With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Bramble Thorn · Jun 28, 2021

Mr Zoat said:
"Because it is profligate and unnecessary. Because it adds structural vulnerability. Because it takes a scarce resource and wastes it."

Chojin Patriarch said:
Not what he asked, you know. And really, it seems wasteful...

Ok, someone has to play the opposition here.
I recently saw a commercial for aluminum cups as a green alternative to plastic. Because even though costly to condense from the raw ore, once made it is easily to recycle and use again and again and again.

Personally I think that argument is rather shit because western civilisation can be a shitty thing full of shitty people, and nearly all of those metal cups are going to be thrown into the regular trash same as the plastic ones, and current metal soda cans are. But the idea is fine in principle, and is true for larger things like metal in cars.

Using Nth metal in the capital buildings doesn't consume it or waste it, stockpiles it. In a place that is already being heavily guarded, in manner that makes it rather obvious if someone does try to purloin the metal clandestinely, and in such a way that future generation could dip into the stockpile, but would be politically disincentivized from doing outside an actual dire need.

Darko · Jun 28, 2021

DrThoth said:
I'm still kind of impatient that Paragon hasn't tried instant transmission himself

Technically his Honden trick is instant transmission.

It honestly shares a lot of similarities with the instant transmission from DBZ.

Both allow the user to travel vast distances in a moment, bith have it be locked to a persons energy or something that serves as an equivalent, and both have the user put their fingers to their forehead.

NightmareWarden · Jun 28, 2021

Mister Zoat did the non-Orange Jevek Jos-Jar (Controller who created Effigy) complete any notable projects in Renegade-Paul's timeline? I don't believe Grayven sent Maltus the Burning Martian, so the controller would probably choose another project.

Edit: Oh golly, I hope he's read a database entry on Grayven that included Sunset Shimmer or some description of Equestria. I support abominations of science!

Prince Charon · Jun 28, 2021

Handlewithcare said:
The exception may be an autocratic ruler who genuinely sees a state as being literally theirs.

::cough::ReneGrayven::cough::

EDIT: Well, arguably, but arguably not, as well.

DrThoth · Jun 28, 2021

Darko said:
Technically his Honden trick is instant transmission.

It honestly shares a lot of similarities with the instant transmission from DBZ.

Both allow the user to travel vast distances in a moment, both have it be locked to a persons energy or something that serves as an equivalent, and both have the user put their fingers to their forehead.

Yes that's what I was referring to, as his closest analogous technique to Renegade's hush tubes for universe-scale teleportation (is the finger to the forehead thing absolutely necessary for the DBZ version? Paragon only does it in homage to that).
Though actually, since Dox was able to create a boom tube with his power ring, maybe that's something Paragon can learn to do as well (it's understandable if he can't, since Dox is a genius and all, but since the ring is the one doing all the computational sciencey stuff anyway, Paragon should theoretically be able to).

Mr Zoat · Jun 28, 2021

26th August 2012
20:21 GMT

I frown as I look down at Emana, which appears to be on fire.

"I'm honestly a little surprised that they've got the resources for something like that."

Clarissi Vril Dox the Second twitches in a way which suggests that he'd quite like to grit his teeth.

"I have provided you with intelligence updates on all of the worlds of the Vega Systems, including an analysis of the likely results of your isolation edict."

Ah… I…

Dox has been responsible for overseeing… Everything, really, during my prolonged absences from Vega. The rebuilding project, actually running the Tamaran half of the Orange Lantern Corps, training the fleet… Except when I swing by and drop something new on his lap. I… Sort of assumed that he was enjoying the challenge, but I… Think that I've been being a bit… Neglectful.

It's not as if I didn't read any of them, but there are only so many hours in the day.

"Yes, and I read those relating to Tamaran, Euphorix, Karna and Rashashoon. I just didn't regard Emana as being my problem."

"It-."

Dox is biting something down. I don't.. really know if addressing it directly will actually help at this point, but… I've heard of this 'subtlety' thing, but I've never actually seen it.

"Did you..? Want it to be my problem?"

"If you had read the reports, you would know the answer to that."

"Dox, if I were a detail guy I wouldn't have broken you out of prison. Just give me the summary."

"Emana is a society controlled by networks of corporations. When you stripped the assets of some and not others, that created massive instability in their civilisation. The result of that massive shift in internal power is the war we're seeing."

