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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

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Ardy said:
At least it's not Rocket....
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Right; that's part fifteen.

Idkusername said:
Hey, Mr Zoat, are you not gonna bring up that clone of Big A that fell in love with a black Brazilian beauty and has a satisfying home life with his 'mixed race' children?
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Is that likely to be persuasive? Overgirl will likely, and correctly, identify the attack as an appeal to authority, and respond that National Socialism isn't a cult and isn't any less valid just because Hitler's clone isn't a believer.

A slightly more likely argument to work is to identify who/what Captain Nazi is, and mention that basically everyone on her Earth who identifies as German is being magically brainwashed into believing in Nazism.

Darko said:
What was the Luthor League in the comics exactly, I don't think it was elaborated?
Were they some kind of resistance movement?
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A short wiki-walk says they were a group of aspiring resistance fighters who were manipulated into performing acts of terrorism. By the local Dr Sivana, no less.
 
I am a bit confused over why OL is being so indirect in his refutation of Nazi Ideology. Is there currently any reason for OL to not flat out explain that Jews and other persecuted minorities are not inherently inferior or evil?
 
He is trying to get her to see that, but knows that she would be resistant to such an idea, especially if he was so direct, seeing as she was raised in a culture that thought that, so he is trying to show her evidence and carefully guide her to that conclusion.
I am pretty sure that even if he does succeeds in making her accept other races she will be more along the lines "You are a credit to your people" type of acceptance.
 
I forgot, how "mixed" is Atlantis?

It would sort of make sense that people living in deep water would evolve pale skin due to not having a need for pigments.

But their physiology is magic induced, so that renders it kinda mute.
 
Does anyone else not see the connection between Overgirl asking about the Citadel and OLs story about Jews winning the Iron Cross? Cos it seems like a total non sequitur to me

Also, Paul saying about how Hitler has done more with Kryptonian technology that Superman is a little disingenuous since Hitler had seventy years and the resources of an entire nation whereas Superman has had thirty years, assuming he started as an infant, and the resources of a farmboy turned reporter

And isn't Kon's armour made out of Nth metal? Which lets him fly?
 
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jonasquinn said:
Does anyone else not see the connection between Overgirl asking about the Citadel and OLs story about Jews winning the Iron Cross? Cos it seems like a total non sequitur to me

Also, Paul saying about how Hitler has done more with Kryptonian technology that Superman is a little disingenuous since Hitler had seven years and the resources of an entire nation whereas Superman has had thirty years, assuming he started as an infant, and the resources of a farmboy turned reporter

And isn't Kon's armour made out of Nth metal? Which lets him fly?
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he's essentially say I killed an enemy you killed people who risked their lives for you in war.

There's a difference.
 
Darko said:
Speaking off topic, there was a recent comic in the whole Year of the Villain, that featured a Martian kryptonian hybrid that was his universes version of Supes.
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And which oddly had a Bat-Lex since the universe and the point of the universe was the BatLantern, since in Darkest Knight was the inspiration of that universe.

Also showed up in the latest Dial H introducing a Dove/Spectre, Anti-Monitor/Harley Quinn, Dr Fate/Firestorm, Starfire/Cyborg, Booster Gold/Captain Atom, Plastic Man/Blue Beetle, Guy Gardner/Batgirl, Robin/Ravager, Etrigan/Zatanna, WonderHawk (WW/Hawkwoman), Nightwing/Troia, Question/Huntress, Miss Super-Martian (Superboy/Miss Martian), Miguel the Street (Danny the Street/the latest Dial H user), Red Tornado/Mr Terrific, Bat-lantern, Star Sapphire/Catwoman, and Jokero got mentioned (Bizarro/Joker I would assume).

And the Atom merged with some blonde woman, I have no idea from the costume.

Universes like that I feel have untapped potential for stories.

I mean, some person winding up in the DC multiverse and having a reaction along the lines of "Why is Superman green?" or "Why are all the superheroes robots?" or "Superdemon? Really?
 
