With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

SemiAnarchist · Sep 8, 2020

Wow, Grayven is channeling some serious glorious bastard energy here. I freaking love it.

QuiescentQueste · Sep 8, 2020

"I will now permit you to surrender."
A bold move Cotton.

Darko · Sep 8, 2020

Mr Zoat said:
God-powers against then.

'them' not 'then'

Mr Zoat said:
bodyguard or her handmaidens

maybe 'bodyguards' seeing as there are more than one handmaiden.

Mr Zoat · Sep 8, 2020

Darko said:
'them' not 'then'
maybe 'bodyguards' seeing as there are more than one handmaiden.

Thank you, corrected.

thebishop8 · Sep 8, 2020

Mr Zoat said:
I don't know what they can do Sheeda-side, but on a magically active planet like modern Earth the ships can keep it up indefinitely. Not just invisible to the electromagnetic spectrum but almost unthinkable.

Almost unthinkable? What does that mean; like anti-memetic?

Vaermina · Sep 8, 2020

Mr Zoat said:
Because while I can probably kill the Queen, stopping the ship is a dicier prospect. But what the heck? I dismiss my gun construct, fold my arms behind my back and walk through the hush tube in an utterly unhurried manner.

Actually you can't kill the Queen.

At least, not unless Zoat massively nerf's her, because she has contractual immortality to anything that's not a descendant of Aurakles or the sword Excalibur.

caspian1a · Sep 8, 2020

Vaermina said:
Actually you can't kill the Queen.

At least, not unless Zoat massively nerf's her, because she has contractual immortality to anything that's not a descendant of Aurakles or the sword Excalibur.

Maybe so but there are things much worse and far more painful than death.

Darko · Sep 8, 2020

thebishop8 said:
Almost unthinkable? What does that mean; like anti-memetic?

Maybe something like that perception filter in Dr Who.

As in it literary makes it difficult for people to think of the ship even when it's attacking the planet.

Vaermina · Sep 8, 2020

caspian1a said:
Maybe so but there are things much worse and far more painful than death.

He can certainly try.

But with the change made by Paul to the multiverse, her forces are effectively infinite short of actually destroying their timeline of origin.

Handlewithcare · Sep 8, 2020

I love the whole god-challenge complexity thing.

Their narrative powers are really fascinating.

Darko · Sep 8, 2020

Vaermina said:
Actually you can't kill the Queen.

At least, not unless Zoat massively nerf's her, because she has contractual immortality to anything that's not a descendant of Aurakles or the sword Excalibur.

Renegade is a very powerful New God, has allies who are powerful godlike beings, has allies who are very skilled magic users, has a sword that can kill someone as powerful as the First of the Fallen, one of his allies is capable of defying destiny etc.

Yeah I'd say that renegades chances of killing her are pretty high.

Vaermina said:
He can certainly try.

But with the change made by Paul to the multiverse, her forces are effectively infinite short of actually destroying their timeline of origin.

Could you elaborate on this because I don't understand what the fuck you're saying.

Granted that's nothing new, I can honestly barely understand what the fuck you're saying half the time.

Chojin Patriarch · Sep 8, 2020

Mr Zoat said:
4th May
20:03 GMT -5

Much as this sucks, as planetary invasions go…

Ah, Grayven dealing with the matter of that Harrowing they're attempting on HIS world. This shall be delightful.

Sivana grins menacingly as he flips the switch on his hex-generator, and the sky ripples as the harvest-ship that has been eating its way through what's left of Detroit suddenly loses its wards and becomes visible. It had been a disturbing sight; factories and homes just vanishing without rhyme or reason, and unlike with the raiding bands it isn't just a matter of hunkering down until the invisibility spells lose power. I don't know what they can do Sheeda-side, but on a magically active planet like modern Earth the ships can keep it up indefinitely. Not just invisible to the electromagnetic spectrum but almost unthinkable.

Ooof, that's going to leave a mark on the American psyche in this universe. Even if they recover the captured people, there's going to be scars.

The arcane engineers in the Queen's employ will realise what's happening at once, and they'll shout warnings. I can already see insect-riders rising from the stable-bays-.

