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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Reader mode
Lord Ernest said:
It doesn't exist formally, but the Illustres has been tripping over all their establishing schemes and getting bitten and/or battered every time it happens.

Honestly, I feel that I understand his desire to get the other colors established. But after 1 or 2 times that the Yellow Lantern schemes affected him, I feel he should have stopped being so nonchalant about it. Sinestro's excuse that it wasn't their intention may be true, but damn, it feels like they keep gunning for him and because they miss or only graze him he goes "eh, still not my problem, this is fine".
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As far as LePaul knows he's come out the undisputed winner in each of those confrontations.

We as readers only know otherwise because we see what happens in various places after LePaul has moved on to the next shiny thing that catches his attention.
 
Lord Ernest said:
It doesn't exist formally, but the Illustres has been tripping over all their establishing schemes and getting bitten and/or battered every time it happens.

Honestly, I feel that I understand his desire to get the other colors established. But after 1 or 2 times that the Yellow Lantern schemes affected him, I feel he should have stopped being so nonchalant about it. Sinestro's excuse that it wasn't their intention may be true, but damn, it feels like they keep gunning for him and because they miss or only graze him he goes "eh, still not my problem, this is fine".
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No, the Yellow Lantern CORE does not exist.

The Yellow Lantern Corps existing does not change that fact.

The poster was making fun of Bramble's typo. b
 
Idkusername said:
concerned —> concern
I'll take —> I'll talk
to —> too
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Thank you, corrected.
Ngamer11 said:
I think you're confusing the Citadelians for the Psions. In the Renegade timeline, the Renegade led a strike force to annihilate the Citadelians, but let the Controllers get the Psions so that they can be turned to more productive ends. We later see Hinon with Psion followers, so that turned out fine for the Psions in the end.
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And in the main timeline, everyone in Vega ganged up to exterminate the psions.
 
Lord Ernest said:
It doesn't exist formally, but the Illustres has been tripping over all their establishing schemes and getting bitten and/or battered every time it happens.
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The "Yellow Lantern Core" does not, and never will, exist.

One, because they're not called the "Yellow Lanterns" - Sinestro puts his personal name on them - and secondly because a "Core" is someting you find in the middle of a planet or an apple.
 
Chojin Patriarch said:
I wonder if that's what he looks like to others with Empathic sight. Just a human-shaped blob of Want.
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Nah, I wouldn't guess so. Every enlightenment is different, and OL still feels and is driven by other emotions even if his nature is defined by his relationship to the Orange Light, unlike the Will or Fear enlightened Lanterns where those emotions seem to overpower any others by their very nature.
 
Hope that thisne w dick waffle doesn't go to darksied.
On the plus side. New nemesis getto!
 
Duke Long said:
I forgot this. Can anyone remind me what happened to him?
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China happened to him.

@edit

Speaking of with, Mr Zoat you mentioned places like India and China got hammered by the Sheeda and lost a lot of population as a result, but while this makes sense for DC India, DC China has been in Xcom mode low intensity war footing getting ready for an alien invasion for decades, I expected them to do extremely better than most earth nations as a result, but after the Sheeda they haven't even been a factor in the plot.
 
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Chaoswind said:
Speaking of with, Mr Zoat you mentioned places like India and China got hammered by the Sheeda and lost a lot of population as a result, but while this makes sense for DC India, DC China has been in Xcom mode low intensity war footing getting ready for an alien invasion for decades, I expected them to do extremely better than most earth nations as a result, but after the Sheeda they haven't even been a factor in the plot.
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Paul notes that the Great Ten and the Chinese Standing Committee on Metahuman Affairs as a whole work best with against a highly concentrated enemy that makes itself known once discovered, not the discreet and highly diffuse forces that the Sheeda favored. As such, the Chairman of the Chinese Standing Committee on Metahuman Affairs was very anxious when Paul brought forth Dr. Sivana's demands in exchange for his assistance in defeating the Sheeda.
 
Ngamer11 said:
Paul notes that the Great Ten and the Chinese Standing Committee on Metahuman Affairs as a whole work best with against a highly concentrated enemy that makes itself known once discovered, not the discreet and highly diffuse forces that the Sheeda favored. As such, the Chairman of the Chinese Standing Committee on Metahuman Affairs was very anxious when Paul brought forth Dr. Sivana's demands in exchange for his assistance in defeating the Sheeda.
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Yes, but unlike most of earth the Chinese have been dealing with alien shape-shifting stealth infiltrators with moderately advanced technology and weaponry for decades, that is pretty much 80% of the average Sheeda invasion force right there.

