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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

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9adam4 said:
The most plausible process here, assuming Earth-like composition, is that the nitrogen making up most of the air will be split into carbon and hydrogen, and extra hydrogen would be borrowed from any water vapor in the air.

If so, the result would be marginally MORE oxygen, not less. This would be a heck of a lot less energy-intensive than transmuting the smaller amounts of oxygen.
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This is a power ring. You instruct it to do it, it does it. You say "I want that air to be methane" and it'll do whatever it takes to achieve that goal to the best of its ability. Besides, oxygen - alpha particle = carbon.

If you just want to talk about energy efficiency, combining carbon dioxide into ethylene would be the best bet. That doesn't even require nuclear transmutation.
 
Coda said:
If you just want to talk about energy efficiency, combining carbon dioxide into ethylene would be the best bet.
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You still need hydrogen from the water vapor, so you're still going to end up with excess oxygen.

You're right, though, that a reduction reaction turning the CO2 and H20 into CH4 and O2 would be purely chemical instead of nuclear, just pouring in the same energy you'll get out of the reverse process on combustion. Good call.
 
9adam4 said:
You still need hydrogen from the water vapor, so you're still going to end up with excess oxygen.
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I mean, you could split the alpha particles, too, get out two H+ ions and two H atoms. The science of it is beside the point; the power ring would just do it.

Mr Zoat said:
Most of the air in the cavern has the same composition that it started with, at least some of which is oxygen.
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Yes, I get that, which is why the flame bubble effect would happen. It would only be able to burn where methane is touching oxygen. This is perfectly legitimate and it would -- notably -- NOT be cavern-collapsingly explosive, but it wouldn't really be explosive at all (as it would be if it were a proper fuel-air mixture), just a rapid burn. Really this is more a heads-up for tonight's update than a correction for last night's, since your decision here has an influence on what will actually happen when it lights.
 
Coda said:
Yes, I get that, which is why the flame bubble effect would happen. It would only be able to burn where methane is touching oxygen. This is perfectly legitimate and it would -- notably -- NOT be cavern-collapsingly explosive, but it wouldn't really be explosive at all (as it would be if it were a proper fuel-air mixture), just a rapid burn. Really this is more a heads-up for tonight's update than a correction for last night's, since your decision here has an influence on what will actually happen when it lights.
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"Transmute the air" does not necessarily mean "Transmute all the air". And I'd imagine that the transmutation is taking place at a single point, series of points, hollow sphere, etc around that location instead of covering the entire area and transmuting all the air inside it all at once. So you'd get a mixture, not pure methane.
 
Buggy123 said:
"Transmute the air" does not necessarily mean "Transmute all the air". And I'd imagine that the transmutation is taking place at a single point, series of points, hollow sphere, etc around that location instead of covering the entire area and transmuting all the air inside it all at once. So you'd get a mixture, not pure methane.
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That all depends on what Komand'r wants. And if what she wants is to do what she was asked to the best of her ability, will she really settle for anything less than "do the thing"?
 
Coda said:
That all depends on what Komand'r wants. And if what she wants is to do what she was asked to the best of her ability, will she really settle for anything less than "do the thing"?
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I suppose it depends on a lot of factors; how big the area is, what specifically she wants, and how orange she's thinking right now. My impression is that the intent behind Grayven's order is "intimidate them by surrounding them with a flammable gas, so they stay prisoners and don't try to escape or attack, but don't suffocate or kill them yet", but she might have interpreted it differently that or might be too focused to stop and think about the intent of the order at all.
 
Buggy123 said:
intent behind Grayven's order is "intimidate them
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It's definitely not "intimidate" because he explicitly pointed out that the gas is odorless. They have no indication that anything is wrong except that it's hard to breathe (if the oxygen concentration is low enough).
 
Coda said:
It's definitely not "intimidate" because he explicitly pointed out that the gas is odorless. They have no indication that anything is wrong except that it's hard to breathe (if the oxygen concentration is low enough).
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Oh, good point. I'm not sure what the intent is, then.
 
SirKaid said:
I imagine it runs somewhere along the lines of "turn their everything into fire".
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Burn their faces - I'm assuming this will be non-lethal, very damaging both physically and mentally, and (considering they are shapeshifters with magic) recoverable from (eventually). Also, it might just be a mental effect - burning Martians are a thing and as far as we know all Martians might be somewhat fireproof. They fear fire, sure, but we don't know that there is a practical reason. If they are fireproof, only the explosion's concussive force will affect them.
 
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Field Trip (part 19)
  • Threadmarks
    • 9th January
    06:36 GMT

    I switch from focusing on my orange ring to focusing on my yellow one as the wave of fire ripples through the centre of the Manhunter formation, expanding as more oxygen is sucked into the methane cloud. Given how tough martians are, neither the force nor the heat are all that dangerous. Rationally, I'm sure that they appreciate that. Given that they're martians and they were getting images of fire telepathically shoved into their brains just before it happened, that doesn't matter.

    "Komand'r, with me. Finish off the patrol ship."

    Mother Box.

