Cosmos Quest (Naruto/Lupin III)

uju32 · Nov 11, 2013

FurikoMaru said:
Not much for him to do in a room full of people who don't know he can talk.

True.

FurikoMaru said:
Basilisk?

Throning mooks requires eye contact.
Hence Basilisk.
Especially if we can figure out how to make it sealless.

FurikoMaru said:
Yeah, right out in the open sunlight. It wasn't until after the timeskip that he could control someone in a shady area.

Fair enough.

FurikoMaru said:
Kankuro is damn good. 8)

Suspiciously so.
God knows what nasty surprises Temari is hiding.

FurikoMaru · Nov 11, 2013

uju32 said:
True.Throning mooks requires eye contact.
Hence Basilisk.

Ohhh. I thought it was a reference to one of Kankuro's other puppets of which I wot not, or else the manga Basilisk.

Sometimes Furiko is a little slow.

Hymn of Ragnarok · Nov 11, 2013

Hmmm....

Okay, so Lupin is a fully realized person and he can do stuff for us, or otherwise work with us to make what we do more effective.

If we make other good enough constructs and instruct them to do things like...I dunno, "Goemon, work out a fighting style that suits my frame," or tell someone to try and figure out fuinjutsu for us, could we use everyone in our Throne to effectively gain more slots? I like investments that pay for themselves.

FurikoMaru · Nov 11, 2013

Hymn of Ragnarok said:
If we make other good enough constructs and instruct them to do things like...I dunno, "Goemon, work out a fighting style that suits my frame," or tell someone to try and figure out fuinjutsu for us, could we use everyone in our Throne to effectively gain more slots? I like investments that pay for themselves.

Lupin's the only actual person in the lot. The rest are just echoes. They'll be able to do what they did in life, but they won't be able to teach you anything Lupin couldn't teach you; they'll be like sockpuppets in your mind.

... oh, god, why did I remind myself of that Engie comic? :'(

Hymn of Ragnarok · Nov 11, 2013

FurikoMaru said:
Lupin's the only actual person in the lot. The rest are just echoes. They'll be able to do what they did in life, but they won't be able to teach you anything Lupin couldn't teach you; they'll be like sockpuppets in your mind.

Drat. I knew they'd be more like drones, but they'd at least be self-aware drones and hopefully let us effectively multiple avenues of thought/learning.

Oh well.

uju32 · Nov 11, 2013

Hymn of Ragnarok said:
At the same time, he's probably gonna make it clear that he's really glad she's alive and relatively unscathed, and that kind of affection is probably gonna make Ami misty eyed.

You may have a point here; Ami doesn't have a particularly good relationship with her father, so a surrogate father figure actually displaying concern would be something new.

Hymn of Ragnarok said:
I'd still take the risk if we had a fully tricked out Throne though, we're of the Yamanaka clan and the heiress besides. We just need to start applying ourselves properly. He's got some good tricks, but he's not Kibi. I still think we could kick his ass with all of our back-up and the mental static to fuck him up.

I wouldn't.
If he has some kludged up version of Shintenshin, he may well have an active defense that'll tie up our attention; a mental version of a tarbaby.
Like Inner Sakura.

And ~~I wouldn't put it past him to manage to put a limited construct inside his puppet.~~ we already have proof that his puppet is capable of autonomous action at range; remember the exam hall?
Odds are that was a construct running the damn thing; so while we're wrestling with him, we get backstabbed by a drone.

Then again, construct-piloted puppets raise the possibility that we could Throne his puppets and install our own constructs.

uju32 · Nov 11, 2013

FurikoMaru said:
Ohhh. I thought it was a reference to one of Kankuro's other puppets of which I wot not, or else the manga Basilisk.
Sometimes Furiko is a little slow.

Eh, don't worry about it.
Though, is it possible to eventually make it sealless?
Or a one handed seal, at least?

Hell, what are the limits on making techniques sealless in this AU?

