With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

[Darko]

The Fantastic Four forced Galactus back with the Ultimate Nullifier, and that backfired on them.

Doctor Strange forced Dormammu back with Time Stone, which could backfire on him at any moment given he no longer has the Time Stone.

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And?

It still worked and they managed to save billions of people.

Their options also weren't exactly numerous.

am talking about the quality of the arguments he made in those cases, whether he was successful or not is immaterial to that

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It's really not.

The fact that it worked can show that it's a good argument.

And you'll try to counter this by saying that his arguments were simplistic.

But here's the thing; sometimes people can't or won't see a certain issue or solution until it is pointed out to them, no matter how simple it is.

This can be for a variety of reasons.

The Terror Twins had childhood memories where the act of destruction was positive, at least one of their parents was an alcoholic, their education was poor, so they turned to crime instead of pursuing the legitimate solutions Paul gave them.

Hera has had thousands of years to invest in her relationship with Zeus, and anyone in her close family has probably given up on her relationship with Zeus to improve, and any Olympian worshippers wouldn't have told her to just do the obvious thing and divorce him because they either couldn't fathom that happening, or feared that they'd offend Zeus or Hera since she's the goddess of marriage.

Talia was raised in a cult that worshipped her father and it took Paul telling her about what he did to his previous daughter as well as pointing out several ways that he could have saved the planet for her to leave him.

Just because something is simple that doesn't mean that it's stupid.

 

[CrazyNoVa]

I am talking about the quality of the arguments he made in those cases, whether he was successful or not is immaterial to that.

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Except that it isn't? I've read the arguments he had with each of them, and for the most part, they were sound. And in some cases, he even promised them a way to get exactly what they wanted in a non-criminal way.

 

[Vaermina]

And?

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And, that's a completely different thing from talking someone around to your point of view.

The fact that it worked can show that it's a good argument.

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In real life.

In fiction an argument working just shows that the author decided it works.

The Terror Twins had childhood memories where the act of destruction was positive, at least one of their parents was an alcoholic, their education was poor, so they turned to crime instead of pursuing the legitimate solutions Paul gave them.

Hera has had thousands of years to invest in her relationship with Zeus, and anyone in her close family has probably given up on her relationship with Zeus to improve, and any Olympian worshippers wouldn't have told her to just do the obvious thing and divorce him because they either couldn't fathom that happening, or feared that they'd offend Zeus or Hera since she's the goddess of marriage.

Talia was raised in a cult that worshipped her father and it took Paul telling her about what he did to his previous daughter as well as pointing out several ways that he could have saved the planet for her to leave him.

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The low hanging fruit should already be picked.

Or to put it in other words, if a problem is so easy to fix that a few easily accessible bits of information can solve it, it should already be solved.

 

[BR549]

Also, consider this: We know that Paul convinced Ronan, but we don't know exactly how he managed it. For all we know, maybe Paul had to pay some kind of price or make some sort of sacrifice to convince Ronan to not attack Earth, which may bite Paul back in the ass later.

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As mentioned, we know exactly how Paul told Ronan to bugger off: he threatened to fast-track Earth's annexation by the Shi'ar, and asked if the Kree were ready to kick off an intergalactic war over a fundamentally insignificant planet. And they weren't.

In universe, though, the only people who know are Paul and Ronan. Ronan's too pissed to tell anyone, and Paul is taking the piss by letting everyone else wonder.


...what I am wondering about myself, though, is how the EMH adaptation of Secret Invasion worked out. Since if we go by the "episode air dates are in-universe real dates" convention, the entire thing would have taken place over three weeks from mid-May to early June, which seems just a little implausible. Logically one might presume they either pushed things back due to this Lantern dude possibly being an issue; it's simply been shifted further back in the timeline (something entirely logical); or Paul's ring picked up the fact that Cap had been replaced and then he put paid to the entire invasion in like five minutes.

Yes, yes, Marvel is fucked, as always.
The question I have is: how fucked is Paul?

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We may find out if we get to see more of Hank Pym's No-Good, Very Bad Week.

 

[Ngamer11]

...what I am wondering about myself, though, is how the EMH adaptation of Secret Invasion worked out. Since if we go by the "episode air dates are in-universe real dates" convention, the entire thing would have taken place over three weeks from mid-May to early June, which seems just a little implausible. Logically one might presume they either pushed things back due to this Lantern dude possibly being an issue; it's simply been shifted further back in the timeline (something entirely logical); or Paul's ring picked up the fact that Cap had been replaced and then he put paid to the entire invasion in like five minutes.

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I think I remember Mr Zoat saying that Paul will be replaced at some point, with the unfortunate Skrull tasked with impersonating him experiencing the negative effects of the orange light in full.

 

[Mr Zoat]

16th June 2012
20:07 GMT -5

Okay, Janet's way too invested in this to leave the Mansion-. Unless she decided to spy on the School-. Which she probably won't do in case they somehow realise that she has the x-gene too. And she's not in the workshop or labs, because she only goes there when she's trying to persuade Henry to leave them. The building isn't shaking, so Skurge and Hulk are probably in the lounge. I should ask-.

