• The site has now migrated to Xenforo 2. If you see any issues with the forum operation, please post them in the feedback thread.
  • Due to issues with external spam filters, QQ is currently unable to send any mail to Microsoft E-mail addresses. This includes any account at live.com, hotmail.com or msn.com. Signing up to the forum with one of these addresses will result in your verification E-mail never arriving. For best results, please use a different E-mail provider for your QQ address.
  • For prospective new members, a word of warning: don't use common names like Dennis, Simon, or Kenny if you decide to create an account. Spammers have used them all before you and gotten those names flagged in the anti-spam databases. Your account registration will be rejected because of it.
  • Since it has happened MULTIPLE times now, I want to be very clear about this. You do not get to abandon an account and create a new one. You do not get to pass an account to someone else and create a new one. If you do so anyway, you will be banned for creating sockpuppets.
  • Due to the actions of particularly persistent spammers and trolls, we will be banning disposable email addresses from today onward.
  • The rules regarding NSFW links have been updated. See here for details.

XF2 upgrade

MissileTeatime said:
Is there like. A centralized thread for status updates on this, or something? This has been "in the pipeline" since before COVID shutdown, as I recall. If it's just been quietly abandoned, that would also be nice to know, for example.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

LurkingInTheDeceit said:
Here.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I get what you're saying, but in practice it's clearly not. Of the two status updates in this thread, one of them was cross-posted be a user and one was in direct response to that user's complaints as shared with the cross-post.
 
(Also crossposting)
MissileTeatime said:
I get what you're saying, but in practice it's clearly not. Of the two status updates in this thread, one of them was cross-posted be a user and one was in direct response to that user's complaints as shared with the cross-post.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I mean, I agree, but we don't really have anything better. It's at least on-topic to centralise requests for updates here, even if in practice it might not be answered, nor has that information been shown to be particularly reliable when answers do manifest.
 
Last edited:
MissileTeatime said:
I get what you're saying, but in practice it's clearly not. Of the two status updates in this thread, one of them was cross-posted be a user and one was in direct response to that user's complaints as shared with the cross-post.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
There's not been too much of an update in the past few weeks, Xon got a chance to do a chunk of prep work at the start of the month but his schedule has been packed otherwise. And unfortunately, we're basically beholden to his schedule.

Wish I had better news, but I don't. :(
 
ultima333 said:
There's not been too much of an update in the past few weeks, Xon got a chance to do a chunk of prep work at the start of the month but his schedule has been packed otherwise. And unfortunately, we're basically beholden to his schedule.

Wish I had better news, but I don't. :(
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
See, this kind of "work is proceeding in the background, at Xon Time" is the kind of thing I count as a status update.

The other thing I would want to know is how many more such sessions it will take. Obviously any number you give could be wrong, or worse, misconstrued; but I'm picturing answers being like either "well, probably two or three more chunks" or "could be three chunks, could be thirty; we just don't know".
 
MissileTeatime said:
See, this kind of "work is proceeding in the background, at Xon Time" is the kind of thing I count as a status update.

The other thing I would want to know is how many more such sessions it will take. Obviously any number you give could be wrong, or worse, misconstrued; but I'm picturing answers being like either "well, probably two or three more chunks" or "could be three chunks, could be thirty; we just don't know".
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Don't know how many, at least a few. Probably less than thirty.
 
ultima333 said:
There's not been too much of an update in the past few weeks, Xon got a chance to do a chunk of prep work at the start of the month but his schedule has been packed otherwise. And unfortunately, we're basically beholden to his schedule.

Wish I had better news, but I don't. :(
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
You'd get a lot less complaints if you just put out this sort of status update routinely.
 
Question from someone that never ran a forum, besides not using software that is no longer updated what will XF2 bring for security purposes?

Or is it legit "Nothing really, but 1 isn't updated any more so needs must"?
 
The problem with no longer update is the security problem. The underlying software (Database, PHP, Webserver, etc.) needs updates to mitigate security risks that are constantly found. There is a point when you can't update these anymore because newer Versions will not run with old XF1 anymore. The latest release for XF1 was on May 29, 2019. That is a long time in software terms.
 
Venumize said:
Question from someone that never ran a forum, besides not using software that is no longer updated what will XF2 bring for security purposes?

