With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

[Mr Zoat]

Missing word 'now', or a missing comma?

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Thank you, corrected.

 

[Chaoswind]

Twilights right ear twitches in a way which probably conveys all sorts of meaning to other ponies. "So… You've realised that your obsessive behaviour was self-destructive and you've come to apologise to everyone you offended and repair your old friendships?"

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Everypony instead of everyone?

Pony lingo is hard mkay

 

[Simonbob]

Now that I'm thinking about it.....


Luna and Celestia asended, in this fic, by having close relationships with skilled mentors from all 3 tribes, and immense magic power.

As far as Celestia knows, the only way that's safe to Alicornise requires close friends from all 3 tribes. I think she was trying to show Sunset the path, but Sunset's obsessive, and she got stuck on the wrong part.

Add in that Celestia's over 1000, and hasn't had an equal, or even real friends, in Sunbutt only knows when, so she's not really good at understanding ponies is a number of ways.......

 

[nick012000]

"This video is no longer available because the youtube account associated with it has closed."

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Probably an accurate reflection of Twilight Sparkle's brain at that moment.

 

[RichardWhereat]

Don't forget she is an immortal who literally raises and lowers the sun.

Quite a lot of us humans would pray to someone like that.

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True, Lathander is the greatest god who is not Apollon.

Although for all that the Sun God is amazing, I'd rather follow a craftsman who is better than the gods. One who could craft something better than the Sun and Moon.

 

[theaceoffire]

"Celestia was wrong?!"

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"Sorry about being so hung up on this, but I have had a NUMBER of emotional breakdowns over the years and the immortal sun princess who mostly raised me, employed me, helped me get most of my friends, gave me spike as an egg, etc and so forth... she is a bit of an anchor for me."

"... Yeah, I can see that."

 

[Mr Zoat]

Everypony instead of everyone?

Pony lingo is hard mkay

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Thank you, corrected.

True, Lathander is the greatest god who is not Apollon.

Although for all that the Sun God is amazing, I'd rather follow a craftsman who is better than the gods. One who could craft something better than the Sun and Moon.

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Seems legit.

 

[Railhazar]

And here comes the massive weakness in ponykind collective psyche.

Celestia is considered by her little ponies both as an all knowing, all powerfull GOD-queen and their MOTHER.

Therefore, she CAN NOT be wrong !

She is the cornerstone of their whole universe. Without Celestia the sun WILL litteraly not rise.

Doubting Celestia is as alien as thinking that the sun may one day not rise.

However it was proven and established that Celestia, i mean the actual pony, in spite of all her power, wisdom and
good intention has made mistakes. She is responsible for many faillure, she can be defeated and she is far from being perfect.

In my opinion, it is unfair for every parties involves in this matter.

For Celestia because she has to shoulder those expectations and the responsabilities dumped on her by her subjects.

For all the little ponies because they have allowed themself to become overreliant on one allmighty parental figure.

Perhaps, it is the reason why she lets the Mane 6 handle all those crisis. She is trying to gently teach her people that
they could do thing by themself. That they don't truly need her anymore. To grown up.

 

[Mr Zoat]

And here comes the massive weakness in ponykind collective psyche.

Celestia is considered by her little ponies both as an all knowing, all powerfull GOD-queen and their MOTHER.

Therefore, she CAN NOT be wrong !

She is the cornerstone of their whole universe. Without Celestia the sun WILL litteraly not rise.

Doubting Celestia is as alien as thinking that the sun may one day not rise.

However it was proven and established that Celestia, i mean the actual pony, in spite of all her power, wisdom and
good intention has made mistakes. She is responsible for many faillure, she can be defeated and she is far from being perfect.

In my opinion, it is unfair for every parties involves in this matter.

For Celestia because she has to shoulder those expectations and the responsabilities dumped on her by her subjects.

For all the little ponies because they have allowed themself to become overreliant on one allmighty parental figure.

Perhaps, it is the reason why she lets the Mane 6 handle all those crisis. She is trying to gently teach her people that
they could do thing by themself. That they don't truly need her anymore. To grown up.

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Eh. She's had a thousand years to fix it. She could have trained up a squad of unicorns to handle the sun, and created a parliament to run the country. If she decides not to, that's on her.

 

[Railhazar]

Eh. She's had a thousand years to fix it. She could have trained up a squad of unicorns to handle the squad, and created a parliament to run the country. If she decides not to, that's on her.

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True.

It's simply prove even further that she is as faillable as any other.

