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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Reader mode
Mr Zoat said:
Have I forgotten something again?
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He might be confusing the versions of the Joker between the Paragon and Renegade timelines. Paragon!Joker is simply locked up in Arkham Asylum and presumably hasn't broken out since he was apprehended as a member of the Injustice League. Renegade!Joker has been rendered a non-threat after the Renegade mangled his limbs beyond conventional Earth medicine's ability to heal. The closest he got back to being relevant was when someone had the idiotic idea to give him robotic limb replacements. Thankfully, the Renegade hired Lex's lawyer to put that idea to the grave before it could get anywhere.
 
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Mr Zoat said:
31st December 2012
15:24 GMT -5

Former General Eiling looks down at Acting President Adams as the wizards finish their final checks.

"How the Hell did we end up with you in charge?"
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Well, desperate times make for desperate measures, soldier. Admittedly, some aspects of his ascension to this temporary position aren't exactly entirely by-the-book, but anyone who could object isn't really in a position to do so. Once this whole situation is settled, then the lawyers can argue the point.

Adams' expression is stern, verging contemptuous. I haven't seen him in officer mode before. Even with him being retroactively cleared of wrongdoing, his duties don't actually come with any… Ah, airmen under him in his chain of command. But now he's theoretically in charge of everyone.

"Do we know each other, convict?"
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To be fair, most people are used to seeing him flying about in his shiny, er... :confused: Well, I assume most people think of it as a really tight body-stocking with a codpiece-thing...

"You want name, rank and serial n-?"

"Eiling." Though, credit to Adams, his face barely twitches. "How the Hell are you still alive?"
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Ooof. I get the feeling he is really restraining himself from turning silver and burning Eiling into ash. Admittedly, it'd be well-deserved, but they kind of need the muscle right now.

"Same way you are. I volunteered for important government work."

"What government work?"
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The kind that doesn't get you medals, I suspect. Not on the books, anyway.

"Something called the Danner Formula. Gives people super strength, but only works in fetuses. They wanted to find a way to make it work on adults." He flexes his arms and chest. "Amazing what a few stem cell injections can do."

Hm. Yes, using foetal stem cells and then injecting them… Could work, if you killed the host's immune system first and they engrafted properly. It would be more likely to give the test subject super-cancer, but I suppose that explains the mutations. Not something I'd want to experiment with…
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...So, not implanted in a super-tough android body, then. Still tough as nails and ugly as sin, I expect.

"So you got a stay of execution."

"So I get to keep working for my country."
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Which is all the stranger because Eiling is still a patriot under all the dickishness. Just a little fuzzy on acceptable operational standards.

"Your country? You were murdering US servicemen and selling weapons to the Viet Cong in the Vietnam War for personal profit, then you tried getting all your co-conspirators killed so you could get away free."

"Personal profit? Heh." Eiling looks down contemptuously. "If it was personal profit I'd have quit the army right after Vietnam and bought a place in Aruba. I wouldn't have bothered sticking around."
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Don't tell us, let us guess: Just Following Orders?

"What was it, then?"

"Since you're the 'President' I guess you're clear to know. CIA knew that the Vietnam War was a lost cause. Not enough public support and not enough balls in the White House to fully commit to winning. So they figured, why not sell the Communist weapons, then use that money to fund winnable fights in South America? Have the Communists pay to kill other Communists?" He snorts. "Don't know how successful it was, but that was what I was trying to do."
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I'm sure the cold bastard that thought of it is still laughing in his grave.

"And the people you murdered?"

"Shame. But that was the only way to make it happen."
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'Acceptable Losses', huh? An easy cover for guys like you...

"That's inhuman."

"Oh yeah? You were a pilot. Remind me, how many Cambodian villages did you drop Willy Pete on? You wanna call me a monster because I took orders from a CIA station chief instead of Henry Kissinger?" He leans a little closer. "Grow up, Mister President."
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Sure, no nation can go unblemished for long, but at least pretend you have some standards...

"Get out of my sight."

Eiling.. salutes, and while I'm sure that he means it sarcastically it's as near to textbook as his current physiology allows. Then he steps away and marches towards the cargo lift we're using to take the men to their quarters.
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Because even as misshapen as he no doubt is, he's still a military man. In the comics, first thing he did once he was in Shaggy Man's body? Shave. "'The Shaggy Man'? Me, I never had a day unshaven since my daddy handed me my first razor."