I frown. "What about their government?"

"They didn't have one."

My frowns deepens. "Sounds like they were asking for trouble, then. Who ran their courts?"

"Whoever the local landowner was. The planet's supervisory council was permitted to exercise some power in adjudicating disputes between the various consortia, but they had very little power."

"'Had'?"

"They were targeted in the second round of fighting and no longer exist."

…

"Huh."

I don't really feel bad about that. They sided with the Citadel, and no one made them have a world war. Still, it is pretty wasteful. Plenty of advanced civilisations manage perfectly well with a single planet.

I look a little closer. "Some of those blasts look pretty big."

"They built weapons for the Citadel. With no market and no ships to mount them on, they turned them on one another."

"So long as they haven't launched unrestricted fusion bombardments-."

A rather large explosion appears on the southern continent.

Dox notices it as well. "A little ahead of the most probable timeline, but perfectly expected."

"What on-? They're-." Drat. "More of them are going to do that, aren't they?"

"Yes, but not immediately. That's an escalation, and the various groups have to decide whether to group together against the aggressor or follow suit and retaliate in kind."

"Why did it take this long?"

"Consortia aren't arranged geographically by alliance blocks. For the most part they were clustered by function, meaning that each one had its most bitter rivals as neighbours. They had to seize control of geographic locations before area bombardment made sense."

Makes sense, I suppose. If they're arranged by business rather than nation state…

"So… What are our chances of getting anything useful out of that mess?"

"Minimal."

I sigh softly as a series of smaller explosions pockmark the western continent.

"Could we actually use t-?"

"Yes. Most of our orbital infrastructure is theirs. Most of the people who worked it were still alive."

"I thought that letting the Tamaraneans have their independence and revenge was… Would be more useful in the medium term."

"Possibly."

I glance at him as he doesn't look at me.

"No, come on. You can be honest with me."

"It was a moronic waste of resources. This was a productive world. It would have been easier and more efficient to extort them than to seize infrastructure and ships as you did."

"There's more to life than efficiency. Though I'll admit, in our current situation, that would probably have been a better decision." I turn my attention back to the planet. "Can't help but notice that you didn't do anything about it either."

"You didn't order me to."

"If I'd wanted a Clarissi who did nothing beyond my orders, I would have hired a pocket calculator. You are allowed to exercise your own initiative where it doesn't directly contradict my orders. And if you think I'm doing something 'ill-advised', then you're free to tell me that." I frown curiously at him. "Honestly, a man of your intelligence, I'm a little surprised you can't model my behaviour well enough to predict that."

"I don't have enough data on magic or 'New Gods'. My models for you were always off."

"Okay, well, let's just chalk this one up to experience and…" I nod at the planet below us. "Work out what we're going to do about that."

Dox appears to consider for a moment.

"It's too late."

"That's a little ominous."

"Social order has broken down too much for standard contractual arrangements to be possible. There's no government, and the heads of the consortia won't negotiate in good faith. The more idealistic ones would sabotage us in revenge rather than try and network with us."

"Individual recruitment?"

"Not worth the time it would take to locate useful individuals."

That makes a depressing amount of sense.

"Okay. Anything else you've wanted to do but haven't because I haven't specifically authorised it?"

"Yes."

"Tell me the top three, and we'll go from there."

"I want to try and recreate the circumstances that led to the creation of X'Hal."

"Get volunteers and I'll approve it, though unless you've already made progress I'm going to say leave it until after we deal with my alter-ego."

"I want to study Qwardian technology."

"The Qwardians aren't alien-friendly. If you can talk a Weaponer into sharing, sure, otherwise it's not worth the aggravation."

"And I want to study New Gods."

I hesitate.

"That… Could be tricky."

Darko · Jun 28, 2021

Mr Zoat said:
They build weapons

'built'

Mr Zoat said:
"So long as they haven't launched unrestricted fusion bombardments-."

A rather large explosions appears on the southern continent.

So much for no fusion bombardments.

Mr Zoat said:
"Honestly, a man of your intelligence, I'm a little surprised you can't model my behaviour well enough to predict that."

He might be good with the hard sciences and running numbers, but that doesn't necessarily mean he's good with other types of sciences, like psychology.

Mr Zoat said:
"I don't have enough data on magic or 'New Gods'. My models for you were always off."

And he's a Paul, so he's extra confusing and frustrating.

