With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Mr Zoat · Dec 2, 2021

NightmareWarden said:
I guess you, the author, would have to really know the setting to write something like Luminosity (rationalist-Bella fanfic). The fact that Paul's memory is generally wiped of a setting before popping in would probably add a few wrinkles too.

It really wouldn't.

Question. Has anyone read a Lantern fic with a Violet lantern who recharged their ring or their portable lantern via a love-crystal-petrified person? It seems like a logical writing tool to manage one's available charge. Certainly more interesting for the audience than the way Blue lanterns recharge.

Not that I remember.

Lokpik said:
So im curious, when thE pauls met up did he trade data with the warhammer version of himself, because if he managed to get some genetic data from one of the primarch pods it might be interesting to see if he could introduce the techniques to the genomorphs

Neither Warhammer not Warhammer 40,000 SI have been anywhere near a Primarch Pod. The fragments of those pods that survive are ultra sacred Chapter relics, shielded and warded with the greatest defences the Chapter can muster.

Darko · Dec 2, 2021

Assblaster5000 said:
Mr Zoat is not using the hyper-nerfed Kryptonians of YJ canon.

No no, his Kryptonians can move planetoids.

Well, they can help move them at any rate

I don't think this is the case here.

Zoat is using the nerfed versions of Kryptonians.

If you could provide a quote or example of them moving planetoids.

Assblaster5000 · Dec 2, 2021

Darko said:
I don't think this is the case here.

Zoat is using the nerfed versions of Kryptonians.

If you could provide a quote or example of them moving planetoids.

I don't remember the chapter name, but Kara, Kon, and Kal helped Paragon move... one of Krypton's moons I think it was? He provided FTL, they pushed it.

Sadly that's about all I remember about it. The chapter itself was probably from over a year ago if I has to guess though.

Edit:I really want to say that this was in the same episode as them meeting an Eradicator, maybe on or two after, but I never payed attention to episode titles back then, so I'm still stumped on when this was.

Bud-E · Dec 2, 2021

NightmareWarden said:
The fact that Paul's memory is generally wiped of a setting before popping in would probably add a few wrinkles too.

Has the memory wipe and the name thing ever been explained in the story? I know the plot reasons why Paul doesn't remember the universe he's in but why can't he speak his name?

Assblaster5000 · Dec 2, 2021

Bud-E said:
Has the memory wipe and the name thing ever been explained in the story? I know the plot reasons why Paul doesn't remember the universe he's in but why can't he speak his name?

I don't think so? We got an explanation for his hang up about calling his first ring his, but I can't remember anything about why his memories are selectively deleted or the name thing. I feel like I vaguely remember Hinon and him talking about it at some point, but I am both tired and not exactly on the ball with my memory today, so honestly no clue if I'm just making that up.

hkim · Dec 2, 2021

Assblaster5000 said:
I don't remember the chapter name, but Kara, Kon, and Kal helped Paragon move... one of Krypton's moons I think it was? He provided FTL, they pushed it.

Sadly that's about all I remember about it. The chapter itself was probably from over a year ago if I has to guess though.

Edit:I really want to say that this was in the same episode as them meeting an Eradicator, maybe on or two after, but I never payed attention to episode titles back then, so I'm still stumped on when this was.

I am reasonably certain that didn't happen here.

Doccer · Dec 2, 2021

BlackCoat13 said:
OTP is 'one true pairing' which I assume means that the robot is shipping whatever the fuck 'Tlaloc' is with Diana. Or possibly the entire tribe Diana is a part of.

Ok. Can somebody tell me what Tlaloc is please?

Assblaster5000 · Dec 2, 2021

Mr Zoat said:
Even the Enclave knew that occupying all of China would be impossible. As such, they turned to robotics and arteficial intelligence. Tlaloc is the prototype of a region policing governance AI that they build in central Mexico, where he's been active since just before the bombs fell. Due to sabotage, he decided that his highest duty was to serve and protect the people of Mexico rather than the US government, and has done a reasonable job ever since. He was decaying due to lack of maintenance, but Krono arranged for that to get fixed and he's now much healthier.

Doccer said:
Ok. Can somebody tell me what Tlaloc is please?

See above.

