With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

[BR549]

Rankorr is a stupid character and I will never use him.

Click to shrink...

On a scale of 1 to 'retconning Ysmault to Sector 2814', how stupid is he?

 

[Stsword]

you sure it wasn't a golden age thing?

Click to shrink...

It was a golden age thing, and silver age thing, and every other age thing.

Here's a comicvine hal jordan feats page with multiple pages of Hal very obviously altering matter.

Like turning nuclear missiles into snow, himself into a robot, himself into an insect, creating water out of hydrogen and oxygen, water back into human flesh, creating a swarm of animated wooden insects to attack Alan Scott, and transforming energy into confetti streamers.

Kyle made kryptonite to fight Superman, and warned the Justice League that a power ring can split atoms.

Arisia made herself age to adulthood. Three members of the idiot lantern corps altered their flesh to give themselves superhuman strength and durability.

So this rule that power rings can't alter matter? That would pretty much be news to every green lantern writer in the history of time.

 

[Mr Zoat]

On a scale of 1 to 'retconning Ysmault to Sector 2814', how stupid is he?

Click to shrink...

Oh, please. Moving Ysmault is merely daft, not critically stupid. The Empire of Tears was stated to cover three galaxies, so while having Ysmault near the Empire's core would have made sense it wasn't really required.

Rankorr is called Rankorr why? He can create constructs because? His head is on fire why?

Lanterns use empathic weapons. Each type is an opportunity to say something about thier relationship with that Lantern's emotions. If his ring use works in a particular way then there should be a reason for it based on his emotional makeup.

 

[Mquz]

Oh, please. Moving Ysmault is merely daft, not critically stupid. The Empire of Tears was stated to cover three galaxies, so while having Ysmault near the Empire's core would have made sense it wasn't really required.

Rankorr is called Rankorr why? He can create constructs because? His head is on fire why?

Lanterns use empathic weapons. Each type is an opportunity to say something about thier relationship with that Lantern's emotions. It his ring use works in a particular way then there should be a reason for it based on his emotional makeup.

Click to shrink...

Easy - ( joking fan theory, don't take it seriously) -he was being controlled by an alien symbiote (maybe an anger elemental?) disguised as his hair. It basically did nothing and let him live his life beforehand, maybe altering his memories / emotional state. Maybe it fed on his anger or something. His hair is the red lantern, he is not actually considered to be wearing the ring, his hair is, and is simply wearing what amounts to a uniform. His mind is unaltered because his hair's mind is, but it now lacks control over him. His name is actually the name of the parasite, which got confused in his head after it lost control of him.

 

[Sockmonkey]

Going by the rules this story uses, having really good telekinesis would be the ultimate swiss-army-knife of powers.
Aside from moving shit, Martians can use it to phase, and star conquerors can use it for FTL and forcefields.
Effects like heating, cooling, and sound are all motion based effects, so there's no reason some form of TK couldn't do those too.

Kryptonians essentially do a sort of self-TK with their pseudo-gravity power thing, and WOZ is that freeze breath is done by using it to internally stop molecular motion.
Heat vision is said to be actual light-based energy projection, but having it be finely focused pseudo-gravity beams jiggling molecules would be more consistent with how all their other powers work.

So, if you can produce either TK, or the Kryptonian pseudo-gravity thing, you can duplicate a lot of the basic abilities of a power ring. OL has the plans for stuff like the thinking cap and kinetic belt, plus detailed scans of Martian physiology, so in theory he should be able to build such abilities into his power armor.

 

[Gantradies]

Nobody Move, part 21

19th February 2009
21:12 GMT -5

Intellectually, I knew something like this was the most likely result. Still, even... I can't help but stare at the television screen in horrified fascination as the news breaks that Mr Stillwell has decided to break his silence on events behind the total implosion of Voight-American's superhuman development program.

"…seems crystal-clear: his identifying Vought-American Senior Executive Jessica Bradley as being responsible for the breakdown in control…"

And he's decided to drop Ms Bradley in it.

"Why do you keep watching this?"

