With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

[BlueMangoAdea]

So I am on a re-read of this fic, and I saw something.

"And I found out this morning that the fishmen I fought on Saturday are descended from a civilisation that was probably wiped out by the Sheeda."

"Fairies?"

"No, the inhabitants of Earth in the far future. Some of them look a bit like fairies and they can use magic… They loot past civilisations to keep their own going."

This is Paragon talking to Constantine about existential threats, after the Beast fiasco. So John in Paragon's timeline heard about the Sheeda, and other threats.

So my speculation: Is that what John has been doing quietly? Using his powers as a Lord of Chaos to deal with these threats? Taking care of stuff like that? For all I know, he might appear this episode to help with Sheeda. I don't think this explains why he has been out of contact, however.

Thoughts?

 

[Chaoswind]

The changes time trapper Paul made weren't about creating an infinite number of time-lines whenever a small change would occur. It was about changing the mechanics so that time lines born of large changes would spun on their own without rewriting/destroying one another.

A new time line isn't created whenever you make a choice, that would be fairly ridiculous.

 

[Darko]

The changes time trapper Paul made weren't about creating an infinite number of time-lines whenever a small change would occur. It was about changing the mechanics so that time lines born of large changes would spun on their own without rewriting/destroying one another.

A new time line isn't created whenever you make a choice, that would be fairly ridiculous.

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In fairness all time travel can be ridiculous.

Also what would we even consider to be small and big events?

For example imagine that in one timeline you choose to eat an apple, while in another timeline you ate a banana.

This can seem like small and insignificant things, but what if they aren't?

The apple was responsible for giving you a stomach virus so you had to stay home or in a hospital, while the banana didn't do such a thing.

Without you being sick you could go out and meet someone that you would have a child with, and that child would then go on to do some things that can dramatically change things, like maybe bring about universal peace, while if you ate the apple you wouldn't meet that person and have a child with them.

The conclusion of this is that time travel is a ridiculous concept.

 

[Mr Zoat]

The changes time trapper Paul made weren't about creating an infinite number of time-lines whenever a small change would occur. It was about changing the mechanics so that time lines born of large changes would spun on their own without rewriting/destroying one another.

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Which in this context means that any Sheeda who return to the present will continue to exist if they lose, but won't have a future to return to. Any Sheeda who stayed in the future will be unaffected, because it will no longer be this future.

 

[Impartial Panic]

Actually you can't kill the Queen.

At least, not unless Zoat massively nerf's her, because she has contractual immortality to anything that's not a descendant of Aurakles or the sword Excalibur.

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Chain her up and toss her in an X-pit for a few million years.

 

[Pinklestia]

Actually you can't kill the Queen.

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So? Do what they did to Darkseid's father and stick her in the Source Wall.

Plus the Sword of the Fallen doesn't kill; it turns you into a powerless normal human.

 

[Darko]

So? Do what they did to Darkseid's father and stick her in the Source Wall.

Plus the Sword of the Fallen doesn't kill; it turns you into a powerless normal human.

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If it can beat the guy that scares Darkseid then it can certainly beat Gloriana.

Also the Sword does kill, it's just temporary however.

 

[DrThoth]

Where is Excalibur in this setting, anyway? I don't think it's been mentioned. I believe Shining Knight usually has it, right?

I'm enjoying the Renegade's fight with the Sheeda far more than the Paragon's interactions, so far, just because the former seems far more effective against them, though that's just an initial impression. I think his bombastic nature fits well with the aesthetic and thematic nature of the Sheeda. The thaumaturgic machinations behind his challenge are giving me strong Pact vibes, coinciding with a bunch of Pact fics I'm currently reading, and magic there is to a large degree about spectacle and showmanship, so that probably helps. Knowing that the Renegade will discover the truth about the Sheeda's origins or whatever (and Paragon implicitly won't, at least in my interpretation of WoZ) makes me attention to his segments more.

 

[Mr Zoat]

Where is Excalibur in this setting, anyway? I don't think it's been mentioned. I believe Shining Knight usually has it, right?

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Sir Ystin has it.