Ardy · Dec 3, 2021

hkim said:
I am reasonably certain that didn't happen here.

it was just after Paul got back to Earth the first time and they were dragging the planetoid with the kryptonian AI in it into the solar system. Paul wanted it as a base for the team but was shot down.

Assblaster5000 · Dec 3, 2021

Ardy said:
it was just after Paul got back to Earth the first time and they were dragging the planetoid with the kryptonian AI in it into the solar system. Paul wanted it as a base for the team but was shot down.

To be more specific, it's "Alienated" parts 10 to 11 that feature them doing this.

Thanks a bunch for helping to point me in the right direction by the way, I'd resorted to just using Ctrl+F on every page of the story only thread after Paragon first went to space to try and find it.

Edit:No clue if this is going to work how I want it to, but here's a link to at least the relevant page. You can just Ctrl+F the word "Push" to get to the right part, it'll be the first hit you get that puts you in the right place.

Vaermina · Dec 3, 2021

I sense much retconning in Zoat's future with the newest Young Justice.

Zig · Dec 3, 2021

Vaermina said:
I sense much retconning in Zoat's future with the newest Young Justice.

He didn't retcon anything about the New Gods after last season, don't think he cares.

Old Knife · Dec 3, 2021

Zig said:
He didn't retcon anything about the New Gods after last season, don't think he cares.

What happened? I forgot.

Mr Zoat · Dec 3, 2021

16th September 2012
19:16 GMT

"Hey Suuuuuuu…" Mr. Queen takes a better look at Overman's uniform. "You're not Supes."

Overman's expression doesn't display any nervousness he might be feeling. "English is not my first language. 'Soups' is my counterpart?"

Mr. Queen takes in the lightning bolt variant of the 'S' of House El on his chest, then stares at me in disbelief. "You wanna explain-."

"You are the Green Arrow."

"And you're Supernazi."

Overman's mouth widens involuntarily into a surprised smile, then he flicks his eyes up to the ceiling. "An entire world of Freemans."

"Free men. And yeah, it is."

Overman raises his right hand. "No, you misunderstand me. In my heart I disavowed national socialism decades ago. The people of much of my Earth have freedoms similar to what you are used to-."

"Your Jews are free, are they?"

"All of our Jews are dead, Green Arrow. And unless you have walked into a still-functioning murder factory yourself, as I have, please do not imply that you understand the horror of it. I am here to-."

"Recognized, Superman, zero one."

Overman looks curiously at the zeta tube. "That is not Kryptonian technology."

"Great, Supes can deal with this." Shaking his head, Mr. Queen heads towards the elevator, a path that takes him closer to me. "Paul, I'm gunna get a breath of fresh air."

I look out of the window at the Watchtower's internal forest. "Of course. But do I need to point out the fact that Overgirl-?"

"Yeah, don't assume I'm overjoyed about that either, but she wasn't born 'til it was over. That's a big distinction."

He looks back as Kal-El and Kal-El study each other. Then he shakes his head and completes his journey to the lift.

Superman offers Overman his right hand. "Welcome to Earth 16."

"Thank you." He takes it, watching his counterpart's eyes and they cautiously shake. Superman knows from his Torquasm lessons that Overman is a good deal stronger than him when he exerts himself. "I wish it were under better circumstances. Being invaded by demons is not a pleasant experience."

"I.. hope we can work together to solve that problem for both our worlds."

"I do as well. But I have met enough alternate versions of myself that I doubt that is the first question that comes to your mind."

Superman exhales. "Of course not. I am wondering what would have happened if my pod had landed somewhere else."

"You were a Kansas?"

"What makes you ask that?"

"Most of us are, whatever era they came to Earth in. When a thing happens often enough it is not hard to find one who has not kept it a secret. I met a Russian communist version of us once, and only avoided violence by pointing out the futility of us fighting one another."

"Guess I've got something else to be grateful to my parents for."

"You.. refer to your foster parents?"

"Yes. I.. almost hate to ask, but-."

Overman looks away awkwardly for a moment. "They always ask if it was Hitler. It wasn't Hitler."

"Well, who was it?"

"I did not have one." He shakes his head. "Hitler could not make up his mind. One week I was under the care of Artur Axmann, then next my father was Ulbrecht Kant. You would know him as the first Ubermensch."

"I think Diana.. may have mentioned him once or twice."

