With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Darko · 2026-04-09T22:09:24+0100

Vaermina said:
The Fantastic Four forced Galactus back with the Ultimate Nullifier, and that backfired on them.

Doctor Strange forced Dormammu back with Time Stone, which could backfire on him at any moment given he no longer has the Time Stone.

And?

It still worked and they managed to save billions of people.

Their options also weren't exactly numerous.

Vaermina said:
am talking about the quality of the arguments he made in those cases, whether he was successful or not is immaterial to that

It's really not.

The fact that it worked can show that it's a good argument.

And you'll try to counter this by saying that his arguments were simplistic.

But here's the thing; sometimes people can't or won't see a certain issue or solution until it is pointed out to them, no matter how simple it is.

This can be for a variety of reasons.

The Terror Twins had childhood memories where the act of destruction was positive, at least one of their parents was an alcoholic, their education was poor, so they turned to crime instead of pursuing the legitimate solutions Paul gave them.

Hera has had thousands of years to invest in her relationship with Zeus, and anyone in her close family has probably given up on her relationship with Zeus to improve, and any Olympian worshippers wouldn't have told her to just do the obvious thing and divorce him because they either couldn't fathom that happening, or feared that they'd offend Zeus or Hera since she's the goddess of marriage.

Talia was raised in a cult that worshipped her father and it took Paul telling her about what he did to his previous daughter as well as pointing out several ways that he could have saved the planet for her to leave him.

Just because something is simple that doesn't mean that it's stupid.

CrazyNoVa · 2026-04-09T23:58:04+0100

Vaermina said:
I am talking about the quality of the arguments he made in those cases, whether he was successful or not is immaterial to that.

Except that it isn't? I've read the arguments he had with each of them, and for the most part, they were sound. And in some cases, he even promised them a way to get exactly what they wanted in a non-criminal way.

Vaermina · 2026-04-10T00:21:00+0100

Darko said:
And?

And, that's a completely different thing from talking someone around to your point of view.

Darko said:
The fact that it worked can show that it's a good argument.

In real life.

In fiction an argument working just shows that the author decided it works.

Darko said:
The Terror Twins had childhood memories where the act of destruction was positive, at least one of their parents was an alcoholic, their education was poor, so they turned to crime instead of pursuing the legitimate solutions Paul gave them.

Hera has had thousands of years to invest in her relationship with Zeus, and anyone in her close family has probably given up on her relationship with Zeus to improve, and any Olympian worshippers wouldn't have told her to just do the obvious thing and divorce him because they either couldn't fathom that happening, or feared that they'd offend Zeus or Hera since she's the goddess of marriage.

Talia was raised in a cult that worshipped her father and it took Paul telling her about what he did to his previous daughter as well as pointing out several ways that he could have saved the planet for her to leave him.

The low hanging fruit should already be picked.

Or to put it in other words, if a problem is so easy to fix that a few easily accessible bits of information can solve it, it should already be solved.

BR549 · 2026-04-10T05:04:24+0100

CrazyNoVa said:
Also, consider this: We know that Paul convinced Ronan, but we don't know exactly how he managed it. For all we know, maybe Paul had to pay some kind of price or make some sort of sacrifice to convince Ronan to not attack Earth, which may bite Paul back in the ass later.

As mentioned, we know exactly how Paul told Ronan to bugger off: he threatened to fast-track Earth's annexation by the Shi'ar, and asked if the Kree were ready to kick off an intergalactic war over a fundamentally insignificant planet. And they weren't.

In universe, though, the only people who know are Paul and Ronan. Ronan's too pissed to tell anyone, and Paul is taking the piss by letting everyone else wonder.

...what I am wondering about myself, though, is how the EMH adaptation of Secret Invasion worked out. Since if we go by the "episode air dates are in-universe real dates" convention, the entire thing would have taken place over three weeks from mid-May to early June, which seems just a little implausible. Logically one might presume they either pushed things back due to this Lantern dude possibly being an issue; it's simply been shifted further back in the timeline (something entirely logical); or Paul's ring picked up the fact that Cap had been replaced and then he put paid to the entire invasion in like five minutes.

mastermenthe said:
Yes, yes, Marvel is fucked, as always.
The question I have is: how fucked is Paul?

