With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

megrisvernin · Jun 7, 2022

Cuchulin said:
The South had understood for a fairly long time that plantation slavery HAD to expand or it would die choking on it's own waste. In fact from what I have read in states like Virginia most plantations were dependent on selling slaves to plantations further south and west because of diminishing crop yields.

While certainly those invested in slavery as a system wanted to perpetuate it, there were a large number of applications of slaves in skilled trades like brickmasons or blacksmiths and so on.

In cases where you can't just sell slaves themselves as commodities to work till they break, like in heavy agricultural work, use tends to shift to trades that are less backbreaking. Just out of financial sense. Slavery probably would persist for quite a while even if it was prevented from spreading to other states.

Mr Zoat · Jun 7, 2022

7th November 2012
Roughly 11:02 GMT -5

"Yaagh!"

Still wrapped in chains, I have no clear view of it as Johnny Reb falls into the newly dug pit, slides down the ramp of earth and rubble and rolls straight into a pile of worms. But my rings do, and they're kind enough to share it with me. The worms squirm and slime, one vomiting at him-

"Goddamn worthless-!"

-and covering his right arm and the right side of his chest with acid bile.

"Ah!"

He drops his branding iron and tears off his coat and shirt, tossing the smouldering garments to the ground to reveal the reddening skin beneath. More than human toughness, but not invulnerability.

Extricate myself.

I create a circular saw construct and use it to try to slice through the outside of the chains. It dies immediately, the orange light sucked into the metal and relayed to The Brass. X-ionised saw instead, try that. It's.. cutting, but far more slowly than it should through iron links.

On his gurney, Sam's eyes flutter open with a low groan. "Nrgggh show Dickie how tricky I can..."

He blinks and focuses.

"Snivelling Worms, I don't need to unchain a million to deal with you."

The straps binding him glow red, blue and white-. Yeah, he's got that. My saw is almost through the first link, but I think that I'm entangled in a chain net rather than-.

"BRASS! PULL THE VARMINT IN!"

Ah, gr-ah!

The Brass pulls fast, pressing me into the chains as Washington shoots beneath me. I lose my constructs-.

"Eagle!"

There's a squeaking noise, like a rubbing wheel being dragged by degrees across a linoleum floor, as the eagle flies past at high speed.

"Uncle Sam is under the Lincoln Memorial! Along with Johnny-!"

Oooff!

Right into the side of The Brass, a blue boxing glove slamming into him somewhere above me. He doesn't move, but hopefully without Uncle Sam's corrupted blood to fuel him he'll be a little more manageable.

"Paul, you need a hand?!"

"Would be nice!"

Clack!

Yes, that's a link. Between the cutting and the force of the impact, it's given up the ghost. Unfortunately I'm too surrounded by chains that I can't make another saw without the drain draining me dry. Ring?

Forty seven percent remaining.

Well, there's my knife-

KABOOM!

-and damn that's loud! Okay, I've got just enough range of movement to… Draw it. Angle's awkward, but if I push it like that I think I'm-.

Clank.

I drop, chains falling away as I half-fall half-slide down The Brass's armoured back, the construct metal cutter Alan used to free me floating over my head as I-

Forty five percent remaining.

-try to-

Forty one percent remaining.

-establish an environmental shield but the patch on my helmet where Johnny Reb branded is glowing and the orange light just isn't forming and-

Thirty eight percent remaining.

-my armour's flight system is damaged and I'm struggling to get the chains off me because this doesn't look like-

Thirty five percent remaining.

-a survivable fall.

"Hate to nag, but-!"

Clank.

There's a noise like a carslide at a salvage yard as the chain net falls apart around me and-

Thirty one percent remaining.

-I tear my helmet from my head and chuck it aside as I'm free again, environmental shield reappearing as I slow my descent and swap to my heavy armour.

"Thank you! Back of the legs!"

I use the armour's flight systems-

"You get back here!"

-to zoom over Washington, heading for the Lincoln Memorial as The Brass shouts impotently in my wake. I see the eagle dart into the hole I made for Johnny Reb-.

A strange jangling sound makes me viff to the left, but a quick look behind me shows me that Alan has cut through the blood cables and… Some.. sort of great crane is currently pouring.. gold coins into a slot on The Brass's upper back-.

