With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

[Steelplaza]

Paul doesn't particularly like gods. His primary use for them is as a solution for a place where people's souls can go after death. I wonder what Arion's solution is for "the afterlife problem" if he doesn't want to use gods.

 

[Mr Zoat]

Paul doesn't particularly like gods. His primary use for them is as a solution for a place where people's souls can go after death. I wonder what Arion's solution is for "the afterlife problem" if he doesn't want to use gods.

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'Git gud'.

 

[Mr Zoat]

I notice you never actually tell us what he is wearing.

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Happy now?

 

[Stsword]

I don't know Ahri'ahn's history very well why does he have disdain for the gods?

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The closest I can remember Arion having this kind of attitude in the comics is when, despite being empowered by the Lords of Order, he arranged for his granddaughter Power Girl, empowered by order magic (hence the pseudo-Kryptonian powers) to have a child whose father was a chaos demon, for the birth of a Lord of Balance, which is pretty much the same thing Hawk and Dove's mentors sought to do when they made their second Dove a woman.

But since in DC comics both the Lords of Order and Chaos are immense assholes, working against them is less showing prejudice and more just being anti-asshole.

I mean there was a Dr Fate storyline where the Lords of Order decided to ragequit the universe- by destroying said universe.

There was a storyline in which Nabu wanted to appoint the spirit of Kent Nelson as his successor as a Lord of Order, Kent declined, choosing to go the afterlife with his beloved Inza instead. Nabu cursed them both to be unable to enter the afterlife.

The Spectre overrode the curse by personally escorting Kent and Inza to the pearly gates himself. They were greeted by an archangel if memory serves. "Yeah, I'm not even going to bother to doublecheck. If the freaking Spectre says you're good, who could doubt it?"

When it's a plot point that the Spectre is less of an asshole than you are, you know you have a problem.

 

[Mr Zoat]

4th May 2013
14:37 GMT -2

"…Roman sewers, well before electrical power lines were invented."

Lantern Stewart looks at Ahri'ahn with a tinge of scepticism as he gestures to the Atlantean equivalent of a junction box.

"Individual units are far easier to build than a network, but a network is easier to build than a million individual units. I imagine it is similar to how a car is far less expensive and less disruptive than building a metro train network, so that even if the metro network would be more efficient it is cars which dominate your cities."

Ahri'ahn smiles faintly.

"A 'modern' Atlantean home has dozens of individual pieces of biomancy and pure enchantment, and the average citizen can only perform the most basic maintenance or repairs. But with an actual investment in infrastructure, we can create networks which allow the useful to spread over an area, off-loading the complex parts to locations like this which are far easier to maintain."

I nod as Doctor Balewa's eyes unfocus while he starts examining the system. "I suppose that explains why you're more concerned about external magic use now. A system like this is far easier to disrupt than the old compartmentalised system."

"It's harder to disrupt than a hundred of the older system, and it isn't intended to replace individual works completely. But it would be easier to disrupt… Say, the heat distribution exchange than a million individual ovens."

Ahh… "But 'disrupt' and not 'shut down', because it's self-reinforcing. You're using Professor Sephtian's work."

"Professor Sephtian designed a system where bound enchantments would reinforce one another. The system I designed redirects the flows of magic energy across an area. If you were looking for a metaphor, he planted trees whose roots would hold a river bank together, whereas I dug a canal to send the river where it will be more productive."

Dr. Balewa's eyes focus once again. "It is eh most intricate system. Is it practical to implement over a wider area?"

"It's easier to expand it than keep it contained." He smirks smugly. "The water metaphor is frankly rather a good one."

Diana frowns. "Is that part of why you only raised part of Atlantis from the water?"

He shrugs. "Those Atlantean citizens whose forebears received the… Lesser transformation spell, have adapted almost totally to aquatic life. At this point, bringing them back to the surface would not be in anyone's interests. And I will admit, raising the continent as much as I did drained me. It will be some time before I should attempt to channel such magic again."

I suppose that… Goes some way to explain why there aren't any non-Pureblood-. Ah, except Kaldur. So, he includes gill-neck Atlanteans? Kaldur does struggle if he's stuck out of water for too long… But perhaps that counts? The shore isn't all that far from here; the island of Poseidonis isn't all that large.

But, again, we have water-manipulation artefacts-. I mean, personal, drag-the-water-with-you-automatically enchanted jewellery became available last year. Any Atlantean with piscine characteristics could walk around the above-water regions, and while that might not be a comfortable way to live, it would make sense for work or education.

But I'm far too much of an outsider to investigate anything Ahri'ahn doesn't want to show me.

"Are Garth or Tula around?"

He nods. "I believe that they have returned to the Conservatory as full-time students. For such promising scholars, I don't believe that it makes sense to rush them into the field. Not outside of a national emergency." He smiles at me. "If you're concerned for their wellbeing, we can visit the Conservatory. I intended to make it a stop along the tour, but there's no harm in going there earlier."

Diana nods. "I would also like to speak with Arthur and Mera."

His smile becomes noticeably strained as he steps away from the utility hub and begins heading for the nearest Gate. "King Orin is presently involved in diplomatic work. Naturally, the various cities of Atlantis are interested in what role they will play going forwards, and he is reassuring them. He expected that you would be the one to visit, and indicated his intent to receive you later, once he had time. Queen Mera remains the head of the Conservatory of Sorcery. I imagine that she will speak with you when we arrive."

"Will Orin return to his role as Aquaman?"