"His sister Helga was the closest I had to a stable mother figure. I found out later that it was deliberate; they did not want their 'Man of Tomorrow' to feel personal loyalty to any one person. Other than the Fuhrer, but it was clear to all but the most ideologically blind that he could not raise a child."

"Well, you… Seem to have gotten over the whole thing."

He closes his eyes, and for a moment I see-. Oh, goodness, it's not just the Nazi thing. He wants out of his life.

"No. But perhaps we should return to business. What progress have your magicians made with tracing the origin?"

Superman rises a little way into the air. "We can go and ask Doctor Mist. Orange Lantern's message said that you'd been working on the problem for a while. Why-?"

Overman follows him, and they fly in the direction of Dr. Mist's workshop. "After the Thulists were purged, there was little official tolerance for magicians. Atlantis cooperates with the surface world only as much as they must."

Superman frowns. "Surely if you're being invaded by demons-."

Angelika puts her right hand on my shoulder as I move to follow them, so I stop and look at her.

"Could you..? Make a shield?"

I nod, creating a bubble that should prevent even an augmented kryptonian from hearing us inside it. In addition to an extra-thick shield I add an excited plasma layer that should confuse any exotic elements to his hearing.

"Done."

"How bad is he?"

"Pretty darn bad. I'm honestly not sure that he wouldn't opt to stay here if we asked."

"What about Lena?"

"Who?"

She blinks. "I haven't mentioned her? Lena Kant?"

"Not that I remember. We haven't.. actually spent all that much time talking about your home life. Outside of the obvious."

"She is his wife."

Ah…

I shrug awkwardly. "I didn't…" I look in his direction. "If you.. had to characterise their relationship-."

"He wants to divorce her, doesn't he?"

"He wants to not be associated with her, but there's another desire to live up to certain parts of national socialist ideology relating to family structures."

Angelika shakes her head. "She would be disgraced if Karl ended the marriage. I told you that childless women-."

"Are disrespected. And Karl can't have children with a human woman." I think for a moment. "She hates you, doesn't she?"

"She hates a great many people. I think that she fell in love with Karl's propaganda image, and hates that he has failed to live up to her expectations. Or perhaps she was always a bitch; I only met her long after the romance had died."

"I.. think that's going to have to be a problem for another day." I drop the shield. "Let's go and see what Doctor Mist has learned."

Idkusername · Dec 3, 2021

I'm liking how unabashedly ugly people's personal lives can be in this world. I know the story has touched on this before, but I felt like pointing it out here for some reason.

I especially like how the story still manages to hold on to its levity and adventurous tone despite it.

Darko · Dec 3, 2021

Mr Zoat said:
Overman's mouth widens involuntarily into a surprised smile, then he flicks his eyes up to the ceiling. "An entire world of Freemans."

That's not something to smile about!

Mr Zoat said:
The people of much of my Earth have freedoms similar to what you are used to-."

Well unless they're gay, have an ancestry that isn't considered okay or are too vocal in their opposition to the government.

Mr Zoat said:
I wondering what would have happened if my pod had landed somewhere else."

'I'm wondering'

Mr Zoat said:
You were a Kansas?"

'from Kansas'

Mr Zoat said:
I met a Russian communist version of us once, and only avoided violence by pointing out the futility of us fighting one another."

And good thing too, since if he had the power if his comic self then you'd probably be paste.

Mr Zoat said:
add a excited plasma

'add an'

Mr Zoat said:
What about Lana?"

'Lena'

And I don't think that trainwreck of a marriage can be saved.

Mr Zoat · Dec 3, 2021

Darko said:
Well unless they're gay, have an ancestry that isn't considered okay or are too vocal in their opposition to the government.

Not exactly.

'I'm wondering'
'add an'
'Lena'

Thank you, corrected.

'from Kansas'

No, he means 'a Superman from Kansas'.

Massgamer · Dec 3, 2021

I guess it doesn't matter how much brainwashing you try to induce, even Overman has grown to hate his own home.

Reminds me of what happened to Soviet Superman too, someone he apparently met at some point.

Darko · Dec 3, 2021

Old Knife said:
What happened? I forgot.

In this story the Light made contact with Apokolips by use of a device Psimon created, while in the show it was shown that Darkseid and Vandal made a deal a long time ago.