Not sure whether he was lying or not. Kissinger's plan was to lie on official documents by rerouting pilots while they were in the air, and leaving the official target as one in Vietnam. While at this point everyone who knows anything about the era knows that it happened, matching any one pilot to any one bombing run would probably be impossible. Adams wouldn't have known exactly where they were sending him… But again, the fact that the US was moving people to villages they build in 'safe' zones and then bombing anything in the areas they'd cleared, civilian or military, isn't exactly a secret either. I've never bothered to find out exactly what Adams spent the war doing, but if Eiling's telling the truth then he's not wrong about the morality of the situation.
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:oops: And let's leave it at that, even if it's outside the bounds of Rule 8. Dirty dealings happened on all sides.

I walk past with a nod, taking my place at the front of the lift.

"Thank you for your cooperation so far. We will now be taking you to your home for the foreseeable future. You will be freely able to leave your own rooms, but the majority of the Tower will be inaccessible unless you're accompanied by an authorised member of staff."
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Thought so. Hopefully they'll be warned first if they try to sneak out. Don't want to waste the bodies, after all.

The lift begins to descend.

"While we're not actually going to stop you harming yourselves or others, that will activate your penalty clause outside of a refereed spar or official training session. Doctor Quinzel will still be around to discuss any personal issues you may be having. If you have any strategic or organisation questions, please address them to me or to any member of the Justice League."
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...Honestly Amazed he hasn't given Harley some kind of buff, but that sort of thing might lead to her getting overconfident. Though I'm sure she'd fill out a red-and-black bodysuit real nice. ;)

"Yeah." Mr. Bailey nods from near the back. Which means that he's low on the prison totem pole. "When's chow time?"

"The Tower produces food by magic, so… Whenever you're hungry, basically. Unless you try eating a whole elephant then it's not really much of a drain on resources."
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...And who was Mr Bailey, again? Closest I could find was a Ten of Spades from the Royal Flush Gang... :rolleyes: Guess he's that irrelevant, it doesn't matter.

"Anything?"

"We don't have a circus, so you'll have to make do with really good bread."
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I mean, some people enjoy a good bit of bread. I do hope they at least get some toppings.

"Oh, that's good." Mr. Nygma seems amused by my witticism. "But I'm puzzled as to why it is that you said that you can't see Sportsmaster. I don't think he kept any of his weapons."

Mr. Bailey might be relatively low status, but it's clear from the reactions of the others that Mr. Nygma is an Omega-level outcast. I'd sympathise if he had a slightly lower body count.
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Ah, not yet anywhere near a Heel-Face Turn, eh? He did make for a hell of a detective once, after all.

"I once told him that if I saw him again I'd kill him. I didn't take this situation into account." I shrug. "I like to think that I'm a man of my word, and I don't mind the extra effort."

"What did he do to make you say that?"
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Do you want the list in chronological order, alphabetical, or importance?

"Oh, I'm his nemesis."

That actually gets a response, as Mr. Crock… Well, the Crock-shaped blur, appears to cross his arms. "Like Hell you are."
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Oh, not in the comic-book sense, Larry. In the classical sense. The enemy you make by your own actions...

"No, no, seriously. Classically, a nemesis is a countervailing force that comes into being in response to the actions of the primary actor. Your harshness and criminality have alienated everyone in your life, while my heroism is why I'm dating your eldest daughter, and have a better relationship than you with your younger daughter, ex-wife, mother, father, brother, nephews and ex-mother-in-law." I smile insolently. "It's a matter of contrast; by existing I repudiate your entire personal philosophy."
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...And OL explained it even better than I could. :D

Mr. Nygma smiles, either not noticing or not caring about how Mr. Crock's hands clench into fists.

"Imagine that."
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Careful there, Eddy, you could drown someone with all that sarcasm.

"My nemesis on the other hand is some Reach functionary I don't even know the name of who owes me for his current promotion. He already managed to kill me once."

Mr. Crock's face doesn't move much, but there's a little something in his eye.
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Heh, just casually throwing it out that, no, Larry couldn't keep him dead even if he managed to take him down...

"That so?"

"Qwa-matter is nasty stuff."
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Not that Sportsmaster could ever get his hands on any. The Weaponers would probably laugh at him if he somehow managed to contact them. Then kill him for asking. :sneaky:

"So to be someone's nemesis, just fighting them isn't enough. You have to create a role for them."

"Going by the classical definition, yes."
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Essentially, you want to be a big middle finger at their entire life.

"So the Riddler isn't Batman's nemesis, because he didn't have anything to do with getting him started."

"Now wait just a-."
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No, no, Eddy. He has a point. I know your ego doesn't like to hear it, but you are just not that big a deal.