Hymn of Ragnarok · Nov 11, 2013

uju32 said:
If he has some kludged up version of Shintenshin, he may well have an active defense that'll tie up our attention; a mental version of a tarbaby.
Like Inner Sakura.

And ~~I wouldn't put it past him to manage to put a limited construct inside his puppet.~~ we already have proof that his puppet is capable of autonomous action at range; remember the exam hall?
Odds are that was a construct running the damn thing; so while we're wrestling with him, we get backstabbed by a drone.

Then again, construct-piloted puppets raise the possibility that we could Throne his puppets and install our own constructs.

I'm pretty sure only Lupin could pull it off because unlike other constructs he is an actual person. Hence the significance of moving Ino's body.

I think you are worrying waaaaaaaaaaay too much about this. We belong to a family that is THE authority on mind jutsu. Throne is supposed to be like Tsukiyomi which probably includes time dialation and even if not? Lupin can move our body.

If a non-Lupin-like construct can't move their own body and therefore can't use chakra, why would Kankuro's be able to use chakra and manipulate the puppets?

You are sweating way too much over this guy's trick. Yes, be wary of it, but we've got so many better resources at our disposal than he does. If we dedicate ourselves to learning our stuff, this guy's stumblings and starts in this arena is not gonna compare to our clan's experience and our skill. Whatever he's got, he's not an Uchiha and he's not a genius Yamanaka learning from Inoichi and we specialize in constructs. I am confident we'd waste his ass in the mental arena if we come loaded to kill.

Mental static alone is going to fuck him and his control up something wretched.

EDIT: And what action at the exam hall? What did he do that's any different from what he did in canon?

iamnuff · Nov 11, 2013

FurikoMaru said:
Yes. It was the puppet. Kankuro has just worked out a personal system whereby in combat, no one can really be sure which is which, in part by using Shintenshin bullshit. He's lucky Hayate's gut told him which was the real person and he went with it instead of calling the match.

"it was the puppet"

... are you deliberately being unclear now?

which one was the puppet?? the one Shika caught? or the one he didn't?

and he has a personal system, where nobody can tell which is which because of soul-magic ninja bullshit? thats... vague.

so does this mean my assumption about the puppet moving on its own was wrong?

Shika caught the puppet then Kankuro took out the lights himself?

hmm, then again, if the puppet can move on its own, they he could let it control himself, as though HE was a puppet, just to mess with people.

that would have caused the wire tension and so forth, that involves throwing himself into danger as a false decoy though, so it's kinda dumb.

Edit: wait, puppets actually use wires in this fic, rather than magical chakra string that you can control with a single finger?

Yeah, Sarutobi's a boss like that.

Grand Master of Jedi Order am I. Won this job in a raffle I did, think you?

edit2:

If we go into the infermry, we should leave menka here to watch the pretty explosions.

[X] You'll visit now; you've left the bullet issue long enough.
-[X] menka can stay and watch.

Vindictus · Nov 11, 2013

IIRC, Canon Kankuro used wires to hide the fact that he could manipulate the puppet without wires.

A cunning deception, to say the least.

Hymn of Ragnarok · Nov 11, 2013

Menka staying to watch is a giveaway that he's at least very intelligent. If we've gone this far to muddle the waters on his abilities, I see no reason to give up the game now for such trivial benefits that may not even be relevant, should we get back before they fix the lights.

Besides, Hinata, Mokona, and Chouji are still around. Not us, but probably good enough.

uju32 · Nov 11, 2013

Hymn of Ragnarok said:
I'm pretty sure only Lupin could pull it off because unlike other constructs he is an actual person. Hence the significance of moving Ino's body.

For Ino certainly.
We have no idea if Kankuro's a reincarnation himself, or has a head guy.

Hymn of Ragnarok said:
I think you are worrying waaaaaaaaaaay too much about this. We belong to a family that is THE authority on mind jutsu. Throne is supposed to be like Tsukiyomi which probably includes time dialation and even if not? Lupin can move our body.

Lupin can move our body if we're unconscious.
Can he drive it if we're engaged in mental combat?
Remains to be seen.

