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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Reader mode
I didn't expect Canis of all people getting Paul and Kaldur to talk about the problem. Was that just him wanting them to stop dancing around the issue as he found it annoying? Or did he just want them to get over it because he was curious as to why they wouldn't want to get over it/fight until one of them is concedes that the other is right?
 
Ganurath said:
Either King Orin has a serious infection of Treacherous Viziers, or anything OL would've said on the matter would've gone in one ear and out the other. I suspect the former, purists who probably held a grudge over Clea's lack of support for Prince Orm over King Orin. Wouldn't be surprised if they also whispered the accusations against Clea to keep scrutiny off themselves.
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"It's an Atlantean court. It's all viziers and they're all assholes."
 
Mr Zoat said:
"And that's one thing this whole situation has cemented in my mind: I am not responsible for other people making bad decisions."
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Pretty sure he is responsible for Dox giving a nutcase like Khan a power ring.

I'm actually rather curious about what other maniacs Dox decided to equip with the Ultimate Tool then release to their own initiative in the name of trial and error experimentation.
 
Idkusername said:
The vizier was actually the right hand man of the king. His post would be best described as 'prime minister'. The queen in chess is also called vizier in some middle eastern languages, I forget which.
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IIRC, 'vizier' or equivalent was the original name for that piece, but it got changed to 'queen' in (I think) medieval Europe because most variants of feudalism in Europe didn't have a close-enough equivalent to a vizier. Also why the 'chariot' pieces became 'rooks/castles,' and the 'elephants' became 'bishops.'
 
WereDragon said:
Pretty sure he is responsible for Dox giving a nutcase like Khan a power ring.
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What? How? If anything, Dox is responsible for Paul, since Paul is his subordinate. Paul is only responsible if he was supposed to be involved in further recruitment (he wasn't), and if he saw a flaw in the plan that he didn't point out (there was no flaw), or Dox goes acts the rules and principles of the Corps and his position (he didn't).

Prince Charon said:
IIRC, 'vizier' or equivalent was the original name for that piece, but it got changed to 'queen' in (I think) medieval Europe because most variants of feudalism in Europe didn't have a close-enough equivalent to a vizier. Also why the 'chariot' pieces became 'rooks/castles,' and the 'elephants' became 'bishops.'
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I would be able to confirm that, since shogi, chess, and the like originate from the Middle Eastern 'Shatranj', which itself originated from India. Except the British popularised their own version of it, replacing the old, similar to what happened with '0' and the decimal system.

The more you know!
 
Idkusername said:
What? How? If anything, Dox is responsible for Paul, since Paul is his subordinate. Paul is only responsible if he was supposed to be involved in further recruitment (he wasn't), and if he saw a flaw in the plan that he didn't point out (there was no flaw), or Dox goes acts the rules and principles of the Corps and his position (he didn't).
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He's responsible for Dox being in a position to give out rings, but he actually agrees with the idea that it's worth trying different types of people out to see what works. He'd just rather have had a heads up.
 
Mr Zoat said:
He's responsible for Dox being in a position to give out rings, but he actually agrees with the idea that it's worth trying different types of people out to see what works. He'd just rather have had a heads up.
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I'm pretty sure that what you mean by responsible in this context is 'cause' and what I mean is 'charged/obligated to take action in the best of interest of something or be culpable for his own or his charge's mistakes' sense.
 
Chojin Patriarch said:
Or species with shapeshifting abilities. Assuming they haven't discovered shifting clothes or the like.
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I'm sure they're out there, but I can't think of any shapeshifting species in DC besides the Martians and the Durlans. What I know of the Durlans is mostly from Legion of Superheroes, but they don't seem like they'd be especially exploitable trading partners.
 
w34v3r said:
It's not covering up the immediate failures that's a problem. The problem is the ones that look like they might be successes, or the partial successes, or the ones slightly less successful than Homelander.

If they didn't have a way to make things go a certain way in advance they'd have to deal with a bunch of kids whose powers were only partially understood, were skewed towards the powerful, and would have unpredictable final results until their bodies and mind began to stabilize. They wouldn't have any idea which ones would be the real powerhouses until puberty at the earliest, and they'd have just generally had to manage more than one Homelander type subject for at least two decades. If Homelander wasn't a for sure thing, he'd have had 'siblings', maybe an entire team's worth of capes from the same project.
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Both this and keeping fake superheroes going for like half a century are covered by the same SOD.