 

[ForeverShogo]

Or she and her sister just don't give a fuck and decide to retire, forcing someone who isn't in any way prepared for the burdens of leadership to take up that mantle.

Which I think Zoat is disregarding, even if a retiring Luna is just the opportunity Grayven needs to convince her to move in with him.

 

[Norgarth]

Link's broken, FYI

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you know, tha-

Probably an accurate reflection of Twilight Sparkle's brain at that moment.

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You beat me to it.

 

[Mr Zoat]

Or she and her sister just don't give a fuck and decide to retire, forcing someone who isn't in any way prepared for the burdens of leadership to take up that mantle.

Which I think Zoat is disregarding, even if a retiring Luna is just the opportunity Grayven needs to convince her to move in with him.

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When that happens, Celestia and Luna are in very different places.

Celestia's had a thousand years of ruling over Equestria and is so done with the place that she can barely wait until Twilight ascends to get out of the door.

Luna has returned and made no impact on Equestrian society at all. She has no real role and everypony thinks she eats children. She wants to leave because at least that way she'd be starting from nothing, which would be an improvement.

With Grayven around she may well find a role and not want to retire.

 

[Idkusername]

Albus only started to suspect that Harry was a horcrux late in the game. He didn't even realise Voldie used Horcruxes until the second book. So, no.

Also, Albus explicitly did not believe in prophecy.

Do me the courtesy of actually reading the books and understanding the timeline.

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Are you kidding me with this. Everything Albus did was because of the prophecy. Harry had to be hidden? Because the prophecy showed signs of being true once Voldy attacked the Potters at the end of whichever month it was, and he needed the blood protection charm to subsist. Why did he hire Trlawney? To keep her safe because her prophecy turned out to be true. He also always suspected hocruxes from the start because if the prophecy was true, that meant Voldemort had some form of immortality to allow him to survive beyond death. Even then, prophecy was a mostly accepted discipline, besides McGonagal, which seemed more a humorous addition than a serious attempt at world-building.

And again, you keep trying to invalidate the example instead of actually addressing my points, but you don't even do that properly.

Whoosh
I didn't mention sports, I specifically said 'get jacked' in reference to an increase in size and muscle mass.
You can take drugs that will make you stronger and bigger in an easy way which is why using them to increase size and strength is cheating. (for the purposes of this argument I did not refer to sports but for the cause of gaining muscle mass for its own sake)
Now in relation to what sunset is doing she is using drugs magic to enhance her strength magical potential and change her form.
Still cheating

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Except, whenever someone talks about doping, the context is always sports. It's a very reasonable assumption. And 'getting jacked' is the literal definition of steroids. Even if it is done in the context of showing off, there is still a significant aspect of effort and competitiveness inherent in the act.

If it is done 'for its own sake' as you say, or getting a more attractive body, I would say that it would be perfectly viable, except for the shiton of health hazards, including but not limited to, drug dependence, impotence, poor eyesight, anxiety, heart problems, metabolism problems, hair loss, etc.

And again, you're only trying to (faultily) combat the example and not the point I was trying to make. Also, as Lord Ernest says,

If the only acceptable way to become an Alicorn was through whatever friendship enlightenment bullshit, then it sounds to me as if Cadance (think that's her name?) cheated as well as her baby Alicorn or they shouldn't be Alicorns at all, unless it gets proven that they went through the same friendship enlightenment bullshit. If not, then Alicornism is just an ascension/transformation, and all the study and hard work that Sunset invested in finding a way to get that ascension is as valid as, I don't know, being born an Alicorn or whatever.

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[DAT_NOOB]

Except, whenever someone talks about doping, the context is always sports. It's a very reasonable assumption. And 'getting jacked' is the literal definition of steroids. Even if it is done in the context of showing off, there is still a significant aspect of effort and competitiveness inherent in the act.

If it is done 'for its own sake' as you say, or getting a more attractive body, I would say that it would be perfectly viable, except for the shiton of health hazards, including but not limited to, drug dependence, impotence, poor eyesight, anxiety, heart problems, metabolism problems, hair loss, etc.

And again, you're only trying to (faultily) combat the example and not the point I was trying to make. Also, as Lord Ernest says,

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What example? I was using an example to attempt to demonstrate why there are incorrect ways of obtaining certain things and that was the most relevant human equivalent I could think of (due to the lack of any magical transformations that I'm aware of IRL)

I was attempting to use an example to combat the point that in terms of achieving a new form/powerup any means is fair game.

As for the point surrounding the relation to sports, I had considered that and decided not to clarify further. I was assuming that not talking about sports would be enough to give the idea that I wasn't talking about sports.