Charlotte -bless her heart- tightens the arm she's put around my waist, pulling me a little closer. I'm watching events unfold on television in my bedroom as she doesn't want me watching this where the children might see it. But she also doesn't want me watching it on my own, so: here she is.

In my dreams, I still-.

The children are better than they were, but there are things they do not need to be reminded about. We've pretty much had to shut them inside since November, public.. hatred for Vought-American in general and superheroes in particular meant that they risked being shouted at or outright assaulted on the streets. The only reason that reporters stopped camping outside our house is that I -as just about the only superhero who actually manages to fulfil the description of the role- asked them not to. Empty enough children's wards and you.. rather end up in your own category.

I still remember begging John to stop, the blood of the White House staffers he'd killed completely coating his uniform. And I was right. He actually.. wasn't as bad as he thought he was.

Fat lot of good that fact.. did… Anyone.

"We need to know what's happening. Vought-American will send someone to talk to us eventually."

"…Bradley, he said, sadly chose to ignore his advice and pursue…"

"Should we even talk to them?"

"I-. I don't know."

The fact is, Vought-American pay for everything around here. I've got enough money that buying a house large enough for everyone wouldn't be a great strain, and… Well, my own earnings haven't dipped all that much. But actually.. being superheroes, that's not something I'm sure I know how to make work. The children are more confident in their own abilities now, but a good deal of their self-esteem comes from the positive reactions they used to get from people who live in the area. Even excluding the worst of the hostility, that's… Gone.

"No, we.. should. We shouldn't make decisions without hearing all of the options." I tilt my head to the side, briefly resting it against hers. Then I rise to my feet, calling my staff over to me and catching it in my left hand. "But, now I'm.. afraid that I have work to do."

"The hospital said-."

I shake my head. "Not the hospital."

Because 'compassion' doesn't just mean 'being nice to nice people', it doesn't just mean 'for the deserving'. It has to, has to, mean everyone.

I open a portal and step through, into Ms Bradley's hotel room. The television… The remote control is embedded in the screen, and clumps of hair litter the floor in front of it. There's blood, and for a moment I worry that I'm too late. But… No, there isn't enough. She.. literally tore her hair out of her scalp.

"Ms Bradley?"

I hear a quiet despair-filled chuckle as she staggers in from the bathroom. I-. Ah yes, a certain amount of damage has been done to the minibar. She looks… Well, a fright. There's vomit on her chest and on her right sleeve, her usually immaculate hair has been savaged and there are small cuts on her face where she appears to have clawed herself.

"What do you want?" She blinks. "Or did they send you to put me out of their misery? I didn't think they did that-"

I solemnly shake my head. "Nothing like that."

"-to executives, but leave it to James to cover all the bases."

"Would you like me to clean you up? You appear to be in a somewhat distressed state."

"OhFUCKYOU!"

She opens a medicine bottle and swallows-. Ah, yes, I was worried she might do something like that. Swallows more high-strength painkillers than is entirely healthy, especially when combined with the alcohol which she has already consumed.

"I… Sympathise-."

"Oh, of course you do. You can't not!"

"And if you're really set on killing yourself, I won't stop you."

There's a slight.. flinch, but yes, she's decided. Extreme risk-taking at least. There's no gun… What's the best way to-? The Derren Brown approach? Hm, might work. But what angle-?

Ah.

"And then, once you've passed on, I will fuck your corpse."

She jerks, the pill bottle falling from her hand, its contents spilling out across the floor.

"WHAT?"

"Oh, don't worry, I'll clean it up before anyone sees it. In fact, I can fix up everything. You'll leave a beautiful corpse." I pause for effect. "For me to have sex with."

"You came here to rape me?!"

"No, of course not. You can't rape a corpse." I pause again. "In this state. It's a completely different criminal offence."

She stares at me in horror.

"I'm.. really not clear what the problem is. You'll be dead, so you won't actually experience anything. Your legacy won't be tainted further because I'll perform a full cleanup-. Actually, is there anywhere you particularly want your corpse found? I was planning on fucking it in a number of locations anyway, so it's really no extra effort for me to take it somewhere else once I'm spent. Your apartment?"