    Ping.

    I'm not happy about it either. They forced this on me. Hush tube.

    Ping.

    The tron lines on my armour turn yellow as I step through the hush tube into the centre of their formation, a construct knockoff of Kalibak's beta club appearing in each hand. Since killing them isn't the principal aim.

    The closest Manhunters turn to face me almost immediately, guns rising and telekinetic force pushing against me. But they're still off-kilter, and my environmental shield flares as I head for the closest. He drops in the air to get away, falling backwards without a moment's hesitation, plasma bolts from his gun splashing off my environmental shield.

    Two of them, anyway. Distracted by the now dying fires and having to shift mental gears to cope with me, he can't quite fly away faster with telekinesis than I can fly closer with ring and aero discs. My right club takes him in the X of his armour, the nerve stimulation effect working just as well on his living body armour as on the martian wearing it. With a closed helmet and no mouth he can't cry out in pain, but he loses his grip on his weapon and goes from controlled downwards flight to a plummet.

    Above me Komand'r and her G-Gnome passengers fly at the highest surviving patrol ship. One of the Manhunters screening it phases as her energy pulse intersects with his chest. The one on his right isn't quite so quick and is thrown back, armour smouldering and flaking at the site of the impact. The G-Gnome's horns start glowing to protect Komand'r mind as she generates a positron beam projector construct and fires it at the patrol ship. Martian warships use telekinetic shields which might well have been able to block that, but these are simple patrol ships. The beam flicks out, a thin line in the patrol ship's side exploding as the positrons explosively neutralise the electrons in the beam's path.

    Purple beams from my drones slash across the cavern as I switch direction, flying back towards a couple of Manhunters who were trying their luck at shooting my back. The one on my left folds around my club and then falls from the air, but the one on the right… Compacts slightly, and flies away at speed. A little unsteadily I note, but… Insulated nerves? Good reactions there.

    Mother Box, boom tube them to the Planetary Council chamber.

    Ping.

    Boom!

    The tube aperture appears just in front of him. He halts almost immediately, but a wide area energy blast to the back knocks him past the threshold. Fastest way to get someone in authority to be aware of the situation. Maybe they'll even take action before I have to forcibly disable every Manhunter here.

    What a polite euphemism, Lantern Grayven.

    Yes. It is.

    While I dealt with the runner, Komand'r has attracted a great deal of fire. She tries taking a shot at another patrol ship, but she neglects to shield her gun and the construct breaks. She grimaces, turns towards the densest concentration of Manhunters and makes a flicking gesture…

    Releasing her Construct Lanterns. Citadelian infantry for the most part, those who died in their armour manifesting still wearing it.

    "Kill for Komand'r!"

    Construct manifestations of the guns and melee weapons they died carrying have appeared along with the armour, only… They don't appear to be separate, but rather merged with the hands that carried them. The guns fire, forcing the Manhunters into evasive flight patterns to avoid getting shot. Others make for the fallen ship, presumably to recover any survivors. Can't be having that.

    As Komand'r fires again I boost towards the fallen ship. Martian ships don't use volatile fuels so there isn't any risk of a secondary explosion, but those on board probably got a decent burst of gamma radiation in addition to the heat and kinetic force. If they survived, they'll require medical attention for that to continue being the case.

    The rear first responder looks around a half-second before my left club construct hits him in the neck. No clever tricks with his nervous system, just an uncontrolled tumble out of the air. His closest comrade drops his gun and shifts his arms into two masses of razor-tipped tentacles, firing them at me. I ignore them in favour of closing the distance, so-. Ow. The tips pass through my environmental shield with a faint ripple, embedding themselves in my armour. Except for the one which nearly missed and cut a thin line across my chin. Telekinetically augmented razor claws. Good effort.

    I dismiss my right club and grab a bundle, the few razors facing my palm failing to pierce my gauntlet. I yank, and the Manhunter is pulled into range-.

    He pulls his other tentacle cluster back into his body, using the extra mass to create a heavily clawed arm which he thrusts at my face! I smash my remaining club into the side of it, knocking it off course. No apparent effect from the nerve stimulation. I don't really want to start using an agony matrix, not against people who are merely ignorant…

    Right hand grab new limb, pull and release as new blades form along its length, strike the helmet with the club. Down goes the Manhunter. Below us, one Manhunter tries to telekinetically lift a section of the ship-

    I shoot him in the back with an energy pulse.

    -while the other two prepare to receive my charge. One matches what his quick-thinking colleague tried and changes his limbs into whip-tendrils studded with razors, while the other focuses his eyes and-

    Uhh.

    -nearly stops me with a telekinetic hold but doesn't due to him getting an energy pulse to the face. I then use a construct shield to block one whip strike, pull myself around another before using the club's concussive force function to blast the clever dick in the helmet. Purely kinetic force, nothing clever going on, but it sends him hard into the side of the crashed patrol ship. I lunge, club meeting martian tor-.