I should have clarified that further my bad.

She is using drugs magic to enhance her strength magical potential and change her form.
Still cheating

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Was the crux of my objection.

Although I'm at the point where waltersobchakeit Is applicable.
(I am aware of its non-existence as a word)

In regards to lord Ernest
Natural variation among populations occurs, some people are born bigger and stronger than others, some people are naturally small.
Using money or studying how to make steroids doesn't make it any less cheaty.

 

[RichardWhereat]

Are you kidding me with this. Everything Albus did was because of the prophecy. Harry had to be hidden? Because the prophecy showed signs of being true once Voldy attacked the Potters at the end of whichever month it was, and he needed the blood protection charm to subsist. Why did he hire Trlawney? To keep her safe because her prophecy turned out to be true. He also always suspected hocruxes from the start because if the prophecy was true, that meant Voldemort had some form of immortality to allow him to survive beyond death. Even then, prophecy was a mostly accepted discipline, besides McGonagal, which seemed more a humorous addition than a serious attempt at world-building.

And again, you keep trying to invalidate the example instead of actually addressing my points, but you don't even do that properly.

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You really don't know shit about Harry Potter, do you.. you seem to just know the fanon.

The only reason thr prophecy mattered at all was that Voldemort believed in it, and was acting using it as a guide. Therefore Voldemort had to be responded to, whether or not Albus believed in the prophecy. He was quite explicit in explaining this to Harry.

I refuse to use fanon to explain canon, especially where fanon is directly opposed to canon. Your arguments are worthless as they show a naked lack of Potterknowledge. Therefore I won't bother continuing this with you. Go reread the books. Nonetheless, this story isnt HP until at least the next in-story April 1st.

Thank you, corrected.

Seems legit.

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Zarus has an interesting story, but he doesn't appear to be Fëanáro Sintamotar.

 

[LurkingInTheDeceit]

I'm not quite sure why people are talking about cheating in what doesn't seem to be a competition? Whether you become an Alicorn through studying/friendship/magic, unless you define the competition as life itself and becoming one gives you an unfair advantage, it's a weird argument to be having that one method that doesn't harm others is inherently fairer than another.

 

[DAT_NOOB]

I'm not quite sure why people are talking about cheating in what doesn't seem to be a competition? Whether you become an Alicorn through studying/friendship/magic, unless you define the competition as life itself and becoming one gives you an unfair advantage, it's a weird argument to be having that one method that doesn't harm others is inherently fairer than another.

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Solitaire isn't a competition, you can still cheat at it.

 

[LurkingInTheDeceit]

Solitaire isn't a competition, you can still cheat at it.

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It's not a competition maybe, but it is a game with rules, so breaking those rules equal cheating. Again, unless you consider life itself to be a game/competition, I'm failing to see how what Sunset's doing is cheating.

 

[Lord Ernest]

I'm not sure how natural variations in populations are the same as becoming an Alicorn, but if we had the science to reliably edit genes why would it be cheating if I add a couple of inches to my height or change the color of my eyes/hair? Especially if I studied and developed the method to do it myself?

Yeah, I'm sorry, but if I study Superman enough and find out a method to replicate his powers on myself, you can call what I did cheating all you want, I still accomplished it and the powers are mine; to me that's as valid a method to become a Super individual as being born with it. At that point, if the universe didn't want me becoming a Kryptonian, it shouldn't have allowed it.

 

[Valint]

I'm not quite sure why people are talking about cheating in what doesn't seem to be a competition? Whether you become an Alicorn through studying/friendship/magic, unless you define the competition as life itself and becoming one gives you an unfair advantage, it's a weird argument to be having that one method that doesn't harm others is inherently fairer than another.

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"Fair" isn't necessarily the issue; rather, it's that if enlightenment is a key part of becoming an alicorn, sidestepping that might end up with someone much weaker than if they had done things the orthodox way, or failing entirely because they left out an important step.

 

[Ganurath]

I hear this talk about how using a more reliable, less complicated method of becoming an alicorn is cheating and it's giving me flashbacks to the Calvin & Hobbes strips where his dad would talk about how doing certain things certain ways built character.

 

[RichardWhereat]

I hear this talk about how using a more reliable, less complicated method of becoming an alicorn is cheating and it's giving me flashbacks to the Calvin & Hobbes strips where his dad would talk about how doing certain things certain ways built character.

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Everything builds character. Sometimes, it's just a bad character.

 

[Hidden Variable]

Take the harry potter argument to PMs. You guys have spent long enough off topic.