Or is it legit "Nothing really, but 1 isn't updated any more so needs must"?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

On top of the forum software security patches, the fact that the forum software itself isn't being updated means that a lot of the addons for Xenforo 1 have been abandoned as well, which means no updates for them either. Which means things like third party spam filters and bot blockers may no longer have up-to-date definitions, which means more work for human moderators.

There are a few new features built into xenforo2 (2-factor authentification as an option, for example), and then of course a host of third party stuff that is actively being developed, some of which is security related.

Then there's all the technical stuff that's invisible to the regular user, about how your data is managed etc.

But mostly, it's about "Xenforo 1 is a leaky boat, and everyone stopped trying to fix it more than three years ago; Xenforo 2 is also a leaky boat, but at least people are still working on patching that. "
 
ultima333 said:
Status update:
Xon's schedule seems to be clearing up a bit more- he did a big chunk of work this weekend, we should have the 'test' XF2 site up Soon™
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Pity.

Venumize said:
Question from someone that never ran a forum, besides not using software that is no longer updated what will XF2 bring for security purposes?

Or is it legit "Nothing really, but 1 isn't updated any more so needs must"?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

My main objection to Xen 2 is that it just looks as ugly as Hell.

Winchester said:
On top of the forum software security patches, the fact that the forum software itself isn't being updated means that a lot of the addons for Xenforo 1 have been abandoned as well, which means no updates for them either. Which means things like third party spam filters and bot blockers may no longer have up-to-date definitions, which means more work for human moderators.

There are a few new features built into xenforo2 (2-factor authentification as an option, for example), and then of course a host of third party stuff that is actively being developed, some of which is security related.

Then there's all the technical stuff that's invisible to the regular user, about how your data is managed etc.

But mostly, it's about "Xenforo 1 is a leaky boat, and everyone stopped trying to fix it more than three years ago; Xenforo 2 is also a leaky boat, but at least people are still working on patching that. "
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

There are unofficial "patches" that do a good job if you know where to look.
 
Unofficial patches amount to using a potentially leaky bucket to bail out a leaky boat.

They might work, but they're a risk.

And while that risk can be mitigated, it is not a risk that a reasonable person should take unless absolutely and utterly necessary when dealing with things like websites, where if the potentially leaky bucket is actually leaky hundreds if not thousands of users suffer.

And at the end of the day, better something that's ugly and functions well and securely than a site that looks nice and barely functions while being incredibly insecure.

If I wanted the latter, I'd be running around advocating for companies like Electronic Arts or Google's recent changes.
 
Jorin said:
My main objection to Xen 2 is that it just looks as ugly as Hell.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

"Ugly" can be solved with a properly customized stylesheet. You can make a forum look like basically anything if you put in the work. The thing is, most forum admins don't really want to dummy out QoL features brought by a new version of the software so they can make it look like the old version, so things change. Deal with it.

(It's not like XF2 is anything like Windows, where your options for UIs unless you're willing to dive into hell is "whatever Microsoft's designers think the UI should look like". Still miffed that I can't even move the taskbar around freely in 11 on my multi-monitor setup, where I kind of need it.)

Jorin said:
There are unofficial "patches" that do a good job if you know where to look.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Do they really? Can you be 100% sure that "unofficial security patches" are what they say on the tin, and not vectors for introducing malware? 'cause you'll have to be a real codemonkey to figure out whether a patch is real or fake just from looking at it.

Also, imagine there's a breech here, and someone has enough trouble during the fallout that they decide to sue the forum for not protecting their data better. Running on unsupported software with unofficial patches? That would make for a really good case that yes, the forum *could* have protected the data better, especially since there is a supported version with official patches.
 
As always, my main desire is that the QQ textbox is somehow kept. Or if someone can figure out how to preserve the textbox somewhere, because the functionality is perfect for me, and I hate the current SB textbox.

For example, when I use fullscreen on it? In ends up falling far short of the whole screen.
shitty-function.jpg
https://postimg.cc/jWcFq8vQ

That ain't the whole screen, and it doesn't even show the word count, etc. It's SHIT.


Or in general, the typing is not as responsive. QQ's textbox responds perfectly, there's no lag from activating bold or italics. SB and SV? They have that lag, meaning if I type without pause (and not even THAT fast, something like three letters per second is already enough to trigger this) while deactivating italics or bold, it fails to trigger the deactivation and I keep typing modified text, and such.
How the fuck do you downgrade in functionality?!


