With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

[Vaermina]

Not as such. Regardless of how it came about Darkseid and the Renegade regard one another as father and son.

SI isn't lying when he claims to be the Illustrious of the Orange Lanterns, despite having made up the position only a few months ago.
Renegade isn't lying when he claims a family connection to Darkseid, despite only having been acknowledged as his son a few months ago.

What is true, changes.
What is honest, is opinion.

Click to shrink...

Universal force of Honesty.

You don't get to play word games, you don't get to use technical truths, you have to be purely and unabashedly honest.

 

[desolatedsabers]

problem is, what started as a lie has become the truth because of a metaphysical awakening into a god state, he wasn't always grayven, but he sure as fuck is now, and feels that way even to Darkseid himself. so it's still honesty, he just didnt used to be grayven.

 

[Chaoswind]

Right, I'm not sure if Mr Zoat just missed my message, or if he couldn't be arsed to go and check, in which case I can't really blame him, but just to be sure, I'' ask again.
Mr Zoat, what's the word count right now?

Also, and this is to the rest of the community as well, and somewhat off-topic, but what would be the best way to enclose images in my messages? Would uploading them to Google Drive and using a spoiler bracket to house them work? Would I need some other hosting site, because no one I've seen uses google drive on this site. (They're a lot of images, so I can't hyperlink them). I'm asking because I'm going to try to write a fanfic of my own.

Speaking of, I've decided to set it in Gotham, so where would it be best for me to look for advice on the lore? Both the city and the DC universe in general.

Click to shrink...

You didn't tag him and one sentence post are easy to miss.

In regards to your question this fic had over two million words when it was still hosted in SV (and i mean not long after the SB exile), so considering how long ago that was and a rate of around 1,200 words per update on average (365 days a year) that it should have this fic being way over three million words by now, maybe four million words.

If you want the exact numbers you can count them yourself, if you want recommendations in regards what episodes are plot heavy and/or good, and what episodes can be safely skipped that is a whole different thing.


Edit: Using simple math, the average update length and that Zoat has... (i think) posted an update per day (delayed by bans and thread closures, but an update per day is mostly true), will get you almost four million words (give or take a hundred thousand) or over four million words... No wait a few are double updates due to the queen of Fables shenanigans episode... But i guess its a margin of error.

 

[Vaermina]

problem is, what started as a lie has become the truth because of a metaphysical awakening into a god state, he wasn't always grayven, but he sure as fuck is now, and feels that way even to Darkseid himself. so it's still honesty, he just didnt used to be grayven.

Click to shrink...

Again, universal force of Honesty.

Hiding part of the truth isn't being honest.

 

[DAT_NOOB]

problem is, what started as a lie has become the truth because of a metaphysical awakening into a god state, he wasn't always grayven, but he sure as fuck is now, and feels that way even to Darkseid himself. so it's still honesty, he just didnt used to be grayven.

Click to shrink...

It might be the Truth but it isn't Honest

Again, universal force of Honesty.

Hiding part of the truth isn't being honest.

Click to shrink...

He isn't hiding part of the Truth he is Grayven but he is was first paul therefore when he says "I am Grayven" it's true but dishonest when he says "I am Paul" it's false but Honest

 

[Frank Iannetta]

It would be interesting if the anti-ponies attack Grayven and begin to pull him under, making him relive the first time the ALE fragment overwhelmed him. He then honestly admits to being afraid of losing his daughter, his friends, everything he has worked towards, which gives him the final piece he needs for Harmony. Luna, upon seeing the Tantabus-ALE, finally becomes angry that she will lose all she has gained since her return, and gets her final piece. Then...they get to eat some nice apples.

 

[moralrelativity]

It would be interesting if the anti-ponies attack Grayven and begin to pull him under, making him relive the first time the ALE fragment overwhelmed him. He then honestly admits to being afraid of losing his daughter, his friends, everything he has worked towards, which gives him the final piece he needs for Harmony. Luna, upon seeing the Tantabus-ALE, finally becomes angry that she will lose all she has gained since her return, and gets her final piece. Then...they get to eat some nice apples.

