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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Reader mode
Interesting. From a certain point of view, Desire might even be in the right in calling in Paul for a talk here. We know that the oldest three Endless have roles/ duties/ responsibilities. It is very possible the rest do as well, and either we the readers never see them doing their jobs or they they just don't.
So is it possible that Paul has been messing with Desire's turf with his emotion editing?
 
Mr Zoat said:
"So why don't you talk about this amongst yourselves, and I'll pop back in a day or so and find out where you've gotten to?"
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Well... That attempt to be a proper hero sure didn't last long...

Mr Zoat said:
Show me a face.

Ah I see it. They spoke to-.

The face turns to look at me. That's not meant to happen.

"Oh look at you. It's high time we had a little chat, snake man. My place, I think."

That-.

Where am I?
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You know... I feel like we are going to be seeing a lot of this now that Zoat has hit the point that he's powered up his SI so much the only thing left that isn't a complete curbstomp is depowering or multiversal characters.
 
Mr Zoat said:
6th December 2012
15:24 GMT

"So, yeah. That's where I'm coming from. As far as I'm concerned, killing you would be a net positive for the universe, but… My favourite philosophers are a couple called John Stuart Mill and Harriet Taylor. Mill was originally a utilitarian, but one day he had a sort of brainstorm where he realised that even if he was successful in implementing utilitarianism across British society, it wouldn't make him happy."

The Spider Guild elders of Chughraghahh continue cowering in abject terror.
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Yeah, I don't think they're really listening to your lecture, OL. Except maybe to wonder what will make you happy and leave. Though given prior demonstrations, that would probably require their deaths. Hence the fear for their lives...

"I'm not quite like him. I probably would find killing you satisfying, and it would certainly promote the general good better than any other option. But as long as you stop being evil, I'll consider it to be just as good."

I smile pleasantly as I look them in the eyes one after another-.
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Though, if they're unfamiliar enough with anthropomorphic species like humans, it probably looks more like you're baring your teeth.
"D-Does he want to eat us?"

One of the older ones collapses, clutching his thorax. Only those closest to him dare move, and they only lean away slightly.

Orange strands join me to the Spider Guilder currently… Not a heart attack, apparently. Rather, his digestive system has gone into overdrive and his own digestive enzymes have eaten through his stomach. Flip a few biological switches, repair the organs… And render him peacefully unconscious, because it looks like he hasn't been getting enough sleep.
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Like an ulcer, but supercharged, eh? Well, given the state of his planet, I can understand him being stressed.

I suppose there is a bit of an environmental catastrophe going on outside, from where I launched all of their orbital infrastructure at the planet.

"So how about it? You pledge your loyalty to the Queen and reform your society, and I'll help you get back on your feet."
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And I'm sure the Vegan Spider Queen can help them find inoffensive culinary options...

I deposit my patient off to the side.

"What..?" There's a shuffling as his neighbours move away from the speaker. "Whatwillweeat?"
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Well... What do they get out of eating sapient creatures? Is there some spiritual aspect to their consumption that's critical, or is it just that the meat tastes nicer? :rolleyes:

"Farming isn't that complicated. You're perfectly capable of raising animals -non-sophont animals- for slaughter, like most of your neighbours do. Or you can grow meat in vats. You're a technologically sophisticated world, it's well within your abilities."

And I feel-hear it, the sound-shape of their worldstate collapsing as they get it through their head that this isn't a temporary hardship, but the end of the Proper Way Of Doing Things.
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Something many people who've dealt with OL have felt, though not so loudly.

"So why don't you talk about this amongst yourselves, and I'll pop back in a day or so and find out where you've gotten to?"

I
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Oh, I bet the discussion will be sharp. Like, knife-sharp. And heated.

step out,

reappearing on the bridge of a Karaxian battleship serving as part of the interdiction fleet. It seems that the local civilised worlds have used the opportunity I provided to tighten the noose a little. Not enough to end things, but combined with the economic damage I inflicted the local Spider Guild sept is being choked out.
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Ah, I guess they just needed the little push off the starting line to get it in gear. Though OL can get a little pushy...

