With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Stsword · Mar 7, 2023

moralrelativity said:
I'm thinking this may be one of the forever people; but responsible now.

No, that's Lightray.

Hence the link Zoat provided.

He looks like this

.

FeepingCreature · Mar 7, 2023

Mr Zoat said:
And the clouds parts and I see that being a New God doesn't give you taste.

"It's very… Gold." Ragnar sounds puzzled. "Were they concerned about lasers?"

"Wouldn't that blind them when the sun shines on it?"

"We're not here to criticise their horrible taste in city decoration-."

"Horrible?" I glance at my other side, where a white-suited-. That's Lightray. "As opposed to your grim grey ensemble?"

So let's talk about signaling and countersignaling. Traditionally, while children like rich colors because they are visually stimulating and exciting, adults use them to show off. Because dyes are expensive, wearing heavily dyed clothing visually indicates your wealth to the world; it's a costly signal. However, as more people gain access to dyes, another layer emerges: countersignaling. This is when for instance, while all members of a court are obligated by social competition to wear colorful clothing, the most influential members wear boring, simple clothes; this indicates that their status is obvious; they don't need to show off because everybody already knows their influence. (This usually happens cyclically.) Which is, of course, itself a form of signaling among the very highest echelons- signaling through not signaling; in other words, countersignaling. Now, when we talk about "taste", this is better read as "the current state of signaling among the ingroup"; Paul sees himself as a high-class individual, and it happens to be that in his environment, colors are currently lower status, which is why he countersignals by wearing simple, functional apparel.

(It is important to understand that none of this is said or thought out loud; signaling and countersignaling feels like having taste.)

Anyways, my impression from staring at that picture of New Genesis is that this is a people who have been on top of their status competitions for such a long time, and have so much individual power, that they're not doing any of that. Their city is richly colored not for the reason why adults wore rich colors but for the same reason that children like colors - because they're visually stimulating and exciting. Which of course, is the greatest signaling flex of all.

Mr Zoat · Mar 7, 2023

Chojin Patriarch said:
You and your colleagues may approach New Genesis.
He leads the way towards a…

Thank you, corrected.

B.B. Rain said:
...are we about to find out that this is one of the continuities where all versions of a New God are actually the same person, aware of all the universes they manifest in, and the locals recognize Renegade Grayven's soul in Illustres Paul?

No.

Duke Long said:
'of what'?
Extraneous 'have'

Thank you, corrected.

B.B. Rain · Mar 7, 2023

Mr Zoat said:
No.

Glad to hear it.

thebishop8 · Mar 7, 2023

If the multiverse New God thing were true, I think we would have seen it by this point from the Renegade universe at least.

Rafin · Mar 7, 2023

Really. Grayven is an ancap? With all that he's seen in the galaxy, including wild differences in both inherent power and inherent ability to be productive? How would he even embrace Conquest in ancapistan, except if he is actually unironically hoping for an interplanetary megacorp dystopia?

P.S.: I am not in any way discussing the pros or cons or anarchocapitalism irl. I am specifically only questioning why Grayven would favor it in the world he lives in. Don't ban me mods.

Chojin Patriarch said:
Give you one guess what he's New God of.

What is it? The wiki doesn't say.

néocorvinus said:
New Gods are multiversal beings, one being with avatars in every universes. They have probaly met the Pauls from DCAU, DCAMU, etc... they are most likely used to him, especially from verses where Darkseid is more active

How does that work given that we know that at least in -16 Darkseid is the good guy and Izaya is the baddie? Are there exactly two versions of each of them?

Also, the power of Darkseid seems to vary between comic and cartoon continuities, no?

Duke Long · Mar 7, 2023

Rafin said:
Really. Grayven is an ancap? With all that he's seen in the galaxy, including wild differences in both inherent power and inherent ability to be productive? How would he even embrace Conquest in ancapistan, except if he is actually unironically hoping for an interplanetary megacorp dystopia?

P.S.: I am not in any way discussing the pros or cons or anarchocapitalism irl. I am specifically only questioning why Grayven would favor it in the world he lives in. Don't ban me mods.

I'm pretty sure he is specifically advocating for anarcho-capitalism for Equestria because he thinks it would work there due to the peculiarities of the inhabitants, and he doesn't think that it would be the best system for other places.
Also, presumably he could embrace Conquest by setting up the system in a place, and then moving on to another place. There are infinite places for him to conquer, after all.