I suspect that it's only because I'm using my rings' sensors that I spot him roll his eyes. Yes, that's a fairly normal reaction from someone who predates superheroic traditions to a head of state acting like a barbarian king. King Orin has two sons, but only Artur is legitimate and he's a small child. Putting kings in a position where it's easy to shoot them is very unwise.

It's a bit different in Diana's case. The current Wonder Woman is supposed to be an ambassador, and there's nothing stopping Queen Hippolyta summoning me and telling me that she and Philippus want triplets. And of course with Kon, Mitchell and Donna being adopted into the royal family, and with Themyscira having Greek traditions about royalty, it's less of a big deal.

"Almost certainly not. The changes to Atlantean civilisation as we emerge at last from the sea will require his full attention. Though I imagine that we can find someone else to take on the role."

"Personally, and with no insult intended to Doctor Balewa, I'd rather have an Atlantean archmage on the Justice League over a melee fighter."

"I note that you don't intend no insult to my king."

"King Orin is a perfectly effective fighter, but he's a division below Superman or Wonder Woman. Joining the League was a sound political move to encourage people in other countries to view Atlantis favourably, but at this point that's more easily done with trade…" I look around. "And tourism, which I suppose that you can do much more easily now. I don't intend to insult him. It's a dispassionate analysis that I've already given to him directly."

Diana closes her eyes for a moment.

Ahri'ahn doesn't look enthusiastic. "Our trade with other countries is being reviewed."

"I assume that the American citizens operating the circuit-printing machinery are in good health? Professor Sephtian was rather excited about the possibilities."

"It's a dead end as far as I'm concerned, but that may be my professional pride talking. We sheltered the Americans while the Anti-Life broadcasts were ongoing, and will be returning them shortly. Once we are certain that it is safe to do so."

"Do you want an independent party to be able to report that they're in good health?"

He considers the question as we walk through the Gate and… This place looks really different above water.

"Yes, that might be helpful. Guardsman!"

The Conservatory still has a garrison, though I note that the Nanauvians who were previously a part of it are now absent. A couple of the guards manning the gate look up at Ahri'ahn's shout.

"You. Take the Green Lantern to the foreign machinists. He can speak with them as much as he wants."

A fist to the chest salute is his immediate reply. "Yes, Lord. Green Lantern?"

Lantern Stewart hesitates for a moment, then nods. "Sure." He creates a platform under the soldier and lifts him up. "Where are we headed?"

Ahri'ahn leads the rest of us into the Conservatory-proper, the… Renovations being more extensive here than at the palace. There aren't any students in this part at this time of the day, and-.

And I only have to go through two sets of eyes before I learn my lesson about scanning around here.

"I believe that Queen Mera is taking one of the senior classes. I've notified her of your arrival, and she's scheduled you in after it is concluded. Would you like to see one of the classes, or should I take you to her office?"

 

[Ngamer11]

I suspect that it's only because I'm using my rings' sensors that I spot him roll his eyes. Yes, that's a fairly normal reaction from someone who predates superheroic traditions to a head of state acting like a barbarian king. King Orin two sons, but only Artur is legitimate and he's a small child. Putting kings in a position where it's easy to shoot them is very unwise.

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That should say 'Orin has two'.

"I note that you don't intend no insult to my king."

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That's a double negative. So I think that should say "intend no insult'.

 

[Darko]

I suspect that it's only because I'm using my rings' sensors that I spot him roll his eyes. Yes, that's a fairly normal reaction from someone who predates superheroic traditions

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Well if some of the things from his own comic happened in this story then he technically counts as a superhero himself.

Or at least a champion of sorts.

Diana closes her eyes for a moment

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That's Paul for ya.

 

[BlackCoat13]

King Orin two sons, but only Artur is legitimate and he's a small child.

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Orin has two

 

[PepeTheFrog]

That's a double negative. So I think that should say "intend no insult'.

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I think it's meant to be a double negative. Paul intended no insult to Doctor Balewa about wanting another magic type League member and Ahriahn pointed out that Paul intended some insult to Aquaman. Paul pointed out that he would have chosen Mera over Aquaman when he first reviewed the League's structure and membership.

 

[Chojin Patriarch]

4th May 2013
14:37 GMT -2

"…Roman sewers, well before electrical power lines were invented."

Lantern Stewart looks at Ahri'ahn with a tinge of scepticism as he gestures to the Atlantean equivalent of a junction box.

Click to shrink...

Not surprised, as John is a trained architect as well as a Marine and a Lantern. I'm sure he's studied Roman architectural history, and while he may not have the thaumaturgical background knowledge to appreciate Ahri'ahn's talking up of his city... I'm sure he figures Ahri'ahn is trying to make his work sound superior.

Spoiler: Commentary spoilered for length

"Individual units are far easier to build than a network, but a network is easier to build that a million individual units. I imagine it is similar to how a car is far less expensive and less disruptive than building a metro train network, so that even if the metro network would be more efficient it is cars which dominate your cities."

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I would say cars are more disruptive than mass transit, but that's coming from seeing a lot of dashcam video compilations. And a bus crash inconveniences more than one or two people.

Ahri'ahn smiles faintly.

"A 'modern' Atlantean home has dozens of individual pieces of biomancy and pure enchantment, and the average citizen can only perform the most basic maintenance or repairs. But with an actual investment in infrastructure, we can create networks which allow the useful to spread over an area, off-loading the complex parts to locations like this which are far easier to maintain."

Click to shrink...

And also easier to disrupt, though. One anti-magical field discharged within a hub and everything downstream of it gets knocked out...

