With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

[Bud-E]

I know next to nothing about the setting. I've probably seen more porn of it than actual animation.

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Was it good porn?

 

[Mr Zoat]

Was it good porn?

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I don't know the characters well enough to say.

Any chances for an alternate Paul in Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles

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No, because there wouldn't be any reason for in to be in New York, and if he wasn't in New York how would anyone know he was in that setting?

or Magic The Gathering?

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I did have an idea for a story set on Terisiare after the Apocalypse War. But it isn't an SI story.

Also I know you said that you wouldn't do a Paul in Star Wars because you refuse to use the new Disney Canon and you can't remember much of the Legends Timeline, but are there any other reasons you wouldn't do it?

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The Star Wars setting is uplift-proof and there's no one there who could make a Central Power Battery.

 

[Chaoswind]

A TTG comic had a picture so I presume the Teen Titans League lineup is basically the same.

Seems a bit influenced by the JL cartoon- Bats, Supes, WW, MM, Stewart, Hawkwoman, Flash, Aquaman, Black Canary, Captain Atom, Atom, Zatanna, Supergirl, and Mary Marvel.

So between Aquaman with his hook hand and Hawkwoman with her Nth metal spiked mace, and I'm not sure how concerned they are about fatalities. It's not like hard metal sharp points are known for stun settings.

I do suspect they'd want them to dial it back to a dull roar though, so I imagine it would depend on how much Red and his wife are willing to not act like they are in a live action Mortal Kombat game.

Worse comes to worse they can form their own team.

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Raúl is in the original show, not the Go crap.

In the original the Teen Titans went global first with Bruce Wayne and other philanthropists giving monetary support. The older heroes did exist, but they made the League much after the Titans went global first and that changes the plot calculus by a significant bit.

Raúl and Black Fire being there to handle Trigon when almost everyone else got turned to stone or got killed also helps them immensely.

I am not saying the League isn't going to have reservations, I am saying they are also unlikely to get rejected because in this post Trigon recruitment pitch, Raúl and Black Fire being Titans affiliates/adjacent makes them the senior party in this interview.

 

[jonasquinn]

He's obsessive, single-minded, and deeply unwilling to consider compromise or alternative solutions. More than once characters have had to warn Paul off from doing something deeply stupid because his first thought is to remove the problem, by force if necessary.

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I would actually argue that Paul is one of the people most willing to accept compromise, he's just very aware of what he is and is not willing to accept and perfectly aware of how far he is willing to go in pursuit of what he wants

His unswerving obsession with the concept of the Uplift developed to the extent it seems to have taken over most of his life.

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I mean it is literally his life's work and that can also be said for pretty much every superhero

He constantly bounces around from one project to the next, has tremendous control freak tendencies and/or extreme difficulty accepting handing tasks off to others to the extent vacations make him uncomfortable, reoccurring discomfort with the idea of disorder, and so on and so on.

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This gets brought up a lot when people critique Paul buts it's just objectively untrue, he's constantly handing over authority and control of his projects to other people

He created an Atlantean think tank and left Sephtian in charge of it, he started a technological revolution and left Ted in charge of that and he specifically broke someone out of prison because he felt that they'd be a better leader of the organisation he'd just started than he was

 

[The Unaligned Player]

and deeply unwilling to consider compromise or alternative solutions

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Aside from this, I don't really see much of a problem.

 

[Vaermina]

Been a while since we saw this Paul, I'm very glad we get to see his married life with Blackfire and that we learn their son's name, but what would Alikand'r's name be in english? As for their decision to join the Justice League, poor Blue Beetle really is regretting giving this interview. Any new alternate Pauls on the way by any chance?

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Pretty sure his name in English is Alexander.

 

[Stsword]

Raúl is in the original show, not the Go crap.

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Yes, which I know, which you would know if you had bothered to read the literally very first sentence in my post instead of getting distracted in your eagerness to correct an imaginary mistake.

It's not even a long sentence. "A TTG comic had a picture so I presume the Teen Titans League lineup is basically the same."

You somehow got bored and wandered off after reading the first third of the first sentence.

A truly impressive lack of follow through. Kudos.

 

[Chaoswind]

Yes, which I know, which you would know if you had bothered to read the literally very first sentence in my post instead of getting distracted in your eagerness to correct an imaginary mistake.

It's not even a long sentence. "A TTG comic had a picture so I presume the Teen Titans League lineup is basically the same."