Mr Zoat · Mar 7, 2023

Rafin said:
Really. Grayven is an ancap? With all that he's seen in the galaxy, including wild differences in both inherent power and inherent ability to be productive? How would he even embrace Conquest in ancapistan, except if he is actually unironically hoping for an interplanetary megacorp dystopia?

You're a human, aren't you?

Ponies aren't humans. They have very different instincts, including being a lot more socially conservative and obedient to authority. Grayven thinks it would be good if ponies stopped looking to the princesses for instruction and got used to standing on their own four hooves.

Khornelius · Mar 7, 2023

I wonder if this is another example of Paul being assumed to be a reincarnation of Lucifer Morningstar? That or he's being mistaken for Graven in the other timeline, who is a self-made New God.

I think New Gods exist on a mutiversal level but I'm not sure if that is Fanon or Canon. It might just be Darkseid and Izaya.

So Paul and Graven being assumed to be the same person using two different avatars would make a degree of sense.

Darko · Mar 7, 2023

Mr Zoat said:
you thatI have sent

"that"

Mr Zoat said:
Thinking about the primitives… Oh, I just spotted… They've still got New God physiology, haven't they? So it's not as if they're making life all that difficult for themselves by returning to nature. It's… Like a human going 'off-grid' with a miniature nuclear power plant to fuel all the mod-cons made by their personal matter transmuter. Or like reaching the top of Everest in a plane. Or dynamite fishing rather than grabbing the fish with your bare hands. Living without technology is impressive when a normal human does it, but with New Gods

They could ve using druid-like magic to live.

The Accala may essentially be turning into the Earth equivalent of them.

Mr Zoat said:
"They've removed all marks of industrial civilisation from their homeworld. Did they want a place to hunt?"

"No. Though I don't know enough of their history to know how they ended up like this

Maybe their wars with Apokalips caused them to have a smaller population, so they put themselves into one city because they didn't need to expand.

Mr Zoat said:
And the clouds parts and I see that being a New God doesn't give you taste.

Hey, it's very beautiful.

Mr Zoat said:
It's very… Gold.

It could be because they either like the color, or because it could have some mystical properties.

Mr Zoat said:
Wouldn't that blind them when the sun shines on it?"

Unless it somehow doesn't shine all that bright.

Mr Zoat said:
Your mental dysfunctions are yours to deal with."

Ha!

Sadly he's not dealing with them all that much.

Mr Zoat said:
When it's you? Hah, it's always a bad time!"

True, true.

Mr Zoat said:
I turn my head to make eye contact as he smirks.

"Have we met before?"

He blinks, frowning, before breaking into a grin.

"Hah

Weird.

So either these versions have some level of the whole multiversal existence thing, or Lightray has heard about Earth and all of its various shenanigans, and how Paul is connected to a lot of them.

Darko · Mar 7, 2023

Chojin Patriarch said:
I suspect they'd regard Allyn with mild curiosity as an extant example of the Old Gods

True, but they may be more interested in potentially guiding them, so ce they may not want Apokalips getting their hands on new and powerful subjects.

Chojin Patriarch said:
Remarkably trusting... But He can probably scan their souls with relative ease given their lack of metaphysical defences (outside of spell eaters and OL's wards, neither of which are great against New God techniques...)

And Highfather may just ask them to shit down and they'll comply.

Chojin Patriarch said:
Yeah, quite an experience. Her race doesn't have any active local deities, do they?

Even if they do she may have simply not met them.

Chojin Patriarch said:
No doubt He has a list of titles as logn as OL's arm, but most are likely the sort that only gets dragged out for super-special occasions like dick-waving contests with Darkseid

Heck, he may only have the one, or really two, titles.

And that may honestly be a bigger example of dick-waing, since he doesn't need a bunch of fancy titles to show how great he is.

Chojin Patriarch said:
More specifically, Him telling Reality to 'sit down a sec, hush up and let me work'.

I think he'd be more polite about it.

Chojin Patriarch said:
To be fair, His powers are somewhat nebulous, outside of 'speaker for the Source' and the usual New God buffs.

True, we never really see him in action.

He can shoot every from his staff, and make things grow though.

Chojin Patriarch said:
Once you hit a certain level of magitech, 'Civilisation' is just hanging out with other people.

I remember reading a story where an intergalactic empire stopped existi g not because of war or turmoil, but because it simply didn't become necessary to have a government or even a civilization after they discovered a way to transfer their society into immortal, self-sustaining, borderline indestructible bodies.