Unlike most of earth, they have live combat experience they can use. One would think they would have done better than most of the world as a result, certainly not better than absurd DC USA, but better than disarmed Europe at least.
 
Chaoswind said:
Yes, but unlike most of earth the Chinese have been dealing with alien shape-shifting stealth infiltrators with moderately advanced technology and weaponry for decades, that is pretty much 80% of the average Sheeda invasion force right there.

Unlike most of earth, they have live combat experience they can use. One would think they would have done better than most of the world as a result, certainly not better than absurd DC USA, but better than disarmed Europe at least.
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The Sheeda are able to get away fast in addition to their stealth. So whenever they attack, by the time a response team is sent in, the Sheeda would be long gone.
 
Ngamer11 said:
The Sheeda are able to get away fast in addition to their stealth. So whenever they attack, by the time a response team is sent in, the Sheeda would be long gone.
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Again, it's not just the great ten super team, during Grayven visit to China he sees a large parade with the normal infantry soldiers are running equiped with advanced technology and weapons not dissimilar to DC USA giving their police officers laser rifles, with additional combat vehicles and drones. Meanwhile police in Europe are either unarmed or armed with pistols (as we see in London) and yet somehow Europe did better against the Sheeda than the Chinese?

London has its Shaman confirmed and THAT can excuse how well the city did, but I have no reason to believe other European city centers are going to have equal magic measures of protection or that their police and military are more advanced than what London fields and are thus in anyway ready or as prepared as the Chinese or the Americans for the Sheeda.

Edit: Also we have confirmation in the narrative that European governments like the Danish minister were under Sheeda control and somehow Europe did better than China?

During the latest reread the euro bias really jumped at me. There are no plot significant reasons for Europe to do well against the Sheeda invasion, their magicians live mostly in isolated communities, their police is disarmed, their troops are advanced but limited in numbers to a ridiculous degree. In comparison DC China is heavily militarized with plenty of advanced weaponry for their troops and are only second to the USA and it's ridiculous penchant to give county Sheriff's beam rifles
 
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Chaoswind said:
Again, it's not just the great ten super team, during Grayven visit to China he sees a large parade with the normal infantry soldiers are running equiped with advanced technology and weapons not dissimilar to DC USA giving their police officers laser rifles, with additional combat vehicles and drones. Meanwhile police in Europe are either unarmed or armed with pistols (as we see in London) and yet somehow Europe did better against the Sheeda than the Chinese?

London has its Shaman confirmed and THAT can excuse how well the city did, but I have no reason to believe other European city centers are going to have equal magic measures of protection or that their police and military are more advanced than what London fields and are thus in anyway ready or as prepared as the Chinese or the Americans for the Sheeda.

Edit: Also we have confirmation in the narrative that European governments like the Danish minister were under Sheeda control and somehow Europe did better than China?
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If I remember correctly, the Durlan attack high value targets which have defenses against them. In contrast, the Sheeda want people, so they can attack anywhere at anytime, causing massive civilian casualties.
 
Chaoswind said:
Yes, but unlike most of earth the Chinese have been dealing with alien shape-shifting stealth infiltrators with moderately advanced technology and weaponry for decades, that is pretty much 80% of the average Sheeda invasion force right there.

Unlike most of earth, they have live combat experience they can use. One would think they would have done better than most of the world as a result, certainly not better than absurd DC USA, but better than disarmed Europe at least.
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But weren't the Sheeda using magic-based technology and camouflage? I get that the Chinese have their Superfunctionaries and their armed forces. But the Sheeda usually hit targets of opportunity with high density of population, no?

Europe is smaller and less populated. Regular police forces can't do shite, yeah, but they do have armed forces and I can't buy for a second that the OTAN wouldn't be as well equiped as the Chinese armed forces, and still, regular armed forces apparently couldn't do much against the Sheeda because they had some magic-based stealth. Meanwhile China has, I believe, a bunch more densily populated areas over a bigger territory and they also imprison those Metahumans that don't want to play ball.

On the other hand, I don't think China had it that much worse than the US or Europe, relatively speaking. I would expect that from India, for sure. And apparently South America collapsed, if not Latin America in general. I would just say that China got hit and they felt it, but they were probably rebuilding as well as could be expected.
 