You somehow got bored and wandered off after reading the first third of the first sentence.

A truly impressive lack of follow through. Kudos.

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Because you were arguing I point I didn't make and honestly do not care about. The league lineup doesn't matter, the circumstances that gave form to their organization does. Raúl and Black Fire were Titan affiliated before the League was made and that is going to carry more weight into this job interview than the current membership of the league.

The league is going to have Superman, Batman, Flash, and Wonder Woman by default. Aqualad being a Titan likely means Aquaman is also a member, same with Speedy and Green Arrow.

Considering their sidekicks made the Titans because they were dissatisfied with their mentors and their effectiveness and the sore point of most of the adults failing to deal with Trigon, I don't see the league reject Raúl and black fire outright, they will have reservations, but that is all it's going to happen because the league gets more than two murder hobos if they recruit them.

 

[Whenever Possible]

So it's been several years for Raul, three years since the last time we saw him, iirc, not sure exactly how many years since he was dropped into TT, which might be why he's more... calm? stable? settled? than other Pauls.

 

[BrotherofaStudio]

No, because there wouldn't be any reason for in to be in New York, and if he wasn't in New York how would anyone know he was in that setting?

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Oh well

I did have an idea for a story set on Terisiare after the Apocalypse War. But it isn't an SI story.

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Alright then

The Star Wars setting is uplift-proof and there's no one there who could make a Central Power Battery.

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Hmm, that's an unfortunately good point about the Central Power Battery. But I question it being uplift-proof.

 

[Mr Zoat]

But I question it being uplift-proof.

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I'm pretty confident about the uplift-proof thing. To say nothing of Mon Montha gleefully turning the New Republic back into a dictatorship.

It might be kind of interesting to try tracking down the time machine that brought the first human colonists to the setting, however.

 

[Cuchulin]

Dude they didn't let Lobo join.
Well I think Kid Lobo was a member of Comic Teen Titans as some point but Teen Titans is insane.
Also of the main League only Batman won't kill for sure (unless is Darkseid). Wonder Woman, Superman and some of the Flashes will kill if needed.
Also a rage ring and Super Tamarean powers would have a hard time dealing with Superman, much less the main League members together.
What they are doing is like if the Joker walked to the League and asked to join. Heck at this point they basically have killed more people that the local Joker!

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Lobo is an Arsehole that doesn't play well with others and killed every other member of his species. Raul is a Rage enlightened Red Lantern and father who wants make the world a better place, while Blackfire has calmed down a lot and is somewhat reformed.

I feel like they should have at least two more...
For science's sake...

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Nah! Have Robin and Starfire do it instead.

 

[BrotherofaStudio]

I'm pretty confident about the uplift-proof thing. To say nothing of Mon Montha gleefully turning the New Republic back into a dictatorship.

It might be kind of interesting to try tracking down the time machine that brought the first human colonists to the setting, however.

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I don't agree with your opinion of Mon Mothma turning the New Republic into a dictatorship, while it is true I haven't familiarized myself with all of Legends after Endor, I don't recall ever hearing about something like that other than Garm Bel Iblis being worried at first only to join up again during the Thrawn campaign. However I don't feel like getting into another argument like we did with Kuvira and agree to disagree instead. As for the time travel thing, as I recall that was never considered canon since the story wasn't actually published. But if you ever do change your mind I do have a suggestion of how Paul could gain power for his ring, though it is admitedly a long shot, drain power from Abeloth directly, siphon it out maybe.

 

[Chaoswind]

Paul could go the Nihilus route and charge the ring by consuming souls, force sensitives would provide more charge and he can probably learn to drain ambient energy.

But the premise can be altered, Paul it's not obligated to start with an orange ring, the one in star wars could start with a blue one as blaul did. Giving the local Paul a super weapon, with stringent charge limits.

 

[Mr Zoat]

I don't agree with your opinion of Mon Mothma turning the New Republic into a dictatorship, while it is true I haven't familiarized myself with all of Legends after Endor, I don't recall ever hearing about something like that other than Garm Bel Iblis being worried at first only to join up again during the Thrawn campaign. However I don't feel like getting into another argument like we did with Kuvira and agree to disagree instead.

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As for the time travel thing, as I recall that was never considered canon since the story wasn't actually published. But if you ever do change your mind I do have a suggestion of how Paul could gain power for his ring, though it is admittedly a long shot, drain power from Abeloth directly, siphon it out maybe.

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I never read the stuff with the Abeloth.