Hymn of Ragnarok said:
If a non-Lupin-like construct can't move their own body and therefore can't use chakra, why would Kankuro's be able to use chakra and manipulate the puppets?

Be careful about making assumptions.
We know dickall about his constructs(if any), or if they differ from what we know.

Again, this dude reverse-engineered some aspects of Shintenshin while living in Suna, which is not exactly a treasure trove of information on a bloodline-centric hiden technique from Konoha.

Hymn of Ragnarok said:
You are sweating way too much over this guy's trick. Yes, be wary of it, but we've got so many better resources at our disposal than he does. If we dedicate ourselves to learning our stuff, this guy's stumblings and starts in this arena is not gonna compare to our clan's experience and our skill. Whatever he's got, he's not an Uchiha and he's not a genius Yamanaka learning from Inoichi and we specialize in constructs. I am confident we'd waste his ass in the mental arena if we come loaded to kill.

Oh, we'll beat him mentally.
Eventually.
But he doesn't have to win, just draw it out long enough for a puppet to intervene.
Hence my use of the term tarbaby.
I mean, that's basically our defensive plan should Itachi Tsukiyomi us.

I mean, if canon Sakura with zero training was able to kick Ino out of her head, this Kankuro deserves to be treated with caution.
Especially if he's smart enough to invent techniques from whole cloth.

Hymn of Ragnarok said:
Mental static alone is going to fuck him and his control up something wretched.

That is yet to be proven.
I certainly hope it is, but we haven't yet weaponised it.

Hymn of Ragnarok said:
EDIT: And what action at the exam hall? What did he do that's any different from what he did in canon?

We generally gloss over canon exam, because the impersonate proctor thing was a humongous plot hole.
If Kankuro could manage that in canon, he'd have been a much more dangerous opponent.
For one thing, he'd have beaten Shino.

Hymn of Ragnarok · Nov 11, 2013

uju32 said:
For Ino certainly.
We have no idea if Kankuro's a reincarnation himself, or has a head guy.

He might, I've wondered. Also not too worried because our clan is THE authority. We oughta be able to handle this.

Lupin can move our body if we're unconscious.
Can he drive it if we're engaged in mental combat?
Remains to be seen.

Remains to be confirmed more like. It's a pretty reasonable extension of what he's already done.

And if Ino hugging herself is Lupin hugging her, then it's practically confirmed.

Be careful about making assumptions.
We know dickall about his constructs(if any), or if they differ from what we know.

Again, this dude reverse-engineered some aspects of Shintenshin while living in Suna, which is not exactly a treasure trove of information on a bloodline-centric hiden technique from Konoha.

And if they're somehow better than ours he frankly deserves the win. You're worrying WAY too much about this.

Plus we can target multiple people with Throne so even if he's got a construct that is a real person in the puppet we can yank it in.

Oh, we'll beat him mentally.
Eventually.
But he doesn't have to win, just draw it out long enough for a puppet to intervene.
Hence my use of the term tarbaby.
I mean, that's basically our defensive plan should Itachi Tsukiyomi us.

Tsukiyomi lasts only an instant, Throne is like Reverse Tsukiyomi, I don't think anyone's proposed trying to shank Itachi while he Tsukiyomi's us. For starters in real time it doesn't take that long and Lupin is probably more useful tag teaming Itachi.

I mean, if canon Sakura with zero training was able to kick Ino out of her head,

Canon Ino doesn't deserve to be mentioned in the same breath as us and you know it.

this Kankuro deserves to be treated with caution.
Especially if he's smart enough to invent techniques from whole cloth.

Caution, yes. Being afraid to engage him in mental combat is like Neji being afraid to engage us in Jyuuken because he knows we have ghetto Jyuuken.

That's just being pathetic, I'm sorry. It's wussing out because you don't know all you thought you did about your specialty and aren't confident you can handle resistance. For the clan heiress to be backing down, that's really fucking sad.

That is yet to be proven.
I certainly hope it is, but we haven't yet weaponised it.

