With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

[Vaermina]

I've got something for you. Hear me out, it will absolutely change your life. And that something is... the scientific method. Seriously, what part of working together to research it in a safer manner do you not understand?

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Maybe you should read the story... Because that's not what they agreed to...

Further it assumes it's actually possible to get the risk to 0, which is an assumption without any evidence backing it up.

 

[Cuchulin]

Pity Paragon didn't exchange databases with ReneGraven, that would have really helped the SI avoid some big problems coming down the road and help him in various other ways.

 

[Idkusername]

Maybe you should read the story... Because that's not what they agreed to...

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Maybe you should read the story because Paul simply agreed to help. Why would you think he wouldn't take safety into account?

Further it assumes it's actually possible to get the risk to 0, which is an assumption without any evidence backing it up.

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No, you are assuming that it's impossible. You made the claim, the burden of proof is on you.

EDIT: If this was real life, then yes, I'd have to prove to you that it was possible. But it's not. It's a comic book story and you can assume that it will be possible to do it safely, no matter how difficult, unless specified otherwise when it comes to timeywimey stuff. In fact, almost any pseudo will be like that.

 

[Darko]

How would it help if he did?

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If one of the Paul's tells him some of the things that happen in Canon, like Rimbor and the Light and Reach thing, Tiamat etc., it can help him better prepare.

 

[Ardy]

Tons of reasons to tell Paul about YJ.

If you told Earth-12 Paul about the Thanagarian Invasion he wouldn't have wasted all his charge. If you told a hypothetical Earth -50 Paul about the JL going police state, he could flee the planet before Luthor became barbecue or possibly talk them down as a fellow superhero.

Future knowledge, even knowledge rendered technically non-canon by Paul-based changes, is never useless.

 

[Cuchulin]

If you told Earth-12 Paul about the Thanagarian Invasion he wouldn't have wasted all his charge. If you told a hypothetical Earth -50 Paul about the JL going police state, he could flee the planet before Luthor became barbecue or possibly talk them down as a fellow superhero.

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Actually he couldn't, his ring is out of power and he wouldn't have any where to go anyway. Giving him another full charge and a hint on where to find a unused lantern would be much better help.
Which reminds me, in which chapters did Paragon near effortlessly beat the DCAU League? I'd love to reread that.

 

[Darko]

Actually he couldn't, his ring is out of power and he wouldn't have any where to go anyway. Giving him another full charge and a hint on where to find a unused lantern would be much better help.
Which reminds me, in which chapters did Paragon near effortlessly beat the DCAU League? I'd love to reread that.

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He beat them during some of the last chapters of Dopplegangered.

Don't remember the exact chapters though, sorry.

 

[Vaermina]

Actually he couldn't, his ring is out of power and he wouldn't have any where to go anyway. Giving him another full charge and a hint on where to find a unused lantern would be much better help.

Which reminds me, in which chapters did Paragon near effortlessly beat the DCAU League? I'd love to reread that.

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Keep in mind Zoat nerfed them pretty heavily from their on screen capabilities.

 

[Darko]

Keep in mind Zoat nerfed them pretty heavily from their on screen capabilities.

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He didn't so much as nerf them as he had his character, who is a extremely powerful and skilled ring wielder, surprise attack them using methods he developed to fight the League in case they are controlled or go rogue.

He has a great deal of knowledge on how their abilities work while they don't know anything about him.

If he fought them while they were prepared things could have gone in their favor.

 

[Cuchulin]

He didn't so much as nerf them as he had his character, who is a extremely powerful and skilled ring wielder, surprise attack them using methods he developed to fight the League in case they are controlled or go rogue.
He has a great deal of knowledge on how their abilities work while they don't know anything about him.
If he fought them while they were prepared things could have gone in their favor.

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This, they were basically ambushed by a opponent who both knew their abilities and weakness as well as being near perfectly positioned to take advantage of both.