 

[Darko]

No, because there wouldn't be any reason for in to be in New York, and if he wasn't in New York how would anyone know he was in that setting

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If it isn't in New York then I guess it's possible to add various characters or factions from the wider TMNT universe, like the Utroms, Triceratons etc

Granted, I'm mostly familiar with the 2003 TMNT, so I don't know all that much about the wider universe in the other shows.

The Star Wars setting is uplift-proof and there's no one there who could make a Central Power Battery.

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You could just go the route of using the Force to charge the ring the same way your Warhammer SI's use the Warp.

As for it being uplift-proof, there are various planets, species and cultures that could use help, do that's not necessarily true.

Also I'm kinda seeing a version of Paul helping Force users better balance themselves so that they don't go the crazy Sith route.

 

[Ardy]

You could just go the route of using the Force to charge the ring the same way your Warhammer SI's use the Warp.

As for it being uplift-proof, there are various planets, species and cultures that could use help, do that's not necessarily true.

Also I'm kinda seeing a version of Paul helping Force users better balance themselves so that they don't go the crazy Sith route.

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Why would Paul care about force users? They can't meaningfully help anything save as diplomats (sometimes), assassins, and countering other force users. If he just wants to uplift things with non-slavery based droids and post-scarcity stuff like Dyson Shells they're pretty much useless.

It's a bit like Named in a Practical Guide to Evil. During a big war you can send them out to kill particularly dangerous foes, but they don't hold ground, grow more food, ship that food, or make more soldiers. In peacetime they're law enforcement at best and that's where Paul wants to actually do stuff.

 

[Assblaster5000]

Why would Paul care about force users? They can't meaningfully help anything save as diplomats (sometimes), assassins, and countering other force users. If he just wants to uplift things with non-slavery based droids and post-scarcity stuff like Dyson Shells they're pretty much useless.

It's a bit like Named in a Practical Guide to Evil. During a big war you can send them out to kill particularly dangerous foes, but they don't hold ground, grow more food, ship that food, or make more soldiers. In peacetime they're law enforcement at best and that's where Paul wants to actually do stuff.

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The Force can be used to do a lot more than hit things good or hypnotize people. The first hyperdrives in the galaxy were made by enchanting some machines with The Dark Side after The Rakatan Infinite Empire saw some spacewhales go FTL, which is the tech everyone else used to figure it out, and before that a group of Light Side users set up what basically amounts to a Stargate network. The Force can also be used to help grow crops, lets you see the future, literally timetravel, alter the genetics of things to an absurd degree, and so, so much more.

It's just magic, but in space, something Paul has expressed a lot of interest in from every timeline we've seen. And the impressive stuff you can do with it is damn near main-line comic level for both DC and Marvel. Thinking of The Force as anything other than the single most versatile, potent tool in Star Wars (and honestly a lot of fiction) is doing it a massive disservice.

 

[Windona]

Fun fact, since TMNT is owned by WB, they could cross over with DC easily. Though then again the Turtles do share an origin with Matt Murdock.

Eh, I just take it that Zoat isn't interested in Star Wars like that.

 

[BrotherofaStudio]

The Force can be used to do a lot more than hit things good or hypnotize people. The first hyperdrives in the galaxy were made by enchanting some machines with The Dark Side after The Rakatan Infinite Empire saw some spacewhales go FTL, which is the tech everyone else used to figure it out, and before that a group of Light Side users set up what basically amounts to a Stargate network. The Force can also be used to help grow crops, lets you see the future, literally timetravel, alter the genetics of things to an absurd degree, and so, so much more.

It's just magic, but in space, something Paul has expressed a lot of interest in from every timeline we've seen. And the impressive stuff you can do with it is damn near main-line comic level for both DC and Marvel. Thinking of The Force as anything other than the single most versatile, potent tool in Star Wars (and honestly a lot of fiction) is doing it a massive disservice.

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I completely agree with you on that on the matter of Paul getting interested in Force powered technology. As for Mon Mothma Mr Zoat... Okay I will admit you have a point but that would be a good reason for Paul to step in and help the Rebel Alliance/New Republic/Galactic Alliance not fall into that trap though I don't categorize Mon Mothma or the majority of the Rebels as being villains. As for the matter of Abeloth, do you at least know who and what she is even if you haven't read any books where she appears?

 

[Bud-E]

Fun fact, since TMNT is owned by WB, they could cross over with DC easily. Though then again the Turtles do share an origin with Matt Murdock.

