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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Reader mode
Bud-E said:
Gaiman has gone on record saying he doesn't like how most other DC writers portray the Endless so most writers/creators leave them alone and as a result, they aren't really shown outside of the Sandman series or whatever else Gaiman writes about them. To answer your question they could be but they are mostly their own thing unconnected to the rest of the DC universe.
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Literally, the Flashpoint event ended with the Vertigo universe merging with New Earth and Wildstorm, which would not be possible if Vertigo and New Earth were the same universe in the first place.
 
All those excuses/explanations of characters being multiversal sound like bullshit to me and just on principle I don't take it seriously. Like Darkseid or, I think I read Brainiac at one point?

The Endless one moment can be at the top of the conceptual pyramid, in other times because they're mostly self-contained or because authors prefer to leave them alone then they're inconsecuential.
 
Lord Ernest said:
All those excuses/explanations of characters being multiversal sound like bullshit to me and just on principle I don't take it seriously. Like Darkseid or, I think I read Brainiac at one point?

The Endless one moment can be at the top of the conceptual pyramid, in other times because they're mostly self-contained or because authors prefer to leave them alone then they're inconsecuential.
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Post flashpoint the Spheres of the Gods is singular for the mainstream DC multiverse- So there is ultimately just one Darkseid and Daniel for all 53 of those universes, but that doesn't make them special or powerful, because the same holds true for every single god. According to the wiki, gemworld, the realm of chaos, the realm of order, fairyland, and Hell are also situated in the Sphere of the Gods.

So I guess Baytor is also a multidimensional being while being a barback in Gotham communicating in Pokemon speak. So being multidimensional and 5 bucks worth of tips would get Baytor a cup of coffee at Starbucks.

And since it was established that there are multiple multiverses in DC, there's absolutely no reason to believe that those other multiverses don't have their own sphere of the gods or a different cosmology altogether.
 
DAT_NOOB said:
not deaths? meeting desire I remember the first one was when he was unboned from the Orange snek but the second one?
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I don't believe there was a second encounter with Desire. When you quoted Mr. Zoat he was referring to his two encounters with Death, i.e. the two times he died, which he doesn't remember like all people that die and it doesn't stick, not encounters with Desire.
 
Lord Ernest said:
I don't believe there was a second encounter with Desire. When you quoted Mr. Zoat he was referring to his two encounters with Death, i.e. the two times he died, which he doesn't remember like all people that die and it doesn't stick, not encounters with Desire.
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Ah I clearly can't read.
 
Uncomplicated Good Works (part 6)
  • Threadmarks
    • 6th December 2012
    15:29 GMT
    I Think

    The room is… White.

    The thick carpet is white, and so thick and soft that just looking at it makes me want to take off my boots and socks and squirm my toes in it. The settee I'm sitting on is soft white leather with white-stained wood panelling. The walls are white, with white frames containing white on white images. There's a white wood table upon which sits a white bowl containing white fruit.

    And the ceiling…

    I can't see the ceiling. Just a… Vague source of light, illuminating clearly but not blindingly.

    My right hand drifts down the side of the settee, and… And that's a D-ring. And that's a D-ring, and… That's a white coil of rope partially disguised as a table decoration.

    "How worried should I be?"

    "Oh, sweetums. How worried do you want to be?"

    A.. person, in a white suit, shirt and tie walks down a white spiral staircase. Their hair is black, jet black, and slicked back in such a way that I can't make out hairs and it just looks like a solid mass. Their skin is similarly pale, though compared to our surroundings it stands out like a beacon. The figure… Can't tell whether they're male or female, and my rings appear to have decided not to help. Given the suit I'd have guessed butch woman over effeminate man, but I shouldn't project human norms onto an alien. Especially a selectively corporeal one.

    "Do I have the pleasure of addressing Desire?"

    They pause on the last circuit of the staircase, leaning artfully on the railing and looking down at me like a… Well, like an ancient eldritch being who has found a new amusement.

    "Shouldn't you answer my question first?"

    I shrug. "I don't particularly enjoy being worried. Jade and I both tried it; it's not our thing."

    "It's not just about sex, dear boy."

    They unlean, continuing their descent with one hand gracefully tracing the banister as they complete their journey.

    "I understand that you're all about purpose. If you weren't worried about something, would you get out of bed in the morning?"

    "For those who seek perfection, there is no rest this side of the grave. And in.. my case, not even then. You decided to egg Admiral Hesk on, then?"