Chojin Patriarch said:
Not unless they hunt the Forager-folk...

Now I'm getting the idea that the Bugs could have once been animals that the New Gods hunted, and after a while they were modified to become more intelligent and thus make a better challenge, but eventually developed sapience.

Chojin Patriarch said:
Ah, Kirbytech at its finest. Seriously, look up his artstyle and picture that.

Chojin Patriarch said:
Yeah, New Genesis is artisanal and individualistic... Apokalips is more about brutalist style and functionalism.

The individualistic design could point to a preference in taste, but it could also mean that the various ways in which the ships are designed is so that the New God piloting them has the most efficient way to use their powers.

Chojin Patriarch said:
Give you one guess what he's New God of.

Light.

Though I did once read somewhere that he was a god of joy

The whole "ray of sunshine" thing we assign to joyful people and all that explains his light powers.

Chojin Patriarch said:
Are you calling OL crazy? I mean, it's true, but...

No, no "buts".

Paul is crazy and he's right to call him that

Chojin Patriarch said:
Given that half the place looks like parklands, I doubt any one is better than another.

Highfather does seem like the type that likes parks.

Chojin Patriarch said:
And I don't see Ragnar being patient enough to tolerate it before someone gets challenged to a duel...

And I'm thinking that's how we'll meet Orion.

Vaermina · Mar 7, 2023

Stsword said:
I don't know why anyone would think Black Lanterns normally have souls when Deadman was floating around while his body was a black lantern.

Deadman was floating around from the very beginning of the first issue until the end of the last issue. Making it quite obvious that no, black lanterns don't have souls. That's basic "Did you even read the event?" level stuff.

Deadman coming back to life to be the first white lantern was the climatic ending.

Of course, you should know this, since I've already pointed this out to you.

When Robotman was confronted by his brainless body in Doom Patrol? Since Robotman was alive, which means his soul was rather preoccupied, again, making it obvious that no, black lanterns don't normally have souls.

When Katana, with her souleating sword, stabbed her "husband" only to find out that the lights were on but nobody was home in Outsiders?

When Deathstorm stayed around despite Jason and Ronnie being alive in Brightest Day? So exactly whose soul did you think Deathstorm had?

When the Black Lanterns included both Hawkman and Hawkgirl and their previous incarnations Prince Kufu and Princes Chay-Ara? i doubt they were using a time share deal there.

When Solomon Grundy joined the Black Lantern Corps despite Cyrus Gold's soul being in hell never to return as Solomon Grundy thanks to the Phantom Stranger?

The same issue the black lanterns revived the Orange Lanterns' bodies as black lanterns, they did the same to the planet Xanshi. Xanshi was not a living planet like Mogo, it was a hunk of rock hurtling through space. The black lanterns revived something that was never actually alive in the first place.

Black Lantern Spectre was the exception, not the rule.

Because shortly after that the white light fully revived all the Black Lanterns.

ForeverShogo · Mar 7, 2023

Oh, but if only he knew about G5. Leave ponies to their own devices and they go back to embracing racism. To the point that they lose access to their magic. (And I'm sure a lack of magic would torpedo the "special talents would let ancapistan work, honest" thing.)

They're just lucky that someone got rid of the Wendigos. Or maybe the Wendigos being decisively beaten is what precipitated their downfall.

"Finally! We can go back to being racist without consequence!" Magic goes away. "Oh no!"

Mr Zoat · Mar 7, 2023

Darko said:
"that"

Thank you, corrected.

So either these versions have some level of the whole multiversal existence thing, or Lightray has heard about Earth and all of its various shenanigans, and how Paul is connected to a lot of them.

Ah, no. Lightray spends most of his time with the dour Orion. He isn't used to people responding with self-depreciation.

ForeverShogo said:
Oh, but if only he knew about G5. Leave ponies to their own devices and they go back to embracing racism. To the point that they lose access to their magic. (And I'm sure a lack of magic would torpedo the "special talents would let ancapistan work, honest" thing.)

G5 sharing a setting with G4 makes no sense. Aside from anything else, the tribes are too interbred for a pure population to exist for more than one generation. There's actually a fanfic on FiMfiction where they trade foals of the wrong tribe between settlements.

Stsword · Mar 7, 2023

Vaermina said:
Because shortly after that the white light fully revived all the Black Lanterns.

No, it didn't, it revived some of them.

It was stated categorically that the Dibnys didn't get resurrected.