I nod as Doctor Balewa's eyes unfocus while he starts examining the system. "I suppose that explains why you're more concerned about external magic use now. A system like this is far easier to disrupt than the old compartmentalised system."

"It's harder to disrupt than a hundred of the older system, and it isn't intended to replace individual works completely. But it would be easier to disrupt… Say, the heat distribution exchange than a million individual ovens."

Click to shrink...

Good, at least he can see the risks of such a centralisation project.

Ahh… "But 'disrupt' and not 'shut down', because it's self-reinforcing. You're using Professor Sephtian's work."

"Professor Sephtian designed a system where bound enchantments would reinforce one another. The system I designed redirects the flows of magic energy across an area. If you were looking for a metaphor, he planted trees whose roots would hold a river bank together, whereas I dug a canal to send the river where it will be more productive."

Click to shrink...

Admittedly, he may consider it inferior in part because a 'mutant' Atlantean made it, not because of inferior workmanship or theory. Still, I'll note the way he's defining them as separate works.

Dr. Balewa's eyes focus once again. "It is eh most intricate system. Is it practical to implement over a wider area?"

"It's easier to expand it than keep it contained." He smirks smugly. "The water metaphor is frankly rather a good one."

Diana frowns. "Is that part of why you only raised part of Atlantis from the water?"

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I'm not surprised Atlanteans have more water-focused metaphors, really.

He shrugs. "Those Atlantean citizens whose forebears received the… Lesser transformation spell, have adapted almost totally to aquatic life. At this point, bringing them back to the surface would not be in anyone's interests. And I will admit, raising the continent as much as I did drained me. It will be some time before I should attempt to channel such magic again."

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That is a good point. Many of the less anthroponormative citizens might have issues with surface life. Those with tentacles or large fin structures, like Sephtian...

I suppose that… Goes some way to explain why there aren't any non-Pureblood-. Ah, except Kaldur. So, he includes gill-neck Atlanteans? Kaldur does struggle if he's stuck out of water for too long… But perhaps that counts? The shore isn't all that far from here; the island of Poseidonis isn't all that large.

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Presumably 'gill-necks' are close enough to 'proper' Atlanteans to not set off his dislike that much. And a system of water flows through buildings would ease the issue of drying out.

But, again, we have water-manipulation artefacts-. I mean, personal, drag-the-water-with-you-automatically enchanted jewellery became available last year. Any Atlantean with piscine characteristics could walk around the above-water regions, and while that might not be a comfortable way to live, if would make sense for work or education.

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Or like in Wakanda Forever, where the Talokan citizens who went above-water wore masks which covered their mouths and gills with water-producing panels.

But I'm far too much of an outsider to investigate anything Ahri'ahn doesn't want to show me.

"Are Garth or Tula around?"

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Good question. They were never expected to be full militia members yet, were they? They got dragged into the superhero life because of stuff like the Split.

He nods. "I believe that they have returned to the Conservatory as full-time students. For such promising scholars, I don't believe that it makes sense to rush them into the field. Not outside of a national emergency." He smiles at me. "If you're concerned for their wellbeing, we can visit the Conservatory. I intended to make it a stop along the tour, but there's no harm in going their earlier."

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I suspect that would be preferable.

Diana nods. "I would also like to speak with Arthur and Mera."

His smile becomes noticeably strained as he steps away from the utility hub and begins heading for the nearest Gate. "King Orin is presently involved in diplomatic work. Naturally, the various cities of Atlantis are interested in what role they will play going forwards, and he is reassuring them. He expected that you would be the one to visit, and indicated his intent to receive you later, once he had time. Queen Mera remains the head of the Conservatory of Sorcery. I imagine that she will speak with you when we arrive."

Click to shrink...

So, much as I guessed, Orin's off on a 'goodwill' tour, calming nerves. While Mera gets stuck in the academic world...

"Will Orin return to his role as Aquaman?"

I suspect that it's only because I'm using my rings' sensors that I spot him roll his eyes. Yes, that's a fairly normal reaction from someone who predates superheroic traditions to a head of state acting like a barbarian king. King Orin has two sons, but only Artur is legitimate and he's a small child. Putting kings in a position where it's easy to shoot them is very unwise.

Click to shrink...

Even if they are functionally immune to small-arms fire because of the biological adaptions to undersea life... That doesn't preclude bigger guns and energy attacks.

It's a bit different in Diana's case. The current Wonder Woman is supposed to be an ambassador, and there's nothing stopping Queen Hippolyta summoning me and telling me that she and Philippus want triplets. And of course with Kon, Mitchell and Donna being adopted into the royal family, and with Themyscira having Greek traditions about royalty, it's less of a big deal.

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Surprised the Queen and her partner haven't made a move to produce another heir. Then again, maybe Lyta's waiting for Diana or one of the boys to take the throne so she can retire in happy matrimony with her sweetheart.

"Almost certainly not. The changes to Atlantean civilisation as we emerge at last from the sea will require his full attention. Though I imagine that we can find someone else to take on the role."

"Personally, and with no insult intended to Doctor Balewa, I'd rather have an Atlantean archmage on the Justice League over a melee fighter."

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Hmm... Have there been any other Aquamen in comics continuity? Hmm, Kaldur's Prime-Earth equivalent, Garth's counterpart, a few imposters, that one Stan Lee character... But no real other Aquaman legacy heroes...

"I note that you don't intend no insult to my king."