But we can do it, and it's a massive debuff to him that doesn't apply to us. If he's used to being able to concentrate he may kiss that goodbye.

We generally gloss over canon exam, because the impersonate proctor thing was a humongous plot hole.
If Kankuro could manage that in canon, he'd have been a much more dangerous opponent.
For one thing, he'd have beaten Shino.

No argument there.

uju32 · Nov 11, 2013

Hymn of Ragnarok said:
He might, I've wondered. Also not too worried because our clan is THE authority. We oughta be able to handle this.

Our clan is the authority, not Ino.
She has a long way to go yet, and I have my doubts as to her ability to stomp a possible mind-user mentally.

Hymn of Ragnarok said:
And if they're somehow better than ours he frankly deserves the win. You're worrying WAY too much about this.

I don't think you are worrying enough.
We'll see what Inoichi has to say.

Hymn of Ragnarok said:
Plus we can target multiple people with Throne so even if he's got a construct that is a real person in the puppet we can yank it in.

Eye contact required.
That makes it consecutive, not simultaneous.

Hymn of Ragnarok said:
Tsukiyomi lasts only an instant, Throne is like Reverse Tsukiyomi, I don't think anyone's proposed trying to shank Itachi while he Tsukiyomi's us. For starters in real time it doesn't take that long and Lupin is probably more useful tag teaming Itachi.

Tsukiyomi has variable time dilation; see Sasuke v Itachi.

Hymn of Ragnarok said:
Canon Ino doesn't deserve to be mentioned in the same breath as us and you know it.

Canon Ino is currently running battlefield telepathy for five armies.
She may have been less capable at 13, but so wasd everyone else

Hymn of Ragnarok said:
Caution, yes. Being afraid to engage him in mental combat is like Neji being afraid to engage us in Jyuuken because he knows we have ghetto Jyuuken.

Nope.
It's like Neji being cautious about engaging Kibi on finding out she studied the Jyuuken.
Choosing a strategy your opponent is less familiar with is just good sense.

Hymn of Ragnarok said:
That's just being pathetic, I'm sorry. It's wussing out because you don't know all you thought you did about your specialty and aren't confident you can handle resistance. For the clan heiress to be backing down, that's really fucking sad.

Fuck that.
We're ninja, not samurai; intentionally picking the path of most resistance during an exam because of pride is a boneheaded thing to do.
Especially if it's playing into their strategy.

Besides, I will hold up the example of Kibi and what she did to Neji's Jyuuken due to her having studied it.
I will not be at all surprised to find Kankuro working the same angle.

Hymn of Ragnarok said:
But we can do it, and it's a massive debuff to him that doesn't apply to us. If he's used to being able to concentrate he may kiss that goodbye.

If.
Given that puppeteers learn to multitask, that's not a safe assumption.
Possible, but not safe.

Hymn of Ragnarok · Nov 11, 2013

uju32 said:
Our clan is the authority, not Ino.
She has a long way to go yet, and I have my doubts as to her ability to stomp a possible mind-user mentally.

And we've got them backing us, and have access to all their experience.

I don't think you are worrying enough.
We'll see what Inoichi has to say.

Since he doesn't even know something like Lupin is capable of existing and we may not even end up telling him, I rather doubt you'll be reassured. Especially when paranoia is so insidious and self-perpetuating. And I'm speaking from personal experience on that one.

Eye contact required.
That makes it consecutive, not simultaneous.

Still quite good enough.

Tsukiyomi has variable time dilation; see Sasuke v Itachi.

Inside, yes, but outside it's still pretty much instantaneous, right?

Canon Ino is currently running battlefield telepathy for five armies.
She may have been less capable at 13, but so wasd everyone else

But seeing as she was frankly pathetic at 13 and that's when the fight you're citing happened, that's not very relevant is it?

I mean come on. Kunoichi of the Year only manages a mutual KO with Sakura?

Nope.
It's like Neji being cautious about engaging Kibi on finding out she studied the Jyuuken.
Choosing a strategy your opponent is less familiar with is just good sense.

