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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

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Mr Zoat said:
No, he didn't. Look at the last few pre-epilogue pages again.
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crazygrox said:
Yeah Lex convinced him that he was wrong to stifle humans to protect them from all the ills of the world, and before that he only had a few doubts.

But he didn't die. He barely survived, then lived for eons in hiding until Earth's sun went red, and the Luthor descendent name was abbreviated to L, then El, he lost enough memories to old age to not realize that earth was turning into Krypton, then baby Kal-El was sent back in time in the face of the impending destruction of earth, ?maybe creating a time loop?


edit: You know what I kinda want to see: a good Lex Luthor with the resources of a nation behind him fighting a war to the knife with Nazi superman and Nazis with Kryptonian tech. It has the potential to be the sort of military-themed uphill struggle that I find fascinating.
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I choose to interpret that as the death of 'superman' but not the death of Kal-EL I totally didn't forget shut up
 
jasonh23761 said:
Leave the poor man alone. He can't help that he was the product of a crazed Nazi wizard's experiment. He lives peacefully as a somewhat unremarkable architect with a wife and kids. The man is at peace, leave him be.
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He was apparently fairly well known in his country's architectural circles, so I wouldn't call him unremarkable.
 
Darko said:
He was apparently fairly well known in his country's architectural circles, so I wouldn't call him unremarkable.
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True, it's more in the grand scheme of things I suppose. I think I just have a fondness for the guy, just how earnest he was with Paul and Rocket when he met them for the first time.

He is precious and must be protected.
 
Old Knife said:
You know what? That just makes it another "universe to explore" for Zoat.
Whether another Paul exists there or if this will be Paragon's "Equestria". (Alt world to visit and have fun in):D
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Well the final episode may involve Paul going to an Earth 16 where he didn't show up, so there's that.
 
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Why is Overman so much stronger than Superman? Is it an age thing or has he done something to himself to make himself as strong as possible?
 
Bud-E said:
Why is Overman so much stronger than Superman? Is it an age thing or has he done something to himself to make himself as strong as possible?
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It's a combination of things. He is older and as such has been exposed to the yellow sun for longer. He has also been practicing Torquasm for many years, this would have strengthened his Kryptonian abilities. Finally he is also willing to use lethal force while Superman will struggle not to hold back.
 
I find Overman so much more sympathetic than the Injustice Superman.

Darko said:
This is actually a problem when authors who write fanfiction about a certain thing but that thing later on continues, the events in it can be contradictory to the new material.
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I just had "Ranma reconciles with his mother" flashbacks. Ugh.
 
Senevri said:
I find Overman so much more sympathetic than the Injustice Superman.
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Injustice Superman is Evil, and maybe insane. He kills anyone that disagree with him, except Batman, and he does so much worse to him. All because he had one bad day.

Overman lives knowing he incidently helped a world-wide genocide. That his country, nearly everyone he knows, worship pointless hatred and kills innocents for being weak or different. And he is still worthy of being called Superman.

Even Ultraman was made more sympathetic than Injustice Superman
 
I kinda hope The JL gets involved with Nazi Earth maybe help Overman set up a less evil government. I know that would take a great deal of time and effort and it's not what the league usually does, but in this case, I can see them making an exception.
 
The Injustice comics actually made me feel bad for Injustice Superman. There was a period of time where he was actually pretty damn benevolent but people wouldn't stop fucking with him even during that relatively benign period and that progressively pushed him over the edge. Between Batman riding around on a pretty goddamn ridiculous high horse and Wonder Woman being a goddamn psychopath actively encouraging Superman to be an asshole . . . Well, Injustice Superman could have actually turned out pretty great.

Though that's mostly the comic storyline. The games never really portray him as anything other than a piece of shit.

Either way, I absolutely hate and despise the way that Injustice just completely ignores Harley's role in things and instead puts her on some ridiculous pedestal to be worshipped.

As for Overman . . . I'm honestly a little surprised he isn't more indoctrinated than he is, even if he hates the genocides, given he would have been raised from infancy by Nazis who would absolutely be going out of their way to indoctrinate him as much as possible. It's not like he would have had a caretaker encouraging him to question the creed.
 
Vaermina said:
That's still probably one of the oddest changes to canon in this story...
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There are stories in DC in which kryptonians and humans aren't genetically compatible.

