With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Stsword · Apr 30, 2019

Vaermina said:
You might want to read the comic pages themselves instead of the description...

The missiles were turned into "snow" by blasting them into ash, he disguised himself as a robot with a construct, he didn't create water just a construct facsimile, the insect was a construct Hal used to talk to plastic man and on and on.

Also Alan Scott was using the Starheart which has different rules because it's magic.

And my advice to you is that when you dig yourself into a hole, stop digging.

He turned nuclear missiles into "green snow." Disintegrating metal does not create green snow. So nope.

I didn't refer to him disguise himself as a robot, I referred to him turning himself into a robot. Which is on that page, which you would have noticed. You know, if you had actually bothered to read better.

Unless you think constructs are made out of hydrogen and oxygen, then Hal combining hydrogen and oxygen created water. "I'll have my ring synthesize hydrogen and oxygen." And the water he created was blue, by the by.

And yes, the fact that Alan operated under different rules is the exact reason why Hal made a swarm of animated wooden insects, because Alan couldn't affect wood. Which doesn't change the fact that Hal made an animated swarm of wooden insects to attack Alan.

Unless you somehow horribly botched your reading comprehension roll and assumed that Alan created wooden insects to attack himself, because his ring can't affect wood, because that is very nonsensical.

Itypeslow · Apr 30, 2019

Mr Zoat said:
his mouth is exposed to space so gassing his isn't an option,

I think this should be "gassing him"

LiteraryChangeling69 · Apr 30, 2019

A goddamn shame what happened to you zoat!

Maxx Crowley · Apr 30, 2019

Makes me sad there is no Kyle as a GL in this. I've always liked Kyle, especially after what he did to one of the guys who beat Terry Berg.

....I really hope Terry ends up being alright in this universe.

Mr Zoat · Apr 30, 2019

24th January
03:29 GMT -8

"Hmm."

Hinon regards a construct-image of my opponent. Who hasn't arrived yet. He was heading this way. but whatever his faster than light speed is it isn't as fast as I can move. It's the middle of the night here in Coast City, and the orange light illuminates Ferris Air's airfield. Not really sure why she was here, but I'd guess that it was something to do with Ms Ferris herself.

"Was this.. something you were planning on telling me about..?"

She look up from her contemplations. "Oh, don't look at me. I'm an expert in glow manipulation technology. I didn't do this."

"So you didn't know that-."

"I thought that you understood, but let me make it very clear. I am a member of species of multi-millennial omni-disciplinary geniuses. I know what all of the Controllers working under me with the Orange Lantern Corps are doing for part of their time. But I don't know what they're doing all of the time. And I don't know what the rest are doing at all."

"He specifically said 'Controller'."

"Even if-."

"What did you do with the Martian I sent you?"

"If you remember, I was in a coma."

"Didn't you ask? I thought you were the Controller in charge of me-related shenanigans."

"Didn't you ask?" She dismisses her construct. "If it bothers you so much-."

"I thought they'd just turn them into a modern martian. Or keep them in containment. Isn't there some sort of.. policy about letting other Controllers know when you're operating in their area?"

"Quite the opposite, actually. We usually don't get involved in one another's projects at all."

"Do you have a rule about not doing things liable to antagonise the Guardians? Because I'm fairly sure that hunting down and killing people is the sort of thing they're against."

"That.. varies, actually. If there was a warrant issued by a local stellar power, he could legitimately pursue it. There isn't any sort of collective licensing requirement in this region."

"So… We -as an organisation- don't actually-?"

"We are not an organisation. We Controllers are a collaboration. And until I know which of us it was-" A plume of fire appears in the air above us as he heads towards us. "-who worked on this fellow I can't really comment on their motivations."

Just in case he doesn't know where we are, I create a large orange pointer in the air above us. I rather got the impression from Lantern Jordan that the local authorities have developed pretty good policies for handling weird stuff happening. They've sort of had to. This shouldn't warrant a panic, though it would be polite-.

Ring, explanatory message to the local police chief.

Message sent.

The… No. I'm sure that someone considered this to be a strikingly memorable design, but this is a comic character of whom I have zero recollection. I can't blurt out either a personal name or code name I shouldn't know because I genuinely don't.

"Hey." He glances my way and then focuses his attention on Hinon. "Do I salute you or whatever?"

"You don't have to, but I won't stop you if you choose to." He raises his right hand to somewhere near his forehead and waves it. "I suppose that will do. Now, young man, who are you?"