We may find out if we get to see more of Hank Pym's No-Good, Very Bad Week.

Ngamer11 · 2026-04-10T06:02:09+0100

BR549 said:
...what I am wondering about myself, though, is how the EMH adaptation of Secret Invasion worked out. Since if we go by the "episode air dates are in-universe real dates" convention, the entire thing would have taken place over three weeks from mid-May to early June, which seems just a little implausible. Logically one might presume they either pushed things back due to this Lantern dude possibly being an issue; it's simply been shifted further back in the timeline (something entirely logical); or Paul's ring picked up the fact that Cap had been replaced and then he put paid to the entire invasion in like five minutes.

I think I remember Mr Zoat saying that Paul will be replaced at some point, with the unfortunate Skrull tasked with impersonating him experiencing the negative effects of the orange light in full.

Mr Zoat · 2026-04-10T06:16:53+0100

16th June 2012
20:07 GMT -5

Okay, Janet's way too invested in this to leave the Mansion-. Unless she decided to spy on the School-. Which she probably won't do in case they somehow realise that she has the x-gene too. And she's not in the workshop or labs, because she only goes there when she's trying to persuade Henry to leave them. The building isn't shaking, so Skurge and Hulk are probably in the lounge. I should ask-.

I should remember that I own a power ring. Ring, where's Janet?

Janet is located in the gymnasium.

Thank you.

A series of transitions later, and I'm there, Antony's modifications to make each part of the Mansion airtight delaying me only slightly. Janet's in gym clothes on the running machine, and she looks up and then smiles when I walk through the door.

"Hey Paul! I thought you didn't need to exercise? Or are you just here to cheer me on?"

"Ahh… No." I use the time I spend walking closer to try and work out what I'm going to say. 'Your boyfriend thinks I'm trying to steal you and he's okay with that' probably isn't the thing to say. If only because the fact that he said that would probably torpedo their… Difficult relationship. "So…"

"Has Anna Marie sent you a message?" She picks up her phone from the stand on the running machine. "I've been messaging her, but I think she's got her cell on silent."

"No. No, I… I'm sure that she'll contact me if she needs to, but otherwise, I'm not hovering."

Her face falls. "Am I hovering?" She puts her phone down, then turns the screen over. "Do you think I'm hovering?"

"Ah… That depends how many messages you've sent. I think one is fine… Maybe two. But if she's not replying then more than that-"

She winces.

"-then… Maybe cool it down?"

"Yeah, I just… Yeah."

"Of course, if she hasn't replied then she probably hasn't read them, so I wouldn't worry."

"I just wanna make sure she's having a good time. I didn't even get to interrogate-. Talk to.. Aaron."

"Aaron is a perfectly pleasant young masculine humanoid. You can interrogate him if they go on a second date."

"Talk to! Not 'interrogate'!"

"Of course. Um." 'Us raising a daughter together is making your boyfriend uncomfortable' isn't a good approach either, because she'll see that as him having a problem with her relationship with Anna Marie, which will at the very least cause a flaming row. Ah. Well, Steven did say that honesty is the best policy. "I've got a very awkward thing I need to talk about with you. Um. Don't really know how to do it."

"I don't mind guys leaving the seat up. I can work a toilet seat."

"That-. Thank you, but that wasn't it. Um. So, Henry appears to be-"

She snorts dismissively.

"-under the impression-."

"Is he in the lab again?"

"… Yes. He appears to be under the impression that me asking you to help raising Anna Marie-"

Her eyes narrow, and she stabs the 'stop' button. Oh dear.

"-was part of a seduction technique -that I'm trying to woo you- and I wanted to make it clear that while I consider you a very dear friend and am grateful for your help with Anna Marie, I-."

"What? What?" She comes to a halt. "What?"

"I'm not interested in you that way, and even if I was, I'm not the sort of person who'd try and 'cut in' like that."

Her hands are on her hips. "What are you even talking about?"

"As I said-."

"I know you're not-! Gah! Obviously!"

"Oh-" I smile, relieved. "-good. I was worried that-."

"You're gay!"

"Ah. Huh?"

