With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

[ptb_ptb]

wouldn't call that 'rape'. It was really… More like murder. Her original personality and values don't exist any more; it's like her body is inhabited by a new person who's a bit like her former self.

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Well then. Congratulations on managing to combine necrophillia and pedophillia.

 

[Darko]

Well, they're effectively new people in pre-existing bodies. But they're still actually the original person, just altered on a fundamental level.

Meaning, someone with equal or greater skill at altering a persons core desires with the Orange Light could alter them back. Or alter them in any other way they wished, really.

Cake Man to the rescue? Eventually, maybe.

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Plus even if they are completely new people the Guardians can make sure he isn't able to alter other people.

Really hope this version of Paul gets taken down by one of the others sometime in the future, and it doesn't end like when Paul went to -14, leaving the Syndicate still standing.

 

[Agumentic]

In fairness he does tend to lose.

So to be more accurate I guess you could say that "Villains will always lose, even if they've won for a time"

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Everyone loses in the end, so it's not saying much. "Things happen, and then they stop happening" is the description of the entire universe, really.

 

[Darko]

Everyone loses in the end, so it's not saying much. "Things happen, and then they stop happening" is the description of the entire universe, really.

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Yes, but the likes of Darkseid get to see their goals of conquest and other such things get destroyed in front of their eyes.

 

[Slayer Anderson]

In fairness he does tend to lose.

So to be more accurate I guess you could say that "Villains will always lose, even if they've won for a time"

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He tends to lose on screen against the primary Earth-based superheroes, yes, but win against everyone and everything else, up to and including offensives by the entire Green Lantern Corps.

Also, it's less like he 'loses,' and more like he 'doesn't get to completely win' since he usually retreats in pretty good order with minimal important loses.

I tend to regard the 'Book of Fate' stuff in DC as pretty hard-core stupid nonsense.


I think this AU is pretty interesting. I'd really like to see the knock-on effects of what the SI's been doing and whether or not there's something like the Justice Underground full of former villains turned freedom fighters running around under the radar.

 

[Idkusername]

Well, they're effectively new people in pre-existing bodies. But they're still actually the original person, just altered on a fundamental level.

Meaning, someone with equal or greater skill at altering a persons core desires with the Orange Light could alter them back. Or alter them in any other way they wished, really.

Cake Man to the rescue? Eventually, maybe.

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Well, if you want be pedantic about it, you're right, but you get what I mean.

What you describe though wouldn't be returning their original personalities to them, it'll just be that functionally. They'll be more like a third personality instead of the original one, and even that would be murder, ethically if not legally, because the new personalities are still distinct individuals.

 

[Darko]

I think this AU is pretty interesting. I'd really like to see the knock-on effects of what the SI's been doing and whether or not there's something like the Justice Underground full of former villains turned freedom fighters running around under the radar.

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Seems like there is, or at least he suspected there is if he wanted to find out who else she told about him.

 

[Ngamer11]

He hasn't founded a Corps. He actually hasn't spent all that much time off Earth.

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That's one silver lining I guess. He's limited to Earth, at least for now.

If anyone wants to get a bit of a breather from this chapter then I recommend you read theirishdreamers The Traveling Merchant story on SB, specifically the part called A Merchants Dimensional long fhada.

There is a part where the MC and Kara travel to the Wanted universe and later on destroy the villains by freeing several of the brainwashed heroes, going to the Justice League universe and I think two versions of the Wanted universe where the bad guys didn't win, and recruiting members from there to invade.

The Professor gets his head smashed in by either his universes version of Superman, or one from the universe where they didn't win, Wesley gets his head smashed in by a Hawkwoman expy, while Fox proves why engaging in depraved villainous shit will only get you killed and is a poor way of making friends.

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Thank you for the reading recommendation.