"Effigy."

"I suppose it has the virtue of being short. And what were you doing?"

"Hunting pirates. The Controller who made me thought it would be a good way to field-test…" He clenches his right fist, and a gauntlet apparently made of fire covers it. "This."

"The Controller in question. Male? Female? Other? Did they give a name?

"He said you didn't really use names." His mask-face looks puzzled. "You.. have names?"

"Yes, yes we do. I am Hinon Hee Hannanan, and the whole 'no names' thing is an idiotic affectation which some of my juniors have adopted. Did he give you some way to contact him?"

"No, he just said that he'd check up on me in a couple of weeks."

"Tiresome. Give me a moment while I try and find out which of us it was."

He shrugs as orange lights speckle the air around her.

"Can you turn back?"

"What?"

"Can you turn back. I mean-" I wave my right hand in front of my face. "-are you.. stuck looking like that, or can you turn it off?" He stares at me. "You do know that your face-?"

"You think I want to turn this off?"

"It might make social interaction a little awkward."

"Nah, fuck it. I'm owning this. Being me wasn't so great anyway."

"You sure? I'm guessing that the mask follows the original contours of your face. I don't mind making you a holographic disguise."

"You shot me."

"We clearly had conflicting orders-"

"As if we ever gave you orders."

"-and while I'm not convinced what you were doing was the best way to go about it, there's a difference between that and 'some guy randomly attacking shipping', which is what I initially thought you were doing."

He smirks. "You going to apologize properly, then?"

"If you can show me details of the investigation you conducted and the evidence you gathered, I'll consider it."

"That ship was registered as being taken by pirates with the Zakkaria ship registry."

"Which doesn't prove that the current owners had anything to do with that."

"So they trade with pirates." He shrugs. "That's how they make money-."

"There are plenty of ways to make a transaction appear legitimate which don't involve them saying 'yes, you're totally not pirates, wink wink'. And in any case, the Zakkaria ship registry isn't completely reliable. Quite aside from ships having a standard design and it being perfectly possible to change names and transponders, there are dozens of occasions when ships have been registered as 'taken by pirates' for insurance reasons or.. by people trying to get their rivals in legal trouble."

"So why didn't they say any of that?"

"Have you looked in a mirror recently? You don't exactly project the image of an officer of the law."

He looks himself over. "What? How is my costume different to what other superheroes wear?"

"Aliens don't really have super-."

"Aah."

We both turn to Hinon as a construct image of another Controller appears beside her.

Mr Zoat · Apr 30, 2019

Itypeslow said:
I think this should be "gassing him"

Thank you, corrected.

Maxx Crowley · Apr 30, 2019

Ah, Effigy.

As I recall, he was supposed to be Kyle's "Sinestro", but his creator didn't want just "another guy with a yellow ring."

Then came Nero....so yeah. Tough luck apparently.

Vaermina · Apr 30, 2019

Stsword said:
And my advice to you is that when you dig yourself into a hole, stop digging.

Yes... You probably should stop digging...

He turned nuclear missiles into "green snow." Disintegrating metal does not create green snow. So nope.

Snow isn't green period... Which means it's either construct snow or comic book radioactive material.

I didn't refer to him disguise himself as a robot, I referred to him turning himself into a robot. Which is on that page, which you would have noticed. You know, if you had actually bothered to read better.

You literally see him inside projecting the robot as a construct...

Unless you think constructs are made out of hydrogen and oxygen, then Hal combining hydrogen and oxygen created water. "I'll have my ring synthesize hydrogen and oxygen." And the water he created was blue, by the by.

They directly state, in the panel, that it's a facsimile... And no... It was green... That's the color that was used for "ring power" in that particular run.

And yes, the fact that Alan operated under different rules is the exact reason why Hal made a swarm of animated wooden insects, because Alan couldn't affect wood. Which doesn't change the fact that Hal made an animated swarm of wooden insects to attack Alan.

Unless you somehow horribly botched your reading comprehension roll and assumed that Alan created wooden insects to attack himself, because his ring can't affect wood, because that is very nonsensical.

Remember that part about not relying on the descriptions?

Because yea, you just tried to rely on the description.

See, that wasn't Hal's ring.

This is from the next page over, note Hal's position and note the lack of green going from his ring to the giant wooden insect. What it actually was, was a natural creature of the craphole planet that Hal annoyed into attack them to get back at Alan for taking them to said craphole planet.