For obvious reasons relating to the last site-move, I'm not using the Nu52 version of her.

 

[Darko]

For obvious reasons relating to the last site-move, I'm not using the Nu52 version of her.

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A pity, I really enjoyed the Demon Knights comics.

 

[DrThoth]

Sir Ystin has it.

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And where is she now? I'd have thought either Renegade or Paragon or both would be interested in tracking her and the sword down at some point, especially if they remember her being involved with the Sheeda like she seems to be.

I'm basically just familiar with the Shining Knight from the DCAU, who some Googling reveals is Justin Arthur, but the wiki doesn't make the connection, if any, clear between the two.

I'd have liked to see a showdown between Morgaine le Fey and Gloriana, but that doesn't seem to be in the cards.

 

[Mr Zoat]

And where is she now? I'd have thought either Renegade or Paragon or both would be interested in tracking her and the sword down at some point, especially if they remember her being involved with the Sheeda like she seems to be.

I'm basically just familiar with the Shining Knight from the DCAU, who some Googling reveals is Justin Arthur, but the wiki doesn't make the connection, if any, clear between the two.

I'd have liked to see a showdown between Morgaine le Fey and Gloriana, but that doesn't seem to be in the cards.

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Both would have received a notification if a pegasus fell out of the sky. Otherwise, they have no idea how to find her, if she even exists.

Neither of them would be able to get the sword out of its scabbard.

 

[DrThoth]

Both would have received a notification if a pegasus fell out of the sky. Otherwise, they have no idea how to find her, if she even exists.

Neither of them would be able to get the sword out of its scabbard.

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I feel like with all the arch-mages on both their sides, they could figure something out.

As for the Sword, that's what you have the trusty William Batson for; he even comes with the Sword of Beowulf as a quality prior reference! (I don't remember which timeline wielded it though, or if it was both).

 

[Darko]

(I don't remember which timeline wielded it though, or if it was both).

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I remember that Billy joined the Team in the renegade side and called himself Beowulf, due to wielding the sword and it being connected to Beowulf.

I remember Billy using the sword to heal himself from the wounds Sabbac gave him in the paragon side, but I don't know if he still uses it.

Cornwall Boy may be using it as a battery for his magic now, but it wouldn't surprise me if Billy is still using it due to the fact that he's one of the few people capable of using it to its fullest extent.

 

[Vaermina]

I feel like with all the arch-mages on both their sides, they could figure something out.

As for the Sword, that's what you have the trusty William Batson for; he even comes with the Sword of Beowulf as a quality prior reference! (I don't remember which timeline wielded it though, or if it was both).

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It's Excalibur, forged by the Presence and literally the most powerful sword in the setting.

 

[Darko]

It's Excalibur, forged by the Presence and literally the most powerful sword in the setting.

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Provide a source that the Presence was responsible for making it in the comics, and not the Lady of the Lake.

Also provide evidence on why Zoat would use that origin for the sword, assuming the Presence actually did it.

If you can't do these things then kindly leave.

Oh and if it's from n52 then don't bother since Zoat is unlikely to use something from there.

 

[Stsword]

Gloriana in the comics basically faced a bunch of ragtag misfits, but in this story she's going to face a very powerful and very advanced threat that's been preparing for her arrival for months now..

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This argument is rather funny, because it misses the forest for the trees.

It in no way matters if Gravy kills the Queen or not. There are plenty of people to take her place.

The issue that should be addressed is that it takes a group of seven to defeat the Sheeda.

Which is why they were defeated by a "ragtag bunch of misfits," they numbered seven. In fact the Sheeda knew about this weakness and went around killing superhero teams that number seven to avoid it, which is why it took the Seven Soldiers, by not officially being a team they flew under the radar.

Getting around that by "an advanced threat that's been preparing for months" would be like the Witch King who no man can kill getting offed by Aragorn pulling out a lightsaber.

I'm not holding my breath that this will end with Gravy's humiliating defeat until six teenagers and a dog show up in a van to save the day.