Click to shrink...

I like this scenario, but I fear we'll get something much bleaker.

 

[Mr Zoat]

I feel insufficiently levelled
for this boss encounter

"Deluded villain, that will not work! You have not the spark! None of you represent the perversion of friendship itself!"

Except… That the belief that any interaction with others results in pain for all involved isn't a terrible description of-.

The beams of light I once hoped would have purged me leap from the five Bearers and meet in the air above us. The beams are weak and wavering, but I-.

I can feel it.

"They're going to break it out of the maze, and it's going to be their sixth."

"Can we stop it?"

I look at her, as the sphere of darkness the Bearers are generating grows larger.

"Luna, all joking aside… I am the Apokoliptian New God of Conquest. Nothing offends me more than inefficient government. If you are concerned about your ability to function in modern Equestria, then I'm happy to help you find a place… To learn whatever skills you need, to help you get whatever knowledge you need."

"Dost thou believe then that aiding Us will convince Us to permit you to mount Us?"

"Luna, I'm twice as tall as you. I wouldn't mount you so much as stand over you. But no; it's a special talent thing. I want to help you become a more effective ruler far more than I want to copulate with you."

"Then… We suppose that having seen the nature of this 'Anti-Life Equation', We can see why thou wert so insistent."

"Colleagues-with-an-option-on-friendship-later?"

She smiles very faintly. "As you-"

The ball of light flows into a near-equine shape. Four legs and a central torso, but the head is a blank cone with a yellow-orange… Hole. Around the hole are.. dots of a darker orange, and on its rump is a inky blur of a tail.

"-say." Her face falls. "It.. is…"

I nod. "That's just a fragment. Combined with your Tantabus."

Four of the Bearers slump to the ground, while Forsaken Vanguard slowly forces himself to trudge towards his abominable master.

"If they could bring it here with five elements, mayhap we could banish it with five?"

No. No, that won't work. I can't for the life of me work out what she's hiding her anger for, but…

I'm going to have to-.

"Life = Pain."

I'm.. going to have to tell her, to say it, to give myself away.

I'm… Afraid of doing it. I might have just.. built it up in my mind, and… Realistically there's no way that Darkseid doesn't know already…

I glance at Luna just as she's glancing at me, and I get a momentary flash of intuition that she's thinking along similar lines.

"I'm not-." / "We feel-."

A sound… A moan? A scream? Like.. the end of the universe, like desolation and reality itself falling away. The treasure chamber fails and fades into the black, small spheres of colour shielding the Bearers and floating them into position around the Fragment.

And then it look at us, sees everything that's ever hurt us, thinks of us as receptacles for our pain, then fires the Elements at us.

The black-tinged rainbow strikes us both, and I feel it as I start to decay, the black burrowing into my skin and psyche. There's a weak glow from the gems attached to my armour, but I only have four and that's not enough! I need-!

"I'm not actually Grayven! Something stopped me being able to use my actual name and I.. didn't worry about it until the Forever People mistook me for someone called Grayven and I played along to try and get access to their technology! I actually-."

I look down at my body and I'm not.. completely surprised to see that I've regained the form I had when I first arrived on Earth 16. Pyjamas and all.

"Yes, I looked like this, and everything's rather gotten away from me since. I think I'm coping and I'm sure that Darkseid would have turned his attention to Earth before too long anyway, but I've got no idea whether I'm actually ahead on the deal or not and I'm constantly scared that my worst case scenario is happening all around me and I'm just not seeing it!"

There's a flash of orange and the oncoming blackness is pushed back a little, but it's still only five to-.

"Celestia!"

I look around desperately.

"Where?!"

"Before Our banishment-" The strands of black wrap around Luna's neck. "-We desperately resented her greater popularity and her easy way with Our ponies. And when We came back, everything was so strange and she was so.. different, and she fit in and We.. sometimes felt that same anger We did before. And We felt terrible about it but then she returned to her duties and We only saw the only pony We know for a few hours each day and there is no place for Us here! We love her but she makes Us so angry and We feel so guilty because she has done so much to aid Us!"