She's still staring at me in horror.

"Or if you have a preferred mortician or.. undertaker?"

She manages to blink. "Whhhhhhhhrrr-?"

"Or a hospital for organ donation? The alcohol and painkillers might cause some damage, but your heart and lungs are in excellent-."

"Stop! Stop, just fucking-" She holds up her broken-nailed hands in a warding gesture. "-stop." Her shoulders shudder, and she's… Crying. "I-I can't I can't I can't-."

I sigh, stepping forward and wrapping my arms around her. She.. half-heartedly resists for a moment before latching on and pressing her dried-vomit coated face into my chest. "Ms Bradley, I… Don't need to tell you that you are in a great deal of difficulty." Ring, neutralise those painkillers. "But this is survivable. It is quite likely that you will be going to prison. Certainly, you will never work in your preferred field again. But there are still things you can do with your life, things that will be interesting to you and valuable to the community at large. I would suggest making a completely clean breast of things to the Senate committee at the earliest opportunity, and instructing a lawyer who can act in your defence. If Mr Stillwell has fucked you anyway, there's really no reason not to fuck him right back."

Being compassionate doesn't mean that I believe that reasonable and proportionate chastisement is unjust.

"Ultimately, the only one who can decide what you're going to do is you. If you really want to kill yourself, I will not prevent you. But please believe me when I say that where there's life, there's hope."

She appears to be going somewhat limp. I run a wave of indigo light over her, removing the vomit and mending her wounds, before picking her up and laying her on the room's bed. I linger for a moment, leaning over her and smiling kindly.

"And where there's death, there's me fucking your corpse. So… Think about it."

Click to shrink...

OH MY GOD I JUST FELL OFF MY CHAIR LAUGHING IRL


in all seriousness zoat, BEST comedic timing/wording ive seen this year so far XD

Holy mother of KEK, I laughed hard, like, what the fuck dude, there's shock therapy and then there's THIS.

Click to shrink...

blast therapy?

 

[Silveraith]

No, I think it's reasonable to assume that a house on fire has fire in it.

Click to shrink...

Yeah, but not from a purely syllogistic point of view; which is what your first statement was getting at to justify the later response.

The house being on a fire could infer (especially when it is being translated by power ring) that there is no fire in the house but that it will eventually consume the house.

*Shrug*

Ring, as you sure there's no power ring in operation here?

Click to shrink...

Are.

 

[Mr Zoat]

Are.

Click to shrink...

Thank you, corrected.

 

[Maxx Crowley]

They are known as the most versatile tool, not the most powerful weapon.

Click to shrink...

Wrong again Vaermina.

Power rings being the most powerful weapon in the universe is STRAIGHT from DC canon. So it doesn't matter what you say, and in this case as the initial topic was about outside the WTR universe, it doesn't even matter what Zoat says.

Also, all those abilities I listed? Not only can you find them listed on the official DC CANON wiki. I got them straight from an official, printed handbook published by DC.

So, I'm using official information handed down from DC comics themselves. What are you basing your argument on?

 

[Prosecutor-0]

Thank you, corrected.

Click to shrink...

Hmm, pointed it out previously in post #4347, guess you missed it.

 

[Maxx Crowley]

you sure it wasn't a golden age thing?

Click to shrink...

Yes I am, and...well Stsword already answered for me.

Rankorr is a stupid character and I will never use him.

Click to shrink...

He's kinda cute though.

It was a golden age thing, and silver age thing, and every other age thing.

Here's a comicvine hal jordan feats page with multiple pages of Hal very obviously altering matter.

Like turning nuclear missiles into snow, himself into a robot, himself into an insect, creating water out of hydrogen and oxygen, water back into human flesh, creating a swarm of animated wooden insects to attack Alan Scott, and transforming energy into confetti streamers.

Kyle made kryptonite to fight Superman, and warned the Justice League that a power ring can split atoms.

Arisia made herself age to adulthood. Three members of the idiot lantern corps altered their flesh to give themselves superhuman strength and durability.