"It would be so easy…"

Patience, Doctor. You'll have your vengeance soon enough. Swatting a few bugs won't be enough for you, will it?

Sivana's hands are twitching over the console which controls his other tools-.

I shake my head. "Doctor, the Queen isn't even here. I didn't like letting them destroy our shipyard in Kenya, but I did it because I knew it was necessary. If you can't control yourself-."

Besides, shipyards can be rebuilt. You're only going to get one shot at ol' Glory-Bra herself. She won't show her face here again if you fail. And trying to chase her to her era is asking for trouble.

"I know. But to have-" A light comes on. "-them…" He recovers his smile. "There. They're calling for aid."

And the fish has bitten the bait. Time to reel them in.

Jon and Sam agreed to pulling back US military assets once we discovered where the harvest ship was. They may not be real warships, but their beam weapons would shred pretty much anything that could be sent against it. The only avenue of attack is to take advantage of the fact that it has relatively low power reserves, and… You'd have to maintain a constant attack for days and take tremendous casualties to make that matter. China decided to ignore my advice and try that after their nuclear strike failed, and… It will work. After about a week and the deaths of half a million soldiers.

If Independence Day exists in this universe, just point them at that and say "These people are more advanced than those ones." Let them draw their own conclusions.

No. We need the Queen to deploy Castle Revolving somewhere we can get at it. And given how they really don't want to lose the harvesters…

BOOM! Kill.

Even if she doesn't take the whole bait, you'll still bring down one of their prized harvesting vessels. I doubt replacing one is so easy as they would a few bugs. They may well be in the Imperium of Man's situation, with limited or no capability to build such a ship from scratch, merely repair it.

Two blaster-equipped drone squadrons fly out of the boom tubes and fly at the Sheeda air cavalry. I learned the painful way that any attack that doesn't kill them lets them adapt their armour spells to nullify it, which forced me to bench my entire purple death ray force. Ah, yes, the Sheeda have spotted them-.

"They're calling again. Do it now!"

So, hit them with things they can't adapt to quickly enough. Or things that change constantly enough that it's much harder. Quite the challenge.

My eyes flick his way for a moment. "I'm choosing to interpret that as a request."

I raise my right arm, fusion canon construct manifesting as I point it at the harvest ship. Which thanks to Circe hasn't spotted us yet, though that will soon change. This time the gun manifests differently, the ongoing terror of everyone left in the city and the fear of a world under assault meaning that I can afford to put a little more pressure on things.

At least he's getting plenty of ambient Fear for his constructs to be devastating.

Let's see. Don't want to knock the ship out completely…

There. Here I Stand.

The Godspeech equivalent of 'Come at me, Bro, if you think you're hard enough!' I don't foresee Queen Tit-strap being hard enough...

I aim at a point just above and to the left of the primary harvesting array. And I fire, a blinding line connecting me to my target and punching through the far side. Face Me!

I step up onto the bonnet of an abandoned car and stride down the roofs of empty vehicles, Circe's ward evaporating around m-.

Yoo-hoo, anybody home? He's right here, boys. Grab your balls and try it!

One of the harvest ship's underslung beam weapons orientates on me and fires, an entropic ray about a metre across hitting me on the upper right side of my chest. The crashed vehicles behind me decay in moments but I'm a New God. I am fuelled by the Source. And

I did just shoot out about two thirds of the power relays to the lower platform. That probably helps.

To borrow a meme: Calculated. Very sensible, placing himself where only one gun could target him.

I target the gun and fire again as I continue my advance, neatly shearing off the gun that shot me.

"Face me, Queen of the Sheeda!" WHERE IS YOUR NAME, THAT IS WRITTEN IN THE STARS?!

And in her castle, she's snarling in rage, though not showing one iota of it on her face...

For a New God, that's throwing down the gauntlet. A demand that they confront the one shouting it, and a gamble from the one shouting it. Because if they demonstrate their nature and successfully slight yours, you get a very long term disadvantage using New God technology and God-powers against then. Of course, by making such a bold statement you get a boost and if you can make your claim of superiority stick then you keep it. To anyone else it's pretty much just an insult; strongly implying that since they're not one of us that they are ultimately unable to affect a change of any significance.