Not that she studied jyuuken, just that she was using genjutsu to upset his taijutsu. That is different from a straight contest of taijutsu. We should not be getting beat in contests of pure mental jutsu; we should be beating the competition.

There's a difference between playing into a trap and then there's being too worried to employ your specialty. Gaara, would not employ. Kankuro? With a maxed Throne by all rights his ass should be ours.

Fuck that.
We're ninja, not samurai; intentionally picking the path of most resistance during an exam because of pride is a boneheaded thing to do.
Especially if it's playing into their strategy.

That it can be presumed as the path of most resistance along your clan's specialty says, "Huh, maybe the clan isn't all that good/the heiress isn't all that good."

Seriously, as a Yamanaka we should not be getting punked in our clan's specialty. It's like a Hyuuga getting their ass beat in straight melee combat by a nobody. It's a thing that should not be happening and we look like wusses for letting it happen. The path of most resistance had better not be our very supposed specialty.

Besides, I will hold up the example of Kibi and what she did to Neji's Jyuuken due to her having studied it.
I will not be at all surprised to find Kankuro working the same angle.

And it didn't take Neji very long to neutralize that roadblock did it? He didn't get beat, he got inconvenienced and he worked around it damn quick. That's what it should be for us.

If.
Given that puppeteers learn to multitask, that's not a safe assumption.
Possible, but not safe.

So? If you can multi-task effectively, does that mean your senses and abilities aren't compromised when you're drunk or hungover?

Torgamous · Nov 11, 2013

uju32 said:
It's like Neji being cautious about engaging Kibi on finding out she studied the Jyuuken.
Choosing a strategy your opponent is less familiar with is just good sense.

Kankuro's specialty is puppets and puppet accessories, and he's figured out a way to get his puppet to read as human through a method that is Shintenshin-like. That is not an indication that Kankuro has been specifically studying to counter our brand of mindfuckery. This isn't like Kibi, it isn't even like our ghetto-Jyuuken. It could be a case of independent development, could be he drew inspiration from our clan, could be a preexisting puppet master technique of undetermined relation to Shintenshin, but however he got it it's something he's using with his puppets. Throne is a very different thing from Shintenshin. For Kankuro to have that he'd need to have gone past puppet-augmentation and dived straight into our clan's rabbit hole.

Furiko, how unique is Shintenshin? How unlikely is it that someone who wanted to do something similar would develop something that looks like it, and what're the odds against a prodigy in puppet stealth developing such a technique independently?

Vindictus · Nov 11, 2013

IIRC, Shintenshin is unique enough that it was specifically mentioned that Orochimaru's Body-Walking technique [the only vaguely similar technique in the series] is a derivation of it.

That said, Suna did have Human Puppetry as one of it's dirty little secrets. I wouldn't be surprised if this was as much based off of that principle as the Shintenshin.

uju32 · Nov 11, 2013

Hymn of Ragnarok said:
And we've got them backing us, and have access to all their experience.

Which is not the same thing as being able to use it.
Or even having access to it; you'll remember that Inoichi does not allow access to some techniques based on age.

Hymn of Ragnarok said:
Since he doesn't even know something like Lupin is capable of existing and we may not even end up telling him, I rather doubt you'll be reassured. Especially when paranoia is so insidious and self-perpetuating. And I'm speaking from personal experience on that one.

*raises eyebrow*
The man who taught us constructs?
That realized we were a reincarnation before we could speak? That was the first person to refer to our head voices?
You underestimate him.

Hymn of Ragnarok said:
Still quite good enough.

No it's not.
Not if you're working alone against more than one opponent.
IMO.

Hymn of Ragnarok said:
Inside, yes, but outside it's still pretty much instantaneous, right?

By most indications.
But we are going to need a GM ruling on Throne duration, especially if opposed.

Hymn of Ragnarok said:
But seeing as she was frankly pathetic at 13 and that's when the fight you're citing happened, that's not very relevant is it?
I mean come on. Kunoichi of the Year only manages a mutual KO with Sakura?