There's a red flash as the two-lines-and-a-circle form of the Red Lantern sigil appears on her barding.

"It's been a thousand years-"

Whole sections of reality-. No, that's just the black threads covering my eyes. I can't.. see.

"-and she doesn't understand. If you can't talk to her about it then let me help!"

Oh.

A hurricane of light surrounds both of us. My gems of red, pink, purple, orange, blue and green spin around us, the black lines covering our bodies being evaporated and the baleful rainbow from the Anti-Life creature being held at bay. Luna's sigils lift off her peytral and drift forwards, lighting up in turn and then firing, their coloured beams merging just ahead of her and the resulting white beam lancing forward!

The Anti-Life creature doesn't move as the beam reaches it.

"Life = Pain."

It's corny, but… Ah, who am I kidding?

"Friendship = Magic." / "Friendship = Magic!"

The beam hits and the Anti-Life creature melts and burns while its five helpers become translucent, spreading out as the stolen thoughts and memories that make them up return to their owners. And with them gone, Luna and I are left alone in the void.

"Huh."

"It has been some time since We hath used such a device."

"I've never used such a device. Did it feel like.. bits of your brain were being hotwired?"

"We have no idea what that phrase means… But We suspect so."

"Right." I fly over to her, dropping down so that I can look her directly in the face. Then I wrap my arms around her neck and press the left side of my face against the right side of hers. "Don't you ever make something like that Tantabus again, do you hear me?"

"We will not. Might We prevail upon you to conduct yourself with greater patience and forbearance in future?"

"I'll-."

I was going to say 'I'll see what I can do', but…

"Yes. I will."

I pull back, and for the first time in over a year smile with my own face.

"I'll see you in the morning."

 

[Silverias]

"Friendship = Magic." / "Friendship = Magic!"

Click to shrink...

The whole episode for this one fucking line.

Don't you lie and try to deny it.

 

[RichardWhereat]

"Friendship = Magic." / "Friendship = Magic!"

Click to shrink...

It's so corny, but that was so godsdamned worth it.

 

[Darko]

Corny beyond belief, but who doesn't love corn.

Now after what i hope is one alternate chapter we finally get a villain song

 

[Mr Zoat]

Corny beyond belief, but who doesn't love corn.

Now after what i hope is one alternate chapter we finally get a villain song

Click to shrink...

It's more of an anti-hero song, really. Those are rarer.

 

[desolatedsabers]

so less of a "HELLFIRE" and more of an "I AM" song?

 

[The Froggy Ninja]

"Friendship = Magic." / "Friendship = Magic!"

Click to shrink...

I can't believe I didn't see this coming. I have brought great dishonor upon my family. Very good though. It's interesting wondering if Friendship=Magic is part of the MLP universe's own Life Equation or if there's only one LE and it's a fragment of the part that is abbreviated to Love=Truth the same way Life=Despair is a fragment of Life=Death. Or I could be talking out my ass.

 

[Mr Zoat]

so less of a "HELLFIRE" and more of an "I AM" song?

Click to shrink...

I imagine that the music sounds a little like 'Be Our Guest'.

Also, while I know that 'Hellfire' comes from Hunchback of Notre Dame, I don't know where 'I Am' comes from.

 

[Bigking321]

Personally, I enjoyed this a lot and am super excited about what happens next.

Many places this could go. All of them interesting.

...never thought when this story started that there would be actual serious crossover with mlp. How utterly bizarre.

Well, can't say I'm the least bit unhappy about it. A well written story is a well written story.

 

[Silverias]

I imagine that the music sounds a little like 'Be Our Guest'.

Also, while I know that 'Hellfire' comes from Hunchback of Notre Dame, I don't know where 'I Am' comes from.

Click to shrink...

"I am" isn't a song, it's a type. Like the "I want" song. (Like "Go the Distance" from Hercules, or "Part of your world" from little mermaid)

Think more...personal exposition rather than personal expression.