 

[Gantradies]

this is one of the times Vae has a point-and a pretty good one, if you ask me!

regardless of the precautions taken, dimensional engineering on this kinda scale will allways have risk involved, especially if you're charging straight on into the project using stolen equipment that you dont understand- id be...more then a little twitchy about doing a small scale test with the equipment on hand on a pocket dimension/empty, SMALL universe,after several years of going through the theory/circuitry and programming-
charging straight on in like this, working on one that isnt just inhabited, but in the process of an energy state/vaccum (if i understand correctly) collapse?? its recklessness on the level of the infamous "tickling the dragons tail" criticality experiments that got Slotin killed from massive radiation exposure after he dropped the screwdriver he was using to stop that chunk of plutonium going critical....
for context, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demon_core

i mean-it.. it isnt just a risk, its an IDIOTIC risk-isnt the Mandate Timeline-chunk in mostly-stable stasis? wheres the rush?

....can anyone else hear "Common Sense"(TM) Paul screaming off in the distance?

 

[Vaermina]

He didn't so much as nerf them as he had his character, who is a extremely powerful and skilled ring wielder, surprise attack them using methods he developed to fight the League in case they are controlled or go rogue.

He has a great deal of knowledge on how their abilities work while they don't know anything about him.

If he fought them while they were prepared things could have gone in their favor.

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He nerfed them in a number, many of which I can list off the top of my head.

Both Superman and Flash were capable of near light speed movement in the DCAU with Flash even having the capabilities to go faster yet he cut their speed to almost nothing in comparison.

He nerfed Flash again, because Freeze Ray's don't effect the DCAU Flash in that manner.

He nerfed Superman again by making him weak to another universe's kryptonite.

He nerfed Nth Metal, because DCAU Nth metal disrupts constructs on contact, yet he was handling Hawkgirl's mace with his tendrils.

 

[Gantradies]

He nerfed them in a number, many of which I can list off the top of my head.

Both Superman and Flash were capable of near light speed movement in the DCAU with Flash even having the capabilities to go faster yet he cut their speed to almost nothing in comparison.

He nerfed Flash again, because Freeze Ray's don't effect the DCAU Flash in that manner.

He nerfed Superman again by making him weak to another universe's kryptonite.

He nerfed Nth Metal, because DCAU Nth metal disrupts constructs on contact, yet he was handling Hawkgirl's mace with his tendrils.

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to be fair, the movement speed nerf IS understandable from a writing perspective, if you're focusing on keeping things consistent/manageable, that kind of movement speed has a lot of potential for causing writing problems.... trivialising threats

could you throw us a few links/examples for the stuff about Nth metal, out of curiosity?

 

[Ardy]

He nerfed them in a number, many of which I can list off the top of my head.

Both Superman and Flash were capable of near light speed movement in the DCAU with Flash even having the capabilities to go faster yet he cut their speed to almost nothing in comparison.

He nerfed Flash again, because Freeze Ray's don't effect the DCAU Flash in that manner.

He nerfed Superman again by making him weak to another universe's kryptonite.

He nerfed Nth Metal, because DCAU Nth metal disrupts constructs on contact, yet he was handling Hawkgirl's mace with his tendrils.

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I think, when you refer to their speed, you've had a stroke, because in virtually every episode they have to fight and get hit, which would not be the case if they could move at near light speed.

Unless by near light speed you mean "pretty fast, I guess" which would significantly more accurate

 

[Senevri]

this is one of the times Vae has a point-and a pretty good one, if you ask me!

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Speaking of nuclear fission, remember when the people were afraid it would set the earth's atmosphere on fire? Good times...

Now, there was a mathematical proof that it wouldn't, but the proof could always be wrong.


You're operating on the logic of BvS: If there's even an infinitesimal chance that Superman might go evil, you gotta kill him now, regardless of his current character or intentions.

Now, knowing that this is a story, we know something is going to go wrong, but also that it's not going to do so in a multiverse-annihilating way.

 

[Darko]

He nerfed them in a number, many of which I can list off the top of my head.

Both Superman and Flash were capable of near light speed movement in the DCAU with Flash even having the capabilities to go faster yet he cut their speed to almost nothing in comparison.

He nerfed Flash again, because Freeze Ray's don't effect the DCAU Flash in that manner.

