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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

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Mr Zoat said:
just think he's a old and crazy
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"he's an old"

Mr Zoat said:
casually patting Human Bomb on the shoulder as [urlhttps://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Kent_Thurston_(New_Earth)]Invisible Hood[/url] backs away. "Same
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There's problem with what I'm assuming is supposed to be a link.

Mr Zoat said:
charter was signed off on my the United Nations Security Council
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Remove "my"

Mr Zoat said:
"How much control did Captain Nazi have?"

"Pass
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Such a Zoat thing to say.

Mr Zoat said:
"Marvellous. Remind me why we haven't replaced them all with robots
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Who says some haven't been replaced?

Mr Zoat said:
"If we did, they might actually start working
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Ha!
 
Mr Zoat said:
"Alan and Jay?"

"They knew him, but it's been a long time. And we've only got the word of 'The American Goddess of Liberty'-" He sounds like he's not taking the idea entirely seriously.
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Why isn't Robin taking it seriously? That can't be the strangest thing he's heard.
 
Mr Zoat said:
shoulder as [urlhttps://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Kent_Thurston_(New_Earth)]Invisible Hood[/url] backs away
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Link problem?
Mr Zoat said:
signed off on my the United Nations Security Council
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??? My the?
Mr Zoat said:
"Good luck. But right now they don't have any telepathic defences."

"Marvellous. Remind me why we haven't replaced them all with robots?"

"If we did, they might actually start working."
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Remind me. What are Morrow and Ivo doing now?
 
Mr Zoat said:
29th October 2012
22:23 GMT -5

"Recognised, Orange Lantern, B Zero Six."

"Hey, Oh El."

As the lights fade I see Richard working at the main computer. He doesn't look around.
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Checking in, I see. No doubt part of the Uncle Sam investigation, eh? Since he can't really do much on the Persephone front until he meets back up with Zagreus. I assume he mentioned her request to Hephaestaean off-screen between chapters... And a conspicuous lack of looking for John Constantine. Dangit, OL...

"You know you.. can just use my name."

"It's not a good idea to get into the habit of calling superheroes by name when they're in uniform."
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Even when they have a public identity. I bet teen superheroes have it extra hard, working to maintain that discipline.

I consider that for a moment, then shrug and switch into normal clothes.

"Better?"
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Of course, given OL's taste in clothes...

He glances around, and smirks. "I'm not exactly a fashion expect, but I don't know I'd call it better, Paul."

"Y'all just jealous of my Orange Lantern swagger." I stroll over. "What are you working on?"
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Ah, OL. making references no-one would get. Can't imagine what the manga and anime scene is like in this universe.

"Uncle Sam."

"Can you..? Explain to me how significant a figure he is? To Americans?"
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Since the nearest British equivalents, John Bull and Britannia, are not nearly so commonly seen in the last century or so.

"Ah, he hasn't been around for a while, Paul. Most Americans just think he's a old and crazy Greatest-Generation-patriotic superhero."

"Do we know what he actually is?"
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As in, is he really the anthropomorphic personification of America, or just a cape with a theme and maybe a bit of crazy?

"Why? Did you get done messing with the Greek gods so you need to mess with the American ones?"

"Lady Liberty defected to Japan."
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To be fair, would she want to hang around the people she supposedly represents these days? DCU America is... Well...

"Freedom of Religion, Paul. She can be worshipped by whoever she wants."

"Just because you have the constitutionally guaranteed freedom to do something, that doesn't mean that you should use it. Find anything?"
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And I find it amusing that Robin's reversing the logic of the wording to fit the situation... :p But what can we expect from someone who actually used 'whelmed' as an actual term?

"Well, he does act a little different, but the analysis program is working from nineteen forties video footage. It's pretty much all staged, which means his actions aren't natural."

"Did Red Tornado or Red Inferno meet him? We might be able to download a video file."
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Sadly, the Freedom Fighters and All-Star Squadron didn't really work together that much. I'm guessing it was something of an East Coast/West Coast Avengers division...