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Kladurs fathers, both his biological and adoptive are black, his adoptive had been genetically altered to have gills.
There were several characters shown in Atlantis to have dark skin, but aside from Kaldur and his father i am not if they were black.

Hey Zoat if the nazis took over Atlantis in your story, are they supporting the purebloods while opressing the other non pureblood atlanteans, assuming they aren't just all purebloods in this earth because everyone got the same grafts that made them purebloods?
Or have they wiped out the non purebloods?

Will Ahri'ahn make a appearance in your story?
 
,Now that Stsword mentioned it, can someone explain to me what the H Dial in this story was?
I reread the episode Z-E-R-O but i am still having trouble understanding what it was.
Is it alien magi tech?
Human magi tech?
Both?
Highly advanced tech with no magic?
Pure magic?
Something else?
And Zoat if you answer this one please, please don't just write something else as the answer.
 
Cherico said:
he's essentially say I killed an enemy you killed people who risked their lives for you in war.

There's a difference.
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I guess I see that but it feels like there's way more significant points he could've made

Like how the Citadelians were all literally designed to only be capable of violence and oppression, how they were only capable of higher thought because of chips in their brains, and he only had to win one battle

Whereas the people the Nazis killed were all individual people with separate personalities and talents, were just as intelligent and aware as any other person and were killed through a series of long, brutal and painful programmes
 
Maxx Crowley said:
Be the first time I'll actively cheer for a Rocket Rant.

Seriously...just seriously, couple of Kryptonite bullets to the back of the nazi's skull OL. Can't believe it's taking so long to get it done.
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To be fair, if you have an extremist that's already doubting their beliefs right in front of you and you have the means to push them over the edge into potentially rejecting those beliefs don't you have a moral obligation to do so?

After all, if you kill an extremist with doubts that just sends the message that there's no point in having doubts cos you'll be killed either way
Sharp Card said:
This kindof annoys me.

Either Paul is lying or the DC world is very different with very different selective pressures to our world. Genocides used to be a dime a dozen in ancient human history (hell, the Bible alone mentions dozens) and I doubt humans are the most bloodthirsty species out there.
The only slightly unusual things about the Nazi genocide were its timing (e.g. 20th century) and that the Jews had been peacefully living with the rest of the Germans for a while (normally you genocide as part of an invasion). But even that combination has been frequently repeated.

Overgirl feels a bit like a Nazi strawman actually... e.g. conflating the murder of "defectives" and Jews, the Jews weren't considered defective/inferior in the same sense that gypsies, blacks and dyslexics were, they were considered innately selfish and untrustworthy, not unintelligent or incapable. One mass murder was done to "improve the gene pool" the other because "it's us or them".
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There's an important distinction between genocide and extermination campaigns, the former is tha targeted killing of a large amount of people that belong to a certain group, the latter is a systemic campaign orchestrated to render a certain group extinct and that is what the Nazis did

Genocides probably aren't all that rare on the galactic scale, though with the GLC they probably aren't common either, but actively carrying out an incredibly expensive, many year long, brutal extermination of a significant chunk of your species' population for no reason other than hatred and fake science when any similarity advanced society would have dozens of other options? Probably extremely rare

Also, if you're argument of a Nazi straw man is "you're mixing up the reasons that they horribly genocided people" then you're kinda making the point for him
 
Wasn't there that one universe where Supes was a nazi, but was also blond?
I don't remember which universe it was, only that Supes seemed to be pretty much a nazi bastard, instead of being conflicted like Karl, and Leatherwing flirting with an alien woman who threatened to castrate him.
 
Mr Zoat said:
"Recognized, Aqualad, B zero two."

Ohhhh….

Fiddle.
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AkazilliaDeNaro said:
Oh this conversation will go well.
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f2F5tqY.gif


Ct613hulu said:
I am a bit confused over why OL is being so indirect in his refutation of Nazi Ideology. Is there currently any reason for OL to not flat out explain that Jews and other persecuted minorities are not inherently inferior or evil?
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As mentioned, he's steering her to reach this conclusion on her own, which is a lot more effective than applying it directly to the forehead.