Blood and treasure, and the corrupt link between arms lobbyists and the M.I.C., got it. Alan smashes the crane with a construct mallet, causing coins to fall all across Washington and sending the unbound worms into a feeding frenzy. I see one worm catch three coins in its mouth, and it starts to grow even as it swallows.

"…bled you out, you damnyankee!"

Sam comes flying backwards out of the entrance the worms were using to refuel The Brass, landing on back with a huff of exhaled air. He starts pushing himself up at once as Johnny Reb marches out after him, fists balled.

"A million gallons for defense, but not one drop in tribute."

Sam doesn't look entirely steady as they square up, and given how uncharacteristically unkempt Sam is at the moment they actually look pretty similar.

I form a construct railgun.

They'll look similar until I shoot Johnny's head off, anyway. Load crumbler round and fire.

Compliance.

The gun hums and Johnny's head explodes.

Sam frowns slightly as I come in to land.

"Are you alright?"

"I've been better, but nothing a weekend rest cure won't fix up."

"Okay." I walk towards Johnny's body. "Let me just check-."

A chain whips out and slaps my railgun round aside with one swing wrapping itself around my torso again! Johnny's body rises to its-. His feet, his head regrowing as I watch.

"The South shall rise. You have struck me down and ah have become more powerful."

Sam runs at him. "One free man is worth-."

Johnny ducks and punches, and Sam goes flying backwards into my hole as Johnny's fist finds his gut.

Right. Crumbler gauntlets, squeeze.

The chains starts decaying, but it's all too slow. Johnny looks at me with a snarl, then drops the chain and jogs after Sam. "No more playing around. I'm gunna finish you for good." He reaches down to grab Sam around the throat with his right hand, hauling him up. "You-."

Clang!

"AGH!"

Johnny staggers back, hands covering his face where… Sam just hit him with his own branding iron. But he's still not exactly looking fresh, so-.

There's a colossal krumph behind us as The Brass hits the ground, while the eagle swoops out of the tunnel and grabs Johnny's hat in both talons!

Maximum power to motive systems. Brute force the chains!

Snap! Snapsnapsnap!

"Faihn!" Johnny turns and runs back towards the Memorial, which shimmers as he starts to fade from sight. "Another taihm!"

"Chains."

The remains of the chain he used on me fly at Johnny like a bolas and make him collapse to the ground as Dr. Balewa walks out of the Memorial.

"I know those well."

Handlewithcare · Jun 7, 2022

Hehehe the black Uber-Sorcerer will fuck up the personification of the South. Fun times > : )

The Froggy Ninja · Jun 7, 2022

Mr Zoat said:
"Chains."

The remains of the chain he used on me fly at Johnny like a bolas and make him collapse to the ground as Dr. Balewa walks out of the Memorial.

"I know those well."

Fuck yeah.

Cuchulin · Jun 7, 2022

megrisvernin said:
While certainly those invested in slavery as a system wanted to perpetuate it, there were a large number of applications of slaves in skilled trades like brickmasons or blacksmiths and so on.
In cases where you can't just sell slaves themselves as commodities to work did they break, like in heavy agricultural work, use tends to shift to trades that are less backbreaking. Just out of financial sense. Slavery probably would persist for quite a while even if it was prevented from spreading to other states.

True, but the South's economy was mostly agricultural and based heavily on cash crops. Which was why people talk about "King Cotton".
Also skilled slaves were rare (especially later on) partly because they didn't want slaves to have skills or education, passing laws against them learning to read or preaching the gospel. What's more there was enough demand for more slaves before the civil war to help fuel the demand for the fugitive slave act as well as various laws that caused the enslavement of freedmen, not to mention the risky and quite illegal bringing in of more slaves from outside the US.

NightmareWarden · Jun 7, 2022

Handlewithcare said:
Hehehe the black Uber-Sorcerer will fuck up the personification of the South. Fun times > : )

One who is older than the United States to boot.