I should remember that I own a power ring. Ring, where's Janet?

Janet is located in the gymnasium.

Thank you.

A series of transitions later, and I'm there, Antony's modifications to make each part of the Mansion airtight delaying me only slightly. Janet's in gym clothes on the running machine, and she looks up and then smiles when I walk through the door.

"Hey Paul! I thought you didn't need to exercise? Or are you just here to cheer me on?"

"Ahh… No." I use the time I spend walking closer to try and work out what I'm going to say. 'Your boyfriend thinks I'm trying to steal you and he's okay with that' probably isn't the thing to say. If only because the fact that he said that would probably torpedo their… Difficult relationship. "So…"

"Has Anna Marie sent you a message?" She picks up her phone from the stand on the running machine. "I've been messaging her, but I think she's got her cell on silent."

"No. No, I… I'm sure that she'll contact me if she needs to, but otherwise, I'm not hovering."

Her face falls. "Am I hovering?" She puts her phone down, then turns the screen over. "Do you think I'm hovering?"

"Ah… That depends how many messages you've sent. I think one is fine… Maybe two. But if she's not replying then more than that-"

She winces.

"-then… Maybe cool it down?"

"Yeah, I just… Yeah."

"Of course, if she hasn't replied then she probably hasn't read them, so I wouldn't worry."

"I just wanna make sure she's having a good time. I didn't even get to interrogate-. Talk to.. Aaron."

"Aaron is a perfectly pleasant young masculine humanoid. You can interrogate him if they go on a second date."

"Talk to! Not 'interrogate'!"

"Of course. Um." 'Us raising a daughter together is making your boyfriend uncomfortable' isn't a good approach either, because she'll see that as him having a problem with her relationship with Anna Marie, which will at the very least cause a flaming row. Ah. Well, Steven did say that honesty is the best policy. "I've got a very awkward thing I need to talk about with you. Um. Don't really know how to do it."

"I don't mind guys leaving the seat up. I can work a toilet seat."

"That-. Thank you, but that wasn't it. Um. So, Henry appears to be-"

She snorts dismissively.

"-under the impression-."

"Is he in the lab again?"

"… Yes. He appears to be under the impression that me asking you to help raising Anna Marie-"

Her eyes narrow, and she stabs the 'stop' button. Oh dear.

"-was part of a seduction technique -that I'm trying to woo you- and I wanted to make it clear that while I consider you a very dear friend and am grateful for your help with Anna Marie, I-."

"What? What?" She comes to a halt. "What?"

"I'm not interested in you that way, and even if I was, I'm not the sort of person who'd try and 'cut in' like that."

Her hands are on her hips. "What are you even talking about?"

"As I said-."

"I know you're not-! Gah! Obviously!"

"Oh-" I smile, relieved. "-good. I was worried that-."

"You're gay!"

"Ah. Huh?"

"See this?" She gestures to her sports bra. "I was running. You weren't looking."

"Yes?"

"Even Steve looks. For, like, half a second, and you have to really be watching to spot it-"

"Um."

"-but he does and you don't. And you turned down that Black Cat girl!"

"Black Cat stole the power ring and led me on a chase halfway across the city in a whole mess that could have easily been resolved with a short conversation."

"She was all over you."

"She's an adroit manipulator. She was just trying to get a positive outcome for herself. I got maybe two honest sentences out of her all day."

"Yeah, I saw her 'honest sentences'. I though she was padding her outfit."

"She-. No-. I mean, it was thick leather for protection, but she didn't-" My hands are making curve shapes over my pectorals. "-pad-. No."

"Damn." She raises her eyebrows. "She musta drunk her milk."

"So I'm glad that I didn't give you the wrong impression-."

"So you're not gay?"

"I… I don't think so? I didn't really have a strong opinion, but I've been in the men's changing room when Steven was naked, and I… I didn't feel any desire.. towards him? And I figure that if you're not into Captain America then you're-" I shake my head. "-probably not into men."

She nods, looking away. "That tracks. Shoot."

"So now that we've established that-."

She frowns at me. "So what's wrong with me, then?"

"That's a question that no man with any sense will answer. But I can use the power ring to suppress instinctive reactions."

I then step closer and bend down, purposefully staring right at her-.

"Okay okay!" She puts her right arm across her chest. "I didn't actually want you to!"

I straighten up. "The point is that I'm not unaware that your relationship with Henry has… Deteriorated, and if you want to talk to someone about it, I'm here."

"See, when I thought you were gay-."

"What's the alternative? Natasha?"

"I have other friends!"

"But you'll fallen out over hero stuff and there's a certain advantage to talking about it with someone familiar with the lifestyle."

"Susan Storm!"

"Who's boyfriend is even more of a lab-dweller than yours is."

"That-. Okay, yeah." She sighs. "Fine! Let me.. get changed, and I'll talk about my feelings with a guy who's totally straight."

"If it's any consolation, it's going to be pretty uncomfortable for me, too."