Mr Zoat said:
"I want to try and recreate the circumstances that led to the creation of X'Hal."

Hmm, he may have the same idea as that Jevek guy and may be frustrated that their most powerful force, the Lanterns, require specific emotions to function and their recruitment pool is not that big so he wants to make hyper powerful soldiers that don't require certain emotions to do some things.

And I think Zoat mentioned that renegade was going to study this, so we finally got to it.

I also think he mentioned that it would lead to him meeting the Teen Titans, but I'm not so sure about that one.

Mr Zoat said:
"And I want to study New Gods."

I hesitate.

"That… Could be tricky."

You did give Lane data on New Gods and their metaphysiques, so you can give one to Dox.

Though he may want to gather the data by himself.

Maybe you can somehow go to Earth 50 and capture some Apokaliptians for him, or Actual Grayven or any New Gods he has working for him.

Or hell you can ask Knockout to agree to be studied by Dox in some probably very invasive ways.

Given that she grew up on Apokalips her being vivisected by Desaad for displeasing Darkseid may be a possibility.

Katillno · Jun 28, 2021

X'hal? When did she first show up in renegade again?

Darko · Jun 28, 2021

Katillno said:
X'hal? When did she first show up in renegade again?

Never.

She really hasn't shown up in this story aside from being mentioned a few times.

Though I think renegade had some sort of vision involving her burning Psion cities, so there'sthat.

Handlewithcare · Jun 28, 2021

Damn. I forgot who callous Renegade can be.

DrThoth · Jun 28, 2021

Nice to see some honest employer-employee interactions (probably something more in the realm of fiction than reality at this point...).

Mr Zoat said:
"I want to study Qwardian technology."

"The Qwardians aren't alien-friendly. If you can talk a Weaponer into sharing, sure, otherwise it's not worth the aggravation.

I feel like Renegade would have specified Weaponer Lysis here, since she would be the obvious point of contact to learning about Qwardian technology.

I don't fully understand Renegade's reservation on letting Dox study New Gods, unless he's worried that the latter will use that knowledge against him somehow. Sunset is/was basically doing the same thing, from a thaumaturgical perspective, and they both work for him (though they admittedly have big differences in their physical and social proximity to him).

A race of X'Hals would be very interesting. Has Renegade considered advancing Desaad's research on Awakening to non-Earth species? (assuming there are ways to do that ethically that his Mother Box would approve of). Or is it only possible for Earth because it's the Fifth World or something?

Darko · Jun 28, 2021

DrThoth said:
A race of X'Hals would be very interesting. Has Renegade considered advancing Desaad's research on Awakening to non-Earth species? (assuming there are ways to do that ethically that his Mother Box would approve of). Or is it only possible for Earth because it's the Fifth World or something?

I think it's possible for humans to be Awakened due to the Life Entity living on their planet.

jasonh23761 · Jun 28, 2021

Hmm, what we have here is a failure to communicate!

Relevant gif.

Chojin Patriarch · Jun 28, 2021

Mr Zoat said:
26th August 2012
20:21 GMT

I frown as I look down at Emana, which appears to be on fire.

It took a moment to remember what planet this is: Homeworld of the Branx, and the Nimbus. If I remember correctly, the Renegade let the Tamaraneans ransack the place for spacefleet yards and revenge. Guess their recovery from that isn't going so well...

"I'm honestly a little surprised that they've got the resources for something like that."

Clarissi Vril Dox the Second twitches in a way which suggests that he'd quite like to grit his teeth.

Heh. Never underestimate the violent impulses of a species that were the local weapons dealers.

"I have provided you with intelligence updates on all of the worlds of the Vega Systems, including an analysis of the likely results of your isolation edict."

Ah… I…

Been getting a bit behind in your reading, Lord Grayven? Too busy canoodling with your equestrian lady?

Dox has been responsible for overseeing… Everything, really, during my prolonged absences from Vega. The rebuilding project, actually running the Tamaran half of the Orange Lantern Corps, training the fleet… Except when I swing by and drop something new on his lap. I… Sort of assumed that he was enjoying the challenge, but I… Think that I've been being a bit… Neglectful.

It's not as if I didn't read any of them, but there are only so many hours in the day.

I'm guessing this Dox is heading right down his canon trajectory of 'micromanaging asshole'. But really, you couldn't have the rings summarize for you?