"King Orin is a perfectly effective fighter, but he's a division below Superman or Wonder Woman. Joining the League was a sound political move to encourage people in other countries to view Atlantis favourably, but at this point that's more easily done with trade…" I look around. "And tourism, which I suppose that you can do much more easily now. I don't intend to insult him. It's a dispassionate analysis that I've already given to him directly."

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Yes, you've commented on it a few times, OL. But it might be a little rude to come out and say it to a relative stranger like that.

Diana closes her eyes for a moment.

Ahri'ahn doesn't look enthusiastic. "Our trade with other countries is being reviewed."

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Ah, if not for the diplomatic matter, she might well have given him a 'Paul...' Although: 'Reviewed'? That sounds concerning. Would Ahri'ahn really cut off trade with surface nations?

"I assume that the American citizens operating the circuit-printing machinery are in good health? Professor Sephtian was rather excited about the possibilities."

"It's a dead end as far as I'm concerned, but that may be my professional pride talking. We sheltered the Americans while the Anti-Life broadcasts were ongoing, and will be returning them shortly. Once we are certain that it is safe to do so."

Click to shrink...

Dead-end? Man, he really doesn't get modern technology as much as he thought, does he?

"Do you want an independent party to be able to report that they're in good health?"

He considers the question as we walk through the Gate and… This place looks really different above water.

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I expect the colours are far less vibrant in the surface light, rather than magical lighting and bio-luminescence, for a start. Never mind the loss of plants and corals...

"Yes, that might be helpful. Guardsman!"

The Conservatory still has a garrison, though I note that the Nanauvians who were previously a part of it are now absent. A couple of the guards manning the gate look up at Ahri'ahn's shout.

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The nanauvians' absence could be practical, because shark-men probably don't do well above water (Admittedly, that's based on King Shark's movie appearances, and he's usually the 'big, slow, dumb guy' there.) Totally not because Ahri'ahn is creeped out by their shark faces, no...

"You. Take the Green Lantern to the foreign machinists. He can speak with them as much as he wants."

A fist to the chest salute is his immediate reply. "Yes, Lord. Green Lantern?"

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John is kind of the least useful member of the party at this junction. He's not a mage or a diplomat... And his skills do lend themselves more to combat and disaster recovery than smoothing over potential international incidents.

Lantern Stewart hesitates for a moment, then nods. "Sure." He creates a platform under the soldier and lifts him up "Where are we headed?"

Ahri'ahn leads the rest of us into the Conservatory-proper, the… Renovations being more extensive here than at the palace. There aren't any students in this part at this time of the day, and-.

Click to shrink...

Lots of conspicuous new patches on walls and hastily formed staircases, eh?

And I only have to go through two sets of eyes before I learn my lesson about scanning around here.

"I believe that Queen Mera is taking one of the senior classes. I've notified her of your arrival, and she's scheduled you in after it is concluded. Would you like to see one of the classes, or should I take you to her office?"

Click to shrink...

Wow, he's gotten so jaded about getting his eyes burnt out now, hasn't he?

Some of the changes Ahri'ahn is implementing sound a little concerning, especially the trade 're-evaluation'. I imagine he'd like to cut Atlantis off from the outside world entirely while he establishes 'proper order' as he sees it... But unlike the old days, the world is far more interconnected than it was, and few nations in these days can operate entirely independently, especially post-Anti-Life.

---

...easier to build that a million individual units.

Click to shrink...

...easier to build than a million individual units.

...if would make sense for work or education.

Click to shrink...

...it would make sense for work or education.

...but there's no harm in going their earlier.

Click to shrink...

...but there's no harm in going there earlier.

He creates a platform under the soldier and lifts him up

Click to shrink...

Missing Full Stop.

 

[RamiroGalletti]

Honestly... If it turns out the guy is NOT evil merely 'old fashion but trying his best' i would find it hilarious.

Heck maybe he would try to 'fix the lesser transformation and then offer it for free' then 'get surprised at the rejection'

 

[Darko]

Surprised the Queen and her partner haven't made a move to produce another heir. Then again, maybe Lyta's waiting for Diana or one of the boys to take the throne so she can retire in happy matrimony with her sweetheart.

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They are immortal and fairly new into a relationship, so they may have decided to wait a few decades or centuries before having kids.

The nanauvians' absence could be practical, because shark-men probably don't do well above water (Admittedly, that's based on King Shark's movie appearances, and he's usually the 'big, slow, dumb guy' there.) Totally not because Ahri'ahn is creeped out by their shark faces, no...

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I think Shark participated in the Split fight, but I don't remember if he used magical supports to operate on land.

John is kind of the least useful member of the party at this junction. He's not a mage or a diplomat... And his skills do lend themselves more to combat and disaster recovery than smoothing over potential international incidents.

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Though if it does come to a fight then he will be useful.

But unlike the old days, the world is far more interconnected than it was, and few nations in these days can operate entirely independently, especially post-Anti-Life.

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Atlantis may be an exception.

Before the Split they were isolationist and self-sufficient.

They did open up trade but that's been going on for a fairly small amount of time and so they're likely not going to suffer all that much, if at all, if they stop doing that.

 

[Darko]

Honestly... If it turns out the guy is NOT evil merely 'old fashion but trying his best' i would find it hilarious.

Heck maybe he would try to 'fix the lesser transformation and then offer it for free' then 'get surprised at the rejection'

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Ahri'ahn was the one responsible for the transformations and their varieties in the first place, and apparently those were deliberate.

Maybe like how bigots of today compare certain groups that they hate to certain animals, Ahri'ahn transformed the members of the various city-states into animals he thought best described them.