"No, that's the Joker. It was Batman's fight with him when he went out as Red Hood that resulted in him getting a bath in putrefied Smilex. Batman tries to bring stability to Gotham, the Joker attacks stability just because he can."

"So who is Riddler's nemesis?"
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Now, now, not everyone needs a nemesis. Indeed, to some degree, you don't want one.

"I'm honestly not sure that he has one."

"Hear that, Eddy?" The lift reaches our stop and Mr. Crock strides off into the prisoner residential area. "Aren't you lucky."
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What's the bet if the Riddler ever gets loose, he'll go out and do something monumentally stupid to prove he's worthy of being Batman's nemesis?

OL's really enjoying this part of things, isn't he? Getting to lecture at a captive audience about all manner of things. No doubt many of them will be sick of him by the time they're set free. Though I get the feeling some of them will go out and cause trouble that gets them sent right back to prison quickly enough. They just won't be able to help themselves...
 
Ngamer11 said:
He might be confusing the versions of the Joker between the Paragon and Renegade timelines. Paragon!Joker is simply locked up in Arkham Asylum and presumably hasn't broken out since he was apprehended as a member of the Injustice League. Renegade!Joker has been rendered a non-threat after the Renegade mangled his limbs beyond conventional Earth medicine's ability to heal. The closest he got back to being relevant was when someone had the idiotic idea to give him robotic limb replacements. Thankfully, the Renegade hired Lex's lawyer to put that idea to the grave before it could get anywhere.
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Ah, you're right - that was the Renegade I was thinking of.
 
I wonder if it would be a decent use of Paul's time to forge a few slapdash Orange rings for the upcoming assault. Apokalyptians always have ways of obstructing lanterns, so why not bring some extra charge? They don't really need all of the standard AI features so long as he maintains charge on his primary ring. And this way he isn't stealing Corps rings that could go to more efficient causes.
 
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Sportsmaster is gonna find a way to acquire Qwa-matter now?
 
Actually thinking about it, what is the Riddler's origin story? Just became an elaborate Gotham 'mastermind' because he wanted to, or bad OCD and chasing fame? I honestly don't know.
 
Dur'id the Druid said:
Actually thinking about it, what is the Riddler's origin story? Just became an elaborate Gotham 'mastermind' because he wanted to, or bad OCD and chasing fame? I honestly don't know.
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Smart kid, father insisted he must have cheated and beat him, led to the desire to prove how smart he is compared to others.
 
Does that mean Riddler's nemesis would be someone who's purposely dumb, like those who insist shark skin is smooth because of how it makes people frustrated? Of course, a nemesis has to be caused by Riddler's actions (does this make Jason Todd Two-Face's nemesis? It definitely makes Geoforce Bedlam's)

Ahaha, Crock being taken down in front of everyone. Well if his rep wasn't already hurt...
 
I guess they don't know quite how long it's going to take to be called into action, but I'd been envisioning it being a rather more rapid timeline than all this talk of rooms and meals implies. Theoretically the hunt for Bruno could take a long time, but in practice the Justified are on the move doing stuff to move plans forward, and some sort of intervention seems likely sooner rather than later. Well I suppose Task Force X had to be stashed somewhere, even if it ends up being only an hour or two.

Though in that context, Nygma should really be going up to Ops to brainstorm with Batman and study incoming information. His whole value is superior analytical ability and ability to see patterns and make deductions and that sort of thing. You know, solving riddles.
 
Mr Zoat said:
"What did he do to make you say that?"

"Oh, I'm his nemesis."

That actually gets a response, as Mr. Crock… Well, the Crock-shaped blur, appears to cross his arms. "Like Hell you are."

"No, no, seriously. Classically, a nemesis is a countervailing force that comes into being in response to the actions of the primary actor. Your harshness and criminality have alienated everyone in your life, while my heroism is why I'm dating your eldest daughter, and have a better relationship than you with your younger daughter, ex-wife, mother, father, brother, nephews and ex-mother-in-law." I smile insolently. "It's a matter of contrast; by existing I repudiate your entire personal philosophy."

Mr. Nygma smiles, either not noticing or not caring about how Mr. Crock's hands clench into fists.

"Imagine that."

"My nemesis on the other hand is some Reach functionary I don't even know the name of who owes me for his current promotion. He already managed to kill me once."

Mr. Crock's face doesn't move much, but there's a little something in his eye.

"That so?"

"Qwa-matter is nasty stuff."

"So to be someone's nemesis, just fighting them isn't enough. You have to create a role for them."

"Going by the classical definition, yes."

"So the Riddler isn't Batman's nemesis, because he didn't have anything to do with getting him started."

"Now wait just a-."