Given that Sakura was specifically picked for Team 7?
Not a stretch.

Hymn of Ragnarok said:
Not that she studied jyuuken, just that she was using genjutsu to upset his taijutsu. That is different from a straight contest of taijutsu. We should not be getting beat in contests of pure mental jutsu; we should be beating the competition.

That's directly contradicted by Ino's thoughts during the match; I quote

A gentaijutsu specialist must be a flexible and peerless athlete, a scholar well-versed in hundreds of fighting styles, and a genjutsu master on top of everything else.
And none of the very few you can name off the top of your head have done what this girl has done. To have managed this much she must have spent months if not years learning the theory of Gentle Fist, running through the few common elements known to those outside Konoha, all in order to internalize the style and turn it back on itself

Kibi may not have been able to use it in combat, but she studied what knowledge there was available enough to craft a strategy to beat it.
You do not need to be a bomb maker to know how to defuse one.

Hymn of Ragnarok said:
There's a difference between playing into a trap and then there's being too worried to employ your specialty. Gaara, would not employ. Kankuro? With a maxed Throne by all rights his ass should be ours.
That it can be presumed as the path of most resistance along your clan's specialty says, "Huh, maybe the clan isn't all that good/the heiress isn't all that good."

Or that your opponent really is that good.
Kibi v Neji had Neji winning by abandoning his clan specialty of Jyuuken, and using other taijutsu.

I will point out that we didn't notice Kankuro's puppet was aping a proctor until it moved, something no one else has been able to pull on us.
That alone says volumes about the quality of his skills; if he's using a Shintenshin related technique, arrogance is a terrible idea
We have gaps in our knowledge, and even our expertise could use work.

Hymn of Ragnarok said:
Seriously, as a Yamanaka we should not be getting punked in our clan's specialty. It's like a Hyuuga getting their ass beat in straight melee combat by a nobody. It's a thing that should not be happening and we look like wusses for letting it happen. The path of most resistance had better not be our very supposed specialty.

Again, I have made the point that he does not need to beat us, just stalemate us long enough for alternatives to work.
And if an opponent has some familiarity with your strategy, the smart thing is to change it.

And frankly, someone who insists on pride as a motivating factor for artificially increasing the difficulty factor of a mission is not suitable to lead a team.
Especially if they're a teen.

Hymn of Ragnarok said:
And it didn't take Neji very long to neutralize that roadblock did it? He didn't get beat, he got inconvenienced and he worked around it damn quick. That's what it should be for us.

He worked around it by not using Jyuuken.
Which is my point.

Hymn of Ragnarok said:
So? If you can multi-task effectively, does that mean your senses and abilities aren't compromised when you're drunk or hungover?

Mental static, AFAICT, does not compromise senses; it adds an additional source of input to distract/overload your attention.
Besides, we're supposed to be integrating it into a memory palace, not a genjutsu.

uju32 · Nov 11, 2013

Torgamous said:
Kankuro's specialty is puppets and puppet accessories, and he's figured out a way to get his puppet to read as human through a method that is Shintenshin-like.
*snip*
Throne is a very different thing from Shintenshin. For Kankuro to have that he'd need to have gone past puppet-augmentation and dived straight into our clan's rabbit hole.

Again, it doesn't mean that he can use classic Shintenshin.
What it means is that he has enough related knowledge and experience to possibly mount a defense against it.

And we have no idea how broad his skillset is, certainly not enough to make any judgements.
Given that he's at least a year older than we are, and more experienced, I would not choose to test it if I have alternatives.
Certainly not for anything as ephemeral as pride; we're not canon!Neji.
And not with a promotion at stake.

Of course, Ino's characterization would have her take the challenge if she was so challenged.
But she hasn't been.
The only reason I would see her testing it would be to assess how much of a threat it was to Yamanaka techniques.

iamnuff · Nov 12, 2013

frankly, saying "our clan is good at X so someone else could never beat us at it" despite us recently having managed to get our clan technique actually functional?

probably a bad idea.

