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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

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RichardWhereat said:
Didn't Lucifer kill that shitcunt? It's been a decade and I'm drunk. But I think that's what happened.
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Not quite.

In the comics Lucifer went to the Shinto gods to retrieve his wings.

They didn't want to give them back and tried to kill him, but they failed and Lucifer managed to kill two members of their pantheon before getting his wings back.

Though Izanami planted a trap in the wings.

After some intense meditation Susanoo managed to activate the trap and burned Lucifer until he was near death.

Lucifer managed to survive with outside help.

Later Susanoo met up with Maze's "ex-husband" who imprisoned them both.

Susanoo was able to escape by crushing his hands, which were burned during his attempt on Lucifer's life.

Maze caught up to him and threw him in a pit of fire.

Though he did show up in the 2016 comic.
 
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Well that was nice. You know, would be kind of funny if the Shinto gods try to negotiate with Jebediah to completely replace the whole selection of sponsors, no?

That way they can better coordinate the sponsorship and have sole representation in Captain Marvel; instead of the shared but completely hands off approach that it is right now, what with an ancient judeo-christian king, a greek hero, a greek titan, a greek demigod that underwent apotheosis and in DC isn't exactly that great of a guy and a roman god.

And I don't think they would be that mad if Billy doesn't exactly convert, they seem chill enough in general to understand if he still considers himself christian but would still try to convert him slowly.
 
Lord Ernest said:
And I don't think they would be that mad if Billy doesn't exactly convert, they seem chill enough in general to understand if he still considers himself christian but would still try to convert him slowly
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If it gets out that he's receiving some power from them then it's possible for more people to start worshipping them.

Massgamer said:
Heh, considering his rather wide range of domains I wonder if Billy won't suddenly gain powers/knowledge in regards to agriculture/romance as well once the new patronage is set up.
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He may just gets Susanoo's raw power.

The beings he gains his powers from, as well as the beings Adom gets his powers from, have a wide range of domains, but they only seem to give a singular power.

Bud-E said:
I'm not well versed in Japanese myths but isn't Susanoo the wild one of the Pantheon always causing trouble?
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Maybrme, but Zoat is using his comic counterpart, who was incredibly chill and composed.

Except for one time, though Loki did trick Odin and Thor into thinking that Susanoo was Loki and they took him away to be tortured, so he gets a pass on that.
 
Ngamer11 said:
I think that should say 'One is aware of the actions of the other pantheons.'
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Darko said:
'A couple'
Remove one 'bowl'.
'This one'
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Thank you, corrected.
'such august'
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No, that's correct.
Well rhe sea and storms aspect can go great great with the fields and harvest ones due to rain.
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the
Chojin Patriarch said:
Double Space.
"It may be that such persons are guests in these lands.
Perhaps "One wonders how aware..." would work?
...in place of that of mighty Zeus, if it will serve."
"This one thinks that it would be rude to ignore this offering, or to unnecessarily detain the honourable representative."
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Duke Long said:
'expecting'
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Thank you, corrected.
 
Okay, so for the Greeks, godly power can be put on, taken off, and passed around like a hat, likely with a certain bare minimum for fit and compatibility. So Zeus can be stripped of nearly all his godly power, and it can probably be passed around to whoever Heph wants. Same for Ares. He just got handed the new, incredibly minor godhood of being god of eunuchs. If I'm not mistaken, that's how it works now for all Greek gods. No major catastrophe comes from having an empty position. There was never a god of eunuchs before, and there were no problems. Now that the positions of god of weather and war are both open, outside of certain minor inconveniences, there have not been any apparent problems.

So why do they even need a new god of war? Is it just because gods are useful, so the more friendly ones the better? What would they even use violent, impulsive, bloodthirsty war for anyway? Is there actually an issue from having such a major position left empty, and they need to fill it or else problems? Did Mr. Zoat have an idea he thought was cool, and just really want to write about it?
 
Michael Vonica said:
Okay, so for the Greeks, godly power can be put on, taken off, and passed around like a hat, likely with a certain bare minimum for fit and compatibility. So Zeus can be stripped of nearly all his godly power, and it can probably be passed around to whoever Heph wants. Same for Ares. He just got handed the new, incredibly minor godhood of being god of eunuchs. If I'm not mistaken, that's how it works now for all Greek gods. No major catastrophe comes from having an empty position. There was never a god of eunuchs before, and there were no problems. Now that the positions of god of weather and war are both open, outside of certain minor inconveniences, there have not been any apparent problems.

So why do they even need a new god of war? Is it just because gods are useful, so the more friendly ones the better? What would they even use violent, impulsive, bloodthirsty war for anyway? Is there actually an issue from having such a major position left empty, and they need to fill it or else problems? Did Mr. Zoat have an idea he thought was cool, and just really want to write about it?
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Please don't confuse a political appointment to a position labelled 'God of War' with the fundamental nature of a god being related to warfare. A pantheon's war god is a big deal, and Hephaestaean knows that they need a solid one if they want to be taken seriously.