    My hand stops in the air as the Manhunter I shot first points his right hand at my left. His hand is trembling and that's really all I need. Construct power armour appears around my arm, his fears about being unable to stop me making it impossible for him to stop me. His comrade sort of hisses in shock before going limp, then I shoot the outstretched arm with a low power energy pulse.

    "Who is in command here!?"

    He raises his other hand, only for me to shoot that as well.

    "Who is in command-!?"

    They communicate with telepathy. He probably can't hear anything outside of his helmet. Fine. I land and stalk closer, grabbing the helmet with both hands and pulling. The helmet comes apart, vital fluid from the armour leaking from the pieces and the neck of the armour. The martian inside stares at me in obvious terror.

    "Who is in command here!?"

    He stares-. Telepathy.

    "Make a mouth and speak!"

    His lower jaw shifts and he hurries to obey-. "Die in… Fire!"

    Right, a dedicated professional with a cause. Just being scary won't be enough to make him give me information. I slam the end of the club into his abdomen and then turn away-.

    Manhunters are rushing the theatre.
     
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  • Threadmarks
    • Mr Zoat said:
    ...step through the hush tube in to the centre of their formation...
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    ...step through the hush tube into the centre of their formation...
    (Reads better, but if you prefer otherwise, let it be.)

    ...but she neglectes to shield her gun and the construct brakes.
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    ...but she neglects to shield her gun and the construct breaks.

    They don't appear to be separate, but rather merged with the hands that carried them.
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    Oooh, funky. Wonder why that happened?

    Except of the one which nearly missed and cut a thin line across my chin.
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    Except for the one which nearly missed and cut a thin line across my chin.

    Right hand grab new limb, pull and release as new blades form along its length, strike the helmet with the club. Down goes the Manhunter. Below us, one Manhunter tries to telekinetically lift a section of the ship-
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    Boy, I love how you write action. That fast-paced, cut-and-chop description really channels the quick thinking involved in combat.

    ...but it sends him hard into the side of crashed patrol ship.
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    ...but it sends him hard into the side of the crashed patrol ship.

    They communicate with telepathy. He probably can't hear anything outside of his helmet. Fine. I land and stalk closer, grabbing the helmet with both hands and pulling. The helmet comes apart, vital fluid from the armour leaking from the pieces and the neck of the armour. The martian inside stares at me in obvious terror.
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    And so he should, given Grayven just ripped off part of a living organism, likely while the guy was mentally linked to it. OW.

    His lower jaw shifts and he hurries to obey-. "Die in… Fire!"
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    Zealots... Too dumb to disobey, too fanatical to give up...
    Manhunters are rushing the theatre.
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    Hmm... Reinforcements for the attackers, or for the defenders? Guess we'll see tomorrow.
     
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    Mr Zoat said:
    I switch from focusing on my orange ring to focusing on my yellow one as the wave of fire ripples through the centre of the Manhunter formation, expanding as more oxygen is sucked into the methane cloud. Given how tough martians are, neither the force nor the heat are all that dangerous. Rationally, I'm sure that they appreciate that. Given that they're martians and they were getting images of fire telepathically shoved into their brains just before it happened, that doesn't matter.
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    Ah, yeah, you were right. It was a attack, not a (purely) intimidation strategy. I think I misread the situation at first; I thought that they were producing methane around a isolated group of manhunters that were beaten, to keep them from rejoining the fight.
     
    Chojin Patriarch said:
    ...step through the hush tube into the centre of their formation...
    (Reads better, but if you prefer otherwise, let it be.)
    ...but she neglectes to shield her gun and the construct brakes.
    ...but she neglects to shield her gun and the construct breaks.
    Except of the one which nearly missed and cut a thin line across my chin.
    Except for the one which nearly missed and cut a thin line across my chin.
    ...but it sends him hard into the side of crashed patrol ship.
    ...but it sends him hard into the side of the crashed patrol ship.
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    Thank you, corrected.
    His lower jaw shifts and he hurries to obey-. "Die in… Fire!"
    Zealots... Too dumb to disobey, too fanatical to give up...
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    Or just a loyal soldier not passing information to the enemy.
     
    Mquz said:
    Is "Die in ... Fire" the equivalent of "Go to Hell"? Does that mean Fire is a Martian euphemism/ swear word? That would make a decent amount of sense.
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    I mean, they're normally pants-shittingly terrified of it, so it seems pretty straightforward as a insult. I'm not sure if it means quite the same thing as "go to hell", but if the Martians have their own mythological equivalent to hell it is probably filled with fire, so close enough I guess.
     
    Vaermina said:
    I really wish you haddn't nerfed the Martians so much so we would at least have an interesting fight to read about instead of just another in a long endless line of curbstomps due to everything but power rings being nerfed....
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    Zoat didn't nerf the Martians he made them stronger than they were on the show. He increased their telepathic range and made their weakness to fire psychological instead of physical. As for why the show nerfed them, I think Greg Weisman said something about making them more distinct from superman, which is also the reason why Martian Manhunter is also not the last Martian anymore.
     
    So if i understood correctly, Grayven attacked the rescue operators trying to free the attackers from ship wreckage?
     
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