He's really more like Darkseid. Rather than be a brutalist tyrant and enforce his rule with hopelessness, he's an enlightened tyrant who uses his mental influence abilities to make people want to do what he wants. The Justice League would obviously oppose someone using mind control as he does, even if there was a net utilitarian gain... So they had to go. And if they have to go anyway... May as well use them.

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Since no one wants to coin a name for this version of Paul, I am suggesting Lighter Shade of Darkseid, or LSD for short. This is just so that we have a name for him, and not have to call him evil Paul all the time. I am also certain that we'll eventually see another evil Paul in the future, so this is to differentiate the evil Pauls.

Also, would Darkseid think this Paul is good enough to be one of his servants? This is because he is sorta doing what Darkseid wants to do to the whole universe.

 

[Darko]

Well, if you want be pedantic about it, you're right, but you get what I mean.

What you describe though wouldn't be returning their original personalities to them, it'll just be that functionally. They'll be more like a third personality instead of the original one, and even that would be murder, ethically if not legally, because the new personalities are still distinct individuals.

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Paul is an enlightened Lantern and has experience in manipulating peoples desires.

This version may think that he has completely gotten rid of their personalities, but they may be still floating around in the back, so maybe paragon can bring them back. Hopefully.

Thank you for the reading recommendation.

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No problem, but be warned that the grammar may be a bit of a problem.

This story, The Traveling Merchant, is a spin off of another story of his called The Dark Shard, which is a YJ SI story.

Also I'm not sure that this version is doing what Darkseid is doing,as while both of them are evil, Darkseid is trying to essentially crush all hope in the universe, while this version of Paul isn't trying to do that.

Though yeah both are pretty close as they want to have the universe follow their every whim and are willing to destroy its ability to fight them.

I also don't think this version would make a good servant for Darkseid as while his servants will scheme and kill each other at the end of the day they are still loyal to Darkseid and may find it difficult to even think of overthrowing him. Remember that scene in the Superman cartoon with the slaves help him.

This version of Paul wants to be the one in charge so he would most likely make a poor servant unless Darkseid mind whammied him.

 

[nogoodnames]

Looking up Eye of Zoltec it is literally called the Eye of Evil from a British comic series, according to comic vine it was used as a mind control mcguffin so no wonder Annoying Orange is so evil. It is definitely a good thing this Orange Lantern never merged with the Ophidian. When Paul was gaining enlightenment mass mind control was one of his minor desires so not as surprising to see one of his alternatives went to the extreme.

 

[Darko]

Looking up Eye of Zoltec it is literally called the Eye of Evil from a British comic series, according to comic vine it was used as a mind control mcguffin so no wonder Annoying Orange is so evil. It is definitely a good thing this Orange Lantern never merged with the Ophidian. When Paul was gaining enlightenment mass mind control was one of his minor desires so not as surprising to see one of his alternatives went to the extreme.

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Yeah I think that the guy that was in charge of the British metahuman department or whatever, and fought renegade when he went to Morgan le Fay, had the Right Eye that made him invulnerable.

So this version could have started charging his ring with the Left Eye, like He Man Paul is doing with that love amulet, and it warped his mind, kinda like Sybarite and his eating of demons, but much, much worse.

That or he found it after a while and maybe because he lacked the protections the other Paul's had, like souls, spell eaters or godhood, it was easily able to make him into a mind controlling sociopath.

 

[Taisei]

I like how this Paul has some of the usual personality markers but is otherwise an unrepentant monster.

Say what you will about him, but by god can this Paul murder people and replace their vegetative corpses with orange light puppets like nobody's business! Don't know why it's necessary to do this, exactly, but he's certainly great at it!

 

[Darko]

Grayven: "The next time someone complains about me going too far, or being too extreme, I'm going to point at you. 'Oh no, you killed that unrepentant mass-murderer, you're a supervillain! Yeah, get back to me when I'm murdering and raping good people, just because they aren't prioritising themselves the way I'd prefer."