He nerfed Superman again by making him weak to another universe's kryptonite.

He nerfed Nth Metal, because DCAU Nth metal disrupts constructs on contact, yet he was handling Hawkgirl's mace with his tendrils.

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They're fast, but not that fast most of the time.
Yes they can go at those speeds but they need time to build up and the paragon took them down before they could.

Cold guns from earth 16 may work on the Flash.

Kryptonite from alternate universes may not always work, but some variations may be able to work.

The Nth metal from earth 12 may not work on power ring constructs, or the SI figured out a way to make his constructs resistant to the stuff if he was planning on fighting the Hawks.

Speaking of nuclear fission, remember when the people were afraid it would set the earth's atmosphere on fire? Good times...

Now, there was a mathematical proof that it wouldn't, but the proof could always be wrong.


You're operating on the logic of BvS: If there's even an infinitesimal chance that Superman might go evil, you gotta kill him now, regardless of his current character or intentions.

Now, knowing that this is a story, we know something is going to go wrong, but also that it's not going to do so in a multiverse-annihilating way.

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It may not go wrong.

We all thought that what Sunset was doing would go wrong, but she succeeded in becoming an Alicorn.

 

[Vaermina]

to be fair, the movement speed nerf IS understandable from a writing perspective, if you're focusing on keeping things consistent/manageable, that kind of movement speed has a lot of potential for causing writing problems.... trivialising threats

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If someone has to nerf a side to make their SI win, they shouldn't have them fight in the first place because it's both disrespectful to the source material and bad writing in general.

Could you throw us a few links/examples for the stuff about Nth metal, out of curiosity?

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I believe it was Starcrossed, where a thanagarian literally cut apart John's ring.

 

[Darko]

If someone has to nerf a side to make their SI win, they shouldn't have them fight in the first place because it's both disrespectful to the source material and bad writing in general.


I believe it was Starcrossed, where a thanagarian literally cut apart John's ring.

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Again Nth metal from earth 12 may not work on rings from earth 16, or its possible that the Nth metal weapons were designed to damage green rings and that's why they couldn't do that to Pauls ring.

 

[Ardy]

If someone has to nerf a side to make their SI win, they shouldn't have them fight in the first place because it's both disrespectful to the source material and bad writing in general.


I believe it was Starcrossed, where a thanagarian literally cut apart John's ring.

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Stop Vaerminaposting if you're just going to ignore all evidence to the contra- oh right.

 

[Cuchulin]

He nerfed them in a number, many of which I can list off the top of my head.
Both Superman and Flash were capable of near light speed movement in the DCAU with Flash even having the capabilities to go faster yet he cut their speed to almost nothing in comparison.
He nerfed Flash again, because Freeze Ray's don't effect the DCAU Flash in that manner.
He nerfed Superman again by making him weak to another universe's kryptonite.
He nerfed Nth Metal, because DCAU Nth metal disrupts constructs on contact, yet he was handling Hawkgirl's mace with his tendrils.

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They need to activate and build up to that speed, neither can or does go from 0 to near light in under half a second.
Flash + Freeze ray can be explained as different universe or different sort of Freeze ray, also him not being effected like that doesn't make sense as cold slows things down as it's the absence of motion on a molecular or atomic level.
Superman not being affected by any sort of Kryptonite but what can be found in his own is kinda stupid, Kryptonite should be Kryptonite.
Nth Metal? Why should Earth-12 Nth Metal effect Orange Light or a Lantern construct from another universe the same as it does on Earth-12. Also Paragon has trained to fight the Hawks from his universe that use Nth metal weapons.

 

[Sockmonkey]

He nerfed Nth Metal, because DCAU Nth metal disrupts constructs on contact, yet he was handling Hawkgirl's mace with his tendrils.

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Did the tendril grab it by the head or the handle? Because the handle would have been covered by a grippy insulating material.

 

[Vaermina]

Stop Vaerminaposting if you're just going to ignore all evidence to the contra- oh right.

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Stop Ardyposting if you're just going to keep making claims that aren't backed up by things in the source material.