I am glad Tye Longshadow (Apache Chief and Long Shadow, but for Young Justice), Red Arrow and Arsenal weren't dragged into this realm. Whatever miseries this place has inflicted on the native peoples of North America would be even more depressing than the reality. Not something I'd enjoy reading. shuddders

Darko · Jun 7, 2022

Mr Zoat said:
slide down the ramp

"slides"

Mr Zoat said:
and roll straight into a pile

"rolls"

Mr Zoat said:
But my rings do, and they're kind enough to share it with me.

Give it to Rocket to view later on.

Mr Zoat said:
On his gurney, Sam's eyes flutter open with a low groan. "Nrgggh show Dickie how tricky I can...

So that's what he was planning on doing before all of this.

Mr Zoat said:
where Johnny Reb banded

"branded"

Mr Zoat said:
out, your damnyankee!"

"you damn Yankee"

Mr Zoat said:
"I've been better, but nothing a weekend rest cure won't fix up.

Don't forget listening to patriotic songs.

Mr Zoat said:
"Chains."

The remains of the chain he used on me fly at Johnny like a bolas and make him collapse to the ground as Dr. Balewa walks out of the Memorial.

"I know those well

Ohh, fuck yes.

It's not quite as beautiful as Rocket doing it, but it's still a sight of beauty.

Now I'm wondering about what deal he made with Demon John.

Bud-E · Jun 7, 2022

Mr Zoat said:
A chain whips out and slaps my railgun round aside with one swing wrapping itself around my torso again! Johnny's body rises to its-. His feet, his head regrowing as I watch.

"The South shall rise. You have stuck me down and ah have become more powerful."

Is this a power he has? Every time Johnny Reb dies he comes back more powerful or is he just saying that?

iamnuff · Jun 7, 2022

Noteworthy that Alan had a lot less trouble cutting those chains than Paul did. Hope over greed, I suppose.

Rebu · Jun 7, 2022

iamnuff said:
Noteworthy that Alan had a lot less trouble cutting those chains than Paul did. Hope over greed, I suppose.

Well, if the whole place is made from corruption, that makes sense.

Darko · Jun 7, 2022

iamnuff said:
Noteworthy that Alan had a lot less trouble cutting those chains than Paul did. Hope over greed, I suppose.

Greed is a part of political corruption, while hope isn't, so it makes sense.

Also, Reb's whole slavery thing had a lot of greed involved, but it required a lack of hope from the slaves to keep functioning.

Chojin Patriarch · Jun 7, 2022

Mr Zoat said:
7th November 2012
Roughly 11:02 GMT -5

"Yaagh!"

Still wrapped in chains, I have no clear view of it as Johnny Reb falls into the newly dug pit, slide down the ramp of earth and rubble and roll straight into a pile of worms. But my rings do, and they're kind enough to share it with me. The worms squirm and slime, one vomiting at him-

Gee, couldn't happen to a nastier fellow. Thank goodness the worms are so dumb that they'll attack anything that upsets them. So, that's one threat more or less out of OL's way. Now for those chains...

"Goddamn worthless-!"

-and covering his right arm and the right side of his chest with acid bile.

Burn, baby, burn.

"Ah!"

He drops his branding iron and tears off his coat and shirt, tossing the smouldering garments to the ground to reveal the reddening skin beneath. More than human toughness, but not invulnerability.

Handy. Probably because he's not the real embodiment of America, just borrowing a bit of his power.

Extricate myself.

I create a circular saw construct and use it to try to slice through the outside of the chains. It dies immediately, the orange light sucked into the metal and relayed to The Brass. X-ionised saw instead, try that. It's.. cutting, but far more slowly than it should through iron links.

Magic bullshit, of course. Probably forged of some conceptual rubbish like 'the iron bonds of duty' or some such.

On his gurney, Sam's eyes flutter open with a low groan. "Nrgggh show Dickie how tricky I can..."

He blinks and focuses.

Dun-dun-DUN! Someone cue up a kickass theme song, because someone's about to get their ass kicked.

"Snivelling Worms, I don't need to unchain a million to deal with you."

The straps binding him glow red, blue and white-. Yeah, he's got that. My saw is almost through the first link, but I think that I'm entangled in a chain net rather than-.

Heh, you can almost hear the anthem blaring around him.

"BRASS! PULL THE VARMINT IN!"

Ah, gr-ah!

And Sam can't get his shit together soon enough, it seems.

The Brass pulls fast, pressing me into the chains as Washington shoots beneath me. I lose my constructs-.