It might be the clan specialisation, but we personally, never put much effort into it.

Guile · Nov 12, 2013

iamnuff said:
frankly, saying "our clan is good at X so someone else could never beat us at it" despite us recently having managed to get our clan technique actually functional?

probably a bad idea.

It might be the clan specialisation, but we personally, never put much effort into it.

There were also age restrictions, as I recall.

If the mind reader clan had them, there was presumably a purpose.

Hymn of Ragnarok · Nov 12, 2013

uju32 said:
Which is not the same thing as being able to use it.
Or even having access to it; you'll remember that Inoichi does not allow access to some techniques based on age.

Never implied we'd be using the techniques. But we would understand the ins and outs of the mind, how it's supposed to work.

*raises eyebrow*
The man who taught us constructs?

Speaking of, I just remembered Furiko described Sakura's split personality as a crude construct.

That realized we were a reincarnation before we could speak?

We are talking about Inoichi, right? He's never realized it. He thinks Ino is a girl who hears SB voices in her head.

That was the first person to refer to our head voices?
You underestimate him.

What I'm not underestimating is our S-Rank Thought Concealment and Inoichi being very attached to his preconceptions of SB voices. Inoichi figuring it out on his own? I've pretty much relegated that to, "He is unlikely to figure this out on his own." Not without us telling him.

He may figure out something is wrong if he sees Ino's body moving while she's supposed to be elsewhere, but pegging us for what we are? Nah.

No it's not.
Not if you're working alone against more than one opponent.
IMO.

Seeing as Inoichi deploys this against multiples, we have crazy fast handsigns, I see no reason why you'd be so set on it not being good enough when there seems to be a distinct lack of evidence that it wouldn't work. Furiko even touted this from the word go as a multi-target thing, IIRC, but don't quote me.

Given that Sakura was specifically picked for Team 7?
Not a stretch.

Ino's strength was supposed to be practicals and in a cage match all she and Sakura had was a mutual KO. Weak.

That's directly contradicted by Ino's thoughts during the match; I quoteKibi may not have been able to use it in combat, but she studied what knowledge there was available enough to craft a strategy to beat it.

That is not at all what I meant. My point was not that Kibi studying Jyuuken and using Jyuuken is what made Naji cautious, it's how she used it in her gentaijutsu. Yes, she studied it. What it ultimately came to was not her using Jyuuken for taijutsu to beat a Hyuuga, but her using her knowledge of Jyuuken to apply her gentaijutsu.

Or that your opponent really is that good.
Kibi v Neji had Neji winning by abandoning his clan specialty of Jyuuken, and using other taijutsu.

Once again, us losing on our clan specialty is bad. It's a sign that someone else is beating the next clan heiress. That's a political suckerpunch.

And Neji didn't lose by being beaten at his own game, which we would.

I will point out that we didn't notice Kankuro's puppet was aping a proctor until it moved, something no one else has been able to pull on us.

I will also point out that Furiko said during the exam that she forgot we should had notice, so muddled waters.

Again, I have made the point that he does not need to beat us, just stalemate us long enough for alternatives to work.
And if an opponent has some familiarity with your strategy, the smart thing is to change it.

And frankly, someone who insists on pride as a motivating factor for artificially increasing the difficulty factor of a mission is not suitable to lead a team.

Forget pride as a motivating factor, this is supposed to be our specialty. We are not supposed to be delusional about the extent of our skill to the point where we can't get dissemble and defuse whatever mental jutsu someone with far less knowledge and experience can throw our way. We should be exactly that good and be living up to our clan's hype.

The failure here would not be pride; it would be us not being as good as we're expected to be, especially if we max out Throne.

He worked around it by not using Jyuuken.
Which is my point.

Again: so what? It wasn't a taijutsu match or a kind of match where, say, Lee vs Neji and Lee kicks Neji's ass. That's an embarrassment for Neji because with his haxx style, he should be kicking ass because he's good and GF is haxx. He's expected to have it under control.