Ngamer11 said:
If I remember correctly, the Durlan attack high value targets which have defenses against them. In contrast, the Sheeda want people, so they can attack anywhere at anytime, causing massive civilian casualties.
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Lord Ernest said:
But weren't the Sheeda using magic-based technology and camouflage? I get that the Chinese have their Superfunctionaries and their armed forces. But the Sheeda usually hit targets of opportunity with high density of population, no?

Europe is smaller and less populated. Regular police forces can't do shite, yeah, but they do have armed forces and I can't buy for a second that the OTAN wouldn't be as well equiped as the Chinese armed forces, and still, regular armed forces apparently couldn't do much against the Sheeda because they had some magic-based stealth. Meanwhile China has, I believe, a bunch more densily populated areas over a bigger territory and they also imprison those Metahumans that don't want to play ball.

On the other hand, I don't think China had it that much worse than the US or Europe, relatively speaking. I would expect that from India, for sure. And apparently South America collapsed, if not Latin America in general. I would just say that China got hit and they felt it, but they were probably rebuilding as well as could be expected.
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The Chinese literally field demi gods and spirit Shamans in their troops, when it comes to magic their government is probably only behind Atlantis, Themesira and London/Uk.

The Sheeda hitting rural China shouldn't be enough to literally write them off the fic as Mr Zoat has done, if the Sheeda cannot hit Tier 1 and Tier 2 cities then their damage to China is going to be less than negible.

I am saying when all the evidence explicitly stated in the narrative is compiled, there is no reason for China to do "badly" and suffer enough damage to render them a non factor in the plot while somehow Europe does fine when all the evidence in the fic points to Europe being unable to handle a force like the Sheeda beyond using their insular magical community that on average doesn't give a fuck about normal people and that would still need a lot of USA help with weapon transfers and whatnot.
 
Chaoswind said:
China happened to him.

@edit

Speaking of with, Mr Zoat you mentioned places like India and China got hammered by the Sheeda and lost a lot of population as a result, but while this makes sense for DC India, DC China has been in Xcom mode low intensity war footing getting ready for an alien invasion for decades, I expected them to do extremely better than most earth nations as a result, but after the Sheeda they haven't even been a factor in the plot.
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The problem is that they were adapted for durlans and not Sheeda.

Durlans don't care about a bunch of rural farmers. They want technology and their own pre-civil war records. Their infiltrators are few in number. As such, China could focus its xeno teams in urban centres and focus its detection efforts on a small number of sites.

Sheeda love harvesting peasant farmers. They want crops, animals and raw materials, and those are often easier to access at the source. They had dozens if Highborn, thousands of warriors and tens of thousands of combat creatures, all of which were highly mobile and potentially invisible. China doesn't have enough high-end forces to spread them out enough to cover places that the Sheeda attacked.
Chaoswind said:
The Chinese literally field demi gods and spirit Shamans in their troops, when it comes to magic their government is probably only behind Atlantis, Themesira and London/Uk.
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Sort of. China doesn't field shamen with their soldiers but they do have shamen in military service. The problem is that they're... Not very good. China basically destroyed most of its magic-related records -sometimes for good reason- and had to restart its magic knowledge basically from scratch relatively recently. A lot of them still work under heavy ideology-related restrictions. It's still better than the situation in Europe or the US as far as government magic goes, but both of those can get private sector magicians if they really need them.

Edit: Sorry, that should be official government magic. British masonic lodges would quietly slaughter the lot of them.
 
Mr Zoat said:
The problem is that they were adapted for durlans and not Sheeda.

Durlans don't care about a bunch of rural farmers. They want technology and their own pre-civil war records. Their infiltrators are few in number. As such, China could focus its xeno teams in urban centres and focus its detection efforts on a small number of sites.

Sheeda love harvesting peasant farmers. They want crops, animals and raw materials, and those are often easier to access at the source. They had dozens if Highborn, thousands of warriors and tens of thousands of combat creatures, all of which were highly mobile and potentially invisible. China doesn't have enough high-end forces to spread them out enough to cover places that the Sheeda attacked.

Sort of. China doesn't field shamen with their soldiers but they do have shamen in military service. The problem is that they're... Not very good. China basically destroyed most of its magic-related records -sometimes for good reason- and had to restart its magic knowledge basically from scratch relatively recently. A lot of them still work under heavy ideology-related restrictions. It's still better than the situation in Europe or the US as far as government magic goes, but both of those can get private sector magicians if they really need them.