It certainly didn't resurrect almost every single fallen green lantern ever- The Black Lanterns cleaned out the Crypts of the Green Lanterns. Someone would have noticed the GLC suddenly having hundreds of thousands, if not more, revived members.

So first, I'm not aware of a single Orange Lantern getting resurrected by the White Light Entity. So citation please.

Secondly, I'm not aware of Larfleeze being shown to keep an orange lantern construct when the member was resurrected. So I'm going to need a citation on that too.

Darko said:
Now I'm getting the idea that the Bugs could have once been animals that the New Gods hunted, and after a while they were modified to become more intelligent and thus make a better challenge, but eventually developed sapience.

No, the Bugs are New Genesis bioweapons- designed to breed until they consumed all of Apokalips' resources.

They escaped the breeding labs and colonized New Genesis instead.

The New Gods called them Apokalips bioweapons, but Metron eventually released the truth, either the lie offended his sensibilities or he figured the truth was bound to get out sooner or later, I don't know.

They are apparently failures though- While the Bugs are rapacious enough to steal from Supertown for needed resources, they are apparently not stupid enough to expand themselves into oblivion like a plague.

This may or may not be true on Earth-16 of course

Vaermina · Mar 7, 2023

Stsword said:
No, it didn't, it revived some of them.

It was stated categorically that the Dibnys didn't get resurrected.

It certainly didn't resurrect almost every single fallen green lantern ever- The Black Lanterns cleaned out the Crypts of the Green Lanterns. Someone would have noticed the GLC suddenly having hundreds of thousands, if not more, revived members.

So first, I'm not aware of a single Orange Lantern getting resurrected by the White Light Entity. So citation please.

Secondly, I'm not aware of Larfleeze being shown to keep an orange lantern construct when the member was resurrected. So I'm going to need a citation on that too.

The whole point of that was reviving all the black lanterns to sever Nekron's connection to the universe...

Also, you seem to forget that the GLC had limited numbers of rings.

Stsword · Mar 8, 2023

Vaermina said:
The whole point of that was reviving all the black lanterns to sever Nekron's connection to the universe...

No, it really really wasn't.

The mass resurrection happened after Nekron was banished. So that's a no.

What happened before Nekron was banished was the White Light Entity resurrected William Hand, costing Nekron his herald, the one required for this entire plan as stated again and again and again during the event, and destroying the Black Lantern Central Power Battery. You might remember that Nekron couldn't enter the world of the living until the black lantern charge hit 100%.

Then after Nekron was banished, the white light power rings that William Hand vomited up caused the mass resurrection.

Also the fact that there Black Lanterns who survived Blackest Night really puts a crimp in the believability of your theory that resurrecting all the Black Lanterns was necessary for banishing Nekron.

Brightest Day, the sequel- Deathstorm "survived" in the Firestorm Matrix and planned to wipe out the universe. Nekron also imprinted Swamp Thing, making him a Black Lantern Corps member. So Brightest Day had two "surviving" black lanterns.

Also the Black Lanterns Mogo consumed and trapped in his core in Green Lantern Corps #44 where shown to still be there a year later in Green Lantern Corps #60 in 2011.

So the theory that "resurrecting all the black lanterns is what banished Nekron from the land of the living" has the little issue that all the black lanterns weren't resurrected.

Mr Zoat · Mar 8, 2023

20th January 2013
21:13 GMT

Highfather rises from the floating bench he was sitting on, watching a group of New God children playing with… Uh, some sort of gravity manipulating block toys. While I'm sure that their precise functionality is fascinating, they're not what I'm here for. Instead of scanning them to see what I can learn I just do a general scan for concealed people -none as far as I can tell- and then focus on my host, bowing at the waist.

"Highfather, thank you for agreeing to meet with me."

He comes into convenient talking range, crosier held in his right hand and resting against his right shoulder.

"Rise, Illustres, and be at peace." "I offer you sanctuary."

I straighten, pleased that Ragnar and Lacuray both copied my action. Izaya is smiling politely. Expectantly.

"That doesn't seem very likely, but I'll try while I'm here. These are my colleagues, Lantern Ragnar and Lantern Lacuray."

Highfather makes eye contact with each of them before returning his full attention to me.

"You mentioned that there are things that you need for your plan to work. I am eager to hear what you think there is that can remove the Anti-Life."