"I already asked." He calls up a video file, and I get a grainy video of a party of some sort. A square forms around one corner of the room and expands, showing Uncle Sam casually patting Human Bomb on the shoulder as Invisible Hood backs away. "Same problem. They only met him a couple of times and didn't work together."

"Alan and Jay?"
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Wow, Sam shows no fear, eh? :D Joy of the unconquerable American Spirit, huh?

"They knew him, but it's been a long time. And we've only got the word of 'The American Goddess of Liberty'-" He sounds like he's not taking the idea entirely seriously. "-that there's anything wrong in the first place. Batman didn't notice anything wrong when he spoke to him."

"Batman's American."
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...Which means he might well have taken anything Sam said as gospel truth, depending on how the connection works.

"So you think he's got some kind of American-specific mind control? Bit of a stretch."

"Until you remember that Captain Nazi could influence the minds of Germans. Did Diana meet him?"
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I mean, she does spend a lot of her time in America. Maybe it kind-of works on her?

"Ah, I don't think so." He brings up a Justice League itinerary. "No. Not officially."

"Rats. So I assume that it's inconclusive."
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For now, anyway.

"Well, there are differences." He calls up a couple of examples, one of Uncle Sam walking down a corridor and another of him shaking someone's hand. "But there aren't enough from the forties for me to be sure that was how he always did it. And even if it was, that doesn't mean he hasn't just changed how he does it."

"Or if he is something like Captain Nazi, he could have died and been replaced by a doppelgänger. That's not necessarily a cause for concern."
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And in the 'U.S.' series the subplot comes from, the change happened after World War I. I doubt the Great Depression helped.

"This might be."

He brings up Uncle Sam's itinerary.
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Because of course he has a public appearance circuit routine...

"Not that I mind, but did we get that legitimately or-."

"No."

"I suppose this probably won't go to court one way or the other. Is-?" I see what he's talking about. "Ah."
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Best option is Old Sam gets his act together and kicks the New Deal Sam's ass.

Uncle Sam's been meeting with the with people on the House Committee on the Judiciary, which is odd but not really a cause for concern in itself. Usually a superhero would have to have a little more renown that he has to be called up for the sake of it, but his whole thing is being 'Super United States Man'. The potential problem is that he's also been talking to a lot of people responsible for running the Alliance.
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Ooh, a tie back to the Demon Pistols, eh? Worrying.

The Justice League's charter was signed off on by the United Nations Security Council, which means that the U.S. Federal Government via the State Department approved it. But while that covers the League, actual U.S. policy towards superpowered vigilantes varies greatly from place to place. Occasionally, some brave soul suggests federal regulation, then someone points to Gotham or Hub City as a good example of why a government bypass isn't always a bad thing.
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Yes, that sort of thing never goes down well in any comic-book universe.

Or they wish them good luck arresting Superman, or they ask them how good their health plan is.

"That's worrying, but it's hardly a smoking gun."
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Yeah, some of the villains don't have anywhere near the restraint a hero would. The 'Alucard Amount' might well be low-balling it, for some.

"How much control did Captain Nazi have?"

"Pass. Some. It's hard to quantify that sort of thing. How much mind control protection do Members of Congress have?"
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Ooh, that's a worry. All it would take in one sneaky telepath or enchanter, and...

"Basically? None."

My smile vanishes. "That's a problem."
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:rolleyes: Gee, you think?

"A few have wards which should stop magic mind control-."

"Ah… No. If they're using the type I think they are, they won't. Not the style Captain Nazi used. They're designed to weaken or throw off ongoing spells. Captain Nazi's control was undirected; everyone in a place was in effect surrounded by the spell at all times. There isn't anywhere to throw it off too. Even my spell eaters would just keep heating up until they became useless. Telepath blockers?"
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The sort of power that makes those susceptible go 'This guy, he knows what he's talking about, yeah!', I bet.