Of course, all this relies on Queenie having enough magical power to pick up on the Godspeech. No doubt she does, but it's going to be very embarrassing if she can't.

But it's still God-speech. A challenge shouted on a thaumically active planet. So when the Queen gets a request for help… If we're right, then she'll think of this as a personal insult and turn up to put me in my place. If not? Well, then I get a free harvest ship.

Win-win. Just imagine what they can loot form the ship, assuming it survives in any reasonable condition.

With the challenge issued and unanswered, my armour's ability to resist attacks by anyone working for the Queen is magnified… To a point. An unanswered attack will still weaken it, but only if the attack actually does something and is entirely unanswered. I don't have to spend the rest of eternity chasing down one guy who got a lucky hit in. But as the gunners on the back to the Sheeda flies try to find time to focus on the ground targets that they're designed for while the drivers duck and dive to try and avoid the blaster shots… They must recognise them by now. A couple who-. Ah, they're tanking shots, they've already acquired immunity. I could probably power through it using-

Typical adaptive defences bullshit. Let's see them resist a punch to the face. Or a Daiklaive!

Red beams from their entropic rays hit my chest to very little effect.

-my God powers, but that would imply that they were significant enough to warrant it.

Which would thereby lessen his stance, concerning their perceived insignificance. Would it be worth the drain? Clearly Grayven doesn't think so.

I raise both forearms in their direction, generate pulse plasma guns on both forearms and open fire. I do add a little of my own power to the shots to make my point, because there's nothing quite like a coup de grâce that misses to make a person look foolish.

Yeah, no point pumping yourself up if you blow it by flailing like a little girl.

What emerges from the guns are barely visible flickers of burning white, each existing only for moment before losing their heat to the surrounding environment. But in that moment they punch through Sheeda fly wings and harnesses, causing mutant insects and riders to tumble through the air and crash uncontrollably into the ravaged city.

Looks like Sheeda armour isn't very good at absorbing kinetic shocks. Worth remembering. I drop the construct on my left forearm and aim the one on the right at the fliers trying and failing to duel with the far more agile drones-.

No doubt missing the cloaked ones backing them up, because why would you reveal all your forces in one go?

And there's the castle. There's no transition; it doesn't shimmer or generate any kind of portal I can see, even with my goggles. One moment local airspace contains drones, insect riders and a harvest ship and the next there's a giant… 'Lump of radioactive coral' would be my best stab at describing it.

I don't know exactly what the glowing green bits do but it's somewhat irrelevant. By answering my challenge, Queen Gloriana Tenebrae has created a link between us. I might be able to exploit that unaided, but-

Pfft. You have minions to do that for you. Sure, you don't call them minions, you don't even think of them as such, but they are. And they love you for it.

Truly devious.

I twist the knob on Circe's amulet, which starts sparking.

-why have friends if you're not going to exploit them?

Got to love talented friends.

"Hush tube." Stand before me.

"Ping."

And Mother Box is 100% behind him. After seeing the Sheeda at play, I'm not surprised.

"Sivana-."

"Lex is already en-route."

Presumably with what ships he managed to get into the air before their shipyard got smoked? That'll be a useful lever for influencing negotiations.

"Good show. See you shortly."

Because while I can probably kill the Queen, stopping the ship is a dicier prospect. But what the heck? I dismiss my gun construct, fold my arms behind my back and walk through the hush tube in an utterly unhurried manner.

Appearance is everything here, after all. Why show concern for the foe if you don't believe them a threat?

And I appear in front of the Queen's throne, Sheeda I assume to be the command crew at stations around the room and what must either be her bodyguard or her handmaidens crouched at her calves.

Putting on a fine display of Drukhari chic, I see. Putting on her own show of complete disdain for any threats.

…

The bondage theme is strong in this one.

Yes, quite. I doubt any picture you could show would be worksafe enough, even here.

"Queen Gloriana Tenebrae?"

Guns and blades are drawn and I affect an air of being utterly unimpressed.

"I will now permit you to surrender."

Well, that's laying it out square for her. Wonder what her response will be?

Ah, this is damn satisfying. Seeing Grayven stick two fingers up at Queen Glory-Bra Tit-strap is going to be very fun to watch. At least, I hope we get to see her laugh at him, before he reveals his trump card...