Chaoswind · Apr 30, 2019

Nerds arguing about contradictory DC comics, please tell me you people aren't taking this seriously.

If comic writers/artist could handle the IP, we wouldn't have as many retcons and contradictory shit as we do.

Vaermina · Apr 30, 2019

Mr Zoat said:
24th January
03:29 GMT -8

Gonna be honest, he seems a lot more stable then orange ring users.

So truthfully I would consider this project a success so far as constructing weapon systems is concerned.

Chojin Patriarch · Apr 30, 2019

Mr Zoat said:
"Didn't you ask? I thought you were the Controller in charge of me-related shenanigans."

Shenanigans, he says. Accurate, if.. insufficient, sometime.

"Quite the opposite, actually. We usually don't get involved in one another's projects at all."

A whole race of demigod Sparks, with no oversight... I'm reminded of the dwarves from Oglaf...

Ring, explanatory message to the local police chief.

Sensible.

"Tiresome. Give me a moment while I try and find out which of us it was."

I can just feel the 'I'm too old for this shit' rolling off her here... Surprised she isn't rubbing her temple or the bridge of her nose...

"Nah, fuck it. I'm owning this. Being me wasn't so great anyway."

ugh, This guy ticks me off...

"As if we ever gave you orders."

Best Granny snark.

He smirks. "You going to apologise properly, then?"

Should be 'apologize' if he's using american english?

"That ship was registered as being taken by pirates with the Zakkaria ship registry."

Wow, he actually bothered to do research? Did not seem the type.

We both turn to Hinon as a construct image of another Controller appears beside her.

Time to watch Best Granny tear a new hole in this idiot. Prepare the popcorn or Maltesers (as you prefer!)

Vaermina said:
Gonna be honest, he seems a lot more stable then orange ring users.

So truthfully I would consider this project a success so far as constructing weapon systems is concerned.

Until we see the down side. I predict massively shortened lifespan, super-powered evil side, megalomania, or any combination of the three.

Mquz · Apr 30, 2019

You know... this lack of strictly structured organization explains why the OLC were given freedom to do almost anything

Mr Zoat · Apr 30, 2019

Chojin Patriarch said:
He smirks. "You going to apologise properly, then?"
Should be 'apologize' if he's using american english?

Thank you, corrected.

Stsword · Apr 30, 2019

Vaermina said:
Yes... You probably should stop digging...

Snow isn't green period... Which means it's either construct snow or comic book radioactive material.

You literally see him inside projecting the robot as a construct...

Exactly what part of "I wasn't talking about that incident" was beyond your comprehension of the English language?

Are you going to strike out, or is the third time a charm?

As for the wooden insects, did you fail to read the next page after the one you just provided, or did you just fail to understand the dialogue?

You see, "That's a very familiar energy signature, Hal. Can't wait to hear your explanation" was an accusation that Hal made the wooden insects based on Alan's ring noticing the green lantern energy on the wooden insects.

Which makes "Turnabout's fair play, Old Man," a confession on Hal's part.

It seems the people who wrote the synopsis of that issue on dc database and the person who wrote the review of the issue on comicvine understood the comic, they paid attention to the dialogue like I did.

And yes, snow isn't green, congratulations.

Which means the material was dyed green by the green lantern power ring. If it was dyed green, then the ring manipulated it's material structure.

Even if I was wrong on that case, it would mean absolutely nothing, because there were in fact so many examples of Hal manipulating matter on that Hal Jordan feats page that I didn't bother to list them all.

And I should stop digging? Exactly what part of you being consistently wrong do you think should be causing me embarrassment, again?

Bigking321 · Apr 30, 2019

Vaermina said:
Gonna be honest, he seems a lot more stable then orange ring users.

So truthfully I would consider this project a success so far as constructing weapon systems is concerned.

Er... as I recall from comics I read a LONG time ago it didn't take long for him to go crazy pyro on the evil villain track.

Sad Machine · Apr 30, 2019

Mr Zoat said:
Thank you, corrected.

Hmm with the idiots arguing about powerlevels above I just wanna ask your take on it. How powerful are rings in your story man.