 

[Mr Zoat]

That should say 'Orin has two'.

Click to shrink...

Thank you, corrected.

That's a double negative. So I think that should say "intend no insult'.

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It's intentional. Ahri'ahn is referring to the SI's previous comment about intending no insult to Dr. Balewa.

...easier to build than a million individual units.
...it would make sense for work or education.
Missing Full Stop.

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Thank you, corrected.

...but there's no harm in going their earlier.

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Huh?

 

[Ngamer11]

Huh?

Click to shrink...

I double checked that part and found the proper correction.

He nods. "I believe that they have returned to the Conservatory as full-time students. For such promising scholars, I don't believe that it makes sense to rush them into the field. Not outside of a national emergency." He smiles at me. "If you're concerned for their wellbeing, we can visit the Conservatory. I intended to make it a stop along the tour, but there's no harm in going their earlier."

Click to shrink...

That should say 'there'.

 

[boo600]

Honestly... If it turns out the guy is NOT evil merely 'old fashion but trying his best' i would find it hilarious.

Heck maybe he would try to 'fix the lesser transformation and then offer it for free' then 'get surprised at the rejection'

Click to shrink...

As Darko noted, he's the one who made the lesser transformation a thing in the first place.

Also, we've already seen him (in the Renegade timeline) slaughter the Un-men for the crime of being ugly and using techniques he considers 'his,' murdering William Knightly for taking inspiration from his name, and trying to drown the surface world.

I find his genuine benevolence to be… unlikely. And he'll probably be stronger, having only partially raised Atlantis, without drowning the world or using the Dream to control minds on a massive scale.

 

[Ngamer11]

I'm betting on Ahri'ahn trying to keep the immoral things he's doing on the down low, both because he doesn't want the attention of people like Doctor Mist and OL and because he can't keep the entire populace under control if he's forced to split his attention between doing that and combating outside forces.

 

[Mr Zoat]

I double checked that part and found the proper correction.

That should say 'there'.

Click to shrink...

Thank you, corrected.

 

[RoninSword]

Was he responsible for the non pureblood forms? I thought those were a result of the populace forgetting how to do the pureblood variant. And that when he was around the pureblood variant was simply expensive so not everyone could afford it.

Edit: never mind, found this

The issue is basically that Ahri'ahn was a massive Poseidonis-supremacist and saw an opportunity to render in flesh what he believed about the people's spirits. This is not widely known in modern Atlantis.

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[Ardy]

Was he responsible for the non pureblood forms? I thought those were a result of the populace forgetting how to do the pureblood variant. And that when he was around the pureblood variant was simply expensive so not everyone could afford it.

Edit: never mind, found this

Click to shrink...

Uh

Oh

 

[Bud-E]

Random question Is there a version of Paul in Smallville?

 

[cerberus beasty]

I know Paul is becoming slightly disconnected from the average person with his enlightenment, but even he should be able to realize that someone needs to rearrange this guys teeth.

 

[Ngamer11]

I know Paul is becoming slightly disconnected from the average person with his enlightenment, but even he should be able to realize that someone needs to rearrange this guys teeth.

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Paul is willing to work with bad people if he thinks it's worth it. We just need to wait for him to realize whatever Ahri'ahn is selling isn't worth it.

 

[Mr Zoat]

4th May 2013
20:53 GMT -5

"So… Yeah. That's where we are."

Richard's frowning, though his mask makes it harder to see. "So Kaldur's just… Quitting?"

"Either that, or he's under cover, or mind controlled."

Wallace huffs. "Mind control again? Didn't we just get done with that?"

"If it helps, it's probably a different sort of mind control."

Zatanna nods. "There are a lot of ways to control someone with magic."

Roy grins. "Are you looking for a volunteer from the audience?"

"Ah…" She blushes faintly. "Not right now. What I mean is that Aqualad just seeming agreeable doesn't narrow it down. How-how were Tula and Garth?"

"About the same as they were last time I saw them. Other than the disinclination to continue as superheroes, which honestly makes sense."

Wallace regards me curiously. "Atlantis isn't exactly on the front line with the Reach, Oh El. They don't desperately need every single wizard they can get."

Richard's eyes dip for a moment. "Unless they do, and we just don't know why."

Kon shrugs. "Ahri'ahn said that raising Poseidonis took a lot out of him, and he's…" He looks at me. "How powerful is he?"

"I haven't been able to test him objectively, but based on legends, surviving artefacts and the sort of power he'd need to have to raise a sunken continent, about as powerful as human magicians get. I don't think he's quite as powerful as Doctor Mist due to the lack of an external power source, but I suspect that he's more skilled."

Roy looks blank. "How big a deal is the external power source thing? Because Zatanna doesn't have one, and…" He looks at Zatanna. "Ah, do you?"

She shakes her head. "My costume -and Dad's- helps a bit, and… Apparently-" She looks at me. "-Doctor Mist is one of my ancestors. And everyone descended from him can handle a bit more raw magic than most people."

"He…" Roy carries on looking blank. "Ah…"

She rolls her eyes. "It was over a hundred generations ago. Of course I don't look like him."

M'gann frowns. "How big is the difference?"

Zatanna looks a little awkward. "Well, it's… Hard to measure it exactly-."

"About two hundred times more raw power, untrained homo magi to random peon. About fifty times more raw power, slightly experienced homo magi to minor street magician. About twenty times more raw power, veteran homo magi to a lifelong magic junkie like John Constantine."

Wallace nods. "So they start stronger, and a regular guy can't ever catch up."