He does have a trump card, right? Besides the Sword of the Fallen?

...fusion canon construct manifesting...

Unless he's hitting them with the original series, I think you mean 'cannon'?

Godspeech awaits you!

No. We need the Queen to deploy Castle Revolving somewhere we can get at it. And given how they really don't want to lose the harvesters…

BOOM! Kill.

Let's see. Don't want to knock the ship out completely…

There. Here I Stand.

I aim at a point just above and to the left of the primary harvesting array. And I fire, a blinding line connecting me to my target and punching through the far side. Face Me!

One of the harvest ship's underslung beam weapons orientates on me and fires, an entropic ray about a metre across hitting me on the upper right side of my chest. The crashed vehicles behind me decay in moments but I'm a New God. I am fuelled by the Source. And

I did just shoot out about two thirds of the power relays to the lower platform. That probably helps.

I target the gun and fire again as I continue my advance, neatly shearing off the gun that shot me.

"Face me, Queen of the Sheeda!" WHERE IS YOUR NAME, THAT IS WRITTEN IN THE STARS?!

I raise both forearms in their direction, generate pulse plasma guns on both forearms and open fire. I do add a little of my own power to the shots to make my point, because there's nothing quite like a coup de grâce that misses to make a person look foolish.

I twist the knob on Circe's amulet, which starts sparking.

-why have friends if you're not going to exploit them?

"Hush tube." Stand before me.

Darko said:
Could you elaborate on this because I don't understand what the fuck you're saying.

Granted that's nothing new, I can honestly barely understand what the fuck you're saying half the time.

Honestly, I don't know why you even engage with Vaermina any more. Just ignore him and let his contrary barking fall on deaf ears. I'd hate to see you get dinged by the mods again so soon.

We'd miss your proofreading skills!

Mquz · Sep 8, 2020

Darko said:
Renegade is a very powerful New God, has allies who are powerful godlike beings, has allies who are very skilled magic users, has a sword that can kill someone as powerful as the First of the Fallen, one of his allies is capable of defying destiny etc.

Yeah I'd say that renegades chances of killing her are pretty high.

Could you elaborate on this because I don't understand what the fuck you're saying.

Granted that's nothing new, I can honestly barely understand what the fuck you're saying half the time.

He's expressing it badly, but essentially even if the origin point of the Sheeda is removed in THIS universe, there's nothing saying that they can't come from an alternate timeline anymore, as per the change Paul made. There are no longer a set number of timelines that are kept, so the Sheeda will always evolve in some alternate reality. It doesn't matter anymore whether they evolve on this earth, because there will always be an infinite amount of timelines in which they do evolve. There is no obvious difference between Mandate Paul and the Sheeda so far as existence status or whatever you call it goes, and dimension hopping technology seems to be a lot easier to create / acquire as Zoat writes it than time travel.

Vaermina · Sep 8, 2020

Darko said:
Renegade is a very powerful New God, has allies who are powerful godlike beings, has allies who are very skilled magic users, has a sword that can kill someone as powerful as the First of the Fallen, one of his allies is capable of defying destiny etc.

Yeah I'd say that renegades chances of killing her are pretty high.

All of which would require Zoat nerfing her contractual immortality to be in any way effective.

Could you elaborate on this because I don't understand what the fuck you're saying.

Granted that's nothing new, I can honestly barely understand what the fuck you're saying half the time.

By altering the multiverse so it's branching it becomes impossible to actually stop time travelers because for every universe where you do stop them there's a universe where you don't.

Which means unless you erase their timeline of origin, there will always be more Sheeda showing up.

Mquz said:
He's saying it badly, but essentially even if the origin point of the Sheeda is removed in THIS universe, there's nothing saying that they can't come from an alternate timeline anymore, as per the change Paul made. It doesn't matter anymore whether they evolve on this earth, because there will always be an infinite amount of timelines in which they do evolve. There is no obvious difference between Mandate Paul and the Sheeda so far as existence status or whatever goes, and dimension hopping technology seems to be a lot easier to create / acquire as Zoat than time travel.

I may tear up... Someone who actually understands multiversal theory...