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Paragon: The next time someone tries to tell me my priorities are warped and misplaced I'm gonna point you to my counterpart that considered mind controlling and raping good people to be necessary.

 

[Hidden Variable]

12th April 08:08 GMT -5

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Phenomenal job here Zoat. It takes quite a lot of skill to make a villain this good. One you know is truly evil, but he's so charismatic you almost find yourself liking him.

He almost seems sane, so close to being rational that those who aren't infatuated are profoundly unsettled. One of those villains you never want to let talk, as they might actually turn you.

A stark reminder of the evil that man is capable of. And by far the most dangerous villain paul will likely ever encounter.

 

[Darko]

Phenomenal job here Zoat. It takes quite a lot of skill to make a villain this good. One you know is truly evil, but he's so charismatic you almost find yourself liking him.

He almost seems sane, so close to being rational that those who aren't infatuated are profoundly unsettled. One of those villains you never want to let talk, as they might actually turn you.

A stark reminder of the evil that man is capable of. And by far the most dangerous villain paul will likely ever encounter.

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Hey even Luthor and the Joker sometimes seem sane and look as if they have a good point, and a great and talented author like Zoat can certainly write someone that is a total nutcase and evil, but seems like he has a good point and could potentially convince you of his intentions, even if deep down he's just a evil bastard.

 

[Idkusername]

Paragon: The next time someone tries to tell me my priorities are warped and misplaced I'm gonna point you to my counterpart that considered mind controlling and raping good people to be necessary.

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Necessary for him, not the general good.

I'm fine with monstrous protags, as long as they don't lie to themselves about it. We haven't seen enough of LSD for me to form a conclusive opinion, though he does seem to teeter close to unaware self-justifications.

 

[ForeverShogo]

Interesting to see just how horrified people are by this particular incarnation of Paul. It's just so much more visceral than usual.

I do wonder just who has figured out he did what he did, and sent in Empress. He seemed quite convinced he had managed to subvert the Justice League undetected. At least until Empress failed to free Wonder Woman because there was nothing to free.

Though I will say this new Paul doesn't really come across as insane. Like Zoat said. He's an enlightened tyrant. He has probably genuinely made his world a better place. He's also selfish enough to get . . . enjoyment out of his thralls.

It's actually disturbingly sane/rational even if morally reprehensible.

 

[SaltyWaffles]

Zoat, how in the world did this Paul manage to subvert the entire Justice League with Orange light without the GLC noticing? Especially since the League has two GLs on it.

 

[Chaoswind]

Uff that was a ride.

Now I wonder what was LSD doing during the fight with Krona, he probably was competent enough to hide his greed from the stronger lanterns like Paul and Lord Protector, but considering how most of the orange lanterns did during that fight since they were in general a lot less powerful than the main ones and I have to wonder if that fight highlighted his combat inadequacy...

I mean common sense Paul felt inadequate during the battle, so I guess the same could be said about most of them.

 

[DAT_NOOB]

He took on the role of a villain in a standard DC universe.

That's the exact opposite of rational, because in the standard DC universes, The Book of Fate dictates that Villains always lose.

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Might I introduce you to Tales from the Dark Multiverse

 

[Mr Zoat]

Seems like there is, or at least he suspected there is if he wanted to find out who else she told about him.

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He's mostly thinking about other students, there.

Since no one wants to coin a name for this version of Paul, I am suggesting Lighter Shade of Darkseid, or LSD for short. This is just so that we have a name for him, and not have to call him evil Paul all the time. I am also certain that we'll eventually see another evil Paul in the future, so this is to differentiate the evil Pauls.

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Doesn't exactly roll off the tongue. What's wrong with Orangeseid? Or Tangseid?

Also, would Darkseid think this Paul is good enough to be one of his servants? This is because he is sorta doing what Darkseid wants to do to the whole universe.

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When they met, this version of the SI pointed out that while they were both tyrants, the forms their respective tyrannies took were irreconcilable. Which was fine for him, but would permanently limit Darkseid's growth as God of Tyranny.