    "O-H." They hug themselves, arms crossing under their pectorals and hands pressed to their hips. "You did most of the work for me. The Spider Guild must be destroyed! All that-" They roll their eyes. "-pointless fear and hesitancy receded and a few words was all that was required to send them off."

    "You mean… Down in a blaze of glory."

    They turn sideways and flop languidly onto the seat opposite me.

    "They get to be remembered in story and song, and die knowing to the depths of their souls that they're finally doing the right thing."

    I nod. Yeah, I'm…

    "You in good health? Eating well, that sort of thing?"

    Desire blinks, then gestures to their body with both hands.

    "Does this make me look fat?"

    "I'm reasonably confident that you can look as fat or as thin as you want. I'm asking about how well you are."

    "Fit as a fiddle, never been better. … Thank you for asking?"

    "You sure? Not picking fights with Morpheus or anything like that?"

    They pantomime a look of disappointed sternness. "You aren't planning on trying to intervene on his behalf, I hope. That would be most unwise."

    "I know what happens when Endless die. We've met before, on the moon. And now I'm here, and my tattoos don't have an off button. I'm absorbing your magic, which, along with my connection to the orange light, puts me in prime position to succeed you if you die."

    Their face stills, their eyes narrowing with curiosity.

    "I don't want to be Desire. I want you to live until the end of the universe when Death finally does away with you, while I step smartly into a younger universe-"

    "Abandoning the universe for a younger model? How cliché."

    "-with a jaunty wave. I don't know how you relate to either me or the Ophidian and I don't care."

    "But you know what happens when we die? You shouldn't be able to know that." They grin. "Tell me more."

    "If you agree to butt out and not take umbrage when I try to stop Admiral Hesk, I'll-"

    "Done!"

    "-hap-. Ah, okay. One of you dies, the rest of your family get the shroud from the necropolis, you each do a funeral oration and then the deceased sails off into oblivion. And is then completely forgotten by everyone except their immediate successor. Which makes me wonder why you're focusing on Morpheus, when you know that even if you're successful you won't remember it."

    "It's not always about the outcome, dearie." They idly stroke the arm of their chair with their left hand. "But out of curiosity, since you're so concerned, who would have taken over from my dear brother?

    "The book I read said it was Daniel Hall, but the Daniel I know has lived a very different life to the Daniel in the book. Though please don't do anything stupid like trying to get him killed; whatever you do it will be someone."

    "Why hurt the boy when I can just hold it over my brother's head?"

    "Up to you. Look, we're both busy people. Do you want anything else, or can I go back to reality now?"

    "Is that it? You're face to face with Desire, and all you want to do is leave?"

    "I don't want to sound like a total sigma here, but yes. I realise my own desires. I've got plenty of my own motivation and I don't need your help. And.. I.. also read a story about a man being decapitated one day after he married the woman he wanted, so I'm a little concerned about how helpful your help would actually be."

    "You shouldn't believe everything you read."

    "True, but it's been more accurate than not."

    "Well then! Back you go. You'd best hurry, dear Hesk was quite set on it."

    "Thank-"

    And I'm in space watching Hesk's ship's gun ports open.

    "-you."
     
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    • Um, being needlessly short and curt, almost, if not outright to the point of rudeness with Desire, one of, if not expressly the most vindictive and spiteful member of the Endless seems like a needlessly stupid decision.

    ....And when I say stupid, I mean potentially cataclysmically, mindbreakingly, Darwin Award levels of stupid.

    Time to start the countdown to the dissolution of OL's "romantic relationship" with Jade to her cheating or lesbian awakening or newly discovered plant fetishism or whatever it may be. Because there is no way an IC Desire takes Paul's behavior in stride lmfao.
     
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    Mr Zoat said:
    "I know what happens with Endless die. We've met before, on the moon. And now I'm here, and my tattoos don't have an off button. I'm absorbing your magic, which, along with my connection to the orange light, puts me in prime position to succeed you if you die."
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    LePaul really up with that bullshit...

    He's very very lucky Desire didn't call his bluff and erase his soul.
     
    AR760 said:
    Um, being needlessly short and curt, almost, if not outright to the point of rudeness with Desire, one of, if not expressly the most vindictive and spiteful member of the Endless seems like a needlessly stupid decision.

    ....And when I say stupid, I mean potentially cataclysmically, mindbreakingly, Darwin Award levels of stupid.

    Time to start the countdown to the dissolution of OL's "romantic relationship" with Jade to her cheating or lesbian awakening or newly discovered plant fetishism or whatever it may be. Because there is no way an IC Desire takes Paul's behavior in stride lmfao.
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    I don't know if there actually was any 'good' way to approach the conversation. The longer it went on the greater the possible failure points. Being polite had about as many ways that it could have gone wrong.