"I said I'd give them a day to think it over."

There's a sort of diffusion of responsibility-based looking around between the senior officers, then the commanding admiral nods at Lantern Toren.
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'Well? He's one of your types, isn't he? You deal with it.'

"Your… Queen."

"The Queen."
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Ah, the joy of discussing people using ambiguous titles.

"I don't understand."

"My queen, the queen of my home nation, is a woman called Hippolyta. The Queen is a heavily altered Spider Guilder created by the sept in Vega as some sort of prototype living genetic engineering laboratory. Under her leadership they have developed excellent relations with their neighbours, and if they surrender to her instead of you, you won't have to worry about any other sept sending a retaliation fleet this way."
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I hope things have been going well, between her and her Orange Princess. :p

He nods.

"I have reviewed Lantern Green Man's records. She is at the mercy of all of her neighbours and building them ships for free. I doubt that these Spiders will acquiesce to that degree."
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Well, the Vegan fleets do have lots of guns. I'm sure they'll agree with that much intimidation...

"There's always Plan B. But I think I'm going to be optimistic."

"If they do not accept, will you kill them all?"
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On the one hand, do you know how long that would take, especially if you want the planet in usable condition afterwards? On the other... Well, the question of 'do you want the planet in one piece?' still applies.

"I probably should, but, no. Instead, I'll transport them to barely habitable worlds with no intelligent life, and they can relearn civilisation or die in accordance with their own merits."

"There are still a great many people alive on Chughraghahh, as well as their smaller colonies."
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The alternative is destroying all their ships, to maroon them on their planets. That fleet you're overseeing could probably help keep them contained...

"I'm immortal. Or as close as anything can be. I've got the time and the motivation. I'm hopeful that even if I have to start, the rest will see that I'm serious after a few days and concede."

"And then?"
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Clever, especially since you don't really want to be stuck here for years lugging Spider Guilders hither and to.

"And then I'll fly some of the Queen's people over here to oversee the transition to not-evil, while you and your friends park their ships in orbit with their guns pointing down just in case."

The admiral nods. "With no need to occupy their worlds."
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Do you want to get close to them, especially while they're having to learn people are not food? Ever seen those cartoons where a hungry character looks at someone and sees a great, big steak or drumstick? That'll be them towards your troops...

"Occupying worlds is a ridiculous prospect. Once the population gets culturally unified it's basically impossible for a civilisation of a similar level of advancement unless their population is massively higher. I-."

"Admiral!"
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Or their tech level is so much higher that a few troops can massively overpower whole nations. Like, for example, Lanterns.

A deck officer gestures at the tracking… Why is that ship heading for Chughraghahh?

The admiral grabs a handset, looking concerned.
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Oh, dear. Looks like someone's upset they aren't going in hard? Did they have their hearts set on committing some atrocities on people that may have eaten a loved one or two?

"Hesk, what are you doing? We agreed-."

"We should have done it this way long ago. We lacked the resolve, the strength of soul! No longer! End t-."
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Not included: the sound of spittle and froth dripping off their lips as they go kill-crazy rabid...

I frown. That sounded off. He didn't look anything like that orange during the briefing. I turn my head and stare out through the hull towards his position. The Spider Guild still have ships but their planetary shields are gone. If that flotilla burns for the planet and performs a ground strike-.

I see his desires, his martial drives and need to inflict retribution… Even his desire for renown, are massively inflamed compared to what I saw earlier. And it's.. not just him, the rest of his flotilla look similar. Someone has mucked around with them. I could do that but it wasn't me. The Lanterns on Karax for self-study could probably do it, but there's no reason for them to do so. If they wanted to wreck the place then they're more than capable of doing it themselves. Who did this, who did this?
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Ooh, a mystery! But who could manage that sort of impulse manipulation?

"Should we.. intercept?"