"I don't think we've got those."

"We've got g-gnomes. They could easily block any hostile telepath they'd be likely to encounter. I'd bet on a few dozen of them even against someone as strong as M'gann."
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And there aren't many on that level. Psimon only managed what he did by surprise...

"Wouldn't that just mean that the g-gnomes were controlling Congress rather than anyone else?"

"I trust creatures without an instinct to dominate more than I would most humans. But we should probably raise the issue with the Speaker of the House at some point."
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Or the security personnel? Whoever manages that stuff...

"Good luck. But right now they don't have any telepathic defences."

"Marvellous. Remind me why we haven't replaced them all with robots?"

"If we did, they might actually start working."
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...Ah. Oh, yes, I remember that little subplot. Wonder if a visit by Martian Manhunter or Miss Martian would uncover some unexpected things.

Honestly, you'd think they'd have more protection on the people who nominally run their country. I guess they figure no super-villain with the means would dare try such a blatant scheme? And once again, we see things arranging themselves to distract OL, eh? Yet another 'someone should get on that.' thing that he can't bring himself to leave to someone less busy than himself...
 
Chojin Patriarch said:
To be fair, would she want to hang around the people she supposedly represents these days? DCU America is... Well...
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At least it isn't Marvel America.

Chojin Patriarch said:
Wow, Sam shows no fear, eh? :D Joy of the unconquerable American Spirit, huh?
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If he dies get blown up then he'll either survive or reform later on.

Chojin Patriarch said:
And in the 'U.S.' series the subplot comes from, the change happened after World War I. I doubt the Great Depression helped.
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Yeah, millions of people losing hope probably weakened him.
 
Chojin Patriarch said:
Oh, yes, I remember that little subplot. Wonder if a visit by Martian Manhunter or Miss Martian would uncover some unexpected things.
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Refresh my memory, was that plot with Gonzo the Mechanical Bastard replacing President Horne a Renegade only thing (in an alternate universe no less)? Did they try that with Senator Knight on this side? Actually, is Senator Knight's daughter the Phantom Lady in this universe, or not? She's also worked with Uncle Sam in some continuities, right? So much to keep track of.
 
m_d said:
Refresh my memory, was that plot with Gonzo the Mechanical Bastard replacing President Horne a Renegade only thing (in an alternate universe no less)? Did they try that with Senator Knight on this side? Actually, is Senator Knight's daughter the Phantom Lady in this universe, or not? She's also worked with Uncle Sam in some continuities, right? So much to keep track of.
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The thing with Gonzo was an alternate universe thing. However, in Renegade's universe SHADE was creating their own robot to replace him (rather than using an Apokaliptian robot), which seems like it might have happened in Paragon universe, since SHADE definitely exists there and hasn't been destroyed like in Renegade's universe. There is a problem in that Paul's empathy might detect a robot, but he's been holding back on the empathy for a while now and he doesn't meet the President in person often. If the robot had no emotions he could probably detect it, but I think a sufficiently complex robot can have emotions detectable by his empathy.
Mr Zoat said:
There isn't anywhere to throw it off too.
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'to'
 
I know some people disliked the fact that Paul sang when Heph took down Zeus, but I think any potential battle with the Fake Uncle Sam could be better served with a song.

 
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m_d said:
That could be fun indeed.

A difficulty I see with this plan that I haven't seen people mention yet: Assume that Paul and company work out the Lethe mechanics and Persephone agrees with the idea (huge assumption, but bear with me). After she forgets Hades in the context of marriage, she's still Persephone, just without that part of her life..
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You're overthinking it. They're not trying to BAMBOOZLE Persephone, there's no reason to hide that she forgot things or that they didn't happen. The common sense thing would be to immediately tell her she was made to forget some things as a form of trauma therapy.

This isn't Common Sense Paul, though.
 