Now while of course Zoat can do whatever he likes in his story, fairy tale enemies having a fairy tale weakness makes sense. The fact that the Queen is a bug person from like a billion years in the future doesn't change the fact that she is the Wicked Queen and Nebula Man is the Huntsman, leader of the Wild Hunt.

Unlike V, who seems to think that any change Zoat makes is to make his SI looks good, I give Zoat the benefit of the doubt that his changes are based on things not making sense to him, or him thinking they'd make for a better story if changed. That doesn't mean I always agree with Zoat's reasoning though. Shrugs

 

[DrThoth]

It's Excalibur, forged by the Presence and literally the most powerful sword in the setting.

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I'm a bit confused as to why you replied to me, unless it was just to provide exposition on the nature of the sword in question.

All this discussion makes me want to see Saber in Young Justice, but I haven't found any decent Fate/Young Justice crossovers.

The issue that should be addressed is that it takes a group of seven to defeat the Sheeda.

Which is why they were defeated by a "ragtag bunch of misfits," they numbered seven. In fact the Sheeda knew about this weakness and went around killing superhero teams that number seven to avoid it, which is why it took the Seven Soldiers, by not officially being a team they flew under the radar.

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I wasn't aware of that fact, not being familiar with Seven Soldiers. Of course, Renegade could conceivably find out about that weakness, if he isn't already aware of it, and form his own team for this invasion from his family and/or allies in the New Light.

I'd imagine Renegade, Doctor Sivana, Magnificus, Circe, Michael/Tawny, Teth Adom and Knockout, or some other combination.

If the Sheeda are weak to the number seven, wonder if they're worried about the original founding members of the League.

 

[Lurking Shade]

Getting around that by "an advanced threat that's been preparing for months" would be like the Witch King who no man can kill getting offed by Aragorn pulling out a lightsaber.

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But achksually the Witch King isn't immune to being killed by men. An elf just accidentally prophesied that he would not be killed by man and a Hobbit ended up stabbing him with a magic dagger that fucked up the spells on him.

(In the books he actually says no living man could hinder his plans, not that one couldn't kill him. The movies just changed things. Don't take this too seriously as a point arguing about your point, I just like sharing LoTR trivia about the books)

 

[Chaoswind]

I remember that Billy joined the Team in the renegade side and called himself Beowulf, due to wielding the sword and it being connected to Beowulf.

I remember Billy using the sword to heal himself from the wounds Sabbac gave him in the paragon side, but I don't know if he still uses it.

Cornwall Boy may be using it as a battery for his magic now, but it wouldn't surprise me if Billy is still using it due to the fact that he's one of the few people capable of using it to its fullest extent.

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Both Billy's have it, but they do not use it to fight because the sword is a fair more lethal than their punches. In short its an option for both of them, but they would only use it against a small number of enemies.

 

[Darko]

This argument is rather funny, because it misses the forest for the trees.

It in no way matters if Gravy kills the Queen or not. There are plenty of people to take her place.

The issue that should be addressed is that it takes a group of seven to defeat the Sheeda.

Which is why they were defeated by a "ragtag bunch of misfits," they numbered seven. In fact the Sheeda knew about this weakness and went around killing superhero teams that number seven to avoid it, which is why it took the Seven Soldiers, by not officially being a team they flew under the radar.

Getting around that by "an advanced threat that's been preparing for months" would be like the Witch King who no man can kill getting offed by Aragorn pulling out a lightsaber.

I'm not holding my breath that this will end with Gravy's humiliating defeat until six teenagers and a dog show up in a van to save the day.

Now while of course Zoat can do whatever he likes in his story, fairy tale enemies having a fairy tale weakness makes sense. The fact that the Queen is a bug person from like a billion years in the future doesn't change the fact that she is the Wicked Queen and Nebula Man is the Huntsman, leader of the Wild Hunt.

Unlike V, who seems to think that any change Zoat makes is to make his SI looks good, I give Zoat the benefit of the doubt that his changes are based on things not making sense to him, or him thinking they'd make for a better story if changed. That doesn't mean I always agree with Zoat's reasoning though. Shrugs

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Renegade is allied with a number of extremely powerful people, which include New Gods, several demigods, a Kryptonian, an enlightened Red Lantern and other extremely powerful people, so he shouldn't be lacking in six other powerful people to help him with this.