    Better for Paul to just be clear about what he wants. Also since Paul knows what he wants and knows that he is able to get it by his own power Desire doesn't really have anything to offer him.
     
    Mr Zoat said:
    6th December 2012
    15:29 GMT
    I Think

    The room is… White.

    The thick carpet is white, and so thick and soft that just looking at it makes me want to take off my boots and socks and squirm my toes in it. The settee I'm sitting on is soft white leather with white-stained wood panelling. The walls are white, with white frames containing white on white images. There's a white wood table upon which sits a white bowl containing white fruit.
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    How... Monochromatic. Though I don't doubt OL is introducing a little colour into the place. And I'm sure the Owner wouldn't mind you taking a little decadent moment to enjoy Their carpeting choice. It is Their thing, after all. :p They'd likely be amused.

    And the ceiling…

    I can't see the ceiling. Just a… Vague source of light, illuminating clearly but not blindingly.
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    Ah, the old 'endless white void' trick. For when you want to add a little spaciousness to an eldritch setting.

    My right hand drifts down the side of the settee, and… And that's a D-ring. And that's a D-ring, and… That's a white coil of rope partially disguised as a table decoration.

    "How worried should I be?"
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    ...Hey, if the the Owner likes to restrain visitors sometimes, then that's entirely Their prerogative.

    "Oh, sweetums. How worried do you want to be?"

    A.. person, in a white suit, shirt and tie walks down a white spiral staircase. Their hair is black, jet black, and slicked back in such a way that I can't make out hairs and it just looks like a solid mass. Their skin is similarly pale, though compared to our surroundings it stands out like a beacon. The figure… Can't tell whether they're make or female, and my rings appear to have decided not to help. Given the suit I'd have guessed butch woman over effeminate man, but I shouldn't project human norms onto an alien. Especially a selectively corporeal one.
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    How very Patrick Nagel-esque. And entirely true to the source material... But wow, would that trip the uncanny valley or what?

    "Do I have the pleasure of addressing Desire?"

    They pause on the last circuit of the staircase, leaning artfully on the railing and looking down at me like a… Well, like an ancient eldritch being who has found a new amusement.
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    Oh, OL, that's not good. One of the Endless taking an interest in you? Hell, They've probably been watching you since your little moment on the Moon...

    "Shouldn't you answer my question first?"

    I shrug. "I don't particularly enjoy being worried. Jade and I both tried it; it's not our thing."
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    On the upside, if things got a little carried away, his Ring can fix up any damage.

    "It's not just about sex, dear boy."

    They unlean, continuing their descent with one hand gracefully tracing the banister as their complete their journey.
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    And all of a sudden, I have 'You're So Vain' playing in my head. It may as well be Their theme song.

    "I understand that you're all about purpose. If you weren't worried about something, would you get out of bed in the morning?"

    "For those who seek perfection, there is no rest this side of the grave. And in.. my case, not even then. You decided to egg Admiral Hesk on, then?"
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    Hmm... And suddenly Their interest grows clearer. He's Avarice Enlightened, which is probably a fascinating state of mind to Them.

    "O-H." They hug themselves, arms crossing under their pectorals and hands pressed to their hips. "You did most of the work for me. The Spider Guild must be destroyed! All that-" They roll their eyes. "-pointless fear and hesitancy receded and a few words was all that was required to send them off."

    "You mean… Down in a blaze of glory."
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    Obligatory Jon Bon Jovi link! :p And I can honestly see Them encouraging that kind of self-destructive desire. It might not be entirely avaricious, after all. There's probably plenty of Rage backing that choice, but it's all swept up in Their little push...

    They turn sideways and flop languidly onto the seat opposite me.

    "They get to be remembered in story and song, and die knowing to the depths of their souls that they're finally doing the right thing."
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    Ah, letting them get some deep-seated frustrations out, eh? Hardly altruistic, though...

    I nod. Yeah, I'm…

    "You in good health? Eating well, that sort of thing?"
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    o_O Er, what? There's a non-sequitor for you.

    Desire blinks, then gestures to their body with both hands.

    "Does this make me look fat?"
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    :eek: Don't answer that, it's a trap!

    "I'm reasonably confident that you can look as fat or as thin as you want. I'm asking about how well you are."

    "Fit as a fiddle, never been better. … Thank you for asking?"
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    Though no doubt curious as to where OL's going with this line of questioning.