"Eagle!"

Yeah, Sam's gonna need a good dose of Freedom to be ready for this shitstorm...

There's a squeaking noise, like a rubbing wheel being dragged by degrees across a linoleum floor, as the eagle flies past at high speed.

"Uncle Sam is under the Lincoln Memorial! Along with Johnny-!"

I think Roger already knows. He can probably smell the apple pie.

Oooff!

Right into the side of The Brass, a blue boxing glove slamming into him somewhere above me. He doesn't move, but hopefully without Uncle Sam's corrupted blood to fuel him he'll be a little more manageable.

As if it'd have one power source.

"Paul, you need a hand?!"

"Would be nice!"

A rare moment for OL, being the one needing backup instead of being on top of things...

Clack!

Yes, that's a link. Between the cutting and the force of the impact, it's given up the ghost. Unfortunately I'm too surrounded by chains that I can't make another saw without the drain draining me dry. Ring?

One down, 49 more to go (for symbolism!)

Forty seven percent remaining.

Well, there's my knife-

Guessing the drain slowed down a little while he was sitting still back there.

KABOOM!

-and damn that's loud! Okay, I've got just enough range of movement to… Draw it. Angle's awkward, but if I push it like that I think I'm-.

Ow, right in the ears.

Clank.

I drop, chains falling away as I half-fall half-slide down The Brass's armoured back, the construct metal cutter Alan used to free me floating over my head as I-

Well, be sure to buy him a beer after this is done, for that save.

Forty five percent remaining.

-try to-

Guessing sheer proximity of the thing is futzing up his power a bit.

Forty one percent remaining.

-establish an environmental shield but the patch on my helmet where Johnny Reb banded is glowing and the orange light just isn't forming and-

Looks like a symbolic link. Best to ditch it.

Thirty eight percent remaining.

-my armour's flight system is damaged and I'm struggling to get the chains off me because this doesn't look like-

And this is why you keep a backup for the backup of the backup, OL.

Thirty five percent remaining.

-a survivable fall.

Oooh, this is gonna smart, isn't it?

"Hate to nag, but-!"

Clank.

There's a noise like a carslide at a salvage yard as the chain net falls apart around me and-

Thank you, Alan!

Thirty one percent remaining.

-I tear my helmet from my head and chuck it aside as I'm free again, environmental shield reappearing as I slow my descent and swap to my heavy armour.

Now, time to introduce Mister Armoured Boot to bad little Johnny Butthead.

"Thank you! Back of the legs!"

I use the armour's flight systems-

Because one of the natural weak points of any walking mech is the knee joint.

"You get back here!"

-to zoom over Washington, heading for the Lincoln Memorial as The Brass shouts impotently in my wake. I see the eagle dart into the hole I made for Johnny Reb-.

Up yours, Tin man. Important things to deal with here.

A strange jangling sound makes me viff to the left, but a quick look behind me shows me that Alan has cut through the blood cables and… Some.. sort of great crane is currently pouring.. gold coins into a slot on The Brass's upper back-.

Blood and treasure, and the corrupt link between arms lobbyists and the M.I.C., got it. Alan smashes the crane with a construct mallet, causing coins to fall all across Washington and sending the unbound worms into a feeding frenzy. I see one worm catch three coins in its mouth, and it starts to grow even as it swallows.

Because of course they love to get rich.

"…bled you out, your damnyankee!"

Sam comes flying backwards out of the entrance the worms were using to refuel The Brass, landing on back with a huff of exhaled air. He starts pushing himself up at once as Johnny Reb marches out after him, fists balled.

Civil War round 2: The battle of Washington! Fight!

"A million gallons for defence, but not one drop in tribute."

Sam doesn't look entirely steady as they square up, and given how uncharacteristically unkempt Sam is at the moment they actually look pretty similar.

Guessing he's down to his shirtsleeves. And Johnny ditched his fancy coat back in the hole, so...

I form a construct railgun.

They'll look similar until I shoot Johnny's head off, anyway. Load crumbler round and fire.

Would it be crass to give him a 'Here's one for Lincoln!' as you shoot?

Compliance.

The gun hums and Johnny's head explodes.