I'm a bit confused as to why you replied to me, unless it was just to provide exposition on the nature of the sword in question.

All this discussion makes me want to see Saber in Young Justice, but I haven't found any decent Fate/Young Justice crossovers.



I wasn't aware of that fact, not being familiar with Seven Soldiers. Of course, Renegade could conceivably find out about that weakness, if he isn't already aware of it, and form his own team for this invasion from his family and/or allies in the New Light.

I'd imagine Renegade, Doctor Sivana, Magnificus, Circe, Michael/Tawny, Teth Adom and Knockout, or some other combination.

If the Sheeda are weak to the number seven, wonder if they're worried about the original founding members of the League.

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I'd also like to see more Fate/Young Justice fics.

If you find any then please notify me.

 

[Mr Zoat]

Which is why they were defeated by a "ragtag bunch of misfits," they numbered seven. In fact the Sheeda knew about this weakness and went around killing superhero teams that number seven to avoid it, which is why it took the Seven Soldiers, by not officially being a team they flew under the radar.

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Seven people?

How many people are there in The Light again?

 

[ForeverShogo]

Decided to look it up. Wow. The Nu52 change to Ystin is so fucking stupid.

It's precisely the kind of thing they warn against when they tell you that you never go full retard.

And her armor is one of the stupider looking ones I've seen in comics.

 

[transhumansage]

Seven people?

How many people are there in The Light again?

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would that work? i dont know lick about the seven soldiers of victory comics but shouldnt the seven be like chosen by destiny or something? i figured that trope would appear here.


also what will renegade do bout melmoth?

 

[Ardy]

would that work? i dont know lick about the seven soldiers of victory comics but shouldnt the seven be like chosen by destiny or something? i figured that trope would appear here.


also what will renegade do bout melmoth?

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Unless he comes back to Earth why would Grayven care? He's bothering a bunch of space pilgrims not anything important. OL only cares because going after him might result in better information on the main Sheeda invasion.

 

[Darko]

would that work? i dont know lick about the seven soldiers of victory comics but shouldnt the seven be like chosen by destiny or something? i figured that trope would appear here.


also what will renegade do bout melmoth?

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The Light does now have people that have a great deal of personal power.

Renegade, Adom, The Shade, Circe, so they're not exactly starving for powerful members.

 

[Vaermina]

Seven people?

How many people are there in The Light again?

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Including minions? Tens of thousands.

And yes, minions count.

 

[Coda]

It had been a disturbing sight; factories and homes

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just an insult; strongly implying

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Both semicolons should be commas. (The later semicolon in the update is correct!)

 

[Darko]

All this discussion makes me want to see Saber in Young Justice, but I haven't found any decent Fate/Young Justice crossovers.

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Don't know of a whole lot of Fate and YJ fics, but there is this story called Grail on SB.

It's a crossover with Worm and it's really enjoyable.

Decided to look it up. Wow. The Nu52 change to Ystin is so fucking stupid.

It's precisely the kind of thing they warn against when they tell you that you never go full retard.

And her armor is one of the stupider looking ones I've seen in comics.

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Writing characters with different characteristics can be good as it allows the readers to explore characters in a different light and way.

It can also allow for groups that are disenfranchised to feel included, so it's not exactly stupid.

The character was also greatly enjoyable.

Also the armor is pretty solid looking compared to a whole lot of other armors worn by comic characters.

Ystin's armor actually covers the entire body.

 

[Mr Zoat]

would that work? i dont know lick about the seven soldiers of victory comics but shouldnt the seven be like chosen by destiny or something? i figured that trope would appear here.

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I don't remember it being clear in Seven Soldiers why having seven people was important. I think it was something that the Seven Unknown Men set up, but I'm not sure. If so, the fact that they don't exist here means it's not really an issue.

also what will renegade do bout melmoth?

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Probably nothing.

Both semicolons should be commas. (The later semicolon in the update is correct!)

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Are you sure about that? If anything it looks like they should be colons to me.