I hear the distaste in the admiral's voice. They might be afraid to push the attack, but the idea of acting against someone attacking their ancestral enemy naturally rankles.
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Yeah, that's get you some nasty looks in the Officer's Club later, I suspect. Especially if the people you had to smack down survive.

"I believe that the crew are under an unnatural mental influence. I'm working to counter it. If it comes to it, I'll stop their ships myself. Stand by."

Show me a face.
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It'd have to be someone powerful to manage it on that scale, if every sailor on those ships is experiencing the same drive to punish the Spiders...

Ah I see it. They spoke to-.

The face turns to look at me. That's not meant to happen.
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...Uh-oh. Did he somehow trigger a live feed?

"Oh look at you. It's high time we had a little chat, snake man. My place, I think."

That-.

Where am I?
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:eek: Oh, dear...

Well, well. Desire makes their return to the story. If anyone remembers, the last time we saw them was at the end of the Ophidian's possession of OL. Called him a 'delightful mess', if I remember right. So, what does the androgynous Personification of universal Want, er... Want from OL, I wonder. Has his mucking about been giving them an unpleasant itch somewhere? :p
 
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Mr Zoat said:
I suppose there is a bit of an environmental catastrophe going on outside, from where I launched all of their orbital infrastructure at the planet.

"So how about it? You pledge your loyalty to the Queen and reform your society, and I'll help you get back on your feet."

I deposit my patient off to the side.

"What..?" There's a shuffling as his neighbours move away from the speaker. "Whatwillweeat?"

"Farming isn't that complicated. You're perfectly capable of raising animals -non-sophont animals- for slaughter, like most of your neighbours do. Or you can grow meat in vats. You're a technologically sophisticated world, it's well within your abilities."

And I feel-hear it, the sound-shape of their worldstate collapsing as they get it through their head that this isn't a temporary hardship, but the end of the Proper Way Of Doing Things.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
All this brought to you by an episode titled Uncomplicated Good Works.
 
Mr Zoat said:
the sound-shape of their worldstate collapsing as they get it through their head that this isn't
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'heads'

This doesn't really seem uncomplicated. By throwing infrastructure at the planet he probably killed some innocent livestock. I mean, I think attacking the Spiders is good even despite that, but in no way uncomplicated.

Also, I love the whole 'person in still image turns to look at the viewer'. Always enjoy it. Only thing better is when the person attacks from the image.
 
Just to be clear, Desire is not Avarice. They are related, but it's an important distinction. OL's ring is powered by Avarice, not Desire. You can Desire something because of love or hate or compassion.

The Lights of the rings are unique to a single universe. There are many universes where a different set of Lights are fundamental. But the Endless are a constant across the multiverse.
 
Diraniola said:
What do you mean? I don't see any change of font in this section.
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Take a closer look.

Mr Zoat said:
Small room, seat, Sapphire clutched in our right hand hugged to our chest as we rock back and forwards.

"Well now, aren't you a delightful mess."

Can'thelpcan'thelpcan'thelpnothingwedonothingwedonothingwedo.

White face, white suit, black hair, gold eyes, don't know who, irrelevant.

"Be like that, then. I'm more than content just to watch."

Wanttohelpbutcantdon'tunderstandthemwanttohelpbutcan't. Can't. Can't. Wanttocan'twhycan't?

Wall hard cold grey, seat hard cold grey, warm avarice, stars distant, orange coils.

"Ah? As much fun as this has been, I think I'm going to have to love you and leave you. Do look me up if you ever snap out of it. Either of you."
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Mr Zoat said:
The face turns to look at me. That's not meant to happen.

"Oh look at you. It's high time we had a little chat, snake man. My place, I think."