"Yes." / "No."

I raise my eyebrows at Zatanna, and she shrugs. "They can, but they have to make a deal with something for a power boost. Circe is supposed to have made a deal with Hecate, Dark Druid made one with the Rot, Felix Faust makes one with anything that will still talk to him... And then since they're not using their own power any more it's much less of a drawback."

"Aside from the physical and mental transformations, the demands of their patrons, and the fact that it probably means that they'll struggle to use other types of magic from then on. And the fact that a homo magi who made the same pact would still be stronger."

M'gann looks puzzled. "What about magic artefacts?"

"This is raw direct energy manipulation. There are all sorts of ways to increase a magician's effective combat power. Imbue an object with a spell you can just activate, and that's effectively another free spell. Use the right gestures and you're not having to shove the world around with raw power, making casting easier. Heck, why do you think summoning demons used to be so popular? A demon can do far more than a summoner who's just strong enough to summon it."

Richard nods. "But they don't work for free."

"They literally can't. Though I did read about an occasion where a demon really wanted to do something and was fine with getting paid with a sandwich."

He smirks. "What kinda sandwich?"

"Ah, ham and cheddar, but it was a symbolic exchange of value rather than something where the contents were significant."

Wallace perks up slightly. "Ham and cheese sandwiches aren't kosher. Is that important?"

Um… "It wasn't mentioned as being significant in the book I read, but I suppose that every little bit of sacrilege helps."

Richard looks contemplative. "When are you going back?"

"Monday. Dox has told our wizards to either begin packing up or formally request asylum within a day. I don't imagine any will be staying."

Artemis snorts. "So this Ahri'ahn guy is just upending their lives, and he thinks they'll be okay with that? Sounds like we're back to magical mind control." She frowns. "Is the Orange Lantern-. I mean, is N.E.M.O., going to be okay with that?"

"There are other places we can go for magic assistance. They're just less easy. As things stand we'll probably go to Lantern Hieronymous's homeworld and see if we can negotiate something with its ruler. Which isn't ideal because he's a magical high school dropout and they're a long way away from the Reach war zone… And frankly, their knowledge of thaumaturgy doesn't seem to be up to Atlantean standards." I shrug. "It's a blow, but we'll manage. Not like the Reach have any magic users either."

Roy nods. "What's the League doing about this?"

Kon shrugs. "Aquaman can quit whenever he wants to. And you know that the League doesn't want to break their Charter…" He smiles wryly. "Where people can see it. So if Atlantis doesn't want to take part, that's up to them. Unless they are being mind controlled, but it's not like Mom or anyone else can just demand to see the king."

M'gann frowns. "What about his father?"

Richard winces. "He can't really demand that, either. I mean, if he was sick or something then Aquaman would probably want to know, but he's actually pretty healthy."

Ah!

"The Fish-Eaters."

"Huh? Oh!" Richard nods. "Yeah. That could work."

Wallace gives him a blank stare. "And for the rest of us?"

"A group of minor magic using hooligans from Cornwall. They were taking part in a restorative justice program in Poseidonis as an alternative to a young offenders institution in Britain. Afterwards, they got an open travel visa. I don't know exactly where they are now, but they should still be able to go back and forth without triggering any wards. Whether they'll be willing to or not I don't know, but it doesn't hurt to ask. And if they're still in Atlantean territory and I get stopped, trying to find them is a legitimate reason for poking around."

"You should take M'gann and Robert. And… Zatanna?"

She thinks about it. "Well… I… Can't fight Ahri'ahn, but if he doesn't know how my family's magic works then I should be able to bypass some of his wards."

"I meant, can you breathe in water?"

"Oh, sure, that's easy. Especially in Atlantis."

I nod, standing up. "I'll go and talk to Robert. I'll let you know if he's available."

 

[GigaVanguard]

"So Kaldur's just… Quitting?"

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Quitting should be lowercase

They don't desperately every single wizard they can get."

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desperately need

Afterwards, they got a open travel visa.

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an open travel visa

"Well… I… Can't fight Ahri'ahn

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Can't should be lowercase

 

[NightmareWarden]

Ah yes, Mister Thaumovore! I'm sure Ahri-ahn wants clever souls like Paul utilizing them. Especially on his turf.

...I wonder if Rob's going to suffer indigestion or something from an overzealous ward.

 

[Darko]

"Either that, or he's under cover, or mind controlled

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Good to know that you considered that option.

Wallace huffs. "Mind control again? Didn't we just get done with that?"

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Wouldn't be a superhero setting if you didn't deal with similar crap practically every other week.

"If it helps, it's probably a different sort of mind control

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It doesn't help.

Zatanna nods. "There are a lot of ways to control someone with magic."

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Might have been subtle enough that you couldn't see any spell. Like altering some minor memories that would still change his personality in some big ways.

Wallace regards me curiously. "Atlantis isn't exactly on the front line with the Reach, Oh El. They don't desperately every single wizard they can get."

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Unless they need them to help maintain their current surface position.

They don't desperately every single wizard they can get."

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"need every"

Kon shrugs. "Ahri'ahn said that raising Poseidonis took a lot out of him, and he's…" He looks at me. "How powerful is he?

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There honestly may be more powerful magic users, but they depend on magic artifacts or patrons.

. I don't think he's quite as powerful as Doctor Mist due to the lack of an external power source

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I didn't know Mist used an external power source.

I thought that he just saw the Life Entity and altered his soul to make himself immortal, not that he drew power from it.