"See this?" She gestures to her sports bra. "I was running. You weren't looking."

"Yes?"

"Even Steve looks. For, like, half a second, and you have to really be watching to spot it-"

"Um."

"-but he does and you don't. And you turned down that Black Cat girl!"

"Black Cat stole the power ring and led me on a chase halfway across the city in a whole mess that could have easily been resolved with a short conversation."

"She was all over you."

"She's an adroit manipulator. She was just trying to get a positive outcome for herself. I got maybe two honest sentences out of her all day."

"Yeah, I saw her 'honest sentences'. I thought she was padding her outfit."

"She-. No-. I mean, it was thick leather for protection, but she didn't-" My hands are making curve shapes over my pectorals. "-pad-. No."

"Damn." She raises her eyebrows. "She musta drunk her milk."

"So I'm glad that I didn't give you the wrong impression-."

"So you're not gay?"

"I… I don't think so? I didn't really have a strong opinion, but I've been in the men's changing room when Steven was naked, and I… I didn't feel any desire.. towards him? And I figure that if you're not into Captain America then you're-" I shake my head. "-probably not into men."

She nods, looking away. "That tracks. Shoot."

"So now that we've established that-."

She frowns at me. "So what's wrong with me, then?"

"That's a question that no man with any sense will answer. But I can use the power ring to suppress instinctive reactions."

I then step closer and bend down, purposefully staring right at her-.

"Okay okay!" She puts her right arm across her chest. "I didn't actually want you to!"

I straighten up. "The point is that I'm not unaware that your relationship with Henry has… Deteriorated, and if you want to talk to someone about it, I'm here."

"See, when I thought you were gay-."

"What's the alternative? Natasha?"

"I have other friends!"

"But you'll fallen out over hero stuff and there's a certain advantage to talking about it with someone familiar with the lifestyle."

"Susan Storm!"

"Who's boyfriend is even more of a lab-dweller than yours is."

"That-. Okay, yeah." She sighs. "Fine! Let me.. get changed, and I'll talk about my feelings with a guy who's totally straight."

"If it's any consolation, it's going to be pretty uncomfortable for me, too."

HeartlessNobody13 · 2026-04-10T06:30:56+0100

So not all Orange Light users of Paul are Bi or Pansexual. Or maybe it's just because the interest was for Superboy, not exactly like you've shown any other notable interest in male characters. Funny update either way

Darko · 2026-04-10T06:32:13+0100

Vaermina said:
And, that's a completely different thing from talking someone around to your point of view.

Convincing someone to do what you want sometimes requires using various methods.

Vaermina said:
In real life.

In fiction an argument working just shows that the author decided it works

Or it shows that the author thought things through and treated the characters in a logical way that would make a reasonable decision that's consistent with their character and motivations.

Vaermina said:
The low hanging fruit should already be picked.

Or to put it in other words, if a problem is so easy to fix that a few easily accessible bits of information can solve it, it should already be solved.

You are shockingly naive.

Lots of problems have simple solutions, or even if the solution is complicated you can still see it.

That doesn't mean that people will use those solutions for their problems either due to their own ignorance or emotional reasons.

BR549 said:
what I am wondering about myself, though, is how the EMH adaptation of Secret Invasion worked out. Since if we go by the "episode air dates are in-universe real dates" convention, the entire thing would have taken place over three weeks from mid-May to early June, which seems just a little implausible. Logically one might presume they either pushed things back due to this Lantern dude possibly being an issue; it's simply been shifted further back in the timeline (something entirely logical); or Paul's ring picked up the fact that Cap had been replaced and then he put paid to the entire invasion in like five minutes.

Ngamer11 said:
I think I remember Mr Zoat saying that Paul will be replaced at some point, with the unfortunate Skrull tasked with impersonating him experiencing the negative effects of the orange light in full

I think it was mentioned that they'd use a force field generator to simulate a power ring.

And Paul may not be able to detect them.

The Skrulls are an advanced civilization, so they probably have ways to hide things like their genetic signature from scanners.

Heck, in the comics they apparently used alchemy to shape shift.