"Yes, and I read those relating to Tamaran, Euphorix, Karna and Rashashoon. I just didn't regard Emana as being my problem."

"It-."

It's kind of your fault that they're in this mess, what with the whole 'confined to their homeworld' thing...

Dox is biting something down. I don't.. really know if addressing it directly will actually help at this point, but… I've heard of this 'subtlety' thing, but I've never actually seen it.

...

I... <Bites tongue> So many things I could say...

"Did you..? Want it to be my problem?"

"If you had read the reports, you would know the answer to that."

"The answer, if you must know, is obviously 'Yes'." Boy, I kind of feel for this Dox... Amazed he hasn't snapped and beaten someone to death with his bare hands yet...

"Dox, if I were a detail guy I wouldn't have broken you out of prison. Just give me the summary."

"Emana is a society controlled by networks of corporations. When you stripped the assets of some and not others, that created massive instability in their civilisation. The result of that massive shift in internal power is the war we're seeing."

Lesser corps taking shots of opportunity at once-stronger foes, eh? I can just imagine the mayhem breaking out. Like a world-wide game of Syndicate or Cyberpunk... But with no real win condition besides 'survive!'

I frown. "What about their government?"

"They didn't have one."

What part of 'controlled by networks of corporations' did you not comprehend?

My frowns deepens. "Sounds like they were asking for trouble, then. Who ran their courts?"

"Whoever the local landowner was. The planet's supervisory council was permitted to exercise some power in adjudicating disputes between the various consortia, but they had very little power."

I suppose they needed some manner of interceding organisation. If only to prevent the kind of corporate warfare currently going on.

"'Had'?"

"They were targeted in the second round of fighting and no longer exist."

Guess someone got sick of them trying to calm things down?

…

"Huh."

I don't really feel bad about that. They sided with the Citadel, and no one made them have a world war. Still, it is pretty wasteful. Plenty of advanced civilisations manage perfectly well with a single planet.

To be fair, aren't you basing that on Earth? Remember, the Branx were interstellar before your little beatdown.

I look a little closer. "Some of those blasts look pretty big."

"They build weapons for the Citadel. With no market and no ships to mount them on, they turned them on one another."

Since they had plenty of backstock just waiting to be used, and all...

"So long as they haven't launched unrestricted fusion bombardments-."

A rather large explosions appears on the southern continent.

And people knock me for taunting Murphy? I'm an amateur compared to the Renegade.

Dox notices it as well. "A little ahead of the most probable timeline, but perfectly expected."

"What on-? They're-." Drat. "More of them are going to do that, aren't they?"

Only drawback of them bombing themselves back into the stone age... He won't be able to make use of them in the coming fighting...

"Yes, but not immediately. That's an escalation, and the various groups have to decide whether to group together against the aggressor or follow suit and retaliate in kind."

"Why did it take this long?"

Presumably they had to wait until they had the comparative high ground of being the aggrieved party? Tossing nukes around tanks your international reputation, after all. Or they were led by the Branx equivalent of Civilisation Gandhi.

"Consortia aren't arranged geographically by alliance blocks. For the most part they were clustered by function, meaning that each one had its most bitter rivals as neighbours. They had to seize control of geographic locations before area bombardment made sense."

Makes sense, I suppose. If they're arranged by business rather than nation state…

The map must have been quite the patchwork of overlapping spheres of interest. In the past tense, at least.....

"So… What are our chances of getting anything useful out of that mess?"

"Minimal."

Assuming you can get anything out of the radioactive cinder it's shaping up to become. But unlike, say, the Krogans, they're not going to recover so well...

I sigh softly as a series of smaller explosions pockmark the western continent.

"Could we actually use t-?"

If you'd deigned to intercede before war broke out, maybe?

"Yes. Most of our orbital infrastructure is theirs. Most of the people who worked it were still alive."

"I thought that letting the Tamaraneans have their independence and revenge was… Would be more useful in the medium term."

Well, at least you can see how that bit you in the arse now. Typical short-term thinking of a Renegade...

"Possibly."

I glance at him as he doesn't look at me.

Yes, you can feel his desire to give you the old 'are you stupid' glare, can't you?...

"No, come on. You can be honest with me."

"It was a moronic waste of resources. This was a productive world. It would have been easier and more efficient to extort them than to seize infrastructure and ships as you did."