DrThoth · Apr 30, 2019

Using a Burning Martian as a basis for altering your neurology sounds like a very bad idea, and probably not conducive to long-term stability, which might not be an actual concern of the Controller(s) who did this, since this could be a variation of the suicide bomber tactic that Paragon brought up as something he didn't want Orange Lanterns to be. I hope it's something along the lines of this guy being expendable, because otherwise choosing him, with the temperament he's demonstrated so far, is even more idiotic than it already is.
I also find it amusing and a little irritating that OL has more knowledge about the Zakkaria ship registry than the inner workings and society of the species/faction that's almost the entire foundation of his Lantern Corps.
Getting a multitude of quasi-immortal hyper-intelligent beings to be more organized won't be easy, but that hasn't stopped him before.

Stsword · Apr 30, 2019

DrThoth said:
Using a Burning Martian as a basis for altering your neurology sounds like a very bad idea, and probably not conducive to long-term stability, which might not be an actual concern of the Controller(s) who did this, since this could be a variation of the suicide bomber tactic that Paragon brought up as something he didn't want Orange Lanterns to be. I hope it's something along the lines of this guy being expendable, because otherwise choosing him, with the temperament he's demonstrated so far, is even more idiotic than it already is.
I also find it amusing and a little irritating that OL has more knowledge about the Zakkaria ship registry than the inner workings and society of the species/faction that's almost the entire foundation of his Lantern Corps.
Getting a multitude of quasi-immortal hyper-intelligent beings to be more organized won't be easy, but that hasn't stopped him before.

In the comics, at least, "long term stability" wasn't an issue because the Controllers planned on making mindless slaves out of the entire Effigy Corps.

Which may or may not apply here, of course.

DrThoth · Apr 30, 2019

Stsword said:
In the comics, at least, "long term stability" wasn't an issue because the Controllers planned on making mindless slaves out of the entire Effigy Corps.

Which may or may not apply here, of course.

If they still plan on doing that while being to any degree aware of the Orange Illustres' psychology and personal philosophy and ethics, I'll be very disappointed. Mr Zoat does a good job of avoiding the trope of moronic advanced aliens after all. The Controllers in charge of the Effigy project might be typically arrogant precursors, but a potential threat having access to the Ophidian itself should give even them a sense of caution.
I forgot to mention that this was the race who created Sun-Eaters after all, though, so...

Mr Zoat · Apr 30, 2019

Sad Machine said:
Hmm with the idiots arguing about powerlevels above I just wanna ask your take on it. How powerful are rings in your story man.

In theory, they could be used to do anything in the comics. In prctice, the power and skill required are prohibitive. None of the Earth Green Lanterns could turn themselves into robots, for example, though Lantern Stel could repair himself easily enough.

DrThoth said:
I also find it amusing and a little irritating that OL has more knowledge about the Zakkaria ship registry than the inner workings and society of the species/faction that's almost the entire foundation of his Lantern Corps.

Data on 2814 was on John's ring when he stole it.

Mquz · Apr 30, 2019

Mr Zoat said:
In theory, they could be used to do anything in the comics. In prctice, the power and skill required are prohibitive. None of the Earth Green Lanterns could turn themselves into robots, for example, though Lantern Stel could repair himself easily enough.

Data on 2814 was on John's ring when he stole it.

So then, would an Orange ring let you turn yourself into a robot in this? Since skill-based things are easier.

I'm not sure if this is what OL did back during the "Paul is dead" episode.

Buggy123 · Apr 30, 2019

Mquz said:
So then, would an Orange ring let you turn yourself into a robot in this? Since skill-based things are easier.

He did that, actually. A couple chapters back, during the arc where heaven attacked earth, OL was inflicted with a sort-of-curse that prevented his body from using external oxygen. He couldn't find any workaround, so he instead he converted himself into a cyborg, leaving only his brain organic, in order to make his remaining oxygen last as long as possible.

He'd have gone full robot, but the ring couldn't guarantee that he'd have continuity of consciousness during the process. And that's sorta important when the tool responsible for the transformation is consciously controlled.

DrThoth · Apr 30, 2019

Mr Zoat said:
Data on 2814 was on John's ring when he stole it.

Thanks for the explanation, I didn't really wonder about the source or mechanism he used to gain his knowledge. I think my point though was he seems to have made little attempt to actually understanding Controller and Malthusian society besides his existent meta-knowledge, unless he already knew everything Hinon said in the latest post and just didn't consider its implications or something. They've certainly discussed specifics before, such as Maltusians valuing influence and not being creative, so him being greatly surprised at Effigy seems a little incongruous.
Does Paragon's lack of knowledge about Effigy mean that you only found out about him after beginning the story?

Belenus · Apr 30, 2019

Chojin Patriarch said:
Nah, fuck it. I'm owning this. Being me wasn't so great anyway."
ugh, This guy ticks me off...