I can take a lot of changes assuming it's similar to what SB/SV will get. But god help me, please keep the textbox functional.
 
CrossyCross said:
As always, my main desire is that the QQ textbox is somehow kept. Or if someone can figure out how to preserve the textbox somewhere, because the functionality is perfect for me, and I hate the current SB textbox.

For example, when I use fullscreen on it? In ends up falling far short of the whole screen.
shitty-function.jpg
https://postimg.cc/jWcFq8vQ

That ain't the whole screen, and it doesn't even show the word count, etc. It's SHIT.


Or in general, the typing is not as responsive. QQ's textbox responds perfectly, there's no lag from activating bold or italics. SB and SV? They have that lag, meaning if I type without pause (and not even THAT fast, something like three letters per second is already enough to trigger this) while deactivating italics or bold, it fails to trigger the deactivation and I keep typing modified text, and such.
How the fuck do you downgrade in functionality?!


I can take a lot of changes assuming it's similar to what SB/SV will get. But god help me, please keep the textbox functional.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

IIRC the editor is the result of some of the Xon-developed addons which needed custom code so they could be accessed from the editor. Not sure whether the admins here are springing for those addons or not. I've never really noticed the input lag (then again I seldom use keyboard shortcuts for formatting tags, I tend to type everything in manually when I actually need tags), and I don't use full screen basically ever because not using it gives a better representation of what the post will look like when finished, most of the time.

Not sure why the SB version of the input box has the second scroll bar.
 
CrossyCross said:
As always, my main desire is that the QQ textbox is somehow kept. Or if someone can figure out how to preserve the textbox somewhere, because the functionality is perfect for me, and I hate the current SB textbox.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I seem to recall that the XF1 text box is actually a textbox html element, while the XF2-SB/SV text box is some sort of html contenteditable + JavaScript soup. But I don't remember how I arrived at that belief, so I'd have to double-check. I also don't know if that's specific to the "plain text mode" here, or it also applies to the "rich text mode".
 
MissileTeatime said:
I seem to recall that the XF1 text box is actually a textbox html element, while the XF2-SB/SV text box is some sort of html contenteditable + JavaScript soup. But I don't remember how I arrived at that belief, so I'd have to double-check. I also don't know if that's specific to the "plain text mode" here, or it also applies to the "rich text mode".
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
The WYSIWYG rich-text editor - the default one, that, e.g., shows bold text as bold text rather than [b]bold text[/b] - is Javascript in both cases, though I think there's some significant differences in implementation. The BBCode editor is a plain textbox in both versions; QQ has some additional Javascript elements that let you, e.g., select a segment of text and hit the 'Bold' button to have the [b] tags added automatically, but AIUI that's a QQ extension; SB and SV didn't have it before the upgrade.
 
MissileTeatime said:
I definitely recall that whatever gave me the impression above, also gave me the impression that this was not the case on SB/SV+XF2.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Huh. Just checked, and you're right; it's a <div> with contenteditable="true". It's still plaintext entry managed by the browser rather than a Javascript thing, though.
 
As a user and mostly lurker, the biggest difference between XF2 implementations like on SB/SV and what we currently have on QQ with XF1 is that when you click on a user' avatar, the modal that pops up with the user info has a much larger avatar spot on QQ as opposed to SB/SV. In order to see a zoomed in version of an avatar on SB/SV (compared to at rest on a page), you have to go to that user's profile page which is a complete page transition away.

Overall minor, but that is probably my biggest ask for something to be included/looked at when the XF2 upgrade happens.
 
AztecCroc said:
Why is [user-limited profile pages] even a thing anyway?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
A few reasons...
- A plain 'n simple desire for privacy, especially lurkers who are basically just here to read shit behind the lewdwall and don't want to interact otherwise beyond dropping the odd Like.
- A desire for less-restricted RP-ing on their profile pages, particularly that which is closer to the lewdline.
- A desire to avoid abuse or continuation of arguments in their profile pages.
- A desire to keep known-or-potential antagonists away from their IRL minutiae, if they happen to spill that kind of thing there.
...and also because that happens to be the long-existing setup, and thus doesn't have more fine-tuned options like, say, whitelisting or blacklisting specific members.
 
AFAIK its all on Xon time™
So hopefully before SB and SV need to update to XF3 but frankly what can one expect from a ARM Commander :V (referring to his avatar picture)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 1 (members: 0, guests: 1)
Back
Top