She shakes her head. "My costume -and Dad's- helps a bit, and… Apparently-" She looks at me. "-Doctor Mist is one of my ancestors. And everyone descended from him can handle a bit more raw magic than most people

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At this point it wouldn't be surprising if he's the ancestors of at least 10% of the global population.

experienced homo magic to minor

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"magi"

Wallace nods. "So they start stronger, and a regular guy can't ever catch up."

"Yes." / "No.

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Depends.

Maybe they can catch up if they're a hard worker.

Sound like

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"Sounds"

As things stand we'll probably go to Lantern Hieronymous's homeworld and see if we can negotiate something with its ruler

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I thought he was the ruler.

Which isn't ideal because he's a magical high school dropout and they're a long way away from the Reach war zone

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Though they may be willing to trade, or just be thankful that you're keeping him away.

And frankly, their knowledge of thaumaturgy doesn't seem to be up to Atlantean standards

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But they're still a magical civilization.

And the Reach aren't.

"A group of minor magic using hooligans from Cornwall. They were taking part in a restorative justice program in Poseidonis as an alternative to a young offenders institution in Britain. Afterwards, they got a open travel visa. I don't know exactly where they are now, but they should still be able to go back and forth without triggering any wards

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Unless Ahri'ahn altered the wards to pick up on non-purebloods.

"I meant, can you breathe in water?"

"Oh, sure, that's easy. Especially in Atlantis

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Because there's a lot of magic energy floating around that she can use to maintain her spells?

 

[Chojin Patriarch]

4th May 2013
20:53 GMT -5

"So… Yeah. That's where we are."

Richard's frowning, though his mask makes it harder to see. "So Kaldur's just… Quitting?"

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Ah, skipping all the tour stuff in favour of filling in the Team, I see. Would have been nice to see Mera, but she's a busy woman. I don't see them liking Kaldur's decision much, given how close they were.

Spoiler: Commentary spoilered for length

"Either that, or he's under cover, or mind controlled."

Wallace huffs. "Mind control again? Didn't we just get done with that?"

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Especially after a chunk of the Team got an extra-dose of Anti-Life, too...

"If it helps, it's probably a different sort of mind control."

Zatanna nods. "There are a lot of ways to control someone with magic."

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And not every available protection works against every kind...

Roy grins. "Are you looking for a volunteer from the audience?"

"Ah…" She blushes faintly. "Not right now. What I mean is that Aqualad just seeming agreeable doesn't narrow it down. How-how were Tula and Garth?"

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Yeah, the nastiest kinds of mind control are the subtle ones that make you feel like the ideas forced on you are your own... And if Ahri'ahn is doing the mind-control thing, no way would he brute force it, so...

"About the same as they were last time I saw them. Other than the disinclination to continue as superheroes, which honestly makes sense."

Wallace regards me curiously. "Atlantis isn't exactly on the front line with the Reach, Oh El. They don't desperately every single wizard they can get."

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Whereas Earth does? I mean, they do need to finish their education... Magic is one thing where the equivalent of a GED won't cut it, talented (or lucky) hedge-wizards like Constantine notwithstanding.

Richard's eyes dip for a moment. "Unless they do, and we just don't know why."

Kon shrugs. "Ahri'ahn said that raising Poseidonis took a lot out of him, and he's…" He looks at me. "How powerful is he?"

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Strong enough to reshape a continent. That's pretty high up there.

"I haven't been able to test him objectively, but based on legends, surviving artefacts and the sort of power he'd need to have to raise a sunken continent, about as powerful as human magicians get. I don't think he's quite as powerful as Doctor Mist due to the lack of an external power source, but I suspect that he's more skilled."

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Lacking external power just makes him more dangerous. Can't cut him off, after all, and he knows how to do more with less as his batteries run down.

Roy looks blank. "How big a deal is the external power source thing? Because Zatanna doesn't have one, and…" He looks at Zatanna. "Ah, do you?"

She shakes her head. "My costume -and Dad's- helps a bit, and… Apparently-" She looks at me. "-Doctor Mist is one of my ancestors. And everyone descended from him can handle a bit more raw magic than most people."

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That's putting it mildly.

"He…" Roy carries on looking blank. "Ah…"

She rolls her eyes. "It was over a hundred generations ago. Of course I don't look like him."

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Heck, with the right mix of genes, a grandchild may not even look like a grandparent.

M'gann frowns. "How big is the difference?"

Zatanna looks a little awkward. "Well, it's… Hard to measure it exactly-."

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Though I don't doubt Dox hasn't had someone working on ways to do so to evaluate recruits.

"About two hundred times more raw power, untrained homo magi to random peon. About fifty times more raw power, slightly experienced homo magic to minor street magician. About twenty times more raw power, veteran homo magi to a lifelong magic junkie like John Constantine."

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Amazing what a simple twist of genetics can do for someone's magical power, huh?

Wallace nods. "So they start stronger, and a regular guy can't ever catch up."

"Yes." / "No."

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Well, based on their own strength, anyway...

I raise my eyebrows at Zatanna, and she shrugs. "They can, but they have to make a deal with something for a power boost. Circe is supposed to have made a deal with Hecate, Dark Druid made one with the Rot, Felix Faust makes one with anything that will still talk to him... And then since they're not using their own power any more it's much less of a drawback."

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Or like John Constantine, who fell face-first into not one but two huge power sources. And drawbacks can matter.

"Aside from the physical and mental transformations, the demands of their patrons, and the fact that it probably means that they'll struggle to use other types of magic from then on. And the fact that a homo magi who made the same pact would still be stronger."