Mr Zoat said:
"I… I don't think so? I didn't really have a strong opinion, but I've been in the men's changing room when Steven was naked, and I… I didn't feel any desire.. towards him? And I figure that if you're not into Captain America then you're-" I shake my head. "-probably not into men

Huh.

So this version isn't bisexual.

BR549 · 2026-04-10T06:37:35+0100

Darko said:
I think it was mentioned that they'd use a force field generator to simulate a power ring.

And Paul may not be able to detect them.

The Skrulls are an advanced civilization, so they probably have ways to hide things like their genetic signature from scanners.

That's fair. So presumably the invasion has been postponed one way or another, since I'm pretty sure it would have come up by now if it had been at its canonical place in the EMH timeline!

Frozen20XX · 2026-04-10T06:58:47+0100

Darko said:
So this version isn't bisexual.

I mean, Paragon OL didn't really learn that until he reached Enlightenment if I'm remembering things correctly.

Although I wonder if Janet just forgot he's dating Hela... unless I missed the part where they stopped?

Ngamer11 · 2026-04-10T07:09:48+0100

Mr Zoat said:
"Black Cat stole the power ring and led me on a chase halfway across the city in a whole mess that could have easily been resolved with a short conversation."

"She was all over you."

"She's an adroit manipulator. She was just trying to get a positive outcome for herself. I got maybe two honest sentences out of her all day."

Now you've got me curious as to why Black Cat did this.

"Yeah, I saw her 'honest sentences'. I though she was padding her outfit."

That should say 'thought'.

Chojin Patriarch · 2026-04-10T07:14:00+0100

Mr Zoat said:
16th June 2012
20:07 GMT -5

Okay, Janet's way too invested in this to leave the Mansion-. Unless she decided to spy on the School-. Which she probably won't do in case they somehow realise that she has the x-gene too. And she's not in the workshop or labs, because she only goes there when she's trying to persuade Henry to leave them. The building isn't shaking, so Skurge and Hulk are probably in the lounge. I should ask-.

Still crazy to see Skurge and Amora getting along with the heroes. I do hope the Enchantress is sticking to the light side of the law, maybe even finding she enjoys it. But for now, awkwardness with Jan...

I should remember that I own a power ring. Ring, where's Janet?

Janet is located in the gymnasium.

Thank you.

...A little sus, given the recent discussion of Skrulls and Secret Invasion. Important clue, or red-herring scatter-brains? Who besides Mr Zoat knowns?

A series of transitions later, and I'm there, Antony's modifications to make each part of the Mansion airtight delaying me only slightly. Janet's in gym clothes on the running machine, and she looks up and then smiles when I walk through the door.

"Hey Paul! I thought you didn't need to exercise? Or are you just here to cheer me on?"

I wouldn't be surprised to find the airlock-style gates also get in the way of things like Ant-Man and Wasp getting about too. With the same level of understanding annoyance.

"Ahh… No." I use the time I spend walking closer to try and work out what I'm going to say. 'Your boyfriend thinks I'm trying to steal you and he's okay with that' probably isn't the thing to say. If only because the fact that he said that would probably torpedo their… Difficult relationship. "So…"

Maybe couch that in nicer language. Honestly, Jan and Hank aren't the best match, true. Still, at least they get along better than her Ultimate Marvel version (also a mutant, probably the inspiration...)

"Has Anna Marie sent you a message?" She picks up her phone from the stand on the running machine. "I've been messaging her, but I think she's got her cell on silent."

"No. No, I… I'm sure that she'll contact me if she needs to, but otherwise, I'm not hovering."

And if she hasn't sent anything now, she's not likely to unless there's an actual super-villain attack.

Her face falls. "Am I hovering?" She puts her phone down, then turns the screen over. "Do you think I'm hovering?"

"Ah… That depends how many messages you've sent. I think one is fine… Maybe two. But if she's not replying then more than that-"

She winces.

Oooh, boy. Jan may well be a bit of a helicopter ~~mom~~ big sis.

"-then… Maybe cool it down?"

"Yeah, I just… Yeah."

And maybe send one last message apologising for all the rest. Preferably with a big 'Read this first' tag.

"Of course, if she hasn't replied then she probably hasn't read them, so I wouldn't worry."

"I just wanna make sure she's having a good time. I didn't even get to interrogate-. Talk to.. Aaron."