The new season has shown a lot of new material, a lot of which can be contradictory to what has been shown in this story, so Zoat may not use it.

This is actually a problem when authors who write fanfiction about a certain thing but that thing later on continues, the events in it can be contradictory to the new material.

Some authors have used the material from season 3 even though they started writing their stories long before that season came out, though they may have also added in changes if they wanted to.

For example, Satire Swift, who created the Assimilation story, wrote a scene in which Nabu had a flashback to his past of creating the Helmet and later being called by Marduk, who was apparently Vandal Savage and Nabu's father like in season 3, unlike in this story where he's an alien.

Obloquy also expanded and used the material from season 3 by having Vandal and Darkseid meet up during his Genkhis Khan or Attila the Hun days, but that was apparently just one meeting and not even their first in that story's universe, with them having met thousands of years ago and Vandal actually attending Darkseids wedding to Suli as something like a best man. The two were actually friends and Darkseid considered Vandal his best friend.

Obviously they didn't adopt all the new material since they've made statements that contradict canon long before the new stuff came out, like in Life Ore Death, Obloquy's story, Nabu is apparently 20.000 years old and was forced to place his soul in the Helmet after someone used the spears of Diarmuid Ua Duibhne on him, which can disrupt magic and inflict wounds that can't heal, while in canon it turns out he's only a few thousand years old and was killed by some Starro controlled humans.

Authors can use material from the new seasons if they like, provided that it doesn't contradict what they've already written.

If you're interested in some of the new differences between Canon and this fic then here:

It turns out Klarion may not be a mortal turned Lord of Chaos like in this story, but rather he was apparently always a Lord of Chaos.

Also it turns out that more than one Lord of Order or Chaos can exist in the material universe, with the larest episode having another Chaos Lord, or Lady in this case, show up, while in the fic it was stated only one of each can exist in the material universe

Other changes are concerned with Mars, like it being rules by a central monarchy instead of various city states.

And Sorcerer Priests aren't Red Martians, but Yellow Martians, who are not born naturally but are rather Martians from the three colors that have taken the path of magic, with one magic user apparently being Green before their transition, while in this story Martian magic users are Red, with only Karmang being the exception.

DAT_NOOB · Dec 3, 2021

Massgamer said:
I guess it doesn't matter how much brainwashing you try to induce, even Overman has grown to hate his own home.

Reminds me of what happened to Soviet Superman too, someone, he apparently met at some point.

Didn't soviet superman think he made paradise until lex's letter at the end?

idk If you know but soviet superman.... died? at the end of his comic?

Darko · Dec 3, 2021

Massgamer said:
I guess it doesn't matter how much brainwashing you try to induce, even Overman has grown to hate his own home.

Reminds me of what happened to Soviet Superman too, someone he apparently met at some point.

I don't think that version hated his home or the communist philosophy.

I think he just left because he thought that he would have a negative influence on his societies development.

Chojin Patriarch · Dec 3, 2021

Mr Zoat said:
16th September 2012
19:16 GMT

"Hey Suuuuuuu…" Mr. Queen takes a better look at Overman's uniform. "You're not Supes."

Overman's expression doesn't display any nervousness he might be feeling. "English is not my first language. 'Soops' is my counterpart?"

Things are quite a bit less... Formal around here, honestly.

Comes from that uniquely American character. Still, look at this as a vacation away from the assholes you normally have to deal with, Karl.

Mr. Queen takes in to lightning bolt variant of the 'S' of House El on his chest, then stares at me in disbelief. "You wanna explain-."

"You are the Green Arrow."

...What clued you in? The green outfit? The green bow? The green arrowhead icon? ...Yeah, Ollie takes the theme just a bit too far sometimes.

"And you're Supernazi."

Overman's mouth widens involuntarily into a surprised smile, then he flicks his eyes up to the ceiling. "An entire world of Freemans."

Heh. And you met one of the most lively of the band of heroes...

"Free men. And yeah, it is."

Overman raises his right hand. "No, you misunderstand me. In my heart I disavowed national socialism decades ago. The people of much of my Earth have freedoms similar to what you are used to-."

...Which promises arguments akin to water and magnesium. I get the feeling Ollie's not happy about this meeting, whatever Karl says.

"Your Jews are free, are they?"