So this rule that power rings can't alter matter? That would pretty much be news to every green lantern writer in the history of time.

Click to shrink...

Why thank you Stsword. Even if it wasn't your intent, I appreciate the back up, and now I don't have to explain.

 

[Stsword]

Why thank you Stsword. Even if it wasn't your intent, I appreciate the back up, and now I don't have to explain.

Click to shrink...

That seemed like an appropriate moment to butt in from the peanut gallery.

 

[earlyriser]

So thinking about Common Sense Paul, while he seems to be going along some of the Paragon's path there have been a couple of butterflies:
By removing the drugged lipstick from Jade he doesn't attack her and then feel bad afterwards, so no visiting Jade in Prison and redemption arc.
Common Sense Paul was also tutored by Jordan, not Gardner so he may not be making any efforts towards redeeming villians like the Berefords and Abra Kadabra at all.
The exercise happened without problems so no Ophidian, no enhancile Robin or Artemis...
The light might have less information on OL because of this (might have no info if the Taipei meeting didn't happen).
I look forward to how he deals with the upcoming Nabu situation, although common sense tells me he'll just stick the helmet on one of Klarion's helpers .

 

[Citizen]

See? Obviously common sense causes more problems than it solves.

 

[Mr Zoat]

So thinking about Common Sense Paul, while he seems to be going along some of the Paragon's path there have been a couple of butterflies:
By removing the drugged lipstick from Jade he doesn't attack her and then feel bad afterwards, so no visiting Jade in Prison and redemption arc.
Common Sense Paul was also tutored by Jordan, not Gardner so he may not be making any efforts towards redeeming villians like the Berefords and Abra Kadabra at all.
The exercise happened without problems so no Ophidian, no enhancile Robin or Artemis...
The light might have less information on OL because of this (might have no info if the Taipei meeting didn't happen).

Click to shrink...

No XP for non-combat solutions.

I look forward to how he deals with the upcoming Nabu situation, although common sense tells me he'll just stick the helmet on one of Klarion's helpers .

Click to shrink...

Common Sense shot Teekl dead. Klarion vanished from the Earth because he had no time to anchor himself.

 

[Siskulous]

No XP for non-combat solutions.

Click to shrink...

Generally speaking that's a sign of a poorly designed/ran game. You should ALWAYS get XP for overcoming obstacles, whether you do so violently or not.

Common Sense shot Teekl dead. Klarion vanished from the Earth because he had no time to anchor himself.

Click to shrink...

Didn't Grayven kill Teekl also? And he still had to deal with the Nabu situation when Klarion found himself a new anchor.

 

[Mr Zoat]

Didn't Grayven kill Teekl also?

Click to shrink...

He did, but he dicked about first.

And he still had to deal with the Nabu situation when Klarion found himself a new anchor.

Click to shrink...

Common Sense would probably go the coma patient route.

 

[DrThoth]

He did, but he dicked about first.

Click to shrink...

How so? It happened offscreen but from his narration it seemed like Grayven went after it pretty immediately when he got the chance, which would fit his MO.
Klarion vanishing puts the Light in a pretty tough spot in terms of firepower, something that's still important even/especially with being a cadre of planner-type villains. Is Kent Nelson still alive and did Common Sense actually do the coma patient route?
Also I assume he didn't accidentally 'kill' Clayface and thus destroy the League of Shadows to feel better- did he instead just record everything like in Paragon and just hand it over to Batman?
One thing I suppose he'll never do is interact with John Constantine, which sucks for a lot of people, though I'm mainly thinking of Euanthe. A semi-related question I did have was how would the Black Dog/Beast situation have been resolved if either SI hadn't been involved? Playing it out like it seemed to happen in Hellblazer continuity seems like it wouldn't really make sense with canon YJ season 2. Then again Roanoake shows the setting does have implied apocalypses so I suppose it wouldn't be the most implausible scenario (this might also have been addressed in comments when that storyline was going on but I was just reading Story Only then).