Ah, Freudian slip, eh?

"Aaron is a perfectly pleasant young masculine humanoid. You can interrogate him if they go on a second date."

"Talk to! Not 'interrogate'!"

Slip, petticoat and skirt, really.

"Of course. Um." 'Us raising a daughter together is making your boyfriend uncomfortable' isn't a good approach either, because she'll see that as him having a problem with her relationship with Anna Marie, which will at the very least cause a flaming row. Ah. Well, Steven did say that honesty is the best policy. "I've got a very awkward thing I need to talk about with you. Um. Don't really know how to do it."

The problem with honesty is that Steve also has the charisma to prevent the other person going off.

"I don't mind guys leaving the seat up. I can work a toilet seat."

"That-. Thank you, but that wasn't it. Um. So, Henry appears to be-"

Hoo boy, just gonna say it outright, huh?

She snorts dismissively.

"-under the impression-."

"Is he in the lab again?"

Hardly a new behaviour. I suspect he uses the lab as his 'man space' to avoid her at times...

"… Yes. He appears to be under the impression that me asking you to help raising Anna Marie-"

Her eyes narrow, and she stabs the 'stop' button. Oh dear.

Tread carefully, AMH!OL, this is a big old minefield that only a specific kind of Power Ring could help with, and it ain't yours.

"-was part of a seduction technique -that I'm trying to woo you- and I wanted to make it clear that while I consider you a very dear friend and am grateful for your help with Anna Marie, I-."

"What? What?" She comes to a halt. "What?"

Okay, that seems to have derailed her train of thought a little. She was ramping up the 'what's wrong with my relationship with Anna Marie?' angle for sure.

"I'm not interested in you that way, and even if I was, I'm not the sort of person who'd try and 'cut in' like that."

Her hands are on her hips. "What are you even talking about?"

...That's a surprisingly calm response for being told 'Your husband thinks you're being chased by another man'...

"As I said-."

"I know you're not-! Gah! Obviously!"

Well, thank goodness for that... Wait, why?

"Oh-" I smile, relieved. "-good. I was worried that-."

"You're gay!"

And the facepalms can be heard around the world.

"Ah. Huh?"

"See this?" She gestures to her sports bra. "I was running. You weren't looking."

That means he's too polite to look. Or he's seen better (quite likely given Hela, vavavoom.) ...Or he's suppressing his hormones here.

"Yes?"

"Even Steve looks. For, like, half a second, and you have to really be watching to spot it-"

Look, even Steve is a mortal man. And one old-fashioned enough to know a glance is okay, as long as you don't linger without the lady's permission.

"Um."

"-but he does and you don't. And you turned down that Black Cat girl!"

Who is what, eighteen, nineteen? (And yes, I know they're different universes, but it's pretty close?)

"Black Cat stole the power ring and led me on a chase halfway across the city in a whole mess that could have easily been resolved with a short conversation."

"She was all over you."

Damn, that could have gone horribly bad if someone else had gotten it. Like, full-Larfleeze bad.

"She's an adroit manipulator. She was just trying to get a positive outcome for herself. I got maybe two honest sentences out of her all day."

"Yeah, I saw her 'honest sentences'. I though she was padding her outfit."

Got to wonder how some versions can do what she does with those 'jewels' tucked in there. Especially the ones with the real low zipper.

"She-. No-. I mean, it was thick leather for protection, but she didn't-" My hands are making curve shapes over my pectorals. "-pad-. No."

"Damn." She raises her eyebrows. "She musta drunk her milk."

Most common 'superpower' for a reason!

"So I'm glad that I didn't give you the wrong impression-."

"So you're not gay?"

Come on, AMH!OL, tell her about Hela, really blow her mind.

"I… I don't think so? I didn't really have a strong opinion, but I've been in the men's changing room when Steven was naked, and I… I didn't feel any desire.. towards him? And I figure that if you're not into Captain America then you're-" I shake my head. "-probably not into men."

Maybe. Either you're fiddling with your hormones or you're the walking dead, because holy fuck... Peak human indeed.

She nods, looking away. "That tracks. Shoot."

"So now that we've established that-."