Darko · Sep 8, 2020

Mquz said:
He's expressing it badly, but essentially even if the origin point of the Sheeda is removed in THIS universe, there's nothing saying that they can't come from an alternate timeline anymore, as per the change Paul made. There are no longer a set number of timelines that are kept, so the Sheeda will always evolve in some alternate reality. It doesn't matter anymore whether they evolve on this earth, because there will always be an infinite amount of timelines in which they do evolve. There is no obvious difference between Mandate Paul and the Sheeda so far as existence status or whatever you call it goes, and dimension hopping technology seems to be a lot easier to create / acquire as Zoat writes it than time travel.

Vaermina said:
By altering the multiverse so it's branching it becomes impossible to actually stop time travelers because for every universe where you do stop them there's a universe where you don't.

Which means unless you erase their timeline of origin, there will always be more Sheeda showing up.

See the problem with this is that why would an infinite number of Sheeda attack this particular version of Earth 16, instead of say another version of it?

Renegade can win this battle and the Sheeda will no longer bother him or his universe, even if they keep attacking some other version.

Vaermina said:
All of which would require Zoat nerfing her contractual immortality to be in any way effective.

Zoat can leave that bit in, but that doesn't change the fact that renegade has a whole lot of things that can make that contractual immortality seem pointless and weak.

Mordru basically had a very powerful form of immortality and that didn't exactly stop renegade from figuring out a way to kill him.

I'm also fairly sure a godkilling weapon like the Sword would be able to make mince meat out of Gloriana and her little immortality.

Mquz · Sep 8, 2020

Darko said:
See the problem with this is that why would an infinite number of Sheeda attack this particular version of Earth 16, instead of say another version of it?

Renegade can win this battle and the Sheeda will no longer bother him or his universe, even if they keep attacking some other version.

Zoat can leave that bit in, but that doesn't change the fact that renegade has a whole lot of things that can make that contractual immortality seem pointless and weak.

Mordru basically had a very powerful form of immortality and that didn't exactly stop renegade from figuring out a way to kill him.

i'm also fairly sure a godkilling waepon like the Sword would be able to make mince meat out of Gloriana and her little immortality.

They will attack another version of Earth 16. They will also attack this version of Earth 16. They will attack as many versions of Earth 16 as they want until they are somehow stopped. Also, this might be the "root" or "main" earth 16. Earth 16-0 if you will. If it helps, there's probably an alternate timeline where they didn't attack this version of Earth 16 right now, but this just happens to be a universe where they did. Your point as to why they would attack THIS version of Earth 16 is irrelevant either way because you can argue why NOT attack this version just as easily. Such are the implications of multiverse theory.

Darko · Sep 8, 2020

Chojin Patriarch said:
Honestly, I don't know why you even engage with Vaermina any more. Just ignore him and let his contrary barking fall on deaf ears. I'd hate to see you get dinged by the mods again so soon. We'd miss your proofreading skills!

I have an almost instinctual drive to mock and correct idiots like Vaermina on their mistakes and stupidities.

The sad thing is that a lot of Vaerminas contrary barking doesn't fall on deaf ears, and there are people who actually consider a lot of his words to have some degree of truth to them.

Yeah he can make some intelligent comments sometimes, like when he mocked Tangseid, but most of it is still just garbage that sadly some people actually buy.

That you for your concern though.

And thank you for complementing my skills.

Darko · Sep 8, 2020

Mquz said:
They will attack another version of Earth 16. They will also attack this version of Earth 16. They will attack as many version of Earth 16 as they want until they are somehow stopped. Also, this might be the "root" or "main" earth 16. Earth 16-0 if you will

Or Zoat can just make it so that this version of Earth 16 gets lucky and doesn't experience anymore Harrowings.

There's literary nothing stopping him from doing that.

Infinite timelines and probabilities can make it so that this version is one that just experiences this one Harrowing and that's it.

Vaermina · Sep 8, 2020

Darko said:
See the problem with this is that why would an infinite number of Sheeda attack this particular version of Earth 16, instead of say another version of it?

Renegade can win this battle and the Sheeda will no longer bother him or his universe, even if they keep attacking some other version.

Because there are a finite number of pasts but infinite numbers of futures.