 

[nick012000]

I'm guessing that Darkseid is going to notice a fragment of the Anti-Life Equation being destroyed like this. Maybe he'll just send Steppenwulf or someone on his level rather than coming himself, though, depending on how genre savvy he is.

Then again, maybe he'll just show up on Grayven's couch again to congratulate him on finding a worthy spouse.

 

[Redhawk]

So Luna is the only one Grayven has told this secret to, right? Not even Jade knew if I recall correctly.

 

[The Froggy Ninja]

I imagine that the music sounds a little like 'Be Our Guest'.

Also, while I know that 'Hellfire' comes from Hunchback of Notre Dame, I don't know where 'I Am' comes from.

Click to shrink...

I Am Songs are a type of song rather than a specific one. They tend to be about introducing or affirming one's character and themes. Notable examples include Garnet's "Stronger Than You", Genie's "Friend Like Me" and, from MLP Pinkie's "Smile Song". Many Villain Songs take the form of I Am songs, though some take the form of I Want songs.

 

[Chojin Patriarch]

I feel insufficiently levelled
for this boss encounter

Click to shrink...

I know, right? It's like seeing the '????' option in an RPG's Arena area, and going "Oh, that sounds cool, let's try it- Oh god What the Fuck Is That! Oh god, it killed the tank in one hit!"

Spoiler: Commentary spoilered for length

"Deluded villain, that will not work! You have not the spark! None of you represent the perversion of friendship itself!"

Except… That the belief that any interaction with others results in pain for all involved isn't a terrible description of-.

Click to shrink...

They're going to invoke the Anti-Life fragment via simple dream logic. Delicious.

The beams of light I once hoped would have purged me leap from the five Bearers and meet in the air above us. The beams are weak and wavering, but I-.

I can feel it.

Click to shrink...

Brave Heart, Paul.

"They're going to break it out of the maze, and it's going to be their sixth."

"Can we stop it?"

Click to shrink...

8-ball says: "Outlook Hazy, Try Again Later."

I look at her, as the sphere of darkness the Bearers are generating grows larger.

"Luna, all joking aside… I am the Apokoliptian New God of Conquest. Nothing offends me more than inefficient government. If you are concerned about your ability to function in modern Equestria, then I'm happy to help you find a place… To learn whatever skills you need, to help you get whatever knowledge you need."

Click to shrink...

Is this really the best time for this? No, wait. Of course it is!

"Dost thou believe then that aiding Us will convince Us to permit you to mount Us?"

"Luna, I'm twice as tall as you. I wouldn't mount you so much as stand over you. But no; it's a special talent thing. I want to help you become a more effective ruler far more than I want to copulate with you."

Click to shrink...

Huh, that's a hell of an outlook.

"Then… We suppose that having seen the nature of this 'Anti-Life Equation', We can see why thou wert so insistent."

"Colleagues-with-an-option-on-friendship-later?"

She smiles very faintly. "As you-"

Click to shrink...

Aw, that's sweet.

The ball of light flows into a near-equine shape. Four legs and a central torso, but the head is a blank cone with a yellow-orange… Hole. Around the hole are.. dots of a darker orange, and on its rump is a inky blur of a tail.

Click to shrink...

Boss interrupt! Bad form, stepping on a friendship moment!

"-say." Her face falls. "It.. is…"

I nod. "That's just a fragment. Combined with your Tantabus."

Click to shrink...

Gah. Imagine if it became corporeal...

Four of the Bearers slump to the ground, while Forsaken Vanguard slowly forces himself to trudge towards his abominable master.

"If they could bring it here with five elements, mayhap we could banish it with five?"

Click to shrink...

That's a desperate reach, Luna, but I don't think Harmony would like that play.

No. No, that won't work. I can't for the life of me work out what she's hiding her anger for, but…

I'm going to have to-.

"Life = Pain."

Click to shrink...

And out comes the weaponised depression.