You might have had to make a few examples of less cooperative groups, but that wouldn't have taken long...

"There's more to life than efficiency. Though I'll admit, in our current situation, that would probably have been a better decision." I turn my attention back to the planet. "Can't help but notice that you didn't do anything about it either."

"You didn't order me to."

Oh, going for the malicious compliance angle, Dox? Boy, he must really be fuming inside, under that iron self-control...

"If I'd wanted a Clarissi who did nothing beyond my orders, I would have hired a pocket calculator. You are allowed to exercise your own initiative where it doesn't directly contradict my orders. And if you think I'm doing something 'ill-advised', then you're free to tell me that." I frown curiously at him. "Honestly, a man of your intelligence, I'm a little surprised you can't model my behaviour well enough to predict that."

"I don't have enough data on magic or 'New Gods'. My models for you were always off."

Probably didn't help that some of your decisions were made on a whim. That'd be hard to code the random factor for.

"Okay, well, let's just chalk this one up to experience and…" I nod at the planet below us. "Work out what we're going to do about that."

Dox appears to consider for a moment.

...Say a prayer for the dead and let it burn?

"It's too late."

"That's a little ominous."

Then maybe you should have paid attention to Vega more?

"Social order has broken down too much for standard contractual arrangements to be possible. There's no government, and the heads of the consortia won't negotiate in good faith. The more idealistic ones would sabotage us in revenge rather than try and network with us."

"Individual recruitment?"

So, short of a total conquest that shatters all existing power bases, there's no options. And that option would basically cripple the systems you want to make use of...

"Not worth the time it would take to locate useful individuals."

That makes a depressing amount of sense.

It's your own damn fault, Renegade. You made this bed, now you're having to lie in it.

"Okay. Anything else you've wanted to do but haven't because I haven't specifically authorised it?"

"Yes."

"Tell me the top three, and we'll go from there."

Yeah, giving him carte blanche might be going too far the other way, after all. I'm sure the Renegade still has some memories how badly Dox can fuck up when left to his own devices...

"I want to try and recreate the circumstances that led to the creation of X'Hal."

"Get volunteers and I'll approve it, though unless you've already made progress I'm going to say leave it until after we deal with my alter-ego."

You'd definitely want someone whose loyalty is unquestionable. No point making a Tamaranean god of war that'll decide you aren't worthy of their fealty.

"I want to study Qwardian technology."

"The Qwardians aren't alien-friendly. If you can talk a Weaponer into sharing, sure, otherwise it's not worth the aggravation.

Of course, Lysis is available, probably. But we haven't seen how amenable she is to sharing her own tech yet, really...

"And I want to study New Gods."

I hesitate.

"That… Could be tricky."

Given that it'll likely demand invasive analyses, and all the New Gods you have available are friends? Just a bit.

Ah, always a pleasure to see the Renegade reap the results of what he sows. A pity an entire planet is suffering for his hasty decisions. I mean, they can't all be assholes, after all. We can but hope that he actually bothers to think about things a little more next time the opportunity arises... Like when the fight with Grayven-16 begins.

DrThoth · Jun 28, 2021

Darko said:
I think it's possible for humans to be Awakened due to the Life Entity living on their planet.

Which in this fic is basically the reason for the numbering of the Worlds, in what Zoat said was 'canon welding' on his part; the Maltusians apparently just moved the Life Entity around the universe and Earth is the current/fifth spot for it.
Though I do wonder if the beings on Earth who qualify for Awakening (which includes non-human life, though I'm not sure about non-sapient, given that Michael Tawny was already human-level intelligent- I kind of want to see an Awakened/New God tree or something now) have to fulfil some metaphysical requirement of 'belonging' to Earth or something. Superboy was created on Earth so his soul would presumably be composed of Earthly magics, more or less, if I understand the mechanics right, but New Godhood doesn't work for him. Desaad's work seemed to revolve entirely around humans, and honestly it's only the fact that it was possible to Awaken Michael that raises questions about the range/applicability of the Awakening process beyond 'homo sapiens who grew up on Earth'; how much of it is due to the nature of your physical biology and how much to the nature of your soul? If Superman and Lois had a kid right now, would that kid be able to be Awakened?
(I occasionally ask if any more members of the League or Team have considered they want to get Awakened; or, for the Paragon side of things, wanted to get the Danner or Garrick formulas if they were viable; I guess I'm asking if there are any changes on that front. I recently reread the whole wargame episode where Green Arrow seemed open to finally getting enhancements of some kind, but I don't think there's been any narrative follow-up of that).