Darkseid was displeased in the extreme.

Say what you will about him, but by god can this Paul murder people and replace their vegetative corpses with orange light puppets like nobody's business! Don't know why it's necessary to do this, exactly, but he's certainly great at it!

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No no. As he observes, they're not vegetative. They possess many of the same psychological characteristics as the people they replace. They have to, because they have to be able to replicate their surface level behaviours and he knew perfectly well that they'd lose most of their usefulness if they couldn't make decisions without referring them to him.

Interesting to see just how horrified people are by this particular incarnation of Paul. It's just so much more visceral than usual.

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I'm a little surprised too. I mean, it was what I was going for, but he's not doing anything about a tenth of the protagonists down in the NSFW section don't do in the first story segment.

He's also selfish enough to get . . . enjoyment out of his thralls.

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The Warhammer version did that as well. It's just that the people he did it to were evil beforehand.

Zoat, how in the world did this Paul manage to subvert the entire Justice League with Orange light without the GLC noticing? Especially since the League has two GLs on it.

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I'm not sure.

For a start, I haven't decided which version of the DCU he's on. There might well not be any Green Lanterns based on Earth. Or the Corps might not exist. Or he was sufficiently subtle that it hasn't produce any overt changes in their behaviour.

 

[Darko]

Interesting to see just how horrified people are by this particular incarnation of Paul. It's just so much more visceral than usual.

I do wonder just who has figured out he did what he did, and sent in Empress. He seemed quite convinced he had managed to subvert the Justice League undetected. At least until Empress failed to free Wonder Woman because there was nothing to free.

Though I will say this new Paul doesn't really come across as insane. Like Zoat said. He's an enlightened tyrant. He has probably genuinely made his world a better place. He's also selfish enough to get . . . enjoyment out of his thralls.

It's actually disturbingly sane/rational even if morally reprehensible.

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Either someone close to the League who he wasn't able to control or didn't consider it necessary to saw something was wrong and it escalated from there.

He may also not be controlling every single metahuman in his service, just those at the top, while those at the lower levels think that nothing is wrong.

Just because someone isn't frothing at the mouth and trying to bite off the face of the person next to them, that doesn't make them sane. Plenty of people appear to be sane and composed, but are deep down just utter monsters.

Serial killers, despots and the like can appear to be charming, but deep down they're still monsters.

Ted Bundy and Hitler were both apparently charming men, yet both of them are murderous monsters.

Even if this version has improved his world there are methods that don't require you to engage in evil in order to do so, like wiping out the personalities of villains and maybe just nudging the heroes a bit, but not wiping out their personalities, or engaging in sexual activities with them after you've done so. It would have been unethical to a degree I admit, but I think most people here would have found that more easier to accept than what this one has done.

I know the Fantasy one did something similar with the dark Elfs, but they were extremely evil before he changed their personalities and he was hesitant to have a sexual relationship with them.

Sybarite was also uncomfortable with Roulette thinking that she has to sleep with him so the two can work together and accepted that Tuppence no longer wanted to have sex with him.

If this version hears the word 'no' then I'm sure he'd just increase the mind control thinking that anyone who opposes him is fundamentally wrong and needs to be corrected.

Zoat in the first He Man interlude there is a sentence that says 'first time this time'

Think it should be 'right this time'

 

[Mr Zoat]

Zoat in the first He Man interlude there is a sentence that says 'first time this time'

Think it should be 'right this time'

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No. I realise it's not good grammar on his part, but it is what he thought.

 

[Darko]

I'm a little surprised too. I mean, it was what I was going for, but he's not doing anything about a tenth of the protagonists down in the NSFW section don't do in the first story segment.

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One of the reasons for this may be because no one here expected this kind of behavior from a version of Paul.

We've seen various versions of Paul do some questionable things, but at the very least they weren't evil bastards.