I'm.. going to have to tell her, to say it, to give myself away.

I'm… Afraid of doing it. I might have just.. built it up in my mind, and… Realistically there's no way that Darkseid doesn't know already…

Click to shrink...

I'm sure He's very amused at the whole circumstance. It's probably proving very informative.

I glance at Luna just as she's glancing at me, and I get a momentary flash of intuition that she's thinking along similar lines.

"I'm not-." / "We feel-."

Click to shrink...

Looks like they both had the same idea. Last minute reveal of a secret for a last minute reprieve/power-up...

A sound… A moan? A scream? Like.. the end of the universe, like desolation and reality itself falling away. The treasure chamber fails and fades into the black, small spheres of colour shielding the Bearers and floating them into position around the Fragment.

And then it look at us, sees everything that's ever hurt us, thinks of us as receptacles for our pain, then fires the Elements at us.

Click to shrink...

...But the bad guy seems to have other ideas.

The black-tinged rainbow strikes us both, and I feel it as I start to decay, the black burrowing into my skin and psyche. There's a weak glow from the gems attached to my armour, but I only have four and that's not enough! I need-!

"I'm not actually Grayven! Something stopped me being able to use my actual name and I.. didn't worry about it until the Forever People mistook me for someone called Grayven and I played along to try and get access to their technology! I actually-."

Click to shrink...

Whether it's really the first time he's said it outright or not, this is big. This is as big a status-quo changer as Twilight becoming an Alicorn. Hell, as much as Sunset becoming an alicorn!

I look down at my body and I'm not.. completely surprised to see that I've regained the form I had when I first arrived on Earth 16. Pyjamas and all.

"Yes, I looked like this, and everything's rather gotten away from me since. I think I'm coping and I'm sure that Darkseid would have turned his attention to Earth before too long anyway, but I've got no idea whether I'm actually ahead on the deal or not and I'm constantly scared that my worst case scenario is happening all around me and I'm just not seeing it!"

Click to shrink...

And all because of one bad day at work before he ended up here...

There's a flash of orange and the oncoming blackness is pushed back a little, but it's still only five to-.

"Celestia!"

Click to shrink...

Wait, what?

I look around desperately.

"Where?!"

Click to shrink...

Ha! A natural reaction!

"Before our banishment-" The strands of black wrap around Luna's neck. "-we desperately resented her greater popularity and her easy way with our ponies. And when we came back, everything was so strange and she was so.. different, and she fit in and We.. sometimes felt that same anger We did before. And We felt terrible about it but then she returned to her duties and We only saw the only pony We know for a few hours each day and there is no place for us here! We love her but she makes Us so angry and We feel so guilty because she has done so much to aid Us!"

Click to shrink...

Hate and Love. Such a fine division between them. Ironically, they're not opposites - that would be Indifference, which would be a part of the Anti-Life.

There's a red flash as the two-lines-and-a-circle form of the Red Lantern sigil appears on her barding.

"It's been a thousand years-"

Click to shrink...

She's ready...

Whole sections of reality-. No, that's just the black threads covering my eyes. I can't.. see.

"-and she doesn't understand. If you can't talk to her about it then let me help!"

Click to shrink...

And so is he...

Oh.

A hurricane of light surrounds both of us. My gems of red, pink, purple, yellow, blue and green spin around us, the black lines covering our bodies being evaporated and the baleful rainbow from the Anti-Life creature being held at bay. Luna's sigils lift off her peytral and drift forwards, lighting up in turn and then firing, their coloured beams merging just ahead of her and the resulting white beam lancing forward!

Click to shrink...

Oh, my. Weaponised Life.

The Anti-Life creature doesn't move as the beam reaches it.

"Life = Pain."

Click to shrink...

And it can't comprehend the threat it's facing. How appropriate.

It's corny, but… Ah, who am I kidding?

"Friendship = Magic." / "Friendship = Magic!"

Click to shrink...

Be honest, Mr Zoat, how far in advance did you have this moment planned out? Because it is awesome. Corny as hell, but that's entirely in the tone of the series.