Chojin Patriarch said:
Ah, always a pleasure to see the Renegade reap the results of what he sows. A pity an entire planet is suffering for his hasty decisions. I mean, they can't all be assholes, after all. We can but hope that he actually bothers to think about things a little more next time the opportunity arises... Like when the fight with Grayven-16 begins.

I wonder if that can become a logical weak point that the original Grayven can seize upon; I tend to imagine their godly struggle as a metaphysical court case or public debate presented before the judge/audience that is the Source/Universe, over who is the superior God of Conquest. Something like 'you are a foolish, hasty ruler who cannot manage the resources of your empire' that would (potentially) undermine Renegade's confidence, in a spiritual battle where psychological warfare is potentially as important if not more so than physical combat.

Darko · Jun 28, 2021

DrThoth said:
Which in this fic is basically the reason for the numbering of the Worlds, in what Zoat said was 'canon welding' on his part; the Maltusians apparently just moved the Life Entity around the universe and Earth is the current/fifth spot for it.
Though I do wonder if the beings on Earth who qualify for Awakening (which includes non-human life, though I'm not sure about non-sapient, given that Michael Tawny was already human-level intelligent- I kind of want to see an Awakened/New God tree or something now) have to fulfil some metaphysical requirement of 'belonging' to Earth or something. Superboy was created on Earth so his soul would presumably be composed of Earthly magics, more or less, if I understand the mechanics right, but New Godhood doesn't work for him. Desaad's work seemed to revolve entirely around humans, and honestly it's only the fact that it was possible to Awaken Michael that raises questions about the range/applicability of the Awakening process beyond 'homo sapiens who grew up on Earth'; how much of it is due to the nature of your physical biology and how much to the nature of your soul? If Superman and Lois had a kid right now, would that kid be able to be Awakened?
(I occasionally ask if any more members of the League or Team have considered they want to get Awakened; or, for the Paragon side of things, wanted to get the Danner or Garrick formulas if they were viable; I guess I'm asking if there are any changes on that front. I recently reread the whole wargame episode where Green Arrow seemed open to finally getting enhancements of some kind, but I don't think there's been any narrative follow-up of that).

I wonder if that can become a logical weak point that the original Grayven can seize upon; I tend to imagine their godly struggle as a metaphysical court case or public debate presented before the judge/audience that is the Source/Universe, over who is the superior God of Conquest. Something like 'you are a foolish, hasty ruler who cannot manage the resources of your empire' that would (potentially) undermine Renegade's confidence, in a spiritual battle where psychological warfare is potentially as important if not more so than physical combat.

I think Zoat mentioned that it would be possible for alien species that are born on Earth to be Awakened, but that it would require several generations for it to work.

Darko · Jun 28, 2021

Chojin Patriarch said:
What part of 'controlled by networks of corporations' did you not comprehend?

He may have thought that there was a government there, but that corporations basically had the actual power.

Chojin Patriarch said:
And people knock me for taunting Murphy? I'm an amateur compared to the Renegade.

This is true, but don't think we'll go easy on you just because someone is even more reckless.

Chojin Patriarch said:
Of course, Lysis is available, probably. But we haven't seen how amenable she is to sharing her own tech yet, really...

She did make a ring.

Though so did Kalmin and he's still reluctant to share.

Chojin Patriarch said:
Given that it'll likely demand invasive analyses, and all the New Gods you have available are friends? Just a bit.

There's always Apokalips 50.

And renegade could Awaken some very unpleasant people, like serial killers pedophiles, rapists etc, and let Dox go to town on them.

Though that could lead to a X'hal situation.

Chojin Patriarch said:
can but hope that he actually bothers to think about things a little more next time the opportunity arises

Don't get your hopes up.

Ngamer11 · Jun 28, 2021

I am kinda happy to see that the actions of both Paul and the Renegade led to the destruction of a world in the Vega Systems; Wombworld for Paul, and now Emana Branx for the Renegade. It helps to show that both of the methodologies that they used have their ups and downs.

Mr Zoat said:
"I want to try and recreate the circumstances that led to the creation of X'Hal."