Even Baul, who is a criminal, doesn't engage in this kind of shit and if he has to do something bad he may still know what he is doing is bad and can feel regret about it.

This one on the other hand has mastered self justification to a fine degree and doesn't feel regret over what he does.

He also doesn't need to do some of the shit he's done to accomplish his goals or keep himself safe.

it's similar to the reason that people dislike Renegade.

Because we mostly see this from the point of view of paragon we tend to judge the renegade by comparing him to the paragon.

 

[ForeverShogo]

Just because someone is evil doesn't mean they're insane, Darko. You can be both monstrous and sane.

Morality aside, this Paul isn't really being irrational.

 

[geniusboi]

The fuck is the left eye of Zoltec?

 

[Darko]

Just because someone is evil doesn't mean they're insane, Darko. You can be both monstrous and sane.

Morality aside, this Paul isn't really being irrational.

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While it is true that you can be both evil and sane, wearing a ring that influences you to be more avaricious and having a magic item that can encourage you to mind control people doesn't exactly paint a picture of sanity.

This Paul also is irrational since he thought that the best way to improve the Earth was to mind control everyone that so much as disagrees with him even a bit.

The likes of Baul and renegade had the excuse of essentially being forced to continue to do bad and irrational things in order to survive. Baul was essentially forced by the Syndicate to work for them and after its fall he was a wanted man that would have been killed without a trial, renegade needed to keep pretending to be Grayven in order to not earn Darkseids ire.

This version probably just thought that since they weren't adopting his methods right off the bat he should mind control them and utterly destroy their old personality to serve him. Plus we know that various versions of Paul can be arrogant and stubborn and consider themselves right most of the time, so it wouldn't be a surprise that a version that had his worst characteristics take hold would be even more arrogant and consider anyone who even so much as disagreed with him to be someone he should mind wipe.

Some people may believe his methods were necessary to improve the planet, but I don't think they'd consider him turning the heroes into sex toys to be a necessity and there is no justification for why he would do that or why they should let him continue to do so, and they may oppose him since while it is true that even bad people can have good ides, the Nazis and the whole anti smoking thing, that doesn't mean you want them to be in charge of anything, or for them to have any power.

 

[The Unaligned Player]

Gonna be honest my reaction is mostly "This is so far from Uplift I can't see it through all the gravity wells therefore I request that you die and would make you do so should you not comply."

 

[Rahvin]

I really like this version of Paul as a character.

He gives us a visceral look at what someone with all of Paul's munchkinry and none of his morals could have done if given an orange ring out of nowhere, with all of its horribly overpowered orange ring abilities. It's a great counterpoint to the other Pauls, and lets us see exactly how much he could cut loose if he wanted (but never would).

Obviously if you're one of those people who conceptualise fictional characters as real people and can somehow find a way to personally dislike/hate an imaginary person, you're not going to have a fun time with this. But I like what this viewpoint/parallel lets us explore story-wise, and I hope we get to see more rather than just leave it as "exhibit A of evil Paul".

 

[Darko]

I just noticed something.

This episode is called Plutonian.

In the comics there is an evil Superman expy called the Plutonian.

In an episode named after an evil version of a good character we are introduced to an evil version of this stories MC.

I really like this version of Paul as a character.

He gives us a visceral look at what someone with all of Paul's munchkinry and none of his morals could have done if given an orange ring out of nowhere, with all of its horribly overpowered orange ring abilities. It's a great counterpoint to the other Pauls, and lets us see exactly how much he could cut loose if he wanted (but never would).

Obviously if you're one of those people who conceptualise fictional characters as real people and can somehow find a way to personally dislike/hate an imaginary person, you're not going to have a fun time with this. But I like what this viewpoint/parallel lets us explore story-wise, and I hope we get to see more rather than just leave it as "exhibit A of evil Paul".

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As long as we get to see him get taken down then I'm all for seeing him again.