Hephaestaean inflicted a massive spiritual injury to Ares, resulting in a god who no longer has the balls for the job.
 
It's a little odd to see a white-aspected god of love, but I think it fits.
A touch suprised he didn't make an attempt to angle for a bit more - I'm sure that say, Star Sapphires would be of interest to one such as he.
 
Mr Zoat said:
Ah...

No.

Nothing like that, but no.

Manners, apparently.

To you remember when the SI assimilated Teekl, cutting Klarion off from the greater part of his self?

Like that.
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So in a way Zeus wasn't cut off from his powers? Zeus was cut off from his personality, ego and human avatar control system, which now runs around as the divine equivalent of a (very advanced and articulate) headless chicken? Doesn't avatar Zeus feel really tiny and limited now, with not just his supernatural skills but most of his very soul suddenly missing? He doesn't seem all that traumatized if that's the case.
 
Mr Zoat said:
Please don't confuse a political appointment to a position labelled 'God of War' with the fundamental nature of a god being related to warfare. A pantheon's war god is a big deal, and Hephaestaean knows that they need a solid one if they want to be taken seriously.

Hephaestaean inflicted a massive spiritual injury to Ares, resulting in a god who no longer has the balls for the job.
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Maybe I am misunderstanding the situation. I thought that godhood was really hard to change, grow, or create, especially a powerful one, like war. They already have Ares' power, which, like Zeus', I assumed was stripped and not destroyed. So they were going to find a god of suitable godly nature, meeting their requirements, (like any employer would do when filling a job position), and hand them Ares' old godhood, thus getting a new powerful war god, who is essentially Ares 2.0, but less shitty, and more accountable.

But I guess that they could also take this prospective new god of war, shred Ares' old godhood, and feed it to this new god, to grow their current domain's power, if they wanted something other than the sort of domain that Ares already used to have. Or not empower the new god of war at all, and simply let them grow into their new position over time, and through the new authority they will gain and actions they will take.

As for the importance of a god of war, other than a simple deterrnt, I don't see the point. War is very rarely something that should be actively sought out by a self interested party, as it only ever results in losses on both sides, which leaves them both open to third party interference. As long as the Greek gods look strong enough to stop others from daring to attack, actual strength won't matter all that much. But this is DC Earth, and gods may not suffer nearly as many consequences for conflict as mortals, so who knows. Heph may also be gunning to steal some benifits in ways that may offend others, so I guess he could use the force.

Finally, when it comes to the sort of god they end up choosing, I hope they don't go for the all powerful warrior god approach. Historically, war has gone from being something between groups of powerful warriors, to armies of trained and orderly soldiers, to battles of technology, logistics, and economies between nations. As things progress, war will only lean further into those last aspects, so I think they should go for a god of war who can handle that.
 
Jirachi said:
It's a little odd to see a white-aspected god of love, but I think it fits.
A touch suprised he didn't make an attempt to angle for a bit more - I'm sure that say, Star Sapphires would be of interest to one such as he.
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Maybe he didn't want to push it and just chose to deal with what Paul was looking for.
 
Mr Zoat said:
Please don't confuse a political appointment to a position labelled 'God of War' with the fundamental nature of a god being related to warfare. A pantheon's war god is a big deal, and Hephaestaean knows that they need a solid one if they want to be taken seriously.

Hephaestaean inflicted a massive spiritual injury to Ares, resulting in a god who no longer has the balls for the job.
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Did Hephestean just remove Ares balls or is the whole package missing?
 
So a small list.

Pagoda is the name of a building type, the Kami reside inside the shrine inside the building.

Susanoo-no-Mikoto was banished for being a generally horrible Kami, that banishment was never rescinded. Meaning unless Zoat completely rewrites things LePaul just got tricked.

LePaul's actions would have killed the local Kami residing in that places shrine.

LePaul's actions were actively insulting to the Kami. He failed to pay his respects in front of the gate entrance. He failed to purify himself with the spring water at the entrance. He failed to ring the Bell. He failed to make the saisen offering. And he failed to perform the proper ritual of respect upon leaving.

LePaul's Shinsen, aka food offering, would have also been actively insulting to the Kami. The food had not been blessed. And he offered a traditionally Indian dish.

LePaul refused Susano-o-no-Mikoto's offer to join him in eating the offerings, this would have been a further insult.


So this chapter was basically "LePaul's continual string of stupid actions." Which is honestly a bit impressive given he has a power ring that can download proper information directly into his brain.
 
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Vaermina said:
Susanoo-no-Mikoto was banished for being a generally horrible Kami, that banishment was never rescinded. Meaning unless Zoat completely rewrites things LePaul just got tricked.
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Incorrect.

Susanoo-no-Mikoto was welcomed back after his banishment after he killed Orochi and presented the sword Kusanagi no Tsurgi to to Amaterasu.
 
Nervaqus987 said:
Incorrect.

Susanoo-no-Mikoto was welcomed back after his banishment after he killed Orochi and presented the sword Kusanagi no Tsurgi to to Amaterasu.
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Are you looking at Wikipedia?

