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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Reader mode
Zeroguard said:
Bizzare thing to me is that the nazi's were only really socialist in name and out of necessity, wherever possible they actively pushed for little government involvement in stuff like banks and construction but they were basically forced to be involved if Hitler wanted to get the economy churning out tanks, planes and bullets for WW2. It's even noted from his associates that he stated many times that he loathed socialists and socialism as it goes against social darwinism which was so predominant at the time. They used those policies because otherwise Germany would've starved and likely collapsed without them. Its genuinely shocking to me that the nazi's of earth 10 actually stayed socialist once it became obvious that they had taken out any countries that were threats to them.
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Nope.

They nationalised a lot of stuff. That's Socialism, and Fasism.

They were all about Govenment control, to the point that they wanted to choose almost everything.


All Socialist/Communist nations in history, up to and including right now, the leaders have never let go of power.


The Nazi's were anti-Communist, but had very similar ideals. They just wanted it to stop at the limits of their race. While blaming/hating all other races that didn't somehow become respected.
 
Simonbob said:
Nope.

They nationalised a lot of stuff. That's Socialism, and Fasism.

They were all about Govenment control, to the point that they wanted to choose almost everything.


All Socialist/Communist nations in history, up to and including right now, the leaders have never let go of power.


The Nazi's were anti-Communist, but had very similar ideals. They just wanted it to stop at the limits of their race. While blaming/hating all other races that didn't somehow become respected.
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I mean if you look into Mussolini's writings (particularly his autobiography's his primary complaint about socialism and communism where based around the Italian socialist party which he viewed as betraying socialist principles leading to his "socialism is dead" rant.
 
Can someone clarify on who is Demetrios Prokopios? I don't believe I've ever come across him.
 
Simonbob said:
Nope.

They nationalised a lot of stuff. That's Socialism, and Fasism
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So is privatization.

"Fascist Italy was the only country that sold state-owned enterprises and assets to private firms in the 1920s; the next country to adopt this approach was Nazi Germany in the 1930s. The Italian privatizations included the sale of most state-owned telephone networks and services as well as the former state monopoly on match sale. The state monopoly on life insurance was eliminated, the metal machinery firm Ansaldo was returned to private ownership (after having been nationalized by the previous government) and private firms were awarded concessions to set up tolls on motorways."

"In the 1930s, Nazi Germany transferred many companies and services from state ownership into the private sector, while other Western capitalist countries were moving in the opposite direction and strove for increased state ownership of industry. In most cases, this was a return to the private sector of firms which had been taken into state ownership by the democratic government of the Weimar Republic as a result of the Great Depression. The firms returned to private ownership by the Nazi government "belonged to a wide range of sectors: steel, mining, banking, local public utilities, shipyards, ship-lines, railways, etc." and in addition some public services began to be provided by semi-private entities that were connected to the Nazi Party rather than the German state."

Uxas said:
Can someone clarify on who is Demetrios Prokopios? I don't believe I've ever come across him.
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Greek god of wealth, Plutus.
 
Hopefully we get to see Ice too. We've started seeing Fire more, so we should also see her best friend in action. Also, this would be a good time to show the two are good enough to join the Justice League in the near future.
 
Zoat are Fire and Ice going to join the League anytime in your story?
 
Simonbob said:
I've never seen that.

Where did you hear that?
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I've known that Nazis were the worst socialists ever for quite a while, since they were pro-big business.

Pro-big business though is not the same as being pro-capitalism.

The Nazis did very much want control, you are right, but you were wrong about the nature of the control they wanted.

They didn't want to be big business, they wanted big business co-opted.


Here's a paper about Fascist Italy's privatization.

Here's a paper about Nazi Germany's privatization.
 
Hey when OL said to Beautia that he wants to bring gods back to work i thought of another YJ fic where the main character asks the gods to become superheroes so they can get power through worship and adoration so they can fight the dangers that come, like Darkseid and the Anti Monitor, and i was wondering if OL could try to get into contact with some gods and ask them to join the League?

They would get their worship, the renegade said that he and Superman are worshiped, the League gets several powerful new members and people may be become even more interested in magic.
Also they can switch religions, after the angel invasion while i am sure that many people had their faith reaffirmed and others switched to the Abrahamic faiths, but others may have abandoned the Abrahamic faith after seeing what colossal dicks angels can be, so they can switch to the worship of whatever god joins the League and their pantheon.

OL is trying to get old magic traditions revitalized and wants to make the League stronger so it would make sense if he does this.