Ah, the chunky salsa. Don't count him out yet, I doubt that's the worst he's ever suffered.

Sam frowns slightly as I come in to land.

"Are you alright?"

"I've been better, but nothing a weekend rest cure won't fix up."

With patriotic songs and baseball games on the radio and all the apple pie you can eat?

"Okay." I walk towards Johnny's body. "Let me just check-."

A chain whips out and slaps my railgun round aside with one swing wrapping itself around my torso again! Johnny's body rises to its-. His feet, his head regrowing as I watch.

Hopefully not as close a likeness to Sam, at least.

"The South shall rise. You have stuck me down and ah have become more powerful."

Sam runs at him. "One free man is worth-."

Misquoting 'Star Wars'? Bad form, jackass.

Johnny ducks and punches, and Sam goes flying backwards into my hole as Johnny's fist finds his gut.

Right. Crumbler gauntlets, squeeze.

Time to spank a good old boy...

The chains starts decaying, but it's all too slow. Johnny looks at me with a snarl, then drops the chain and jogs after Sam. "No more playing around. I'm gunna finish you for good." He reaches down to grab Sam around the throat with his right hand, hauling him up. "You-."

Clang!

A dream doesn't die that easily, hillbilly Johhny...

"AGH!"

Johnny staggers back, hands covering his face where… Sam just hit him with his own branding iron. But he's still not exactly looking fresh, so-.

Nothing a quick round of 'Yankee Doodle' won't fix up.

There's a colossal krumph behind us as The Brass hits the ground, while the eagle swoops out of the tunnel and grabs Johnny's hat in both talons!

Maximum power to motive systems. Brute force the chains!

And the tide turns.

Snap! Snapsnapsnap!

"Faihn!" Johnny turns and runs back towards the Memorial, which shimmers as he starts to fade from sight. "Another taihm!"

Oh, no you don't.

"Chains."

The remains of the chain he used on me fly at Johnny like a bolas and make him collapse to the ground as Dr. Balewa walks out of the Memorial.

"I know those well."

Ah, some nice, satisfying role reversal.

Amazing how quickly things turn around in the heat of battle. Looks like Doctor Mist got some useful intel from the Demon Constantine, then. Now, it's just a matter of figuring out what to do with Johnny. I doubt they can mess with the Brass, since it's a part of this place. And at least they tracked down Uncle Sam, even if John Constantine is still nowhere to be found...

Coltsguy · Jun 7, 2022

Chojin Patriarch said:
Amazing how quickly things turn around in the heat of battle. Looks like Doctor Mist got some useful intel from the Demon Constantine, then. Now, it's just a matter of figuring out what to do with Johnny. I doubt they can mess with the Brass, since it's a part of this place. And at least they tracked down Uncle Sam, even if John Constantine is still nowhere to be found...

Eh, I almost believe that he's guiding them to these problems on purpose to fix them.

Stsword · Jun 7, 2022

Bud-E said:
Is this a power he has? Every time Johnny Reb dies he comes back more powerful or is he just saying that?

Yes and no.

It was established that national zeitgeists like him are reborn when the country changes, that Captain Nazi stopped being the legitimate embodiment of Germany a while ago, but his existence was artificially prolonged.

Uncle Sam started off as Minute Man, then Brother Jonathon, Johnny Reb/Billy Yank, and in modern times had a stint as Patriot in the comics.

So as long as the Confederacy still exists spiritually, Reb's natural response will be to reform.

I suspect he'd find it far less convenient if they weren't in the seat of his power though.

My initial gut response for getting rid of him? Sam imitating Paul a bit and eating him.

Kind of like Golcanda in VtM, a vampire can achieve enlightenment after admitting that their Beast is not a separate entity but an aspect of themselves.

Sam is not interested in embodying America's darkness. Can't really say I blame him there. But I suspect that denial is a good part of how Reb managed to still exist as a separate individual.

Mr Zoat · Jun 7, 2022

Darko said:
"slides"
"rolls"
"branded"

Thank you, corrected.

"you damn Yankee"

No, if Harry Turtledove taught me anything it's that 'damnyankee' is a single word.

Ohh, fuck yes.

It's not quite as beautiful as Rocket doing it, but it's still a sight of beauty.

Why?