 

[Mr Zoat]

How so? It happened offscreen but from his narration it seemed like Grayven went after it pretty immediately when he got the chance, which would fit his MO.
Klarion vanishing puts the Light in a pretty tough spot in terms of firepower, something that's still important even/especially with being a cadre of planner-type villains. Is Kent Nelson still alive and did Common Sense actually do the coma patient route?
Also I assume he didn't accidentally 'kill' Clayface and thus destroy the League of Shadows to feel better- did he instead just record everything like in Paragon and just hand it over to Batman?
One thing I suppose he'll never do is interact with John Constantine, which sucks for a lot of people, though I'm mainly thinking of Euanthe. A semi-related question I did have was how would the Black Dog/Beast situation have been resolved if either SI hadn't been involved? Playing it out like it seemed to happen in Hellblazer continuity seems like it wouldn't really make sense with canon YJ season 2. Then again Roanoake shows the setting does have implied apocalypses so I suppose it wouldn't be the most implausible scenario (this might also have been addressed in comments when that storyline was going on but I was just reading Story Only then).

Click to shrink...

I appreciate your confidence in me, but I really haven't thought about it in that sort of detail.

Grayven stamped on Teekl. Common Sense just shot her with a positron ray. Kent died, but a while later.

Clayface got mostly baked, the small amount of animated clay remaining being easily contained.

 

[SpiritualSlacker]

And he still had to deal with the Nabu situation

Click to shrink...

Btw, that brings me to something I'd like to discuss: was Nelson's treatment of Nabu really okay, ethically speaking? I mean, I'm not trying to say that #Nabudidnothingwrong or anything - Kent Nelson describes him as having grown "more and more demanding", which in my mind rings all kinds of alarm bells, and even if Nabu being forcibly out of commission for several years would be wrong, it still wouldn't justify his actions at Roanoke - but think about it: he was essentially imprisoned, for several decades, by the one person who he could consider his friend and partner (if indeed he ever held these feelings toward anyone), at a time when the world started changing so rapidly that it would indeed be easy to mistake it for falling to Chaos faster than ever before.

Maybe it's because I've recently read Life Ore Death, which portrays him as slightly more sympathetic, but I feel as if Nelson could've handled that a bit more delicately.

 

[Mr Zoat]

Btw, that brings me to something I'd like to discuss: was Nelson's treatment of Nabu really okay, ethically speaking? I mean, I'm not trying to say that #Nabudidnothingwrong or anything - Kent Nelson describes him as having grown "more and more demanding", which in my mind rings all kinds of alarm bells, and even if Nabu being forcibly out of commission for several years would be wrong, it still wouldn't justify his actions at Roanoke - but think about it: he was essentially imprisoned, for several decades, by the one person who he could consider his friend and partner (if indeed he ever held these feelings toward anyone), at a time when the world started changing so rapidly that it would indeed be easy to mistake it for falling to Chaos faster than ever before.

Maybe it's because I've recently read Life Ore Death, which portrays him as slightly more sympathetic, but I feel as if Nelson could've handled that a bit more delicately.

Click to shrink...

Basically, Nabu made himself a helmet. It might be nice for people to wear him sometimes, but no one is under any sort of obligation to help undo something he did to himself. Every time someone puts him on they're doing him a favour. And he kept being a dick about it, and guess what? No one wanted to put him on any more. Friends don't use friends as old coats.

 

[Vaermina]

It was a golden age thing, and silver age thing, and every other age thing.

Here's a comicvine hal jordan feats page with multiple pages of Hal very obviously altering matter.

Like turning nuclear missiles into snow, himself into a robot, himself into an insect, creating water out of hydrogen and oxygen, water back into human flesh, creating a swarm of animated wooden insects to attack Alan Scott, and transforming energy into confetti streamers.

Kyle made kryptonite to fight Superman, and warned the Justice League that a power ring can split atoms.

Arisia made herself age to adulthood. Three members of the idiot lantern corps altered their flesh to give themselves superhuman strength and durability.

So this rule that power rings can't alter matter? That would pretty much be news to every green lantern writer in the history of time.

Click to shrink...

You might want to read the comic pages themselves instead of the description...