Zoat can leave that bit in, but that doesn't change the fact that renegade has a whole lot of things that can make that contractual immortality seem pointless and weak.

Which again, would be nerfing it, because those aren't named exceptions to her contractual immortality.

Mordru basically had a very powerful form of immortality and that didn't exactly stop renegade from figuring out a way to kill him.

You seem to be forgetting that it didn't actually kill Mordru, just kicked his energy self out and put his human host in a position to be killed.

I'm also fairly sure a godkilling waepon like the Sword would be able to make mince meat out of Gloriana and her little immortality.

The Sword doesn't kill gods...

In fact, the Sword doesn't kill anyone, the most it can actually do is force reincarnate them separated from their mystical power, which they can get back.

Further even assuming Grayven can somehow inconvenience the Queen, that just means Melmoth will take over. And then Grayven will be out of luck, because his stuff very specifically only works once.

Mquz · Sep 8, 2020

Darko said:
Or Zoat can just make it so that this version of Earth 16 gets lucky and doesn't experience anymore Harrowings.

There's literary nothing stopping him from doing that.

Infinite timelines and probabilities can make it so that this version is one that just experiences this one Harrowing and that's it.

True, but that's not stopping them. If they lose here, they can also just create a timeline where they won 20 years ago or something.

Darko · Sep 8, 2020

Chojin Patriarch said:
And the fish has bitten the bait. Time to reel them in.

More like the fly has landed in the fly trap, given their insect like nature.

Chojin Patriarch said:
The Godspeech equivalent of 'Come at me, Bro, if you think you're hard enough!' I don't foresee Queen Tit-strap being hard enough...

Now I wanna see renegade make innuendos about the Queen, like when he was talking about his Earth 50 'counterpart'.

Chojin Patriarch said:
And Mother Box is 100% behind him. After seeing the Sheeda at play, I'm not surprised.

She may be seeing them as an Apokalips like civilization.

Which is pretty accurate all things considered.

Evil civilization doing evil things because their leader is an utter piece of shit.

Vaermina · Sep 8, 2020

Chojin Patriarch said:
And Mother Box is 100% behind him. After seeing the Sheeda at play, I'm not surprised.

An important fact Grayven forgot, the Sheeda had a Fatherbox.

It was one of their Seven Imperishable Treasures.

BlueMangoAdea · Sep 8, 2020

Vaermina said:
An important fact Grayven forgot, the Sheeda had a Fatherbox.

It was one of their Seven Imperishable Treasures.

...A fatherbox from the future?

Darko · Sep 8, 2020

Vaermina said:
Because there are a finite number of pasts but infinite numbers of futures.

And Zoat can just make it so that in a lot of those futures the Sheeda just died of something, like say plague or civil war, or even never came about.

Also this raises an interesting idea.

What if there aren't a finite numbers of pasts, but an infinite number?

What is our present was once considered someones else's future, so if our past is changed then our present would also be changed, potentially in countless ways.

Vaermina said:
Which again, would be nerfing it, because those aren't named exceptions to her contractual immortality.

Nerfing is making a character weaker.

Zoat may decide to give his version of Gloriana the same powers as her comic self, but he may just decide to make his characters powers be superior to hers.

That's not nerfing.

Gloriana in the comics basically faced a bunch of ragtag misfits, but in this story she's going to face a very powerful and very advanced threat that's been preparing for her arrival for months now.

Vaermina said:
You seem to be forgetting that it didn't actually kill Mordru, just kicked his energy self out and put his human host in a position to be killed.

So Gloriana will still be dead for some time and they can destroy her army.

And if she comes back he can just assimilate her.

Or Zoat can make it that Sheeda stay perma dead after being stabbed.

Vaermina said:
The Sword doesn't kill gods...

In fact, the Sword doesn't kill anyone, the most it can actually do is force reincarnate them separated from their mystical power, which they can get back.

Further even assuming Grayven can somehow inconvenience the Queen, that just means Melmoth will take over. And then he will be shit out of luck, because his shit very specifically only works once.

In order for someone to reincarnate they'd have to be dead first.

Only two people have been able to get their power back after being killed by the Sword, the First and Zauriel.

Zoat can just make it so that in order for someone to get their power back after being stabbed with the Sword they'd need a strong connection to the Source.