That-.
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Ngamer11 said:
Didn't think we'd see Desire again. I'm not sure what's worse, having them as a friend, or having them as an enemy. I hope at some point, Paul can have a nice conversation with Death.
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Mr Zoat said:
He already had two. Naturally, he remembers neither of them.
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Ngamer11 said:
Let me rephrase that then. I hope we can actually read the two interacting at some point.
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And now, for some reason, I'm pondering an AU In Praise of Eros update where Paul isn't with Jade and Death decides she really needs a chance to relax and blow off some steam, and she's gotten to know Paul pretty well, so...

And, of course, even if she knew there would be no risks, I'm pretty sure she'd insist on Paul using protection. ;)

cereal_lurker said:
Aww, does that mean he'll never meet her again (and is officially immortal)? I remember a story where a fortune teller got her to leave on their second meeting and thus became immortal.
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I think Zoat meant that he's died twice already. Probably just forgot that, technically, everyone meets Death for the first time when they're born. (Or, maybe, since he wasn't born in the DC multiverse, he never met her at birth.) Given that superheroes and supervillains keep coming back from the grave, I suspect that having your conversation with her at death and then coming back doesn't make you officially immortal. I haven't read the story in question, but I suspect that the fortune teller became immortal by persuading her to let them live forever, not merely by having continued living after talking with her.
 
Mr Zoat said:
6th December 2012
15:24 GMT

"So, yeah. That's where I'm coming from. As far as I'm concerned, killing you would be a net positive for the universe, but… My favourite philosophers are a couple called John Stuart Mill and Harriet Taylor. Mill was originally a utilitarian, but one day he had a sort of brainstorm where he realised that even if he was successful in implementing utilitarianism across British society, it wouldn't make him happy."

The Spider Guild elders of Chughraghahh continue cowering in abject terror.

"I'm not quite like him. I probably would find killing you satisfying, and it would certainly promote the general good better than any other option. But as long as you stop being evil, I'll consider it to be just as good."

I smile pleasantly as I look them in the eyes one after another-.

One of the older ones collapses, clutching his thorax. Only those closest to him dare move, and they only lean away slightly.

Orange strands join me to the Spider Guilder currently… Not a heart attack, apparently. Rather, his digestive system has gone into overdrive and his own digestive enzymes have eaten through his stomach. Flip a few biological switches, repair the organs… And render him peacefully unconscious, because it looks like he hasn't been getting enough sleep.

I suppose there is a bit of an environmental catastrophe going on outside, from where I launched all of their orbital infrastructure at the planet.

"So how about it? You pledge your loyalty to the Queen and reform your society, and I'll help you get back on your feet."

I deposit my patient off to the side.

"What..?" There's a shuffling as his neighbours move away from the speaker. "Whatwillweeat?"

"Farming isn't that complicated. You're perfectly capable of raising animals -non-sophont animals- for slaughter, like most of your neighbours do. Or you can grow meat in vats. You're a technologically sophisticated world, it's well within your abilities."

And I feel-hear it, the sound-shape of their worldstate collapsing as they get it through their heads that this isn't a temporary hardship, but the end of the Proper Way Of Doing Things.

"So why don't you talk about this amongst yourselves, and I'll pop back in a day or so and find out where you've gotten to?"

I

step out,

reappearing on the bridge of a Karaxian battleship serving as part of the interdiction fleet. It seems that the local civilised worlds have used the opportunity I provided to tighten the noose a little. Not enough to end things, but combined with the economic damage I inflicted the local Spider Guild sept is being choked out.

"I said I'd give them a day to think it over."

There's a sort of diffusion of responsibility-based looking around between the senior officers, then the commanding admiral nods at Lantern Toren.

"Your… Queen."

"The Queen."

"I don't understand."

"My queen, the queen of my home nation, is a woman called Hippolyta. The Queen is a heavily altered Spider Guilder created by the sept in Vega as some sort of prototype living genetic engineering laboratory. Under her leadership they have developed excellent relations with their neighbours, and if they surrender to her instead of you, you won't have to worry about any other sept sending a retaliation fleet this way."

He nods.

"I have reviewed Lantern Green Man's records. She is at the mercy of all of her neighbours and building them ships for free. I doubt that these Spiders will acquiesce to that degree."