Maxx Crowley said:
Seriously...just seriously, couple of Kryptonite bullets to the back of the nazi's skull OL. Can't believe it's taking so long to get it done.
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What crime, exactly, has she committed on Earth-16, let alone what capital crime?
 
BR549 has a point, she hasn't commited any crimes on earth 16, aside from maybe some immigration offences, and may have only been involved in traditional superheroics on her earth, instead of actively killing non aryan ethnicities.
The only bad thing about her is that she believes in some bullshit philosophy and works for a government that encourages said bullshit philosophy.
 
Darko said:
What was the Luthor League in the comics exactly, I don't think it was elaborated?
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It wasn't. We get one line.
Zoat will the SI meet Overman during this episode, or anytime in your story and will he go to earth 10?
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No, probably.
Handlewithcare said:
I forgot, how "mixed" is Atlantis?
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Not very. Depending on which part your in the locals will mostly look european or north african.
Darko said:
Hey Zoat if the nazis took over Atlantis in your story, are they supporting the purebloods while opressing the other non pureblood atlanteans, assuming they aren't just all purebloods in this earth because everyone got the same grafts that made them purebloods?
Or have they wiped out the non purebloods?
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Due to the difficulties in interracting with Atlantis at all, they mostly leave them to their own devices. Blood purists would have a lot in common with the National Socialists... If it wasn't for the fact that they tend to regard surface-dwellers as scum and don't want anything to do with them.
Will Ahri'ahn make a appearance in your story?
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Yes, Renegade only.
Darko said:
,Now that Stsword mentioned it, can someone explain to me what the H Dial in this story was?
I reread the episode Z-E-R-O but i am still having trouble understanding what it was.
Is it alien magi tech?
Human magi tech?
Both?
Highly advanced tech with no magic?
Pure magic?
Something else?
And Zoat if you answer this one please, please don't just write something else as the answer.
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No one in the setting knows.
Maxx Crowley said:
Be the first time I'll actively cheer for a Rocket Rant.

Seriously...just seriously, couple of Kryptonite bullets to the back of the nazi's skull OL. Can't believe it's taking so long to get it done.
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I think I've established by now that the SI is extremely unlikely to take that approach.
 
Darko said:
Wasn't there that one universe where Supes was a nazi, but was also blond?
I don't remember which universe it was, only that Supes seemed to be pretty much a nazi bastard, instead of being conflicted like Karl, and Leatherwing flirting with an alien woman who threatened to castrate him.
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Countdown to Adventure is when the blond enthusiastic Nazi Overman showed up.

DC also had another Nazi Superman pastiche- The Danner enhancile Ubermensch.

Nazis stole the Danner formula from Hugo and Ubermensch claimed to be enhanced by the same formula that made Iron Monroe what he is.
 
Stsword said:
Countdown to Adventure is when the blond enthusiastic Nazi Overman showed up.

DC also had another Nazi Superman pastiche- The Danner enhancile Ubermensch.

Nazis stole the Danner formula from Hugo and Ubermensch claimed to be enhanced by the same formula that made Iron Monroe what he is.
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In this story they didn't steal it. A couple of German eugenics enthusiasts who later joined the National Socialist party met him at a conference, and they were the only ones crazy enough to take him semi-seriously. And that's how we got Ubermensch and Donner.
 
Will time travel be involved in meeting Ahri'ahn?

Is Ahri'ahn just a REALLY talented magician in your story that got his awesome power by himself without help from divine beings, like his post flashpoint characterization minus the help from Poseidon and that Triumvirate of sea gods?

Or is he like his comic counterpart, a demigod, someone who was blessed by a god, the Weaver in his case, or someone that used powerful artifacts, in the comics he used crystals that contained his fathers soul, his father in pre flashpoint being a god, while the post flashpoint version was just an atlantean royal?

I know the renegade mentioned that he may be the first, but i was wondering if he just forgot his pre flashpoint origins, like he forgot the Sword of the Fallen makes magical beings into mortals, and the paragon forgetting that Blue Devil was made into a demon by that other demon, or did you make your version of Ahri'ahn just a powerful mortal magician.
 