 

[Stsword]

I'm not sure how natural variations in populations are the same as becoming an Alicorn, but if we had the science to reliably edit genes why would it be cheating if I add a couple of inches to my height or change the color of my eyes/hair? Especially if I studied and developed the method to do it myself?

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Then I for one would not give a shit.

This is more like a Witchblade story I read.

Aliens visited ancient Earth, and gave a princess one of their omnitools that respond to thought as a gift.

The omnitool, a ubiquitous gadget that to the aliens might as well have been a cell phone.

The omnitool responded to the princess's thoughts, including thoughts born from anger and fear, which meant she couldn't actually control it.

She frightened the other people, who then attacked her, which frightened her more, it ended with her civilization falling.

The aliens you see, don't have thoughts or emotions they can't control, the idea of an omnitool not only doing what you specifically want it to do was a completely alien concept to them.

Unicorn/Alicorn magic is like that alien omnitool, it responds to emotions, not just conscious decisions.

Sunset Shimmer didn't choose to become a demon in Equestria Girls.

Princess Luna didn't choose to become Nightmare Moon as in she made a pros and cons list and did the math and saw that becoming a living nightmare who frightens everyone and brings about eternal darkness had more advantages than not, ditto Stygian and the Pony of Darkness.

Sombra, well, he might have been enough of a dick that going all Darth Vader with Dark Magic was something he decided to do after making a pros and cons list.

This isn't about fairness, this is about qualifications.

This is the equivalent of a teen genius not being able to pass a driving test, so she builds her own vehicle to technically not need a driving license, as if that will be a comfort to the victims of her vehicular manslaughter.

Sunset figured out a clever way to do something very stupid.

This isn't Hermione figuring out how to make muggles into wizards, this is like someone who wants to be a Jedi inventing a process to gain Force powers, as if someone with no training whatsoever to avoid gaining glowing eyes of doom and a new habit of torching nuns and orphans with force lightning, gaining Force powers without proper training isn't a bad idea. Unless the goal is orphan and nun BBQ.

If Gravy makes a New God out of a nun tending to the sick in a third world country, she isn't in danger of becoming the New God of Eating People While They are Still Alive to Feel It after one bad day.

An Alicorn is however one bad day away from trying to bring Eternal Night So They Can Laugh Maniacally As All Fall To Despair And Die.

The enlightenment component of alicornization is a good thing because it makes it less likely that an alicorn is susceptible to one bad day.

 

[Doccer]

I'm not perma-banned on SV either, but I'd never go back there. I'd have to go back to operating under their nonsense rules again. And you can bet mods would be hovering over the thread with a banhammer.

The only way I'd go back to SB is if I got a retraction of the original ban.

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This was all before I ever found your story. This is the first I am hearing why you haven't updated ur story there. If you don't mind can you tell me what happened? Broadstrokes? If not oh well I am just curious.

 

[Stsword]

This was all before I ever found your story. This is the first I am hearing why you haven't updated ur story there. If you don't mind can you tell me what happened? Broadstrokes? If not oh well I am just curious.

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I'll answer that in PM to hopefully avoid cluttering up this thread.

 

[RichardWhereat]

Take the harry potter argument to PMs. You guys have spent long enough off topic.

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Did you not read how that conversation is already ended without your post? Hours before you even posted?

 

[TheMidnightRook]

It's not a competition maybe, but it is a game with rules, so breaking those rules equal cheating. Again, unless you consider life itself to be a game/competition, I'm failing to see how what Sunset's doing is cheating.

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Well, if breaking rules count as cheating, than Sunset is kinda breaking a few. For one, she has very little actual motivation for trying to become an alicorn, she's demonstrated no real interest in wanting to actually do anything with the status and power once she gets it, she just wants to satisfy her own ego. Seeking power simply for the sake of having it... well, I can't think of a story where that's ended well. But it tends to result in the person, having achieved their goal of immense power proceeding to use it to acquire even more power. And if you want to know where that kind of path leads, this fic already has a pretty good example: his name is Larfleeze.

 

[rman916]

This was all before I ever found your story. This is the first I am hearing why you haven't updated ur story there. If you don't mind can you tell me what happened? Broadstrokes? If not oh well I am just curious.

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So... Sufficient Velocity?

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Just to inform you, but this is answered on the first page.


I've also come to the realization that the reason the FAQ isn't referred, at least some of the time, is for people jumping back to the story after years or for the first time, there isn't one in the story only thread.

Mr Zoat that might help with the issue? I know that's a pet peeve of yours.