The gods that joined in that fic were Isis, Thor, Kane, Hephaestus, Pele, Diana(roman goddess of the hunt) and some members of the Hindu pantheon were thinking of joining.

Will some gods come to OL to help them get their worship, like he is doing with Melinoe, Hephaestus and Vulcan anytime in your story, i am pretty sure that he is going to get some kind of reputation in the divine circles if he continues doing that?

Plutos is the greek god of wealth who took on a mortal persona and is working on making sure the planets economy doesn't collapse in on itself, because he likes his job and didn't want to stop doing it even though few, if any, people remember or worship him.
 
Mr Zoat said:
It's unlikely. Neither really add enough.
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I mean this

"And, um…" Tora's head reappears. "What about me?"

"Your ex-nihilo ice construction ability is amazingly versatile and useful. I'm not sure exactly how precise your control is, but the potential during disasters… Floods, fires or.. droughts, actually, is considerable."
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seems to suggest that Ice adds quite a lot compared to the 16th century Yeoman.
 
Aeess can you clarify about that 16th century Yeoman, i don't think i get the meaning, is it some member on the League or something else?
 
Darko said:
Aeess can you clarify about that 16th century Yeoman, i don't think i get the meaning, is it some member on the League or something else?
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Its what the SI called Artemis once, basically calling her an medieval soldier, now that she has super powers and access to very advanced technology that description fits Green Arrow better.
 
Darko said:
Hey when OL said to Beautia that he wants to bring gods back to work i thought of another YJ fic where the main character asks the gods to become superheroes so they can get power through worship and adoration so they can fight the dangers that come, like Darkseid and the Anti Monitor, and i was wondering if OL could try to get into contact with some gods and ask them to join the League?

They would get their worship, the renegade said that he and Superman are worshiped, the League gets several powerful new members and people may be become even more interested in magic.
Also they can switch religions, after the angel invasion while i am sure that many people had their faith reaffirmed and others switched to the Abrahamic faiths, but others may have abandoned the Abrahamic faith after seeing what colossal dicks angels can be, so they can switch to the worship of whatever god joins the League and their pantheon.

OL is trying to get old magic traditions revitalized and wants to make the League stronger so it would make sense if he does this.

The gods that joined in that fic were Isis, Thor, Kane, Hephaestus, Pele, Diana(roman goddess of the hunt) and some members of the Hindu pantheon were thinking of joining.
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No, because gods would not be able to manifest in the material world at anything like full power. Empowering a mortal champion is lots easier.
Will some gods come to OL to help them get their worship, like he is doing with Melinoe, Hephaestus and Vulcan anytime in your story, i am pretty sure that he is going to get some kind of reputation in the divine circles if he continues doing that?
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They might, but they're more likely to copy his techniques with their own devotees instead.
 
Speaking of gods, are the ones in your story able to exist and stay powerful even though they do not have worship?
I think you said once that they find it easier to manipulate the material universe if they have worship, but are still incredibly powerful even if they lack it though they find it a bit more difficult to manipulate the universe, while in the comics like the new issues of Lucifer they can appear to be near death if they lack worship, but i may be mistaken and was wondering if you could clear it up for me?

If gods are completely forgotten and are no longer worshiped, like say Shazams gods from the prehistoric pantheon, who i am sure only he still worships, then can they have any significant influence on the mortal universe like say the Olympians, who are not as widely worshiped as they once were but people still know they exist?
If gods are completely forgotten then do they die or stop existing, or even lose most of their powers until they are little more than a somewhat powerful mortal like it happens in the comics?

Who would win in a fight between Darkseid and Zeus, without Darkseid using the Anti Life that is, in your story?
I remember in the comics that Ares and Darkseid once manipulated Zeus and Izaya, who is supposed to be Darkseids equal, to try and kill each other and Highfather seemed confident that they can both kill each other.
The only fight that those two had i the comics i can remember is the post flashpoint comics where Darkseid drained Zeus of his power and used it to kill him.

Even if gods can't manifest at full power then can they at least join the League at whatever power level they do manifest in, which i am pretty sure would still be significant?
Though empowering champions is a good idea.
Are they unable to manifest at full power because they can damage the universe, or because they find it difficult and may lose some of their power, please clarify which of these three it is?
 
Darko said:
Speaking of gods, are the ones in your story able to exist and stay powerful even though they do not have worship?
I think you said once that they find it easier to manipulate the material universe if they have worship, but are still incredibly powerful even if they lack it though they find it a bit more difficult to manipulate the universe, while in the comics like the new issues of Lucifer they can appear to be near death if they lack worship, but i may be mistaken and was wondering if you could clear it up for me?