Dr. Balewa has never been a U.S. citizen. In his youth he owned plenty of slaves, though he's glad that the custom has largely vanished from the world.

ForeverShogo · Jun 7, 2022

If I recall, one of the contributing factors to slavery becoming profitable enough to last as long as it did was the invention of the cotton gin.

I'd always heard that it was becoming increasingly unprofitable to the point that, perhaps out of wishful thinking, people suggested it might have been ended peacefully simply because it wouldn't be seen as worthwhile to continue. Then the cotton gin became a thing and made it so much easier to process cotton that it became a massively profitable crop. Which in turn caused cotton to become so dominant in the southern states that it was called King Cotton.

Thus the value of slave labor went from a decline to a boom.

But yes, to echo earlier sentiments, the US Civil War was absolutely about preserving slavery as an institution. The states' rights shit is just stupid bullshit spun as part of the lost cause myth.

Darko · Jun 7, 2022

Stsword said:
Sam is not interested in embodying America's darkness. Can't really say I blame him there. But I suspect that denial is a good part of how Reb managed to still exist as a separate individual

The first step to a recovery is admitting that you have a problem.

Mr Zoat said:
Why?

Dr. Balewa has never been a U.S. citizen. In his youth he owned plenty of slaves, though he's glad that the custom has largely vanished from the world

I was referring to the fact that a black man managed to finally bear Reb, which is likely to cause Reb no small amount of grief.

Darko · Jun 7, 2022

Chojin Patriarch said:
Would it be crass to give him a 'Here's one for Lincoln!' as you shoot?

Now I can't help but imagine Sam calling out his attacks like All-Might.

Old Knife · Jun 7, 2022

Mr Zoat said:
How brave do I look?

Your avatar looks dumb. Which incidentally is the inverse of the "I'm crazy not stupid."
It leads me to believe that you are hinting at an affirmative.

Old Knife · Jun 7, 2022

Mr Zoat said:
The remains of the chain he used on me fly at Johnny like a bolas and make him collapse to the ground as Dr. Balewa walks out of the Memorial.

"I know those well."

It would be even more hilarious if he kept slaves before and insults Johnny for both his implementation of control and the use of such an outdated mode of thinking in the first place.

w34v3r · Jun 7, 2022

Mr Zoat said:
"Perhaps the issue is one the difference in culture on the other side of the Atlantic. Allow me to illuminate the matter."

Ok I'm not sure what the intent was here, but the word 'one' reads awkwardly here.

Tzeentch · Jun 7, 2022

Handlewithcare said:
Hehehe the black Uber-Sorcerer will fuck up the personification of the South. Fun times > : )

Hopefully a NEW personification of The South will take Johnny's place.

Like a Southern Grandma, perhaps....

dw7thdoctor · Jun 7, 2022

I wonder what Uncle Sam will think of all the changes that happen to America since was trapped. Like all the magic innovation that has happened the things Paul changed and the fallout from the Sheeda War.

w34v3r · Jun 7, 2022

dw7thdoctor said:
I wonder what Uncle Sam will think of all the changes that happen to America since was trapped. Like all the magic innovation that has happened the things Paul changed and the fallout from the Sheeda War.

SAM: ABOUT TIME YOU PEOPLE PULLED YOUR HEADS FAR ENOUGH OUT OF YOUR OWN ASSHOLES TO READ A DAMNED NEWSPAPER!

jasonh23761 · Jun 7, 2022

NightmareWarden said:
One who is older than the United States to boot.

I am glad Tye Longshadow (Apache Chief and Long Shadow, but for Young Justice), Red Arrow and Arsenal weren't dragged into this realm. Whatever miseries this place has inflicted on the native peoples of North America would be even more depressing than the reality. Not something I'd enjoy reading. shuddders

Wind River was one of those movies I had a legitimately hard time getting through. Al Jazeera also ran an excellent series on the MMIW (phenomenon seems too blase for an issue with that level of gravitas) occurrences in British Columbia.

Mr Zoat · Jun 7, 2022

w34v3r said:
Ok I'm not sure what the intent was here, but the word 'one' reads awkwardly here.

Thank you, corrected.

Tzeentch said:
Hopefully a NEW personification of The South will take Johnny's place.