They need to activate and build up to that speed, neither can or does go from 0 to near light in under half a second.

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Actually they were shown going from a full stop to DBZ can't see anything till they appear level superspeed in the DCAU.

Flash + Freeze ray can be explained as different universe or different sort of Freeze ray, also him not being effected like that doesn't make sense as cold slows things down as it's the absence of motion on a molecular or atomic level.

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Unlike the Young Justice Flash, the DCAU Flash get's his speed from the Speed Force, and it laughs at physics.

Superman not being affected by any sort of Kryptonite but what can be found in his own is kinda stupid, Kryptonite should be Kryptonite.

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Krypton is destroyed in a different manner in almost every single setting.

A better question is why you would assume Kryptonite from a planet destroyed by Brainiac, would be the same as Kryptonite from a planet destroyed because it had a uranium core that went supercritical, or one destroyed due to destabilization caused by geothermal power taps, or even one that was destroyed because it's star went nova.

Simple fact is, like Kryptonians are different in every setting, so to is the Kryptonite.

Nth Metal? Why should Earth-12 Nth Metal effect Orange Light or a Lantern construct from another universe the same as it does on Earth-12. Also Paragon has trained to fight the Hawks from his universe that use Nth metal weapons.

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Because the DCAU did the Crisis Two Earth's and their Nth Metal was actually shown to.

Did the tendril grab it by the head or the handle? Because the handle would have been covered by a grippy insulating material.

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In the DCAU Hawkwoman's mace has no grip, it's Nth Metal all the way down.

 

[BlueMangoAdea]

I am sort of planning an episode where Jade's from multiple parallel universes meet. Bat Jade, Green Lantern Jade, SI Jade and canon Jade 16 hang out with New Jade, who may have blown up a country but is finding the fact that every other version of her wears a cat mask really freaky.

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Is this going to be relevant soon?

 

[Mr Zoat]

Plan 'Don't Fuck Up The Universe'
Is In Effect

"So this will make changing time… Impossible."

"Well… Sort of."

Red Queen is patiently waiting a short distance away while Time Trapper makes the final alterations to the tuning fork. Angelika's staying back a little, clearly not entirely sure that this is something we should be doing but willing to let my judgement stand.

"You could go back and change time, but all that would do is create a new future separate to the one you knew. You could just go and live in that new future and from your point of view it would be exactly as if you'd changed your own history. And no one else would know anything had happened apart from you disappearing."

"But there'd be two of you."

"You say that after being strapped to a giant tuning fork with two hundred of us." He floats back, lowering the tool he was using. "Most of the time it wouldn't be a problem. It doesn't take much to prevent a person being born. It's only-."

"People from parallel universes. Like us."

"I was on our Earth for over a year before I found out about the temporal change. I just thought I was on an Elseworld or something."

"So… What is different?"

"Most things. Somehow…" He glances at Red Queen. "Jade got born, but our history was changed over two thousand years ago. America was mostly colonised from Asia, we're firmly in the space age… Well, were and will be again."

I nod.

John Stewart's eyes glow as he looks over Time Trapper's work.

"And you're sure this will just change your parallel?"

"As sure as I can be. Having that many alternate versions of myself let me eliminate them as variables. There isn't anything else I can think to do that will increase my chances." He floats back a little more. "So if you're planning on forcing me to stop, let's have this out now."

John ignores the challenge. "I can't tell exactly what this thing will do, but it isn't going to affect any other parallel universes. I'll give you as much help as I can."

"Thank you." He nods. "Thank you."

"What do we do?"

"Not a lot, really. If everything works as it should, the worst you'll see is me evaporating."

"What?"

"Hm? Oh, no, it won't kill me. 'Time Trapper' is a chronal aberration, and what we're doing should reintegrate me within my own timeline with my memories intact at the point where Vandal Savage originally left in yours. I'm not planning on recreating something I can't enjoy myself."

"If you're gone, how do I get home?"

"You might just snap back when I do, but…" He waves his right hand at the tuning fork. "Just in case, it's set to open a portal to the point where you left."