"Life, naturally. I've been exposed to Anti-Life fragments before and it didn't do much. That's a product of… My relationship with the orange light. A Green Lantern colleague of mine who has achieved a similar relationship with the green light experienced the same phenomena. It's my belief that by combining multiple emotional colours it should be possible to purge an area of Anti-Life… I mean, maybe not the complete Equation, but a widespread infection like the Earth has."

He raises his eyebrows, nodding slowly as he thinks it over.

"Green Lanterns have proven unusually resilient in the past, though it was a long time ago that the Green Lantern Corps last fought against Apokolips. I know of them and your Corps and of the yellow ring of fear used by Sinestro. What more do you need?"

"There are seven colours that I need. In addition to those three my friend Alan Scott has a blue ring and the Zamarons have started using violet rings. That leaves two: red and indigo. There's a sophont beaver in Sector One Zero One Four with an indigo ring, and probably more where he came from. That leaves red. Two parts to that problem: I need to find the materials that can be used to make one and I need to find someone who can use it."

"What emotion is red tied to?"

"Anger and hate. I've sort of gotten the impression that they're not inherently different things, and…" His eyes narrow slightly and his face takes on a… Regretful.. expression? "And we just experience them differently depending on our mindset. Regardless, I need someone well-acquainted with both but who can still focus through them."

"You're here for Orion!" Lightray sounds surprised. "I know he can be a bit moody, but I'd hardly call him some sort of 'rage mystic'."

"No, but I imagine that he has experience fighting off the Anti-Life due to his fights with the forces of Apokolips. Really, we're just going to need him to fire the ring for a minute or so."

Highfather nods resignedly. "And what becomes of him then?"

"Um, I don't mind? Assuming that the ring isn't owned by someone else, he's welcome to keep it."

"You don't understand. Orion has struggled to control his anger for his entire life. Asking him to manifest it outside of himself as Lanterns do may well undo all of the progress he has made."

"I know. But I don't have anyone better."

Bleez is a popular music star and political reformer. Ratchet is an Orange Lantern. I have no idea where to even begin looking for Dex-Starr, and… Honestly, between the Anti-Life and the Sheeda, he's probably dead. I don't know where Skallox is and I've got only the vaguest idea where Zilius Zox might be.

I need someone angry. Angry now, but in control.

"Because if I did, I'd be there instead."

"How confident are you that this will work?"

"Pfffooooow."

I look up at the sky as I try to work out how to quantify something like that. I mean… Based on what the Anti-Life fragment appears to do…

"Let's say… Eighty percent chance to get rid of it entirely. Ten to just give everyone temporary immunity while the League and its allies destroy the transmitter without having to worry about mind controlled soldiers attacking them. Fifteen to deal with the after-effects while we deal with it some other way, so that we can actually rebuild afterwards. Chance of it flat out doing nothing… Two percent? Maybe? I mean, something should happen, but I can't use New God technology myself for obvious reasons. And… Of course… If it does work, then we can use the same technique on other worlds as well."

"You expect it to expunge the Anti-Life, but your people to be mentally scarred."

"Most likely. But as I said, I can't evidence any of this." I shrug. "Honestly, we might be the ones who cause the trauma. But this is still the best plan I've been able to come up with. Have you got a better one?"

Lightray gives me stink eye. "Have a care, mortal."

"No, serious question. Highfather, you were friends with Prince Drax. Do you know a way to deactivate his robot?"

"It would be a poor weapon if it were easy to deactivate." Highfather shakes his head solemnly. "I have been trying to communicate with Drax since that… Those events. The unity of thought which existed between the Forever People was broken by their exposure to Anti-Life, and without that reaching him is… Difficult, to say the least."

Two ways around that: help them heal or train…

I look over to the children playing with the blocks, and out of the corner of my eye see Highfather bow his head slightly.

Train replacements, because there're some things that can't be fixed.

"Naturally, I have no problem with using our power rings to help them recover, but… I don't think that any one colour would be much use on its own."

He nods. "Thank you. And what else would you do with that power?"

"Not a lot. It would be split between seven different people, who would have to work with each other to make it work. And I strongly suspect that the Yellow Lantern will have loyalties that conflict with mine. I suppose I'd quite like to un-Anti-Life other places, but this is a bit… That's premature."

Lightray nods. "Willing to wage war on Apokolips, human? I respect that. My oration at your funeral will make the crowd weep for your loss."