I dunno man, he seems fun.

Mr Zoat · Apr 30, 2019

DrThoth said:
Does Paragon's lack of knowledge about Effigy mean that you only found out about him after beginning the story?

Yes.

Ngamer11 · Apr 30, 2019

What are the odds of either Paul or Grayven asking Effigy to join the OLC?

Stsword · Apr 30, 2019

Ngamer11 said:
What are the odds of either Paul or Grayven asking Effigy to join the OLC?

It's certainly possible he could be redeemed.

He always struck me more of the Tuppence school of "my issue is being stupid, not really being card carrying evil with a capital E."

As for being a member of the OLC, he can already make constructs out of solid fire. Heck, Effigy even made himself some imaginary friends I understand, although I didn't read that appearance. Looking it up, they were "Torch, Blaze and Ember," although from what DC Database says that was more about them being a manifestation of his psychotic break than something he did on purpose.

So making him an OLC would be rather redundant.

Presuming whatever side effects could be dealt with, a better use for Effigy would be to form an Effigy corps. How many Darkstars aren't suitable for the OLC? How many people have a grudge against the Reach but aren't a good fit for the OLC? Even if those who can't handle the theoretical side effects would need to be screened out, that leaves another recruiting pool.

Mr Zoat said:
Yes.

So when I suggested way back then that the Controllers would take Burny the Burning Martian and brainwash him into being an Effigy Corps member that was the first you heard of Effigy?

Blink, blink.

Honestly, Zoat, as impressive as your DC trivia score is, it surprises me whenever you don't know a reference I make. The links and the explanations are for my fellow readers.

Coda · Apr 30, 2019

Mr Zoat said:
total implosion of Voight-American's superhuman development program

Vought-American's

Mr Zoat said:
Bernard's Star

Barnard's

Mr Zoat said:
a metahuman who's powers

whose

Mr Zoat said:
this fire is made of philosophy

See, this is why I like Xor. He's smart. Not "super-scientist intellect" like the Sivanas, but a more significant, more important type of smart. Even though he failed this particular thought experiment he demonstrated wit, insight, and wisdom. The world needs more characters like Xor.

Stsword said:
Disintegrating metal does not create green snow

On the contrary! Both iron and nickel, which is commonly alloyed with iron in many types of steel, can disintegrate into flaky green corrosion when attacked by chloride anions. Copper can do this, too, although you don't usually put much copper in structural steels.

Mr Zoat · Apr 30, 2019

Coda said:
Vought-American's
Barnard's
whose

Thank you, corrected.

Vaermina · May 1, 2019

Stsword said:
Exactly what part of "I wasn't talking about that incident" was beyond your comprehension of the English language?

Are you going to strike out, or is the third time a charm?

It's nice that you finally decided to show what you were talking about.

That said I am guessing you never actually read the comic that's from. Since if you had you would have known better then to try and use that particular run for evidence of anything. You see, that's from the run where Power Rings were magic that could do anything, except when they couldn't, even though sometime they could do it anyways even though two pages ago they explained that they couldn't.

As for the wooden insects, did you fail to read the next page after the one you just provided, or did you just fail to understand the dialogue?

You see, "That's a very familiar energy signature, Hal. Can't wait to hear your explanation" was an accusation that Hal made the wooden insects based on Alan's ring noticing the green lantern energy on the wooden insects.

Which makes "Turnabout's fair play, Old Man," a confession on Hal's part.

It seems the people who wrote the synopsis of that issue on dc database and the person who wrote the review of the issue on comicvine understood the comic, they paid attention to the dialogue like I did.

I should feel bad about leading you into a trap like this... But your continued attempts at interspersing personal attacks in your comments brought it on to yourself.

You see, you're trying to define something, ie the words "energy signature", into something that's not actually defined beyond said words in the comic. And doing so based on the testimony of some guy on an internet forum.

So I will reiterate, don't rely on people's descriptions and instead read the comics yourself.

And yes, snow isn't green, congratulations.

Which means the material was dyed green by the green lantern power ring. If it was dyed green, then the ring manipulated it's material structure.

Even if I was wrong on that case, it would mean absolutely nothing, because there were in fact so many examples of Hal manipulating matter on that Hal Jordan feats page that I didn't bother to list them all.

And I should stop digging? Exactly what part of you being consistently wrong do you think should be causing me embarrassment, again?

*points at Coda's comment and laughs*

With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

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