Edit: Sorry, that should be official government magic. British masonic lodges would quietly slaughter the lot of them.
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Again if the Sheeda cannot attack the Tier 1 and Tier 2 cities then the damage they did to China should be fairly negible in the immediate term and the Chinese main food production and farm land is around those heavily defended territories as well so the long term damage is also questionable.

Strategically, Geographically and logistically the core of China se society IE what the Sheeda would have problems attacking should be more than fine, thus there is no realistic reason to render them a non factor in the narrative of the fic.

Is the same as the US losing rural counties in Colorado, their absolute destruction and complete kidnapping of the population would barely register to the USA, in the strategic and logistic level.
 
Mr Zoat said:
China's population is 37% rural, as opposed to the US's 17%. The US also has the advantage of a far more active superhero scene. Though, yes, rural areas in the US did suffer raids as well.
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Again that isn't really much. Intensive farming isn't done in the rural Chinese outback, so losing all of those people would barely account for 2% of Chinese production. China is speedrunning modernization that means some places are extremely modern with absurd production output of produce and industry in general while the rural areas are still using subsistence farming/fishing and living off government support when their crops fail.

Losing 30% of their rural population and subsistence production would account for a production lost of a single digit percent at best.
 
Chaoswind said:
Again if the Sheeda cannot attack the Tier 1 and Tier 2 cities then the damage they did to China should be fairly negible in the immediate term and the Chinese main food production and farm land is around those heavily defended territories as well so the long term damage is also questionable.

Strategically, Geographically and logistically the core of China se society IE what the Sheeda would have problems attacking should be more than fine, thus there is no realistic reason to render them a non factor in the narrative of the fic.

Is the same as the US losing rural counties in Colorado, their absolute destruction and complete kidnapping of the population would barely register to the USA, in the strategic and logistic level.
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Have you considered that maybe this superhero fanfic that runs largely on comic book logic (despite the SI's occasional attempts to behave vaguely rationally) may not actually be trying to figure out what what the "realistic" result would be and is instead just doing whatever seems most narratively convenient for what Mr. Zoat wants to write? Like, I honestly don't know what you hope to get out this conversation. You demanded a reason why China doesn't seem to be doing very much. Zoat tried to come up with one. You replied saying that reason is no good. What's the idea, that you have Zoat continue to produce reasons why China was hit hard and isn't doing very much right now until we find one that passes muster and you can approve of?
 
Steelplaza said:
Have you considered that maybe this superhero fanfic that runs largely on comic book logic (despite the SI's occasional attempts to behave vaguely rationally) may not actually be trying to figure out what what the "realistic" result would be and is instead just doing whatever seems most narratively convenient for what Mr. Zoat wants to write? Like, I honestly don't know what you hope to get out this conversation. You demanded a reason why China doesn't seem to be doing very much. Zoat tried to come up with one. You replied saying that reason is no good. What's the idea, that you have Zoat continue to produce reasons why China was hit hard and isn't doing very much right now until we find one that passes muster and you can approve of?
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To save my SOD and internal consistency with previous showings.

Also I believe Zoat has taken to space because the factions of earth have been "exhausted" and further plot developments on earth would be contrived.

It could also be that Zoat is avoiding earth to not run afoul of the site not current politics rules and if that is the case then there is little that can be done.

I don't really appreciate most of the space episodes to be honest, we barely get team updates...
 
Chaoswind said:
Again that isn't really much. Intensive farming isn't done in the rural Chinese outback, so losing all of those people would barely account for 2% of Chinese production. China is speedrunning modernization that means some places are extremely modern with absurd production output of produce and industry in general while the rural areas are still using subsistence farming/fishing and living off government support when their crops fail.

Losing 30% of their rural population and subsistence production would account for a production lost of a single digit percent at best.
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You're absolutely correct about everything you've said.
 
Pyrrhucy (part 5)
  • Threadmarks
    • 14th February 2013
    17:52 GMT

    I watch as they fly out of the atmosphere while my ring switches between various forms of sensor to try and detect anything they might have left behind. I don't have any record of qwardians using disease weapons but that might just mean that they were very thorough. I-.

    "What.. was that?"

    "What, Illustres Crad? I decided to spare a few of his people who I'd used as thralls. Yes, it would have been more rational just to kill them all, but I… I wanted to avoid killing peoples like that when not every individual was evil enough to justify it."

    "No, I read your reports after I put on my ring. I wanted to see how much of the pigeon-speak you came up with when you tried to recruit me was true. I mean, there was something… Different about how he used his ring."