"Everyone is already at war with Apokolips. Darkseid gets the full Anti-Life Equation, that's the end of intelligent life in this universe. More than that, his agent has attacked my planet. I'm not going to pretend that I have an alternative. And while I appreciate your offer, I've been dead twice. It's not that big a deal. And I don't think I'm a good enough public speaker to return the favour, but I can try if you want."

"Twice? Once could be regarded as misfortune, but twice suggests carelessness."

"It was carelessness, so, that fits."

He throws up his hands and shakes his head as Highfather nods.

"I will speak with Orion. I think that it is best for all of us if he helps you."

Zig · Mar 8, 2023

Mr Zoat said:
"I will speak with Orion. I think that it is best for all of us if he helps you."

So is Rocket around?

Khettien · Mar 8, 2023

Mr Zoat said:
And I don't think I'm a good enough public speaker to return the favour, but I can try if you want.

"This dead asshole is dead because he made poor decisions. We should all make better ones. The end."

Ngamer11 · Mar 8, 2023

Mr Zoat said:
Lightray nods. "Willing to wage war on Apokolips, human? I respect that. My oration at your funeral will make the crowd weep for your loss."

"Everyone is already at war with Apokolops. Darkseid gets the full Anti-Life Equation, that's the end of intelligent life in this universe. More than that, his agent has attacked my planet. I'm not going to pretend that I have an alternative. And while I appreciate your offer, I've been dead twice. It's not that big a deal. And I don't think I'm a good enough public speaker to return the favour, but I can try if you want."

"Twice? Once could be regarded as misfortune, but twice suggests carelessness."

"It was carelessness, so, that fits."

He throws up his hands and shakes his head as Highfather nods.

Is Lightray trying to humble Paul the way a normal god would an arrogant mortal? Because if he is, I'm glad Paul doesn't care enough or is just skilled and smart enough to get him to give up.

RoninSword · Mar 8, 2023

I think I remember OL being a bit confused by Infinity Man when it was first mentioned because he thought that was the name taken by Prince Drax and then he concluded he must have been mistaken (this would have been all the way back when Canis Minor showed up with Dreamer). Did he get a better answer to this or just Mr Zoat forgetting since it was so long ago?

So is Infinity Man actually Prince Drax then? A robot of his?

Edit: A little surprise Paul made no mention of the Earth being the Fifth World or the potential result of the 7 emotional colors combining but I suppose he thought it was unnecessary.

Vaermina · Mar 8, 2023

Mr Zoat said:
Bleez is a popular music star and political reformer. Ratchet is an Orange Lantern. I have no idea where to even begin looking for Dex-Starr, and… Honestly, between the Anti-Life and the Sheeda, he's probably dead. I don't know where Skallox is and I've got only the vaguest idea where Zilius Zox might be.

Or you could go for Razor.

The one Red Lantern to actually master the Red Light of Rage.

Stsword · Mar 8, 2023

Ngamer11 said:
Is Lightray trying to humble Paul the way a normal god would an arrogant mortal? Because if he is, I'm glad Paul doesn't care enough or is just skilled and smart enough to get him to give up.

I'm honestly wondering what's going on there.

Lightray is the god of joy.

Never mind he doesn't have empathic powers but light powers, because New God domains are generally useless drivel.

RoninSword said:
So is Infinity Man actually Prince Drax then? A robot of his?

The suggestion seems to be both.

Drax built a robot and then transferred his mind into it.

In the comics, Drax was badly injured when his little brother stole his chance to claim the omega effect for his own.

So I'm guessing here that Zoat envisioned him saving himself via transhumanism. Transdeitism?

Bud-E · Mar 8, 2023

Ngamer11 said:
Is Lightray trying to humble Paul the way a normal god would an arrogant mortal? Because if he is, I'm glad Paul doesn't care enough or is just skilled and smart enough to get him to give up.

Doubt it Lightray just seems to not think highly of Paul.

Ngamer11 · Mar 8, 2023

Stsword said:
Lightray is the god of joy.

Never mind he doesn't have empathic powers but light powers, because New God domains are generally useless drivel.

It might be a metaphor. Because he can literally lighten up your day. The spreading of joy will have to be done by his actions and words.

Vaermina · Mar 8, 2023

Bud-E said:
Doubt it Lightray just seems to not think highly of Paul.

Which makes him one of the smartest people we have met so far.

Cuchulin · Mar 8, 2023

Ngamer11 said:
Is Lightray trying to humble Paul the way a normal god would an arrogant mortal? Because if he is, I'm glad Paul doesn't care enough or is just skilled and smart enough to get him to give up.