"All of our Jews are dead, Green Arrow. And unless you have walked into a still-functioning murder factory yourself, as I have, please do not imply that you understand the horror of it. I am here to-."

Gotta remember, he's about a century old... He's seen some shit.

"Recognized, Superman, zero one."

Overman looks curiously at the zeta tube. "That is not Kryptonian technology."

I know, right? It's like Kal-El has no interest in sharing... Then again, he probably thinks he has good reason.

"Great, Supes can deal with this." Shaking his head, Mr. Queen heads towards the elevator, a path that takes him closer to me. "Paul, I'm gunna get a breath of fresh air."

I look out of the window at the Watchtower's internal forest. "Of course. But do I need to point out the fact that Overgirl-?"

About as fresh as it's gonna get up here, I suspect. But then, you're not talking about the air quality, are you, Ollie?

"Yeah, don't assume I'm overjoyed about that either, but she wasn't born 'til it was over. That's a big distinction."

He looks back as Kal-El and Kal-El study each other. Then he shakes his head and completes his journey to the lift.

Oh, boy. Looks like dislike at first sight on Ollie's part. Now, how is Supes going to react?

Superman offers Overman his right hand. "Welcome to Earth 16."

"Thank you." He takes it, watching his counterpart's eyes and they cautiously shake. Superman knows from his Torquasm lessons that Overman is a good deal stronger than him when he exerts himself. "I wish it were under better circumstances. Being invaded by demons is not a pleasant experience."

...Jolly co-operation!

"I.. hope we can work together to solve that problem for both our worlds."

"I do as well. But I have met enough alternate versions of myself that I doubt that is the first question that comes to your mind."

I still find myself wondering how. I mean, his most notable appearance in modern comics was during Final Crisis: Superman Beyond.

Superman exhales. "Of course not. I wondering what would have happened if my pod had landed somewhere else."

"You were a Kansas?"

Yes, that is a common factor in most Supermen... To the point where those worlds it doesn't can be counted one one hand, as far as I know...

"What makes you ask that?"

"Most of us are, whatever era they came to Earth in. When a thing happens often enough it is not hard to find one who has not kept it a secret. I met a Russian communist version of us once, and only avoided violence by pointing out the futility of us fighting one another."

Well, 'Red Son' Superman is a highly intelligent man. Annoyed by resistance to his plans, but intelligent.

"Guess I've got something else to be grateful to my parents for."

"You.. refer to your foster parents?"

I doubt the Els were able to aim the pod that well, in most continuities. I remember JLA: The Nail, where Kal-El didn't end up with the Kents...

"Yes. I.. almost hate to ask, but-."

Overman looks away awkwardly for a moment. "They always ask if it was Hitler. It wasn't Hitler."

A good father is not a trait anyone would expect from the little tyrant...

"Well, who was it?"

"I did not have one." He shakes his head. "Hitler could not make up his mind. One week I was under the care of Artur Axmann, then next my father was Ulbrecht Kant. You would know his as the first Ubermensch."

Ah. I doubt that made for a happy childhood, though.

"I think Diana.. may have mentioned him once or twice."

"His sister Helga was the closest I had to a stable mother figure. I found out later that it was deliberate; they did not want their 'Man of Tomorrow' to feel personal loyalty to any one person. Other than the Fuhrer, but it was clear to all but the most ideologically blind that he could not raise a child."

True... Something I suspect even Karl could tell by the time he became an adult...

"Well, you… Seem to have gotten over the whole thing."

He closes his eyes, and for a moment I see-. Oh, goodness, it's not just the Nazi thing. He wants out of his life.

...Not suicidal, I hope. More of a desire to get away from a bad situation? More than a little sick of being treated as a near-divinity, I wouldn't doubt.

"No. But perhaps we should return to business. What progress have your magicians made with tracing the origin?"

Superman rises a little way into the air. "We can go and ask Doctor Mist. Orange Lantern's message said that you'd been working on the problem for a while. Why-?"

Heh, trying to avoid asking awkward questions, eh, Supes? At least he can be diplomatic when he has to be.

Overman follows him, and they fly in the direction of Dr. Mist's workshop. "After the Thulists were purged, there was little official tolerance for magicians. Atlantis cooperates with the surface world only as much as they must."

Superman frowns. "Surely if you're being invaded by demons-."