Cuchulin said:
Paul had no way no knowing that Nabu was a net good who spend all his spare time deal with mystical threats to the world/humanity. Also, Paragon didn't go "straight to murder". Nabu was offered all kinds of ways out such as a mindless golem body and efforts to find pretty much ANY host that wasn't Zatanna's father, but Nabu's attitude was that of arrogance and feeling that he didn't have to explain or justify himself to anyone because he was entitled to use Giovanni Zatara as his body and run the man into the ground.
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Nabu literally said that his absence caused issues. And you can compare issues of his inactivity vs him being active. Roanoke never happened while he was active.

Plus it was straight to murder. He ambushed Nabu and didnt give him any option other than come off on that moment and trust Paul not to just put him back on the shelf. And Paul had not done anything to warrent extending trust given he ambushed Nabu and didnt have anyone prepared for the rotation idea. Heck, Paul didnt even trust any League member. He spent the better part of a year messing with all sorts of magical stuff that was reckless such as giving Zatanna the Star Saphire.

And Nabu was right to fear being put back on the shelf since they had already promised to find a host and done nothing. OL has already shown that he can hustle. He did absolutely nothing after KF or Aqualad wore the Helmet.

OL went into that fight planning to murder Nabu. He was not reasonable in that interaction.
 
Radix said:
Nabu literally said that his absence caused issues. And you can compare issues of his inactivity vs him being active. Roanoke never happened while he was active.

Plus it was straight to murder. He ambushed Nabu and didnt give him any option other than come off on that moment and trust Paul not to just put him back on the shelf. And Paul had not done anything to warrent extending trust given he ambushed Nabu and didnt have anyone prepared for the rotation idea. Heck, Paul didnt even trust any League member. He spent the better part of a year messing with all sorts of magical stuff that was reckless such as giving Zatanna the Star Saphire.

And Nabu was right to fear being put back on the shelf since they had already promised to find a host and done nothing. OL has already shown that he can hustle. He did absolutely nothing after KF or Aqualad wore the Helmet.

OL went into that fight planning to murder Nabu. He was not reasonable in that interaction.
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While I think that Nabu got screwed over, Paul did try to reason with him for a bit.

When he ambushed him he actually showed him a golem he had made for Nabu to use as a host, which Nabu destroyed.

Granted, Nabu had little reason to trust Paul, but Paul did try something similar before that when he told Nabu the idea of a golem host but Nabu turned it down.
 
Really, the main problem (as I saw it) was who was making the offer. Given Paul's chaotic nature, complete with claiming Eris as a patron, Nabu flat out couldn't accept that the offers being made to him were made in good faith. Perhaps if Paul had been willing to convince someone else to offer the golem, things might have gone differently. Though I guess it'd depend on if there's someone Nabu actually would have trusted to make that offer.

Instead we had, "Ugh. The chaos gremlin that doesn't like me. No way this isn't a scheme to fuck me over."
 
ForeverShogo said:
Really, the main problem (as I saw it) was who was making the offer. Given Paul's chaotic nature, complete with claiming Eris as a patron, Nabu flat out couldn't accept that the offers being made to him were made in good faith. Perhaps if Paul had been willing to convince someone else to offer the golem, things might have gone differently. Though I guess it'd depend on if there's someone Nabu actually would have trusted to make that offer.

Instead we had, "Ugh. The chaos gremlin that doesn't like me. No way this isn't a scheme to fuck me over."
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It's LePaul's MO, he did same thing with Zeus.

Have a reasonable offer/request, but make the offer/request to the person in the most antagonist way possible so they are sure to refuse you.

It's the type of thing bad faith actors do so they can turn to third parties and go "Okay, I tried to be reasonable" to justify whatever extreme unreasonable action they actually took.
 
Oh yeah, found out that they brought Razer into Young Justice. In fact, the story appears to claim that Green Lantern Animated is in continuity with Young Justice. Not sure how they square that with Jordan's attitude towards Guy, but okay.

Edit: Also, flip you Google. I know I wasn't spelling 'rapprochement' properly but I wasn't that far off.
 
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