If he is it's not going to work, Paul isn't arrogant. He is simply very confident and enlightened.

Chojin Patriarch · Mar 8, 2023

Mr Zoat said:
20th January 2013
21:13 GMT

Highfather rises from the floating bench he was sitting on, watching a group of New God children playing with… Uh, some sort of gravity manipulating block toys. While I'm sure that their precise functionality is fascinating, they're not what I'm here for. Instead of scanning them to see what I can learn I just do a general scan for concealed people -none as far as I can tell- and then focus on my host, bowing at the waist.

Heh. Baby Boxes?

I kid, I kid. Still, it's an interestingly casual look at the level of New Genesis' technology. Even the simplest child's toys have mechanisms that Earth is only just beginning to develop.

"Highfather, thank you for agreeing to meet with me."

He comes into convenient talking range, crosier held in his right hand and resting against his right shoulder.

He can't help but lean into the image of benevolent shepherd, can't He? I suppose it comes being being an avatar of Benevolent Leadership.

"Rise, Illustres, and be at peace." "I offer you sanctuary."

I straighten, pleased that Ragnar and Lacuray both copied my action. Izaya is smiling politely. Expectantly.

Before a presence like His, you can't help but be polite.

"That doesn't seem very likely, but I'll try while I'm here. These are my colleagues, Lantern Ragnar and Lantern Lacuray."

Highfather makes eye contact with each of them before returning his full attention to me.

Taking their measure in a mere glance, eh? Easy to figure them out, though.

"You mentioned that there are things that you need for your plan to work. I am eager to hear what you think there is that can remove the Anti-Life."

"Life, naturally. I've been exposed to Anti-Life fragments before and it didn't do much. That's a product of… My relationship with the orange light. A Green Lantern colleague of mine who has achieved a similar relationship with the green light experienced the same phenomena. It's my belief that by combining multiple emotional colours it should be possible to purge an area of Anti-Life… I mean, maybe not the complete Equation, but a widespread infection like the Earth has."

Admittedly, it's still up in the air if it's possible, but anything's worth a try. Desperate times, desperate measures and all that.

He raises his eyebrows, nodding slowly as he thinks it over.

"Green Lanterns have proven unusually resilient in the past, though it was a long time ago that the Green Lantern Corps last fought against Apokolips. I know of them and your Corps and of the yellow ring of fear used by Sinestro. What more do you need?"

Admittedly, once Apokalips adapted, they more or less kicked the Greenies' arses to a standstill.

"There are seven colours that I need. In addition to those three my friend Alan Scott has a blue ring and the Zamarons have started using violet rings. That leaves two: red and indigo. There's a sophont beaver in Sector One Zero One Four with an indigo ring, and probably more where he came from. That leaves red. Two parts to that problem: I need to find the materials that can be used to make one and I need to find someone who can use it."

Of course, tracking down an Indigo Tribesman is still going to be a challenge.

"What emotion is red tied to?"

"Anger and hate. I've sort of gotten the impression that they're not inherently different things, and…" His eyes narrow slightly and his face takes on a… Regretful.. expression? "And we just experience them differently depending on our mindset. Regardless, I need someone well-acquainted with both but who can still focus through them."

Ah, Highfather can already guess what OL is asking, can't He? Or perhaps He knew the whole time, what with that insight.

"You're here for Orion!" Lightray sounds surprised. "I know he can be a bit moody, but I'd hardly call him some sort of 'rage mystic'."

"No, but I imagine that he has experience fighting off the Anti-Life due to his fights with the forces of Apokolips. Really, we're just going to need him to fire the ring for a minute or so."

I mean, get him pissed off enough and he can manage that. Heck, just have his motherbox lay off the calming influence a few minutes, and you'll have all you need.

Highfather nods resignedly. "And what becomes of him then?"

"Um, I don't mind? Assuming that the ring isn't owned by someone else, he's welcome to keep it."

Though, do you really want a Red Ring out in the wild? Even if it doesn't replace the wearer's heart with a ball of Rage, anyone driven by it could be trouble later.

"You don't understand. Orion has struggled to control his anger for his entire life. Asking him to manifest it outside of himself as Lanterns do may well undo all of the progress he has made."

"I know. But I don't have anyone better."

Especially since any of the known Red Lanterns of any continuity haven't become Red Lanterns yet. Or are likely to.