...I rather suspect Atlantis would be happy with the surface world ceasing to exist, if it weren't likely that the daemons would turn on them next.

Angelika puts her right hand on my shoulder as I move to follow them, so I stop and look at her.

"Could you..? Make a shield?"

After a private chat, eh? Private even from Kryptonian hearing... I have no doubt that Karl will have heard her asking, though.

I nod, creating a bubble that should prevent even an augmented kryptonian from hearing us inside it. In addition to an extra-thick shield I add a excited plasma layer that should confuse any exotic elements to his hearing.

"Done."

I bet not even that is enough for a really powerful Kryptonian like Karl... But he's probably not going to interfere, whatever Angelika asks.

"How bad is he?"

"Pretty darn bad. I'm honestly not sure that he wouldn't opt to stay here if we asked."

I shudder to imagine how his world would respond to that... Probably mass outbreaks of rebellion and fragmentation of government...

"What about Lana?"

"Who?"

She blinks. "I haven't mentioned her? Lana Kent?"

Not the childhood friend, then. Safe bet she's not an exact counterpart of someone in Superman's life, much like Jimmy Olsun.

"Not that I remember. We haven't.. actually spent all that much time talking about your home life. Outside of the obvious."

"She is his wife."

...Oh... Well, I guess we can guess as to the state of that marriage, given the lack of her in his thoughts.

Ah…

I shrug awkwardly. "I didn't…" I look in his direction. "If you.. had to characterise their relationship-."

Let me guess: Bad.

"He wants to divorce her, doesn't he?"

"He wants to not be associated with her, but there's another desire to live up to certain parts of national socialist ideology relating to family structures."

In other words, he feels he has to be married, but he's not interested in his current wife.

Angelika shakes her head. "She would be disgraced if Karl ended the marriage. I told you that childless women-."

"Are disrespected. And Karl can't have children with a human woman." I think for a moment. "She hates you, doesn't she?"

I can just imagine how. Karl sees Angelika as the child he could never have had otherwise, doesn't he?

"She hates a great many people. I think that she fell in love with Karl's propaganda image, and hates that he has failed to live up to her expectations. Or perhaps she was always a bitch; I only met her long after the romance had died."

"I.. think that's going to have to be a problem for another day." I drop the shield. "Let's go and see what Doctor Mist has learned."

Huh. Yeah, that could just be it. Some people are just... Yeah.

Hopefully Karl won't have a problem with Doctor Mist. Still, I suspect that to save his people, he'd work with the Devil himself. He comes across as a very Compassionate man, in the same way that that Superman is Hopeful. It'll be interesting to see how things play out once the crisis is over, though. Whether he and Angelika will return home right away or not...

Mr. Queen takes in to lightning bolt variant...

Mr. Queen takes in the lightning bolt variant...

You would know his as the first Ubermensch."

You would know him as the first Ubermensch."

crazygrox · Dec 3, 2021

DAT_NOOB said:
Didn't soviet superman think he made paradise until lex's letter at the end?

idk If you know but soviet superman.... died? at the end of his comic?

Yeah Lex convinced him that he was wrong to stifle humans to protect them from all the ills of the world, and before that he only had a few doubts.

But he didn't die. He barely survived, then lived for eons in hiding until Earth's sun went red, and the Luthor descendent name was abbreviated to L, then El, he lost enough memories to old age to not realize that earth was turning into Krypton, with Kryptonian powers being the result of genetic engineering, then baby Kal-El was sent back in time in the face of the impending destruction of earth, ?maybe creating a time loop?

edit: You know what I kinda want to see: a good Lex Luthor with the resources of a nation behind him fighting a war to the knife with Nazi superman and Nazis with Kryptonian tech. It has the potential to be the sort of military-themed uphill struggle that I find fascinating.

Kalem_Lee · Dec 3, 2021

Is that Hitler clone going to make a reappearance?

Sordid Snake · Dec 3, 2021

Mr Zoat said:
I'm honestly not sure that he wouldn't opt to stay here if we asked."

It would be hilarious if he asked for political asylum but unfortunately he won't.

Darko · Dec 3, 2021

Chojin Patriarch said:
Things are quite a bit less... Formal around here, honestly. Comes from that uniquely American character. Still, look at this as a vacation away from the assholes you normally have to deal with, Karl.

And the League is mostly friendly with each other, so there's that.