The beam hits and the Anti-Life creature melts and burns while its five helpers become translucent, spreading out as the stolen thoughts and memories that make them up return to their owners. And with them gone, Luna and I are left alone in the void.

"Huh."

"It has been some time since I used such a device."

Click to shrink...

"And why do I suddenly feel the need to inhale the fumes of burning dried leaves from a rolled paper tube?"

"I've never used such a device. Did it feel like.. bits of your brain were being hotwired?"

"We have no idea what that phrase means… But We suspect so."

Click to shrink...

I bet they feel wired as hell right now. All tingly.

"Right." I fly over to her, dropping down so that I can look her directly in the face. Then I wrap my arms around her neck and press the left side of my face against the right side of hers. "Don't you ever make something like that Tantabus again, do you hear me?"

"We will not. Might we prevail upon you to conduct yourself with greater patience and forbearance in future?"

Click to shrink...

I don't know, that's asking a lot...

"I'll-."

I was going to say 'I'll see what I can do', but…

"Yes. I will."

Click to shrink...

And development! He's too happy for snark right now.

I pull back, and for the first time in over a year smile with my own face.

"I'll see you in the morning."

Click to shrink...

Hmm... Wonder if he'll begin to shift his appearance at all after this...

And the big moment is done. A quick palate cleanser of an Alt-Paul, then on to the denouement. Bring on the musical scene!

 

[Alasnuyo]

Something tells me that this will make Darkseid sit up and notice Wilson, and that's not a good thing for that world at all.

 

[Handlewithcare]

So is the Anti-life gone or merely contained again?

Also, the Bearers and Celestia didn't even matter in the end. That is sort of hilarious

LUNA AND GRAYVEN ARE STRONG PONIES WHO NO NEED SOME GOODY TWO-HOOVES!

 

[desolatedsabers]

I AM A STRONG INDEPENDENT REFORMED VILLAIN THAT DON'T NEED NO HENCHMEN!

 

[ForeverShogo]

And now the courtship can truly begin. Interdimensional long-distance relationship? No problem. Celestia pulled off the very same thing with the Sombra of a Mirror Universe.

Luna can surely accomplish the same.

 

[Vaermina]

"I'm not actually Grayven! Something stopped me being able to use my actual name and I.. didn't worry about it until the Forever People mistook me for someone called Grayven and I played along to try and get access to their technology! I actually-."

Click to shrink...

And he's finally being Honest.

 

[RichardWhereat]

And he's finally being Honest.

Click to shrink...

Assuming that Darkseid can observe Grayven through the anti-life fragment, what do you think he'd have done back in DC-16 if he found out that 'Grayven' was just a human pretending to be his son?

Even if he couldn't view that, that's the kind of secret one person keeps, because two people knowing means Darkseid'd eventually find out.

 

[desolatedsabers]

what makes you think darkseid didn't already know? yes our grayven's metaphysique was the same, but it's still something that wasn't there until just before.

 

[Cherico]

what makes you think darkseid didn't already know? yes our grayven's metaphysique was the same, but it's still something that wasn't there until just before.

Click to shrink...

Theres always the possibility that OL mantled Graven so hard he became him.

 

[rkyeun]

Something tells me that this will make Darkseid sit up and notice Wilson, and that's not a good thing for that world at all.

Click to shrink...

I think they can take him.
Rainbow Dash can outfly the Omega Beams so they turn back and hit Darkseid.
Pinkie Pie can... just... break reality through sheer stupidity, and shoot him with the Party Cannon.
Applejack can go one on one with Darkseid physically and buck him up, while tanking anything he dishes out.
Fluttershy can command the armies of magical animals with esoteric powers such as cockatrices to petrify Darkseid. Or maybe even lock him down with The Stare.
Rarity can make shields to protect others from Darkseid's attacks, while she breaks out the martial arts moves.
And Twilight Sparkle is an alicorn. They don't need more help.
And if that doesn't work, Celestia can hit him with the sun.