I'll give it a go then." I float my newly created personal lantern up to me. "Please don't mess me about when I transubstantiate."

    "Continue at your leisure."

    Okay then. I don't step out, but rather hold up the lantern in my left hand and press my right hand against the spout part.

    Rings are a focus of the desires of their users, but… I don't think anyone wants a ring purely to have the ring. I mean, in some places it's a status symbol, but what they want is the status. Others want all sorts of outcomes…

    Are there any ring-shaped desires in here? Preferably marked with the orange sigil? I can search for desires relating to control and creation and shape them, but I've got no more reason to believe that will work than…

    Anything else I could try, so I may as well try it as well, I suppose.

    The Honden is now richly decorated in ring-adjacent desires, and I regularly check them to make sure that no one in my Corps is heading for crazy town.

    Ring-adjacent…

    Do rings have spirits? Are ring AIs spirits? I wasn't joking about thinking that I might end up coming here full time once I die properly, so I suppose…

    Is there anything here that doesn't fit?

    Yes, my Agent.

    Other than you, you beautiful snake you.

    Yes, my Agent. Here.

    Oh. That's…

    Interesting.

    I withdraw my right hand, a ring around my right ring finger.

    "You have managed the feat? How?"

    "I don't think I have." I take a closer look at the ring. Simple design, no additional AI… "This is Larfleeze's ring. It was destroyed when I… Died. Completely disintegrated by qwa-matter. It-."

    Malvolio's head jerks up, and his face twists into a snarl.

    "Your pardon, Lord Illustres, but it seems that I must return home. Some fool has tried to release mine most contentious prisoner."
     
    Last edited:
  • Threadmarks
    • Mr Zoat said:
    I withdraw my right hand, a ring around my right ring finger.

    "You have managed the feat? How?"

    "I don't think I have." I take a closer look at the ring. Simply design, no additional AI… "This is Larfleeze's ring. It was destroyed when I… Died. Completely disintegrated by qwa-matter. It-."
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    Future OL mentioned that he missed Larfleeze's ring. Does this mean that this recreation will be destroyed or given away at a later date?
     
    Bramble Thorn said:
    Ok, I thought you'd said it was his God Name that did that?
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    Bonding with the Omega Force was the event that earned him his God-Name.
    Ngamer11 said:
    I was reading the story only thread, and found that this part is out of order. It was posted later, but the story only should have it as the last part of Episode 109: The Other Half.
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    You're right, but as it doesn't really change anything I think I'll leave it. That would be a pain to fix.
     
    Mr Zoat said:
    I could ask Hinon, or one of the other Controllers who've been forging rings for the Corps. Except that the techniques they use might not work for me, and that would implicate them in the whole 'helping Lord Malvolio' thing.
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    Also they may not want to share their methods since then you may not need them and they want to keep control.

    Mr Zoat said:
    Nay. Priest was of the opinion that personal lanterns are a crutch best avoided."

    I blink.

    "What?"

    "He instructed me that they were an unnecessary crutch, much as a man who have lived a life free from sin has no need of indulgences."

    "So… You… Don't need to recharge your ring?"

    "I do not. I see that you are surprised."
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    I'm guessing this is the whole 'recharge with your own will' thing.

    Mr Zoat said:
    One powerful Lantern however impressive just won't achieve
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    Maybe 'Lantern, however impressive, just'

    Mr Zoat said:
    I don't think that the Guardians would intentionally cripple their Lanterns, so there must be something else going on.
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    Teaching them this may not be practical.

    Malvolio mentioned it may take a long time, so the Guardians could have thought there wasn't enough time.

    Also there may not be that many who could utilize the technique.

    Mr Zoat said:
    Simply design, no additional
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    'Simple'

    Mr Zoat said:
    "Your pardon, Lord Illustres, but it seems that I must return home. Some fool has tried to release mine most contentious prisoner
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    I'm guessing some Lanterns are there for Priest.
     
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