"Get volunteers and I'll approve it, though unless you've already made progress I'm going to say leave it until after we deal with my alter-ego."

"I want to study Qwardian technology."

"The Qwardians aren't alien-friendly. If you can talk a Weaponer into sharing, sure, otherwise it's not worth the aggravation.

"And I want to study New Gods."

I hesitate.

"That… Could be tricky."

Mr Zoat said that trying to recreate X'Hal results in the Renegade ending up on Earth 32, where the Teen Titans exist. Getting Qwardian tech isn't likely to happen. As for studying New Gods, can't the Renegade just give him Sleez? No one important will miss him.

Darko · Jun 28, 2021

Ngamer11 said:
As for studying New Gods, can't the Renegade just give him Sleez? No one important will miss him.

The last we saw of him was renegade and Knockout beating the crap out of him.

Renegade may have told him to leave the planet, or Sleeze left himself after that.

Vaermina · Jun 28, 2021

Mr Zoat said:
"I want to try and recreate the circumstances that led to the creation of X'Hal."

This is going to end very badly given Paragon seems to be getting his New 52 mixed up with his classic.

Because Classic X'Hal was an Okaaran not a Tamaranean.

NightmareWarden · Jun 28, 2021

Dang. Too bad Paragon-Paul's video game company isn't getting this tasty, tasty data.

Mr Zoat · Jun 28, 2021

Darko said:
'built'

Thank you, corrected.

Chojin Patriarch said:
Well, at least you can see how that bit you in the arse now. Typical short-term thinking of a Renegade...

Oh, no. No. In the medium to long term, forcing the Tamaraneans to be self-reliant while destroying a potential rival is the better choice. It's just that it creates a short term problem as we see here.

Darko said:
He may have thought that there was a government there, but that corporations basically had the actual power.

Hey, watch the Rule 8 encroachment. This is a joke.

Assblaster5000 · Jun 28, 2021

Chojin Patriarch said:
Or they were led by the Branx equivalent of Civilisation Gandhi.

Fun Fact:No one that worked on the first Civ games actually remembers if it was an issue with the programming or if they did it on purpose. I know that there's a video on the subject that questioned some of them on YouTube and, if I'm remembering correctly, one of them thought they might have done it intentionally.

It was also the "Democracy" tech that people think caused it since the Gandhi AI has a natural aggression rating of 1, the lowest possible, but the Democracy tech lowers the AI's aggression by 2, so it would cause an overflow error that would give Gandhi a maxed out aggression and make him the most antagonistic civ in the game, beating out even Genghis Khan.

Edit:Grammar, and the video itself. As it so turns out it was likely more so an issue of it being Gandhi, a man perhaps most known for being a pacifist, nuking you that was the cause of the problem, not an actual coding issue, which likely relegates Nuclear Gandhi to the realm of human imagination. At least in the old games.

nick012000 · Jun 28, 2021

Looks like a job for the Friendship Ponies and their Magical Friendship Laser.

WereDragon · Jun 28, 2021

Mr Zoat said:
26th August 2012
20:21 GMT

Consequences!

Not sure why studying new gods is a problem. He can make them on demand.

Deadring · Jun 28, 2021

WereDragon said:
Consequences!

Not sure why studying new gods is a problem. He can make them on demand.

Perhaps Dox's ability to comprehend the data? He might have to be Awakened to perceive some of it, and Awakening him would be difficult.

Pinklestia · Jun 28, 2021

Handlewithcare said:
Damn. I forgot who callous Renegade can be.

He left Dox in charge and the guy decided to no nothing without Grayven approval because you know he didn't bother to TALK to Grayven before this.

Mr Zoat · Jun 28, 2021

Pinklestia said:
He left Dox in charge and the guy decided to no nothing without Grayven approval because you know he didn't bother to TALK to Grayven before this.

To be fair, the only boss he'd had before this was his father.

Darko · Jun 28, 2021

Mr Zoat said:
To be fair, the only boss he'd had before this was his father.

And instead of spanking or making him go to bed without supper for his failures, Vril Senior probably tortured him and starved him to see how he would react.

DrThoth · Jun 28, 2021

Thinking of Renegade Dox's desire to study Qwardian technology, a power ring can theoretically synthesize qwa matter, right? I think I remember Paragon doing it when on Qward to recruit Kalmin, though he admittedly had to tap into the Ophidian temporarily to pull it off.

With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

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