Eh, I just take it that Zoat isn't interested in Star Wars like that.

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Did you not know about the several volumes of comic crossover and an animated movie of them together?

 

[Windona]

Did you not know about the several volumes of comic crossover and an animated movie of them together?

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I do, I was referring to the continuity of this fic.

 

[jonasquinn]

Honestly I feel like the most interesting point in Star Wars history for Paul to be dumped into would be the Clone Wars

Its's the most morally complex conflict in the setting, Paul would be able to interact with both the deeply corrupt Republic as well as the unfortunately manipulated Separatists and an argument can be made that the structure of the Empire that Palpatine started to put in place around this time is actually better than the Republic

 

[Ardy]

I do, I was referring to the continuity of this fic.

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how about this continuity?

 

[Darko]

Why would Paul care about force users? They can't meaningfully help anything save as diplomats (sometimes), assassins, and countering other force users

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We have seen versions of Paul help people overcome their issues just because he seems to like doing it.

We saw that future version of him help Tai Lung and Azula, even though by your definition they wouldn't be able to meaningfully help with anything.

 

[Someguy Somewhere]

It might be kind of interesting to try tracking down the time machine that brought the first human colonists to the setting, however.

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Never actually stated, and there isn't currently an EU or Canon version of where humans popped up in universe. Humans don't have an excepted homeworld or evolutionary history, but have been around since at least 25,000 years back or so from the films. There's some in universe guess that the Zhell were humans that warred with the Taung (precurrers to what would become the Mandolarians) and Corcuscant was once their world before it got paved over.

In the old EU and like a number of other races humans got slave traded around by a more advanced species, rebelled and reverse engineered hyperdrives from them to get out in the universe, see the old KOTOR storyline for more on that.

The earliest humans you can point out are those that ended up on Tython around 36,453 BBY with all the other force users that some ancient alien pyramid ships abducted to meet up with all the other alien force users to make up the precursor to the jedi.

There was however a start of a draft of a story back in 94, before much of the EU got going, that would have been an origin for a lot of the galaxy at large, and it covered how humans got to the Star wars Galaxy from the milky way...and also was a real strange connect the dots of Lucas's other film work, all making it a strange shared universe with American Graffiti and THX-1138. Something something Colony Ship from Earth, Something Something Hyperspace wormhole through time and space yadda yadda.

So no time machine, so far as we know.

 

[Mr Zoat]

20th November 2012
19:21 GMT -6

I watch the Senate votes as they're tallied, closing my eyes and taking a deep and happy breath as the Bill is finally voted into law. Now it just needs Jon to sign off on it -which he will- and that'll be one piece of madness that no one will ever have to deal with again.
Structural Reform Sublimation
Human-form Luna looks at the screen, then at me, then at the screen. Then she frowns and goes back to looking at me.

"We do not understand."

"I have no reason to doubt your claim and accept it as provisionally true."

I feel her rolling her eyes. "They tally ballots, and that creates new law."

"That is one of the many steps that turns a proposed law into an actual law, yes."

Luna shifts on the settee so she's facing me rather than the screen.

"You have implied frequently that Our sister's centralisation of power is a weakness in the Equestrian state. We suspect that you will enjoy explaining this… Scrum, to Us."

I grin.

"Ah, dear heart, you bring out the pedagogue in me."

"We are not a hart. We are a pony mare, as well you know."

"Well done for spotting the pun opportunity, but I'm wearing a translator. Have you been studying?"

"Linguistics and cultural symbolism are areas with which we are well familiar. In Our youth, the Equestrian language was far less unified than it is today."

"Oh?" I raise my eyebrows in curiosity. "My ring's translation causes me to hear you as speaking an older form of my language at times, but that's all."

"We have the printing press to thank for that. The form of Equestrian spoken in the central regions of the country encompassing the Old Capital, Canterlot and modern Ponyville became the standard form." She looks mildly perturbed. "We dread to imagine Our fate if Mountain Equestrian had become the standard form."

"Still, that's surprisingly little change for a thousand years."

"We have learned in Our time here that ponies are naturally more staid than humans. Mayhap that is why We have been able to make Ourself understood to those who are not historians or linguists. Not that We are complaining. Now: the scrum."

"The 'scrum' on display in the Senate; the smaller of the two legislative bodies of the American government."

She frowns. "They have two legislative bodies."

"Yes."

"Why?"