The last thing he needs is any rumours like that about him getting spread...

She frowns at me. "So what's wrong with me, then?"

"That's a question that no man with any sense will answer. But I can use the power ring to suppress instinctive reactions."

See, now that is how you dodge the minefield.

I then step closer and bend down, purposefully staring right at her-.

"Okay okay!" She puts her right arm across her chest. "I didn't actually want you to!"

While they may not be so impressive as some of her colleagues, they're perfectly fine.

I straighten up. "The point is that I'm not unaware that your relationship with Henry has… Deteriorated, and if you want to talk to someone about it, I'm here."

"See, when I thought you were gay-."

Consider this, Jan: He has made it clear he will be entirely truthful with you.

"What's the alternative? Natasha?"

"I have other friends!"

And I'm sure Nat has her own problems to worry about...

"But you'll fallen out over hero stuff and there's a certain advantage to talking about it with someone familiar with the lifestyle."

"Susan Storm!"

Okay, she might be a good choice. If you can catch her in between adventures.

"Who's boyfriend is even more of a lab-dweller than yours is."

"That-. Okay, yeah." She sighs. "Fine! Let me.. get changed, and I'll talk about my feelings with a guy who's totally straight."

"If it's any consolation, it's going to be pretty uncomfortable for me, too."

And in Niffleheim, Hela is probably giggling to herself. Only because guffawing out loud would not be dignified of the Goddess of Death.

So, the matter is being aired out, at least between two of the parties involved. Though trying to get Hank out of his lab right now would be damn near impossible. Unless he comes out at just the wrong moment to find them talking and leaps to the wrong conclusion with Giant-man-sized boots on. ...And now I've said that, it's worryingly likely, isn't it?

B00ki5h · 2026-04-10T08:26:17+0100

HeartlessNobody13 said:
So not all Orange Light users of Paul are Bi or Pansexual. Or maybe it's just because the interest was for Superboy, not exactly like you've shown any other notable interest in male characters. Funny update either way

I was sort of under the impression he was a demi. None of the dates or sexual encounters(Praise Eros) happen without him knowing the other character well enough that you could argue that they're already in some sort of relationship.

inglorius · 2026-04-10T08:32:31+0100

B00ki5h said:
I was sort of under the impression he was a demi.

Get psychoanalized in your own thread, Zoat. Lmao.

Mr Zoat · 2026-04-10T08:34:18+0100

Ngamer11 said:
Now you've got me curious as to why Black Cat did this.

A combination of wanting it for a job and the orange light whispering to her.

That should say 'thought'.

Thank you, corrected.

B00ki5h said:
I was sort of under the impression he was a demi.

To the best of my knowledge both of my parents are mortal humans, but I'm choosing to take it as a complement.

Jankl · 2026-04-10T08:50:10+0100

Mr Zoat said:
To the best of my knowledge both of my parents are human, but I'm choosing to take it as a complement

I think he meant Demisexual. It refers to people who only become physically attracted to someone after forming a strong Emotional bond.

Duke Long · 2026-04-10T09:04:21+0100

Mr Zoat said:
"Damn." She raises her eyebrows. "She musta drunk her milk."

Confused me for a bit because I associate milk with bones, but I think the joke is that cats like milk? And on a mechanical level I suppose milk usually contains a lot of fat.

Mr Zoat said:
"But you'll fallen out over hero stuff and there's a certain advantage to talking about it with someone familiar with the lifestyle."

'you've'

Mr Zoat said:
"Who's boyfriend is even more of a lab-dweller than yours is."

'Whose'

Fynx · 2026-04-10T09:26:16+0100

Mr Zoat said:
"Oh yes, and if I knew what I was looking for I'd do it anyway, but…" I shrug. "I don't. And none of the old pictures are good enough for facial recognition scans, so that's out too."

If he gets some free time, he could scan for advanced robots. After excluding the more common ones like doombots, LMDs, etc, there shouldn't be too many left that he couldn't knock it out in an afternoon.

Ngamer11 · 2026-04-10T09:34:44+0100

Mr Zoat said:
A combination of wanting it for a job and the orange light whispering to her.

How often does this version of Paul need to fight people who're drawn to his ring?

With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

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