    "You sure? Not picking fights with Morpheus or anything like that?"

    They pantomime a look of disappointed sternness. "You aren't planning on trying to intervene on his behalf, I hope. That would be most unwise."
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    Besides, I'm sure Their revenge will be much slower-burning, if They even feel the slight that set Them off in canon... OL's existence may have distracted Them from that vendetta.

    "I know what happens with Endless die. We've met before, on the moon. And now I'm here, and my tattoos don't have an off button. I'm absorbing your magic, which, along with my connection to the orange light, puts me in prime position to succeed you if you die."

    Their face stills, their eyes narrowing with curiosity.
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    Probably wondering if that's accurate or not. And no doubt a little curious as to whether that's possible.

    "I don't want to be Desire. I want you to live until the end of the universe when Death finally does away with you, while I step smartly into a younger universe-"

    "Abandoning the universe for a younger model? How cliché."
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    Also, OL would look terrible in 1-bit shading... Orange is far more his colour.

    "-with a jaunty wave. I don't know how you relate to either me or the Ophidian and I don't care."

    "But you know what happens when we die? You shouldn't be able to know that." They grin. "Tell me more."
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    Goddammit, OL, now They're definitely interested in you.

    "If you agree to butt out and not take umbrage when I try to stop Admiral Hesk, I'll-"

    "Done!"
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    Oh, boy. Let's hope Their attention wanders before things go too poorly for him.

    "-hap-. Ah, okay. One of you die, the rest of your family get the shroud from the necropolis, your each do a funeral oration and then the deceased sails off into oblivion. And is then completely forgotten by everyone except their immediate successor. Which makes me wonder why you're focusing on Morpheus, when you know that even if you're successful you won't remember it."

    "It's not always about the outcome, dearie." They idly stroke the arm of their chair with their left hand. "But out of curiosity, since you're so concerned, who would have taken over from my dear brother?
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    You forgot the whole universe having a sensation of mourning alongside them. Which raises questions about what happened to the universe when the first Despair, Desire's Twin, passed.

    "The book I read said it was Daniel Hall, but the Daniel I know has lived a very different life to the Daniel in the book. Though please don't do anything stupid like trying to get him killed; whatever you do it will be someone."

    "Why hurt the boy when I can just hold it over my brother's head?"
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    Though Dream will probably just point out that 'That was another universe, another story.' ...And mope.

    "Up to you. Look, we're both busy people. Do you want anything else, or can I go back to reality now?"

    "Is that it? You're face to face with Desire, and all you want to do is leave?"
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    Well, he's not going to try anything sexual on with you. And you should be well aware of that.

    "I don't want to sound like a total sigma here, but yes. I realise my own desires. I've got plenty of my own motivation and I don't need your help. And.. I.. also read a story about a man being decapitated one day after he married the woman he wanted, so I'm a little concerned about how helpful your help would actually be."

    "You shouldn't believe everything you read."
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    True. Any dealing with an Endless, especially that one, should be undertaken carefully, or better yet, not al all.

    "True, but it's been more accurate than not."

    "Well than! Back you go then. You'd best hurry, dear Hesk would quite set on it."
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    Chances this is going to end poorly for OL...

    "Thank-"

    And I'm in space watching Hesk's ship's gun ports open.

    "-you."
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    ...Evidently quite high.

    Well, I had the feeling They were going to try and keep him occupied for longer. I mean, a man who basically broke his own mind like OL did would be fascinating for Them. Though now I get the feeling They intend to mess with OL for a while, see if They can unbreak him. Such is Their nature. At any rate, I'm sure They will be watching...
    Can't tell whether they're make or female...
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    Can't tell whether they're male or female...
    ... tracing the banister as their complete their journey.
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    ... tracing the banister as they complete their journey.
     
    I for one am intrigued. I like seeing the little check-ins and glimpses we get of Paul being noticed by various beings in ways that are somewhat mysterious, but open the story up to further paths in future. People complain about things coming out of nowhere without these threads now and then.
     
    Mr Zoat said:
    And is then completely forgotten by everyone except their immediate successor.
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    I... don't recall this detail. At least not from what I remember of the original comic series; Lyta Hall remembers that the 'new' Dream is/was her son Daniel. Matthew the Raven dithers about leaving since Morpheus was gone but figures to at least stick around a bit to advise Daniel since the latter is 'new' to the job. And Despair is known to be the second iteration of herself would indicate that Endless deaths are remembered to some degree or another, even if just among their siblings.
     
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