If gods are completely forgotten and are no longer worshiped, like say Shazams gods from the prehistoric pantheon, who i am sure only he still worships, then can they have any significant influence on the mortal universe like say the Olympians, who are not as widely worshiped as they once were but people still know they exist?

If gods are completely forgotten then do they die or stop existing, or even lose most of their powers until they are little more than a somewhat powerful mortal like it happens in the comics?
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I used the status in All His Engines. Old gods don't get weaker, it just gets harder for them to touch the material universe.
Who would win in a fight between Darkseid and Zeus, without Darkseid using the Anti Life that is, in your story?

I remember in the comics that Ares and Darkseid once manipulated Zeus and Izaya, who is supposed to be Darkseids equal, to try and kill each other and Highfather seemed confident that they can both kill each other.
The only fight that those two had i the comics i can remember is the post flashpoint comics where Darkseid drained Zeus of his power and used it to kill him.
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Such a fight could never happen.
Even if gods can't manifest at full power then can they at least join the League at whatever power level they do manifest in, which i am pretty sure would still be significant?
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Not really. Not compared to a top-level superhero.
Are they unable to manifest at full power because they can damage the universe, or because they find it difficult and may lose some of their power, please clarify which of these three it is?
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It's not so much 'difficult' as 'impossible'. They don't fit.
 
John At Dawn said:
Oh, I guess she can sound like a socialist-

Shoot her please. It won't help, but it will make me feel better.
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Okay, remember those gordanian slave traders the SI didn't exterminate? The ones who implanted explosives in their chattal's bodies and kept them in cages? Why do you think he'd decide to kill her after a few insults?
 
Navi-Hank said:
I thought he was an aspect of Pluto or something
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He is. He's also his own separate deity, either the son of Pluto and Persephone, or the son of Demeter and Iasion.

Mythology is even less concerned with consistency than the comic book industry.

Orion I feel is a perfect example of that. His parentage, his traits (in some stories he's a giant, in others he could walk on water), his love life, and who killed him and why and how, is all multiple choice.

In this story though, Plutus is a separate god.
 
Because people like to put the Nazis on a pedestal. A different pedestal than the weirdos who actually like Nazis, but a pedestal nonetheless.

Well, that and I guess people are a lot more willing to overlook fictional atrocities even when talking about what characters within that fiction should or should not be doing.
 
Handlewithcare said:
Okay, now Zoat is just teasing us. Hitler clone lives in Brazil, right?
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Mr Zoat said:
Yes.
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you know if Paul takes overgirl to see the man this is really going to shit on both their days.

I don't think he's yet gotten over he's a hitler clone and the crap Wolf And captain Nazi put him through.

AGAIN you bring Nazis to my doorstep!

"actually I didn't....."

LEAVE and never come back, I have had enough of nazis, enough of super powered maniacs and ENOUGH OF YOU!

See even clone Hitler hates Nazis .

" Raquel please shut up."
 
Yeah mythology really can be inconsistent.
People originally thought Poseidon was the leader of the Olympians and i am pretty sure they once thought that Zeus and Hades were the same person.
 
Mr Zoat said:
to hand
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Oh, huh. Interesting how British English uses "to" where American English uses "at".

Chojin Patriarch said:
Look up the connotations of the words you've been using
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I mean, to be fair, that's a little bit difficult -- the whole distinction of denotation vs. connotation is which one you can look up and which one is implied by social context. In this particular case it's become a universal enough meaning among English-speaking culture that the connotation has become the denotation; dictionary entries for it now include an "(offensive)" tag.

ForeverShogo said:
Or the stuff about keeping capitalism in check.
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Actually, she's right about that one. Unregulated capitalism results in the tragedy of the commons at one extreme and monopolistic abuse at the other extreme. You need the checks and balances provided by a government that can look at the greater good of the people instead of personal gain. But if you go too far the other way, you run into the inefficiencies and loss of quality that result from bureaucracy and a lack of competition, and you increase the amount of damage that corruption is capable of causing.

jasonh23761 said:
Otto (I think his name was)
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Otto is Cranius's assistant / body. The Hitler clone's name is Helmut Schreiber.
 
Oh, I wasn't intending to say I supported unregulated capitalism. So I guess it was more like a poorly worded addendum that Paul probably shouldn't be showing things that might reinforce her belief that National Socialism was a good thing.

"Earth 10's Brazil doesn't have slums and we kept capitalism in check. Perhaps we know what we're talking about after all."

Insert image of a smug Overgirl.
 
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