"That's a bit complicated. Originally, the United States of America was conceived as being an alliance of constituent States. They would have certain principles in common and recognised that some things would have to be done centrally, but the governments of the various States were supposed to be the main unit rather than the Federal Government in the centre. Originally, Senators were appointed by the governments of the States rather than being directly elected by the people of that State as Congressional Representatives are. That was changed as part of the Federal Government's efforts to centralise power by bypassing State governments. Which means that there are two bodies that do the same thing, rather than the two doing slightly different things."

"We… See."

"As is often the case in situations like this, certain parts of the system don't make sense but they're not bad enough to force those involved to agree how to fix them. Now, a couple of weeks ago there was a Presidential Election which returned the sitting president -Jonathan Horne- to office."

"Your ally."

"Yes. But America limits Presidents to two terms of office, and while that law could be changed, he'd… Have to be a lot more popular than he is-"

Even now.

"-to get that to happen. That sort of things looks very self-serving, for obvious reasons."

"Eight years, at most."

"Yes indeed."

She snorts. "We now understand how Our sister's reign seems so strange to the people of this land."

"Having a compulsory departure date means that new ideas have to rise to the surface. It also means that it's easier to get rid of people who make a mess of things without needing some sort of civil war. And since they know that they're going to go, there's a limit for the level of corruption they can get involved in because the next person will probably have a vested interest in ferreting it out and bringing it to wider attention."

"A system built on discord."

"A system which assumes discord. Of course, the system has the problem that as a President approaches the end of their time in office everyone else knows they're on the way out as well, which effectively strips them of a lot of their power. Anyway, Horne's in and has the reins of power for four more years."

And about halfway through that people who want to be President next are going to come to ask for my support… Have to see how it goes. The Democrats won't let anyone like Jon near the nomination papers ever again and the Republicans… I've got no idea who they might nominate now that Knight's missed his shot.

"So what is this ballot in aid of?"

"The passing of the Detention Failure Emergency Act. Essentially, if a prisoner either convicted of a crime which potentially carries the death penalty or a patient held in a mental institution by court order who has been ruled not guilty by reason of insanity on a criminal charge which potentially carried the death penalty escapes custody, they are to be killed. No effort will be made to recapture them, only hunt them down and kill them. It also indemnifies officers who kill such people against prosecution in states which don't have a death penalty."

Wink wink. Nudge nudge.

"Why is such a law required? Are such feats of escapology so common and such crimes so common that this remedy is needed?"

"No, it only applies to a small proportion of the criminal population, but they're so disproportionately murderous that it is actually a problem. Same reason we don't just 'build better prisons'. Some of the people we lock up are just too good at escaping. Imagine… Trying to imprison a pony whose special talent was escaping, and also likes eating pony brains. They're clearly mad and need hospitalisation, but no decent ruler would let them go back to eating their preferred diet as an alternative to killing them."

"That is… Somewhat morbid."

"Okay, imagine that King Sombra managed to pull himself back together and attacked Equestria, conjuring up his umbral buddies to possess random ponies. Do you order the guards to try arresting him, or do you send the bearerherd to Element-blast him back into oblivion?"

"The second."

"And I don't remember anyone saying that Nightmare Moon deserved a chance to live independently. The plan was 'wait one thousand years, then rainbow cannon to the face'."

"We are not Our sister, driven weak-stomached by a millennium of peace. We are aware that Our sister took no efforts to capture 'her' alive." I nod. Fair enough. "You would have her live?"

"No." Uh. "Maybe. The Obsidian Deeps have no light. She could have been happy there, perhaps. But I wouldn't have risked freezing Wilson to death to do it. And now, American law enforcement won't have to either."

"It seems strange to Us that such a thing needs to be codified, though We suppose it flows from having a weaker sovereign. Tell Us more of this land's politics, Our swain, that We may amuse Ourself with their foolishness."

I smile.

"You're going to love the court system."

 

[Darko]

We… See."

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No, you don't, but that's politics for you.

Even politicians barely understand them.

seems to strange to the people

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'so strange'

that We may amusement Ourself

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Not sure because of her way of speaking, but maybe "amuse"

You're going to love the court system

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Oh boy.

 

[Silveraith]

The would have certain principles in common and recognised

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They.

 

[PepeTheFrog]

Hmm. Escaping a super prison or asylum now carries the problem of giving up your right to live. That will curb the escapist's sane enough to reformed while eliminating those insane enough to escape. A perfectly Darwinian solution.