Like a Southern Grandma, perhaps....

Nope. Johnny managed to hang on, but that's it.

woweed · Jun 7, 2022

Nervaqus987 said:
Alright, so I just ran through and hunted down a few documents from that time.

Slavery was indeed a bigger motivating factor than I had been led to believe.

Shows me for trusting in my education, I suppose.

The only document I found that supported the States Rights agenda that I was taught was South Carolina's Declarations of the Causes of Secession.

And even that says:

We affirm that these ends for which this Government was instituted have been defeated, and the Government itself has been made destructive of them by the action of the non-slaveholding States. Those States have assume the right of deciding upon the propriety of our domestic institutions; and have denied the rights of property established in fifteen of the States and recognized by the Constitution; they have denounced as sinful the institution of slavery; they have permitted open establishment among them of societies, whose avowed object is to disturb the peace and to eloign the property of the citizens of other States. They have encouraged and assisted thousands of our slaves to leave their homes; and those who remain, have been incited by emissaries, books and pictures to servile insurrection.

Also, can I just say, i'm kinda sad Sam's return didn't happen on page 1776. THE SYMBOLISM!

Darko · Jun 7, 2022

woweed said:
Also, can I just say, i'm kinda sad Sam's return didn't happen on page 1776. THE SYMBOLISM!

Don't fret, we may still see him leave the Badlands on page 1776.

Sordid Snake · Jun 7, 2022

Karnven said:
If you consider that 'phallic' what the fuck is Big Ben then?

A Clockwork dick?

"It's SYNTH DETECTIVE, Jackass!"

kerleth · Jun 7, 2022

Nervaqus987 said:
That's a pretty intense oversimplification of things.

Certainly, slavery was one of the bones of contention* that led to the formation of the Confederacy. But more than anything, it was a matter of States Rights vs Federal Rights.

I know you already said that this statement isn't quite accurate, but I wanted to add something here.

1)Kudos to you for being willing to change your mind immediately when presented with evidence you were wrong. Not only that, but seeking out evidence to verify for yourself whether you are right or wrong. Too often people just stop caring about the evidence in that situation. I know I'm just some rando on the internet, but respect and praise, for what it's worth.

2) There's also a really good slam-dunk that flat out disproves the argument that it was really about states rights and not slavery. The confederate constitution. "No Bill of attainder, or ex post facto law, or law denying or impairing the right of property in negro slaves shall be passed." There are other points where it talks about the specifics of importing slaves vs "homegrown" which work out to a money racket giving those who already owned slaves in the confederate states a privileged position vs importers of new foreign slaves. A sort of Slavery-Industrial Complex if you will, that favored those who were writing it vs any up and comers.

Whether the above quote only prevented the national government of the confederacy from passing anti-slave laws, or would also have prevented an individual state state from doing so as well, would have been an argument for confederate constitutional lawyers. However, there is another point in there that basically says under no circumstances can a lawfully owned slave in one area of the confederacy be freed in another area of the confederacy. So even if they let a state make enslaving new slaves illegal, that state would be prohibited from freeing someone's slaves who moved there from another confederate state, even though they now lived in the new state and were subject to it's laws. Which makes slavery de facto legal everywhere in the confederacy as long as it was legal anywhere in the confederacy.

The fact that the states rights were curtailed to make sure slavery would definitely be a thing in the confederate constitution shows very clearly whether the priority was states rights or slavery. Also, it's kinda cool that we can look at the confederate constitution ourselves online.

With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Connoisseur.

Dedicated ragequitter

Versed in the lewd.

The Blade Will Never Die

Versed in the lewd.

Versed in the lewd.

Connoisseur.

Stand up so I can push you down!

Connoisseur.

hey, little Anna, you're the one

Connoisseur.

Veteran Lurker

Colts fan. Anime fan. Breast and back fan.

Versed in the lewd.

Dedicated ragequitter

Not too sore, are you?

Connoisseur.

Connoisseur.

Not too sore, are you?

Not too sore, are you?

Versed in the lewd.

Versed in the lewd.

Getting sticky.

Versed in the lewd.

Not too sore, are you?

Dedicated ragequitter

Know what you're doing yet?

Connoisseur.

(Verified Viper)

Getting out there.

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