In fact it might explain why the Boys are able to get powers that don't suck while the main company is still using the roulette approach. That is being the Boys got a formula based on al those fetuses experiments. Unfortunately that formula makes you crazy as seen with the Boys later actions.

As in, there is literally decades of human experiments to make stable and useful powers possible.

The Boys is not only a horrible setting made by someone with a hatebonner for superheroes, is not even consistent or make sence.

You can't make a Megacorp capable of lying and manipulating the world since WWII be so careless and so easily to fall unless you clearly explain why their business model is no longer working.

Take Kodak as an example, their business model was not longer working but they ignored that and as a result they died.

If in half a century they didn't have the biggest cover up possible I will eat my non existent hat.

Of course you can claim that eventually something happened that was too big to cover up but that doesn't not work with the Author making the fake superheroes so useless.
 
As a reminder for those who missed Grayven's version of this issue, here is the advisor who provided Orin with his understanding of Venturian succession.
 
Pinklestia said:
Both this and keeping fake superheroes going for like half a century are covered by the same SOD.

In fact it might explain why the Boys are able to get powers that don't suck while the main company is still using the roulette approach. That is being the Boys got a formula based on al those fetuses experiments. Unfortunately that formula makes you crazy as seen with the Boys later actions.

As in, there is literally decades of human experiments to make stable and useful powers possible.

The Boys is not only a horrible setting made by someone with a hatebonner for superheroes, is not even consistent or make sence.

You can't make a Megacorp capable of lying and manipulating the world since WWII be so careless and so easily to fall unless you clearly explain why their business model is no longer working.

Take Kodak as an example, their business model was not longer working but they ignored that and as a result they died.

If in half a century they didn't have the biggest cover up possible I will eat my non existent hat.

Of course you can claim that eventually something happened that was too big to cover up but that doesn't not work with the Author making the fake superheroes so useless.
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This makes no sense. Why would they get rid of all the other successes? Or are you claiming they didn't and Homelander got special treatment for some reason?

Um yeah the system didn't work, and that's why it collapsed... I don't see what your'e trying to claim is going on.

It's completely possible for there to be inefficiencies and budget issues inside a successful mega corp. The individual projects and departments are going to be doing to each other what the corp as a whole is doing to the rest of the world. The homelander project is competing with the PR department, the people in charge of buying senators, and the executive benefits package.
 
Are we going to be done with Paul soon? Frankly he is an asshole and is no longer even an interesting asshole. Renegade is a thousand times more enjoyable.
 
Low Politics (part 17)
  • Threadmarks
    • 9th April
    06:11 GMT -5

    "…deadlock in the UN, Senator Knight has called for the US to pursue its own policy separate from other world governments."

    Oh, that's a point.

    I pause with my spoon part way from my porridge bowl to my mouth.

    I didn't even consider talking to the probable next president of the United States of America. But America has a pretty strong iconoclastic bent at the best of times, and if they stop bothering with the Security Council there's no way that the others will keep at it.

    No… No.

    I take another spoonful of porridge as I ruminate.

    I need to let human civilisation make these decisions for themselves. Even if they make a bad one, the consequences are unlikely to be catastrophic and it will be good experience for when they have to deal with more dangerous alien parties.

    I…

    I should talk to Cyprian about what King Orin was actually planning. I doubt that Orin will actually tell him, and him knowing that will hopefully take a good deal of bile out of the relationship. It did sound like something a well intentioned but surprisingly ignorant person might try, and I… Don't think it would make the population more likely to vote 'rejoin'. But it might make coming to sensible terms afterwards easier, and I think that trading with their neighbours would reduce tension-.

    Except they don't need to trade with their neighbours. Given the distances and their history of self-sufficiency, there isn't really anything Venturia can get from anywhere else in Atlantis. Certainly nothing in terms of raw material or manufactured goods. King Orin would.. probably have been offering them access to the goods Poseidonis gets from the surface which Venturia can't-.

    Venturia has islands. Venturia's defence is nominally being undertaken by an alien merchant prince. Those islands are easily big enough for one of his prefabricated trading posts to be landed there. Venturia is-. I suppose will be a micronation rather than a world power, and even if they do become a bit more interested in the rest of the universe after this they're not going to be interested in dominating surface nations. But it would remove King Orin's carrot.