Because I know the Susanoo article there claims the sword was delivered as recompense. But if you check the reference they cite for the claim, IE the Nohongi, there's no mention that I can find of his banishment being lifted, and the only mention I can find of the sword being returned to the heavens involves not Susanoo-no-Mikoto returning it but Ama no Fuki-ne, his fifth generation descendant. With no mention made of it being given to Amaterasu.
 
How does Shazam (Shasam now, maybe) work with regards to Solomon? The others make sense since they're all Greek deities or semi-deities, but Solomon was presumably a normal person, maybe capable of theurgy, who should have gone to the Silver City. Are the angels really okay with him giving out power?
 
Rafin said:
So in a way Zeus wasn't cut off from his powers? Zeus was cut off from his personality, ego and human avatar control system, which now runs around as the divine equivalent of a (very advanced and articulate) headless chicken? Doesn't avatar Zeus feel really tiny and limited now, with not just his supernatural skills but most of his very soul suddenly missing? He doesn't seem all that traumatized if that's the case.
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It's not really much different from what he does to himself whenever he wants to gallivant around on Earth. The main difference is that he can't undo it himself.

It's unpleasant, but it's supposed to be. This is a punishment.
Bud-E said:
Did Hephestean just remove Ares balls or is the whole package missing?
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The penis is gone as well.
Michael Vonica said:
Maybe I am misunderstanding the situation. I thought that godhood was really hard to change, grow, or create, especially a powerful one, like war. They already have Ares' power, which, like Zeus', I assumed was stripped and not destroyed. So they were going to find a god of suitable godly nature, meeting their requirements, (like any employer would do when filling a job position), and hand them Ares' old godhood, thus getting a new powerful war god, who is essentially Ares 2.0, but less shitty, and more accountable.
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No, that isn't going to happen. While they have the spells that would be required to tear Ares apart, Hephaestaean feels that would be excessive. But there are other gods in the pantheon who could do the job with their own powers.
As for the importance of a god of war, other than a simple deterrnt, I don't see the point. War is very rarely something that should be actively sought out by a self interested party
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[Looks at human history]

Um.
 
Duke Long said:
How does Shazam (Shasam now, maybe) work with regards to Solomon? The others make sense since they're all Greek deities or semi-deities, but Solomon was presumably a normal person, maybe capable of theurgy, who should have gone to the Silver City. Are the angels really okay with him giving out power?
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Apparently they are okay with it.

The benefits Solomon gives help in the pursuit of things like justice, so the Angeks may not mind.

Also it's possible that Solomon doesn't need their permission to do things.

Mr Zoat said:
Looks at human history]

Um.
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Well maybe a good thing for a war god to do is to make sure that wars don't become too excessive or to prevent certain acts from being committed.
 
Vaermina said:
Are you looking at Wikipedia?

Because I know the Susanoo article there claims the sword was delivered as recompense. But if you check the reference they cite for the claim, IE the Nohongi, there's no mention that I can find of his banishment being lifted, and the only mention I can find of the sword being returned to the heavens involves not Susanoo-no-Mikoto returning it but Ama no Fuki-ne, his fifth generation descendant. With no mention made of it being given to Amaterasu.
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All of the versions of the myth that I am familiar with claim that after he killed Yamata-No-Orochi, Susanoo-no-Mikoto then presented the sword he found in its tail to Amaterasu and was welcomed back after.

I have literally never seen it said otherwise until today.
 
Mr Zoat said:
[Looks at human history]

Um.
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How about we go with modern war. In modern times, it is increasingly so that value does not stem from possessions or land, but from people and infastructure. Those two things also happen to be really valuable when it comes to fighting wars. They provide all the tools and services needed to gain advantages. So they also make good targets, if you want to cripple a tough enemy. Assuming one side actually wins, they would get a bunch of land, a bunch of people who don't like them and will probably fight against them for a while, and some strategic resources, which could probably provide direct value. And this comes at the cost in lives, resources, and money of fighting the war, dealing with all the third party interference, and now all the investment that will be needed to passify and integrate all of that land and people. And that's ignoring the fact that no one can ever know that they will win.

I'm saying that all those resources would have been much better invested into more profitable ventures. Of course, most of this might not apply to the godly realm, and I have nothing to say about that besides my own take on what would be thematically enjoyable. Some other things to say are that rare resources are constantly being replaced by cheaper, more abundant alternatives, which can only be accessed by those with the infastructure and technology to gain them. Also, there can be special cases where war is worth it, such as an enemy or neighbor presenting a clear, exploitable weakness. To talk about the value of war throughout history isn't really something I'm prepared for right now, as it's such a huge and varied topic.
 
Nervaqus987 said:
All of the versions of the myth that I am familiar with claim that after he killed Yamata-No-Orochi, Susanoo-no-Mikoto then presented the sword he found in its tail to Amaterasu and was welcomed back after.

I have literally never seen it said otherwise until today.
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Interesting, as mentioned I was going off the Nihongi, what book is the version of the myth you've seen from?
 
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