The missiles were turned into "snow" by blasting them into ash, he disguised himself as a robot with a construct, he didn't create water just a construct facsimile, the insect was a construct Hal used to talk to plastic man and on and on.

Also Alan Scott was using the Starheart which has different rules because it's magic.

Wrong again Vaermina.

Power rings being the most powerful weapon in the universe is STRAIGHT from DC canon. So it doesn't matter what you say, and in this case as the initial topic was about outside the WTR universe, it doesn't even matter what Zoat says.

Also, all those abilities I listed? Not only can you find them listed on the official DC CANON wiki. I got them straight from an official, printed handbook published by DC.

So, I'm using official information handed down from DC comics themselves. What are you basing your argument on?

Click to shrink...

You know what... Because you're so insistent I am sure you can provide the comic panel where it's actually called that by a guardian.

 

[SpiritualSlacker]

Basically, Nabu made himself a helmet. It might be nice for people to wear him sometimes, but no one is under any sort of obligation to help undo something he did to himself. Every time someone puts him on they're doing him a favour. And he kept being a dick about it, and guess what? No one wanted to put him on any more. Friends don't use friends as old coats.

Click to shrink...

I agree about the "being a dick"-part, and this is feeling more and more as if I'm just playing devil's advocate here, but one could still make the argument that Nabu turning himself into a helmet didn't come from him really wanting to be a helmet, but from a desire to fullfill his duty - protecting the world from the agents of chaos - beyond his death. Something that could be considered a noble sentiment.
But does he deserve any consideration for that?

 

[Mr Zoat]

If the world han't been fine without him for thousands of years, yes. If he actually stopped high-level chaos magicians like Klarion, yes. If there were multiple Klarion-level magicians around and he was desperately needed, maybe. As it is? No.

 

[Vaermina]

If the world han't been fine without him for thousands of years, yes. If he actually stopped high-level chaos magicians like Klarion, yes. If there were multiple Klarion-level magicians around and he was desperately needed, maybe. As it is? No.

Click to shrink...

There normally were multiple Klarion level magicians and other similar magical threats around.

You just wrote them out...

 

[Maxx Crowley]

You know what... Because you're so insistent I am sure you can provide the comic panel where it's actually called that by a guardian.

Click to shrink...

Well, here is Ganthet describing the ring while telling Sinestro's origin.

And here is one of Metron, because it shows up on my post, but is an X upon actually submitting.

 

[Cuchulin]

Basically, Nabu made himself a helmet. It might be nice for people to wear him sometimes, but no one is under any sort of obligation to help undo something he did to himself. Every time someone puts him on they're doing him a favour. And he kept being a dick about it, and guess what? No one wanted to put him on any more. Friends don't use friends as old coats.

Click to shrink...

If the world han't been fine without him for thousands of years, yes. If he actually stopped high-level chaos magicians like Klarion, yes. If there were multiple Klarion-level magicians around and he was desperately needed, maybe. As it is? No.

Click to shrink...

Yeah, Right or wrong Nabu brought being stuck on a shelf on him self and the world survived just fine with out him for thousands of years. I mean MAYBE he could have prevented the Bronze age collapse and the fall of Rome or at least made the two dark ages that followed those events less dark, but still the world kept turning and Western civilization "came back" bigger/better than before eventually.

 

[Vaermina]

Well, here is Ganthet describing the ring while telling Sinestro's origin.

Click to shrink...

You know that pretty much everything in blue on that page was proven false, right?

 

[Ganurath]

A thought occurs.

This guy says that the people who gave him powers said they were Controllers.

It sounds a lot more like the Reach, though. Perhaps they lied about who they were?

 

[Maxx Crowley]

You know that pretty much everything in blue on that page was proven false, right?

Click to shrink...

You know that I knew that, no matter what panel I was able to track down and post, you were going to try and dismiss it because you're some type of raging asshole who insists that they know everything about everything no matter what right?

You asked for a panel, I gave you two. One posted, one linked.

Oh here is another one. Nah...this doesn't count either.

And, I mean, Pretty sure Superman wins this, so you can't believe him either. Superdickery is all.