Bleez is a popular music star and political reformer. Ratchet is an Orange Lantern. I have no idea where to even begin looking for Dex-Starr, and… Honestly, between the Anti-Life and the Sheeda, he's probably dead. I don't know where Skallox is and I've got only the vaguest idea where Zilius Zox might be.

I need someone angry. Angry now, but in control.

...Dang, Dex-starr might be dead (assuming her master isn't already...) Dangit, every Lantern Corps needs its cute animal member...

"Because if I did, I'd be there instead."

"How confident are you that this will work?"

Good question. It's all supposition on OL's part. For all anyone knows, this will simply hasten the War of Light's beginning, and nothing more.

"Pfffooooow."

I look up at the sky as I try to work out how to quantify something like that. I mean… Based on what the Anti-Life fragment appears to do…

Sheesh, you haven't even done the math yet? Taking a lot on faith, aren't you?

"Let's say… Eighty percent chance to get rid of it entirely. Ten to just give everyone temporary immunity while the League and its allies destroy the transmitter without having to worry about mind controlled soldiers attacking them. Fifteen to deal with the after-effects while we deal with it some other way, so that we can actually rebuild afterwards. Chance of it flat out doing nothing… Two percent? Maybe? I mean, something should happen, but I can't use New God technology myself for obvious reasons. And… Of course… If it does work, then we can use the same technique on other worlds as well."

Please, let's not give New Genesis any funky ideas. Remember the stupid, stupid Godhead arc from the ~~New 52~~?

"You expect it to expunge the Anti-Life, but your people to be mentally scarred."

"Most likely. But as I said, I can't evidence any of this." I shrug. "Honestly, we might be the ones who cause the trauma. But this is still the best plan I've been able to come up with. Have you got a better one?"

Still, humans are robust. Emotionally speaking, anyway. That might help them to recover a little sanity. Even if the essence of Status Quo has no power here.

Lightray gives me stink eye. "Have a care, mortal."

"No, serious question. Highfather, you were friends with Prince Drax. Do you know a way to deactivate his robot?"

Oh, right. There's at least one Infinity Man knockoff running around on Earth...

"It would be a poor weapon if it were easy to deactivate." Highfather shakes his head solemnly. "I have been trying to communicate with Drax since that… Those events. The unity of thought which existed between the Forever People was broken by their exposure to Anti-Life, and without that reaching him is… Difficult, to say the least."

Two ways around that: help them heal or train…

That's gonna take some superheroic therapy. Too bad there's no-one out there with the power of Mental Health Care.

I look over to the children playing with the blocks, and out of the corner of my eye see Highfather bow his head slightly.

Train replacements, because there're some things that can't be fixed.

Sadly, I don't think they're going to be much use anytime soon. Any other options, Highfather?

"Naturally, I have no problem with using our power rings to help them recover, but… I don't think that any one colour would be much use on its own."

He nods. "Thank you. And what else would you do with that power?"

No doubt they can be the first test of the combined effect? Or were you just planning to gather seven rings and just... Shine them on Earth, OL?

"Not a lot. It would be split between seven different people, who would have to work with each other to make it work. And I strongly suspect that the Yellow Lantern will have loyalties that conflict with mine. I suppose I'd quite like to un-Anti-Life other places, but this is a bit… That's premature."

Lightray nods. "Willing to wage war on Apokolips, human? I respect that. My oration at your funeral will make the crowd weep for your loss."

...Oh, you have no idea about divided loyalties, OL...

"Everyone is already at war with Apokolops. Darkseid gets the full Anti-Life Equation, that's the end of intelligent life in this universe. More than that, his agent has attacked my planet. I'm not going to pretend that I have an alternative. And while I appreciate your offer, I've been dead twice. It's not that big a deal. And I don't think I'm a good enough public speaker to return the favour, but I can try if you want."

"Twice? Once could be regarded as misfortune, but twice suggests carelessness."

It's like he's dying on purpose, you know.

"It was carelessness, so, that fits."

He throws up his hands and shakes his head as Highfather nods.

"I will speak with Orion. I think that it is best for all of us if he helps you."

Well, that's progress.

So, one more element acquired for this mad, desperate plan. But there's still the matter of a Ring to channel the War Hound's Rage. And tracking down the Indigo Tribe. And you have to wait for Lysis to toss you a Yellow Ring... And let's not forget getting the Zamarons on your side. They still don't like you much, after all. That'll be a tough one.

Signaller · Mar 8, 2023

Would red enlightenment help Orion?

With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

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