Probably the most famous of which is All-Star Superman.

They are outnumbered by stories in which that isn't as issue in my experience though.

Since he started this story before season 3, this wasn't him ignoring canon but choosing which canon he liked.
 
ForeverShogo said:
As for Overman . . . I'm honestly a little surprised he isn't more indoctrinated than he is, even if he hates the genocides, given he would have been raised from infancy by Nazis who would absolutely be going out of their way to indoctrinate him as much as possible. It's not like he would have had a caretaker encouraging him to question the creed
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He may have been indoctrinated in his youth but people that have been indoctrinated with such beliefs have broken out of them and he may be no different.

He has also met other versions of himself and seen other universes, so he may have experienced the same thing Angelika did when she saw how those societies worked and how Nazism wasn't necessary.
 
Darko said:
Also it turns out that more than one Lord of Order or Chaos can exist in the material universe, with the larest episode having another Chaos Lord, or Lady in this case, show up, while in the fic it was stated only one of each can exist in the material universe
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IIRC, this fic never asserted that there could only be one of each in the universe. They maintain a balance of power to strive to keep the numbers equal, and they don't want to have two Lords of the same kind in the same place, but I'm pretty sure it's not constrained to one per universe.
 
Coda said:
IIRC, this fic never asserted that there could only be one of each in the universe. They maintain a balance of power to strive to keep the numbers equal, and they don't want to have two Lords of the same kind in the same place, but I'm pretty sure it's not constrained to one per universe.
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I think that it is constrained to one per universe by more than just an understanding or agreement.

Mr Zoat said:
With him still alive cosmic balance itself prevented me from returning to exact my revenge.
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I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure that the one per universe thing is true.
 
Ngamer11 said:
Is Mordru's planet in another dimension or something?
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No, it's in Universe 16.

After a fight with the Justice Society, Mordru was banished to some place and Klarion took his place.

When Mordru disappeared his home world changed their government and started doing things without him.

After Klarion died, Mordru came back and took over, only to be killed in a plot by renegade.
 
Darko said:
No, it's in Universe 16.

After a fight with the Justice Society, Mordru was banished to some place and Klarion took his place.

When Mordru disappeared his home world changed their government and started doing things without him.

After Klarion died, Mordru came back and took over, only to be killed in a plot by renegade.
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Um. If, if Constantine is trying to get rid of his Lord of Chaos powers (as he did the Lord of Order powers), maybe Mordru is back in the Paragon timeline. Mordru popping up, ganking (or sending off) Constantine, and proceeding to study the modern world from the shadows… Dang. That'd be a significant threat.

If I'm wrong- anybody know of any other DC fanfics with Mordru as a character?
 
NightmareWarden said:
Um. If, if Constantine is trying to get rid of his Lord of Chaos powers (as he did the Lord of Order powers), maybe Mordru is back in the Paragon timeline. Mordru popping up, ganking (or sending off) Constantine, and proceeding to study the modern world from the shadows… Dang. That'd be a significant threat.

If I'm wrong- anybody know of any other DC fanfics with Mordru as a character?
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I think Constantine is trying to master his Chaos powers.

And I know of one fanfic where Mordru shows up, though it was only to introduce himself to Savage.

It's called Mosaic.
 
Past Participant (part 13)
  • Threadmarks
    • 16th September 2012
    19:21 GMT

    "…access their world."

    So this is where the machine the Sivanas built to send us to Witch World ended up.

    Dr. Balewa gestures to the inscriptions drawn onto a portion of the device controlling the start and end points. Further runes link that to the chair Mike's sitting on, Nabu's skull-helmet still on his head. Looks like… Steering and anchoring.

    Not sure how I'll feel if it turns out that Dr. Balewa only needed an hour or so to bypass the whole 'need a host to use magic' restriction.

    Overman is taking a closer look at the helmet.

    "This came from their world?"

    "Yes. That's one of the functions of the orange light; I can turn people into constructs. Then they become my slaves."

    He looks understandably concerned. "Slaves-?"

    "Do not be so confident. I have overcome domination spells before."

    "I only use it in cases where the target is irredeemable and there's an operational reason to keep them around. In this case, we need access to his Earth and… You don't have to talk to him for long to realise that he's a lost cause."

    "I had assumed that you would not use such methods."