"There's always Plan B. But I think I'm going to be optimistic."

"If they do not accept, will you kill them all?"

"I probably should, but, no. Instead, I'll transport them to barely habitable worlds with no intelligent life, and they can relearn civilisation or die in accordance with their own merits."

"There are still a great many people alive on Chughraghahh, as well as their smaller colonies."

"I'm immortal. Or as close as anything can be. I've got the time and the motivation. I'm hopeful that even if I have to start, the rest will see that I'm serious after a few days and concede."

"And then?"

"And then I'll fly some of the Queen's people over here to oversee the transition to not-evil, while you and your friends park their ships in orbit with their guns pointing down just in case."

The admiral nods. "With no need to occupy their worlds."

"Occupying worlds is a ridiculous prospect. Once the population gets culturally unified it's basically impossible for a civilisation of a similar level of advancement unless their population is massively higher. I-."

"Admiral!"

A deck officer gestures at the tracking… Why is that ship heading for Chughraghahh?

The admiral grabs a handset, looking concerned.

"Hesk, what are you doing? We agreed-."

"We should have done it this way long ago. We lacked the resolve, the strength of soul! No longer! End t-."

I frown. That sounded off. He didn't look anything like that orange during the briefing. I turn my head and stare out through the hull towards his position. The Spider Guild still have ships but their planetary shields are gone. If that flotilla burns for the planet and performs a ground strike-.

I see his desires, his martial drives and need to inflict retribution… Even his desire for renown, are massively inflamed compared to what I saw earlier. And it's.. not just him, the rest of his flotilla look similar. Someone has mucked around with them. I could do that but it wasn't me. The Lanterns on Karax for self-study could probably do it, but there's no reason for them to do so. If they wanted to wreck the place then they're more than capable of doing it themselves. Who did this, who did this?

"Should we.. intercept?"

I hear the distaste in the admiral's voice. They might be afraid to push the attack, but the idea of acting against someone attacking their ancestral enemy naturally rankles.

"I believe that the crew are under an unnatural mental influence. I'm working to counter it. If it comes to it, I'll stop their ships myself. Stand by."

Show me a face.

Ah I see it. They spoke to-.

The face turns to look at me. That's not meant to happen.

"Oh look at you. It's high time we had a little chat, snake man. My place, I think."

That-.

Where am I?
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Congratulations you just got to the attention of Desire of the Endless. You are now fucked. Now let's see if it's in the fun way.
 
Chojin Patriarch said:
And I'm sure the Vegan Spider Queen can help them find inoffensive culinary options...
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She still eats meat.

Chojin Patriarch said:
Well... What do they get out of eating sapient creatures? Is there some spiritual aspect to their consumption that's critical, or is it just that the meat tastes nicer? :rolleyes:
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I think it's cultural since they ate a sapient species even before they left their world.

Chojin Patriarch said:
Called him a 'beautiful hot mess', if I remember right
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An accurate description.

Chojin Patriarch said:
So, what does the androgynous Personification of universal Want, er... Want from OL, I wonder. Has his mucking about been giving them an unpleasant itch somewhere? :p
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Paul better scratch that then.

And then disinfect his hands just to be safe.
 
Old Knife said:
Is/are Desire/Despair/Delight/Delirum the emotional spectrum?
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Gaiman has gone on record saying he doesn't like how most other DC writers portray the Endless so most writers/creators leave them alone and as a result, they aren't really shown outside of the Sandman series or whatever else Gaiman writes about them. To answer your question they could be but they are mostly their own thing unconnected to the rest of the DC universe.
 
Ciber said:
Just to be clear, Desire is not Avarice. They are related, but it's an important distinction. OL's ring is powered by Avarice, not Desire. You can Desire something because of love or hate or compassion.

The Lights of the rings are unique to a single universe. There are many universes where a different set of Lights are fundamental. But the Endless are a constant across the multiverse.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Not exactly.

https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Endless
 
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