If you dislike this idea and think it's wrong then provide a list on the abilities and limitations of the Sword, if you don't do this then kindly shut up.

Zoat can also make it so that Melmoh is really dead in the renegade side like how he made it so that Xor's ship actually arrived at that prison instead of malfunctioning like in the paragon side.

Also why would renegades shit only work once?

The Sword can work multiple times, like how the First was stabbed by that Succubus and later on by Paul in the Prayer episode.

Mquz said:
True, but that's not stopping them. If they lose here, they can also just create a timeline where they won 20 years ago or something.

Or renegade can stop them with anything Sivana and his Mother Box have.

They've been preparing to fight them for months now so they may have foreseen some time manipulation bullshit from the Sheeda and decided to make it so they don't experience that, like trapping the Sheeda once they enter the present day.

Vaermina said:
An important fact Grayven forgot, the Sheeda had a Fatherbox.

And Zoat can just make it so that this version of the Sheeda never had a Father Box.

BlueMangoAdea said:
...A fatherbox from the future?

No, the past.

If I remember correctly they got it from some New Gods.

Aurakle was basically an uplift experiment on a neanderthal made by some New Gods.

Mquz · Sep 8, 2020

Basically, the only way Renegade wins this is by killing the Sheeda Queen, Melmoth, whoever else might have wanted to keep them alive, and any possible future Sheeda leaders. Because if he doesn't, they can simply travel back in their past and warn themselves the invasion they're about to kick off didn't work. The only other real alternative is that any time travel at all splits and creates an alternate 2nd timeline (the Stein's Gate scenario), and this isn't the case because the Sheeda have invaded in the past. Even if they somehow lock down time travel now, there is no way to win. They'd have to follow the Sheeda back to the future and exterminate all of them there before they can warn their past selves.

This is now a Terminator scenario: whichever party is in the future always eventually wins if they can simply go back in time and create themselves or warn themselves of enemy invasion plans or anything like that, except in this case, Skynet doesn't even have to invade: the neutral course of events is for them to exist (since Melmoth made sure of that as per Paragon story)

Darko · Sep 8, 2020

I think we can all agree that the writers of Rick and Morty were right to stay away from time travel, it just doesn't make any sense.

Mquz · Sep 8, 2020

Darko said:
I think we can all agree that the writers of Rick and Morty were right to stay away from time travel, it just doesn't make any sense.

True, it leads to some interesting story telling, and sometimes makes sense if it runs on a limited resource (before Paul changed multiverse theory here it's limited because you can't permanently change the timeline) , and Doctor Who (at least the new series) has "anything the time traveler literally observes becomes something they can't change without causing a paradox due to changing why they did things and what they did", but that's obviously not a limit in DC comics and we haven't seen anything like it from Time Trapper. Otherwise, when you have fans who argue, they can and will continue arguing endlessly until there is some WOG or bullshit that trumps time travel or just until they get bored. And some, (Vaermina), will continue arguing after that.

Mr Zoat · Sep 8, 2020

Chojin Patriarch said:
Unless he's hitting them with the original series, I think you mean 'cannon'?

No, he hooked it up to a Death Note and the Element of MDK.

moralrelativity · Sep 8, 2020

Chojin Patriarch said:
Honestly, I don't know why you even engage with Vaermina any more. Just ignore him and let his contrary barking fall on deaf ears. I'd hate to see you get dinged by the mods again so soon. We'd miss your proofreading skills!

Second that.

Darko · Sep 8, 2020

moralrelativity said:
Second that.

I'm sorry I just have an instinctual need to correct idiots and those who are wrong about something.

But thank you for your concern.

With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Versed in the lewd.

Not too sore, are you?

Connoisseur.

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Umm, ackchyually...

Well worn.

Experienced.

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Well worn.

Versed in the lewd.

Connoisseur.

Veteran Lurker

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Well worn.

Connoisseur.

Versed in the lewd.

Connoisseur.

Connoisseur.

Well worn.

Versed in the lewd.

Connoisseur.

Well worn.

Alive. For now.

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Versed in the lewd.

Connoisseur.

Versed in the lewd.

Dedicated ragequitter

Recovering pendant.

Connoisseur.

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