"No, that's the Joker. It was Batman's fight with him when he went out as Red Hood that resulted in him getting a bath in putrefied Smilex. Batman tries to bring stability to Gotham, the Joker attacks stability just because he can."

"So who is Riddler's nemesis?"

"I'm honestly not sure that he has one."

"Hear that, Eddy?" The lift reaches our stop and Mr. Crock strides off into the prisoner residential area. "Aren't you lucky."
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Best thing about this talk was that this whole conversation was before a large crowd of Supervillains. I kept half expecting hands being raised to ask Paul further questions on the subject of what makes a "Nemesis", and other tropes that pop up in their life that they never considered or noticed.
 
Mr Zoat said:
"We don't have a circus, so you'll have to make do with really good bread."

"Oh, that's good." Mr. Nygma seems amused by my witticism.
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Ah, I get it.
It's because the classical superhero costumes are based off of circus outfits.
He's thinking to himself that the Justice League is the circus.
 
Windona said:
Panel et circus. Bread and circuses
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No I understand that reference,
it's just that I'm not sure a criminal genius would find it amusing,
(The rest of the supervillains apparently didn't)
whereas he'd find an opportunity to silently insult the Justice League and feel as if his intellect was superior to the superhero he's speaking to for seeing something they missed quite amusing.
 
Mr Zoat said:
"Oh yeah? You were a pilot. Remind me, how many Cambodian villages did you drop Willy Pete on? You wanna call me a monster because I took orders from a CIA station chief instead of Henry Kissinger?" He leans a little closer. "Grow up, Mister President."
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I'm fairly confident - 80% - that Nate was an intelligence specialist/operative, not a pilot. I reread the Bates-Weisman run from the late 80s earlier this year, and the only thing they mention about Nate's service specifically was that he was on the ground and was in intelligence. I don't remember if that was changed for the Young Justice comics' adaptation of that story, but given that Weisman wrote it, I don't think it would be. It's a minor change, but I think it's something Eiling would be aware of.

That's how Eiling was able to pin the blame on Hill 409 on Nate - he was actually there, on the ground. He may have been trained as a pilot, but I'm pretty sure he wasn't a bomber, at least.
 
HeroineRule34Guy said:
I'm fairly confident - 80% - that Nate was an intelligence specialist/operative, not a pilot. I reread the Bates-Weisman run from the late 80s earlier this year, and the only thing they mention about Nate's service specifically was that he was on the ground and was in intelligence. I don't remember if that was changed for the Young Justice comics' adaptation of that story, but given that Weisman wrote it, I don't think it would be. It's a minor change, but I think it's something Eiling would be aware of.

That's how Eiling was able to pin the blame on Hill 409 on Nate - he was actually there, on the ground. He may have been trained as a pilot, but I'm pretty sure he wasn't a bomber, at least.
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I haven't read that, so let's assume that he was on at least a few flights.
 
DAT_NOOB said:
Sportsmaster is gonna find a way to acquire Qwa-matter now?
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Why? If OL is telling the truth, Qwa is something that he can got better from.
The current tally is OL: 1, Qwa Matter: 0

Dur'id the Druid said:
Actually thinking about it, what is the Riddler's origin story? Just became an elaborate Gotham 'mastermind' because he wanted to, or bad OCD and chasing fame? I honestly don't know.
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In the cheesy 90s(?) Batman Movies, a case could be made for Val Kilmer Batman being his Nemesis.

The Nygma there had mad scientist chops, and worked for Wayne.
Went to Bruce about his invention, and got blown off 'because it might be used for evil.'
Then his direct boss fired him for making a scene and going over his head.
And Nygma, now jobless and spurned, went off the deep end.

The kind of thing this story's OL thinks is just dumb.
When with kind of money Wayne had access to, and with Nygma having produced genuine high tech, the 'paying attention and not having his head up his ass' thing to do would have been to recognize that if you are worried about it being used for evul, that , 'yup, this here is some genuine super science going on' and the thing to do would be to keep the guy on, give him his own secure R&D lab, where he can invent to his hearts content, with a handler and some ethical oversight.

And could have done more than a 5 second evaluation on if the technology (or derived parts of the technology) could be exploited morally and safely. And that if you do want to bury the tech, you are wealthy enough to buy off the inventor with a cushy job and title so he isn't out in the wind doing whatever.
 
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If we're at the Tower of Fate (I think that's where we are right now but I'm not 100% certain?) I hope we see interactions with Construct-Lantern Demon Nabu. His and Paul's banter is, no joke, one of my favorites in the entire story. Maybe cause it's rare we see a Construct-Lantern snark back at him.
 
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