"What do you want me to do?"

"Oh, nothing. Just being here to give the tuning fork your temporal variance is enough." He claps his hands together. "Right. Starting it now. If you feel anything off, then… Either you're wrong or it's too late."

I… Do try to feel anything, but aside from a slight glow coming from the tuning fork I'm not getting… No, there's… Something, but-. A weak-. No, not weak, just… Small.

My favourite book is Small Gods by Terry Pratchett, and there's a scene where Lu-Tze asks Brutha to hold his bonsai mountain. Brutha describes it as weighing thousands of very small tonnes. That's the best comparison I can think of to the desires I'm feeling. I suppose… I mean, I don't have any special abilities related to time or the Bleed. It-.

Time Trapper holds out his hands, and…

My word.

A… Shape, filled with lights, and… Desires, appears in front of him. The outer edge of it looks… Frayed, as if something was wearing it away. I look at him with an interrogative frown.

"My timeline. Or.. rather, a moment of it. All I was able to preserve. But now…"

He holds out his hands, the… Time… Moment.. thing, floating upwards until it sits between the tuning fork's tines. Then it expands, spreading out, rippling and finally vanishing.

Oh.

Oh.

"We met before. Brainiac Five brought me to the future after that mess with the Eliminations Inc people. And then it…"

"Never happened." He nods. "A moment erased by the functioning of time, now returned by the function's alteration. It always existed, it was just…" He looks at his hands as they begin to fade. "Wasn't… Connected. And now… I can't thank you enough for making-."

…

For a moment I frown, trying to remember who I was talking t-. Time Trapper. Who was me, who now… Presumably is when he was supposed to be. Good for him, I suppose.

The tuning fork dims, and a new portal swirls into being between the tines.

"Angelika, I think this is us."

She nods, coming closer. "This has been a strange… But productive day."

"Red Queen? What are your plans?"

"I'm keeping Vanishing Point. And the tuning fork. Since I'm the only one who understands how it works."

John nods. "This is a capacity we don't want anyone to use, but that we want to keep our hands on just in case."

I nod. "Sensible." I take a last look around. It's fascinating that these places exist, but… There isn't really anything here for me. I focus on returning to Jade and accelerate towards the portal, Angelika close behind me.

2nd April 2012
09:12 GMT -5, yet again

And… Back in the mountain. In front of the giant hole Angelika made in the wall between the corridor and the emergency exit staircase.

"Ah." … "Oops."

I hold out my left hand and call my rings. They arrive a few seconds later, a visibly confused Ghia'ta hurrying along behind them. I toss her her ring as I don my own, then raise my hand and repair the wall.

Ghia'ta stares at us both. "What just happened?"

I complete the wall, blocking us from her sight.

"I do so like being able to wave my problems away."

Angelika smiles. "I think that I will spend the rest of the day with Raquel. I'm sure that she has many things she could tell me about the achievements of the negro people."

"If she asks-" Wall… Good as new. Now I'm going to write up a report for Hinon and another for Batman, then… I'm going back to bed. "-that wasn't my idea."

 

[Mr Zoat]

Is this going to be relevant soon?

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It's more been rendered obsolete.

 

[Darko]

'do I' not 'to I'

Did Time Trapper restore his Mandate universe?

 

[Idkusername]

I'll give you us much help as I can."

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'as much'

 

[Cuchulin]

Angelika smiles. "I think that I will spend the rest of the day with Raquel. I'm sure that she has many things she could tell me about the achievements of the negro people."

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Maybe start with movie Zulu, then go onto the Zulu Wars (more than a few battles where the British lost), talk about the Buffalo Soldiers and end with the time Super man lost a boxing match to "The Greatest".

 

[Darko]

Maybe start with movie Zulu, then go onto the Zulu Wars (more than a few battles where the British lost), talk about the Buffalo Soldiers and end with the time Super man lost a boxing match to "The Greatest".

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Supes probably never boxed with a normal human.

Though if he fought Icon that could help.

 

[GodKiller999]

Feels like something is missing, like he should of had some kind of epiphany or personal development and it just didn't happen.