Chojin Patriarch said:
What clued you in? The green outfit? The green bow? The green arrowhead icon? ...Yeah, Ollie takes the theme just a bit too far sometimes.

Hey, at least it fits.

Chojin Patriarch said:
Which promises arguments akin to water and magnesium. I get the feeling Ollie's not happy about this meeting, whatever Karl says.

Would you be happy if you met someone that worked for the Nazi government, even if they don't agree with their governments policies.

Chojin Patriarch said:
I know, right? It's like Kal-El has no interest in sharing... Then again, he probably thinks he has good reason

He probably does.

The reasons can range from the introduction of the technology interfering and damaging humanity's own advancement, to society not being stable enough for it to be shared, or maybe even the Kryptonian version of the Orime Directive forbidding the sharing if their tech.

Chojin Patriarch said:
I still find myself wondering how. I mean, his most notable appearance in modern comics was during Final Crisis: Superman Beyond

He could have been sent there by outside forces, weird science stuff etc.

Chojin Patriarch said:
Not suicidal, I hope. More of a desire to get away from a bad situation? More than a little sick of being treated as a near-divinity, I wouldn't doubt.

Especially since that divinity is regarded as the one that helped slaughter millions.

Chojin Patriarch said:
...I rather suspect Atlantis would be happy with the surface world ceasing to exist, if it weren't likely that the daemons would turn on them next

Though they probably won't interfere unless attacked themselves.

Chojin Patriarch said:
I shudder to imagine how his world would respond to that... Probably mass outbreaks of rebellion and fragmentation of government

Not necessarily.

Karl is an important figure but he's not necessarily the thing holding their society together.

People may become disillusioned if their champion leaves and may question their philosophy.

The Freedom Fighters may also become stronger since one of the enemies' strongest and most powerful members has left.

Chojin Patriarch said:
Not the childhood friend, then. Safe bet she's not an exact counterpart of someone in Superman's life, much like Jimmy Olsun.

I think she's the version of Luthor there.

Lex would be so jealous that he's not the first person to bang Supes.

Chojin Patriarch said:
Karl sees Angelika as the child he could never have had otherwise, doesn't he?

And Lena hates her because she sees her as something like proof of her inability to give him a child.

Chojin Patriarch said:
Hopefully Karl won't have a problem with Doctor Mist

He may not, since he gave up Nazism, but it may be awkward if he doesn't have much experience with people of different ethnicities, so he may say some wrong words even if he doesn't mean to be insulting.

Vaermina · Dec 3, 2021

Mr Zoat said:
"Are disrespected. And Karl can't have children with a human woman." I think for a moment. "She hates you, doesn't she?"

That's still probably one of the oddest changes to canon in this story...

BlueMangoAdea · Dec 3, 2021

Kalem_Lee said:
Is that Hitler clone going to make a reappearance?

I want OL to tell Overman about him, at the very least. I suspect that the clone wouldn't be too enthused to meet nazi superman, though.

Darko · Dec 3, 2021

BlueMangoAdea said:
I want OL to tell Overman about him, at the very least. I suspect that the clone wouldn't be too enthused to meet nazi superman, though.

He probably had his fill of Nazis with the Kriegers.

There also isn't much reason to show him since he may not contribute much aside from being shock value and funny given the fact that he married an individual the Nazis would consider to be subhuman.

It could potentially undermine the Nazi philosophy, but that's it.

Mr Zoat · Dec 3, 2021

Massgamer said:
Reminds me of what happened to Soviet Superman too, someone he apparently met at some point.

No, not really. The Red Son version came to realise that he'd hurt the people he was trying to help by centring everything around himself, but he never felt the same disgust for the soviet state that Overman feels for the national socialist state. If I recall the comic correctly, he just says something along the lines of 'that was Comrade Stalin's way, not mine'.

And since Lex basically runs things the same way he did, if he'd hated his state then he'd have hated that, too.

DAT_NOOB said:
Didn't soviet superman think he made paradise until lex's letter at the end?

No. There's a scene where he's talking to Wonder Woman about the fact that ships don't have life boats anymore. It's clear that he realises that something is going wrong before the final realisation.

idk If you know but soviet superman.... died? at the end of his comic?

No, he didn't. Look at the last few pre-epilogue pages again.

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