    Breakfast over, I clean my bowl, glass and spoon and float them back to their homes in the cupboards and drawer. Venturia is four hours ahead, so there shouldn't be any problem with me appearing. Fingers to

    forehead

    9th April
    10:13 GMT -1

    and nod politely to the usher.

    "Is the king available?"

    "Certainly, sir. If you'll come this way?"

    It's only a short walk to the room that serves as Venturia's cabinet office. Naturally, the room is shielded against as many forms of detection as they can defend against. I can't even see that there are people inside. Slightly unusually, it's underwater, because-.

    "I hadn't thought about it before, but… The Venturian buildings with air pockets inside them. Is it just a matter of tradition or pride, or is it an overt reference to pre-sinking Atlantis?"

    The usher waves his hand through the 'request attention' sensor.

    "I hadn't really thought about it, sir."

    "Because Teth Adom used to consider Queen Gamemnae a-"

    There's a slight twitch, which makes me wish I could remember that comic in more detail. Naturally, I've read up on the woman's history as much as possible, but that doesn't tell me anything about the cultural significance she has in modern Atlantean society.

    "-friend, and the other potential reference in having air-filled rooms is her effort to return Atlantis to the surface."

    "I.. don't think it's that, sir."

    There's a faint chime, and the usher regains his confidence. He pulls open the door and gestures towards the opening.

    "In here, sir."

    "Thank you."

    Unlike the British cabinet where the Prime Minister sits in the middle of one of the long edges, Cyprian very definitely sits at the head of the table. I.. half-recognise some of the other members, though we haven't been formally introduced. Archmage Thalia was part of the team that came with me to Tillettit, and General Megarios was more than a little interested in the potential military uses of orange power rings. He probably wouldn't make a bad Lantern, but he's more… Dox's sort than mine. There's no philosophical conundrum to resolve, aside from maybe his background desire to conquer Aurania to prove a point.

    I stop just before I reach the table and bow.

    "Your majesty, honoured councillors."

    "Illustres." Cyprian nods in acknowledgement. "I understand that King Orin will be sending a deputation to campaign here."

    "He has expressed that desire. How familiar are you with how surface world elections are conducted?"

    "We are descended from surface-dwelling Greeks. The idea of public consultation isn't wholly lost on us."

    "Yes, but the Greeks usually had a fairly limited suffrage. I would encourage you to-." I frown. "Actually, the precise terms of the ballot are something you should probably discuss directly with King Orin."

    Cyprian nods. "If you don't mind acting as a go-between, I'm happy to meet him whenever it's convenient to him. And while I'd rather my cousin wasn't in attendance, I won't insist upon it."

    "Right. I should probably warn you that not only am I not his favourite person in the world right now, his… Actual plan for preserving Atlantean unity wasn't as confrontational as you were assuming it was."

    "What makes you think that?"

    "I live with Kaldur'ahm. We had a… Fairly robust exchange of views at dinner last night, and according to him, King Orin's plan was to apply diplomatic pressure on you until you peacefully accepted Ptra."

    Cyprian looks mildly puzzled. "I would never have done that. Quite apart from anything else it would be completely against Queen Clea's wishes."

    "I know that and you know that but apparently King Orin didn't know that. And with the military option firmly off the table I think it might be wise for the two of you to have a slightly more expansive discussion, because whatever the outcome of the vote you're going to have to live with one another afterwards."

    Cyprian meets the eyes of a few of his ministers before nodding to me.

    "It sounds as if that would be wise."

    "In other news, the individual whom my Corps dispatched to guarantee your independence has arrived and is… In a way which is actually completely in keeping with my Corps' operating philosophy, expanding his mercantile interests to include Earth. Would you at all be interested in leasing one of your islands to him?"

    I hold up my hands.

    "To be completely clear, it's not at all conditional, you're not obliged to agree, but Poseidonis has become a lot richer as a result of trading with the surface and I thought that you might like the opportunity brought to your attention."

    "It's worth investigating, I suppose. And it would be politic for me to meet with the Lantern in command anyway. How long will it take to arrange to speak with him?"

    "Speaking with could be difficult. Being spoken to by him on the other hand is extremely easy."
     
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