M'gann looks puzzled. "What about magic artefacts?"

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Yeah, some of those sources come with lots of strings.

"This is raw direct energy manipulation. There are all sorts of ways to increase a magician's effective combat power. Imbue an object with a spell you can just activate, and that's effectively another free spell. Use the right gestures and you're not having to shove the world around with raw power, making casting easier. Heck, why do you think summoning demons used to be so popular? A demon can do far more than a summoner who's just strong enough to summon it."

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In a way, Magic is the cheat codes for the Universe. Or sometimes, the exploitable bug that the speedrunners (read: wizards) all use.

Richard nods. "But they don't work for free."

"They literally can't. Though I did read about an occasion where a demon really wanted to do something and was fine with getting paid with a sandwich."

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Heh. Gotta love the loopholes. Pity the unionised demon who has to insist on equivalent exchange.

He smirks. "What kinda sandwich?"

"Ah, ham and cheddar, but it was a symbolic exchange of value rather than something where the contents were significant."

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Could have been expensive ham and cheddar...

Wallace perks up slightly. "Ham and cheese sandwiches aren't kosher. Is that important?"

Um… "It wasn't mentioned as being significant in the book I read, but I suppose that every little bit of sacrilege helps."

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I suspect it's a matter of how the person making the deal views its value, too.

Richard looks contemplative. "When are you going back?"

"Tomorrow. Dox has told our wizards to either begin packing up or formally request asylum within a day. I don't imagine any will be staying."

Artemis snorts. "So this Ahri'ahn guy is just upending their lives, and he thinks they'll be okay with that? Sound like we're back to magical mind control." She frowns. "Is the Orange Lantern-. I mean, is N.E.M.O., going to be okay with that?"

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It'd have to be impressive mind control if it can affect someone that far away.

"There are other places we can go for magic assistance. They're just less easy. As things stand we'll probably go to Lantern Hieronymous's homeworld and see if we can negotiate something with its ruler. Which isn't ideal because he's a magical high school dropout and they're a long way away from the Reach war zone… And frankly, their knowledge of thaumaturgy doesn't seem to be up to Atlantean standards." I shrug. "It's a blow, but we'll manage. Not like the Reach have any magic users either."

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...Yet. Don't tempt fate like that, OL. Who knows what the Reach are doing on the far side of their territory from NEMO? They can't be fully encircled by opposition, can they?

Roy nods. "What's the League doing about this?"

Kon shrugs. "Aquaman can quit whenever he wants to. And you know that the League doesn't want to break their Charter…" He smiles wryly. "Where people can see it. So if Atlantis doesn't want to take part, that's up to them. Unless they are being mind controlled, but it's not like Mom or anyone else can just demand to see the king."

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So Ahri'ahn could push through a non-interventionist treaty akin to that with their China? That could have all manner of repercussions.

M'gann frowns. "What about his father?"

Richard winces. "He can't really demand that, either. I mean, if he was sick or something then Aquaman would probably want to know, but he's actually pretty healthy."

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And no making him sick just for leverage, OL. I know you're not likely to do that, but just in case...

Ah!

"The Fish-Eaters."

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Wait, really? Talk about a deep callback...

"Huh? Oh!" Richard nods. "Yeah. That could work."

Wallace gives him a blank stare. "And for the rest of us?"

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And the benefit of the audience, too...

"A group of minor magic using hooligans from Cornwall. They were taking part in a restorative justice program in Poseidonis as an alternative to a young offenders institution in Britain. Afterwards, they got a open travel visa. I don't know exactly where they are now, but they should still be able to go back and forth without triggering any wards. Whether they'll be willing to or not I don't know, but it doesn't hurt to ask. And if they're still in Atlantean territory and I get stopped, trying to find them is a legitimate reason for poking around."

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And since they can shapeshift into shark-folk forms (if I remember right) they can slip through the borders, too, if they need to evac.

"You should take M'gann and Robert. And… Zatanna?"

She thinks about it. "Well… I… Can't fight Ahri'ahn, but if he doesn't know how my family's magic works then I should be able to bypass some of his wards."

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That's a power team to go undercover in Atlantis. Especially with Rob's thaumovore abilities.

"I meant, can you breathe in water?"

"Oh, sure, that's easy. Especially in Atlantis."

I nod, standing up. "I'll go and talk to Robert. I'll let you know if he's available."

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I suppose ambient energy levels and a natural alignment towards such spells, eh?

Looks like the Team's gearing up for a little undercover investigation. I hope they at least check that they aren't stepping on the League's toes if they go poking around in Atlantis. And there's also the danger that Ahri'ahn will notice them and respond poorly. Or worse, they get caught by any mind-control he may or may not have going on.

 

[Darko]

Whereas Earth does? I

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I mean, yeah.

After Anti-Life, having wizards on hand could be useful.

Though I don't doubt Dox hasn't had someone working on ways to do so to evaluate recruits.

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The Controllers may already have such a system.

Hinon used magic at one point, so it's not like they're unfamiliar with it.

Heh. Gotta love the loopholes. Pity the unionised demon who has to insist on equivalent exchange.

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Hey, if you want something then you better pay a fair price.

It'd have to be impressive mind control if it can affect someone that far away.

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Ahri'ahn is an impressive wizard.

 

[boo600]

It's nice to see the Team again - and they're being relevant and everything!

And we've got hard numbers on just how powerful Homo Magi are compared to normal humans, at least in terms of raw power manipulation. This is a cool update!