Darko said:
Will time travel be involved in meeting Ahri'ahn?
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No.
Is Ahri'ahn just a REALLY talented magician in your story that got his awesome power by himself without help from divine beings, like his post flashpoint characterization minus the help from Poseidon and that Triumvirate of sea gods?
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If it involves Nu52, it effectively didn't happen.
Or is he like his comic counterpart, a demigod, someone who was blessed by a god, the Weaver in his case, or someone that used powerful artifacts, in the comics he used crystals that contained his fathers soul, his father in pre flashpoint being a god, while the post flashpoint version was just an atlantean royal?

I know the renegade mentioned that he may be the first, but i was wondering if he just forgot his pre flashpoint origins, like he forgot the Sword of the Fallen makes magical beings into mortals, and the paragon forgetting that Blue Devil was made into a demon by that other demon, or did you make your version of Ahri'ahn just a powerful mortal magician.
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The last one. I prefer the idea that a person could work and magic and get really good rather than if requiring specific birth circumstances.
 
So powerful mortal magician, with mortal parents, who got his powers by his own hard work and talent without divine help, more or less like his post flashpoint characterization.

Will there be any other ancient magicians coming to the modern day, like Manitou and Dawn Raven?
I seem to remember that they joined the JL in the comics.
 
Darko said:
So powerful mortal magician, with mortal parents, who got his powers by his own hard work and talent without divine help, more or less like his post flashpoint characterization.
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You take that back.
Will there be any other ancient magicians coming to the modern day, like Manitou and Dawn Raven?
I seem to remember that they joined the JL in the comics.
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I don't currently plan to involve them as I'm trying to keep time travel hard to do. But I suppose that it's possible.
 
If it walks like a duck, looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, then it is a duck. And if a character has some of the history and characteristicsof his post flashpoint character then he is more or less like that portrayal of that character, minus being crazy because of an alien scarab, like post fp Ahri'ahn was portrayed as, and probably being more in line with his pre fp personality

You already used one concept that was first introduced in the post fp comics, that being Kon's name meaning abomination and Kryptons less than stellar history with clones, all of which were introduced during Supergirl and that whole H'el thing, though in your case you made your version of kryptonians history with their clones less bloody, them being given rights while in the comics they went to war.
At least i'm highly positive that this concept was introduced in post fp, because i haven't been able to find any evidence to the contrary.

And while time travel may be off the table, magical preservation or hibernation, like what Karmang uses, hasn't been taken off so that could be a way to introduce the Raven's and Ahri'ahn.

Speaking of time travel, what happened to those time travelers that appeared in the paragon side before the Mandated episode?
 
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jonasquinn said:
To be fair, if you have an extremist that's already doubting their beliefs right in front of you and you have the means to push them over the edge into potentially rejecting those beliefs don't you have a moral obligation to do so?

After all, if you kill an extremist with doubts that just sends the message that there's no point in having doubts cos you'll be killed either way
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To be fair. Don't care. Nazi.

BR549 said:
What crime, exactly, has she committed on Earth-16, let alone what capital crime?
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The crime of being a Nazi in The first degree. With the secondary crime of annoying me with her Nazi bullshit.

This is really not a subject I'm going to budge on or play "yeah but" with.

Mr Zoat said:
I think I've established by now that the SI is extremely unlikely to take that approach.
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Yes well, just like the Kon ship...a boy can dream.
 
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Don't worry about the Kon ship Maxx, Zoat said that he may do a April Fools episode in year 4 where the SI goes to a universe where he has a harem of well probably every single beautiful woman in this story and Kon and M'gann are in a polyamorus relationship. So your dream could still happen, you just have to have hope.
If he does this then i can't help but imagine Queen Bee giving him information on the Light in exchange for some... private time.;)

But seriously even if he writes an episode like this i believe that it will have more character development and beautiful interactions between the characters than what most people print today.

How much does the rest of the world know about paragons naked statue that he made in Byalia.
It would be difficult to keep it covered if the country is in a civil war.
 
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