    Superman gives me a mildly disappointed look.

    "We don't. The Justice League don't."

    "But sometimes it's really convenient if someone who isn't a member does something and shares what they learned. Superman, I would honestly be happy to debate the efficacy of lethal force with you-. Oh."

    I frown.

    "Something wrong?"

    "If the angels hadn't destroyed the Sword of the Fallen I might have been able to use it to turn him back. One of… Larfleeze's Construct-Lanterns is a Guardian. Even if he ended up back as… They used to be before bonding with their symbiotes, it would still have been a big help for the Green Lantern Corps." I shrug. "Missed opportunity. Sorry. Carry on."

    "I would have bound him in ways just as unpleasant and far less reliable. With evil spirits, a magician's options are limited."

    Superman looks at Nabu. "What happened to you?"

    "I realised how worthless everything I'd ever done and every belief I'd ever had was."

    "And so you decided to lash out at everyone around you?"

    "You were most persuasive."

    Superman blinks, then I see his eyes flick towards Overman for an instant.

    "What happened?"

    "No. You'll need me to pass undetected through their wards. I want to see your face when you-."

    "You're not a free agent, Nabu. Tell him what he wants to know."

    "You did."

    Superman nods. "I thought that was what you meant. Was I-. Was there something wrong with me from the start?"

    "No. You were a virtuous hero. Until you weren't. Or perhaps you were feigning virtue all along. That seems more likely. I certainly wouldn't have tolerated Lois Lane for as long as you did. How many times can a woman fall from a building before it becomes obvious that the problem is her? I wasn't there to witness the change myself, and by the time I returned to the material universe it seemed unimportant."

    "So Demon Superman rules over the Earth."

    "If you can call it ruling. He mostly just sits there and listens to the misery of the surviving population. I imagine that his super hearing allows him to hear all of it. I wonder how it will make you feel."

    "Sick to my stomach, probably. But I'll sleep better at night knowing that I did something than knowing that I did nothing."

    "I doubt that. But far be it for me to stop you."

    Overman looks thoughtful.

    "What is your Superman trying to achieve?"

    "Little to nothing. Whatever the netherfiends whispering in his head tell him. I have no particular insight."

    "And the other heroes?"

    "They are his creatures now, ruined in mind and soul. Monstrous beasts without the intellect he himself maintains."

    "And the mark thing?"

    "Ritual humiliation. He breaks their will as he breaks their world."

    "That doesn't sound like me. If anything, it sounds like Darkseid."

    "Darkseid is hardly the only great evil in the universe. In time, you will be just as bad."

    "I don't believe that for a moment. I just met a Nazi version of myself and even he's trying to be a better man." Superman looks over to Overman. "How old did you say you were?"

    "I arrived on Earth in nineteen thirty nine. If that is when I was born, then I am seventy three."

    "Then it sounds like I've got a little while. Doctor Mist, can you get us there?"

    Dr. Balewa nods. "I can open a portal to their Earth. But if I went through myself, I may have difficulty adapting to a world saturated with demon magic."

    "Angelica?"

    "Yes?"

    "Ah, no, Angelica Blaze. Her or Zauriel. Theurgy should still work, shouldn't it?"

    He nods. "I believe so. But it would also draw the attention of the entire world."

    "We can't fight everyone on the planet, not if we want to save them." Superman nods. "Call them in, but have them on stand by. What do you say, Overman?"

    "You want to save them?"

    "If an evil version of us has taken over and corrupted the place, I'd say it's our job to fix it."

    Overman watches his face for a moment and then looks away, smiling.

    "Yes. Let us save these poor huddled masses. I assume that you will not countenance the use of lethal force?"

    Superman looks at me for a moment.

    "If there-. If there are situations where you can't avoid it without innocent people dying… But try not to."

    Overman nods, and Superman flies towards the portal.

    "Doctor, send us through."
     
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    • Mr Zoat said:
    Not sure how I'll feel if it turns out that Dr. Balewa only needed an hour or so to bypass the whole 'need a host to use magic' restriction
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    Mist is the oldest known magic user on the planet, so it's not weird that he'd know more about magic compared to other people, including Nabu.

    And this may only allow Nabu to use his magic to a limited degree that's inferior compared to a host.

    Mr Zoat said:
    say it's our job to fix the it.
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    'to fix it'
     
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