    "Yes. I think he's enlightened. Making him confront his deepest fears seems to have freed him from them in the same way that confronting my desires did for me. I doubt that they can replicate the process…" I frown. "Not sure what Sinestro fears enough to put himself through that, but a version of me from a parallel universe managed to do it through ruthless self-reflection, so, maybe?"

    Speaking of…

    I send my heavy armour back into subspace, then take off my rings.

    Deep breath.

    And then I put the yellow ring on.

    A pale yellow aura surrounds me but there's no other reaction.

    "Lantern Natu, please take off your ring and then say anything."

    She frowns faintly. What I want is obvious, but she still hesitates.

    "It's a wretch, isn't it? Taking it off? When everything you want to do is so much easier with it on."

    Her face tightens slightly, and she grips her right with her left hand and slides it off.

    "Am I showing signs of fixation?"

    "Okay, still understood you, so unless you were speaking English then the translator function works. Feel free to-."

    "Could you answer my question?"

    I shrug, opening my empathic vision to trace the patterns of her desires. "Your fixation on your ring is entirely in proportion to its utility as a medical tool, personal shield in a hostile area and a weapon when you're part of a military. Power rings are awesome, and feeling off about being parted from one isn't a sign of mental instability."

    She nods, sliding it back on her finger.

    "Noticed that you didn't introduce yourself."

    "And say what?"

    "Anything you wanted. Despite the suspense this whole thing is creating, Sinestro's crimes are mostly political. The Orange Lantern Corps doesn't have any particular dispute with him. You could have asked them to pass on a message."

    "I could. But standing here, I couldn't think of anything I wanted to say."

    "Ah. Well."

    The yawning abyss of inevitable oblivion.

    Zon tak.

    A construct image of Thaal Sinestro appears in front of her, body language copied from Green Lantern Corps records and Korugari recordings. Proud, stern and imperious.

    Lantern Natu grimaces. "And that means, what? That I'm afraid of him?"

    "Him, what he represents, uncertainty. All sorts of emotions that you don't really want to think about. Honestly, I think you should talk to him, if only to get to the point where you stop building it up in your mind. This was just an opportunity to start things-"

    The construct shimmers and is replaced by one of General Zod.

    "-indirectly-."

    "Illustres!" Commodore Amalak strides out across the plaza, a small squad of guards arrayed around him. "Might I have a moment of your time!"

    "Certainly. What can I-?"

    "Our communication system here! We have exterior microphones!"

    "Yes?"

    "As I'm sure you know, I have a…" He notices the specifics of the Zod construct, trailing off as he looks it up and down. "Particular interest in Krypton. And that kryptonian in particular."

    I… Review my conversation with Lantern Natu.

    Fiddlesticks.

    "He's still alive..! Apparently!"

    "He's trapped in a limbo plane, but… Yes."

    "And you didn't see fit to mention that? To me?" He looks away for a moment. "Your reactions to.. when I told you… They were slightly odd, but I assumed I just didn't know your species well enough to understand your facial expression."

    "Alright. I didn't tell you because he's trapped, no one is letting him out, you trying to finish him off increases the chance of him getting out and because there was no benefit to me in you taking time away from your valuable work to pursue a vendetta. And I will remind you that you kept the plan to exterminate the psions from me."

    "The psions didn't wipe out your species. It really isn't the same thing."

    "No, alright, that's fair." And that's when I spot that the marines with him are the same species as him. Quick scan… Yes, all the soldiers of his species on the base. "Do you plan on going after him?"

    "I've dreamed of being the one who finally kills that monster." He looks me directly in the eyes. "I don't think there's anything that could make me hold back."

    "It's not like I want him left alive for some reason, I just don't see the point in going after him."

    "Sometimes, it's not about good sense."

    "I don't have a phantom zone projector."

    "I heard you say-."

    "I borrowed one from someone else. And he's on Earth, which is currently being Anti-Lifed. I'm not going to stop you getting access to the Phantom Zone yourself, but just… Just do it a long way away from a yellow sun, and remember that he's a very dangerous man."

    "I don't have a phantom zone projector. I've heard of them, but the technology is lost."

    "Al-right. Then in the interest of cordial relations, after Earth is liberated, I'll see about getting you access. Is that acceptable?"

    He thinks for a moment. "Barely."

    I nod, sliding off the yellow power ring and causing the Zod construct to collapse. Then I put my orange rings back on.

    "Then I'll return when I have news for you. Good day."
     
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