Or, perhaps more accurate, Ino beating him while she's using Jyuuken against his Jyuuken.

In fact we have even more expectation to dominate because mental stuff like this is a hell of a lot more rare and we should be leagues beyond everyone else in our age group, so we damn well better be.

Mental static, AFAICT, does not compromise senses; it adds an additional source of input to distract/overload your attention.

Yes, that's the point. I think shoving loads of unwanted mental static at a person that they can't do jack about cause they're stuck in our mental palace counts as compromised.

No, we are not supposed to be completely invincible in this arena. Ibiki can apparently beat us around if we'd tried possessing him. He rubs elbows with Inoichi. He's with Konoha. He's got the background and experience.

Someone not from around here? And we're getting cold feet cause maybe he has his own super-secret construct of trick that's gonna ruin our shit?

Yeah, no. There's a level of risk in everything we do. If we max out Throne and hit Master, which I suspect we will if e fill stuff up, then I am not going to wring my hands in indecision because I don't get Kankuro's trick. We've got a co-pilot, we've got the history and teachers to maximize our potential. Go for it.

FurikoMaru · Nov 12, 2013

[X] And I'm lyin' here, just starin' at the ceiling tiles

Ugh. Your nose crinkles as you walk in the door. Hospital smell. So many precious memories.

Well, you know one way to fix that!

With a flick of your wrist, a bouquet of anemones (for sincerity - never hurts to be prepared to deliver a formal apology) pops out of your sleeve and into your hands. Like an admirer to a prima ballerina, you toss them into Tenten's thoroughly surprised arms.

"Ah, there's my destined rival~!"

Tenten can't seem to decide between glaring at you and looking horrified at those words.

Can't say I blame her. Your non-apology was way crueller than anything I've ever said to her; she's gonna kill herself trying to catch up to us.

Don't worry about her, she's a Zenigata; she can take it.

"UUOH! Such an honest and forthright acknowledgement!" Gai's eyes well with tears. "Tenten, you are most fortunate to have a rival so full of fire!"

Very quietly, Neji laughs.

He really needs to do that more often!

"Indeed!" Lee injects as much intensity into his exhausted voice as he can manage while propped up in bed, which makes him sound, oddly, like a normal person being enthusiastic. "As your sempai, Ino, I'm proud of how much you've grown! The truth is, for a moment in your battle with Tenten, I doubted your spirit. I thought perhaps your spark had dimmed with unyouthful contempt. But the true beauty behind your words...!" He clenches his fists. "I still have so far to go in my understanding of true rivalry."

"Hahaha!" Gai lets out a mighty laugh. "What's this, Lee? Getting discouraged, are you?"

"Not at all, sensei!"

"Ino is not my rival!" Tenten declares heatedly to the room in general.

Neji shakes his head. "Let them be. Once they get going it's impossible to change their minds."

"Hey, where're my flowers?" Kiba calls.

"Aren't we enough?" you ask, dragging an eyerolling Ami over to his bedside.

"Did you bring it?" he asks.

[X] "Yep." Pull out the bullets.

[X] "'Course." Don't pull them out.

Hymn of Ragnarok · Nov 12, 2013

Hmm. We're given the choice, which makes me wonder what the consequences of each are. Admittedly I'm still a bit worried they've been snatched from us or what Kiba wants has expired or dissolved or something. Consequences to showing the stuff in front of the Team Gai maybe?

And no snark from Kiba on Ami's new skin tone?

EDIT:

[X] "'Course." Don't pull them out.

If Kiba wants to see them, asking for them isn't a big deal. Or at least I can't see why it would be. Unless we'd be confirming that yes, we do have them?

Silversun17 · Nov 12, 2013

[x] "Course, their taking up the pocket space i would have put YOUR flowers in." Don't pull them out.

Selias · Nov 12, 2013

[X] "Yep." Pull out the bullets.

Might as well make sure that getting those were what he actually wanted.

Jack Trade · Nov 12, 2013

[X] "'Course." Don't pull them out.

uju32 · Nov 12, 2013

FurikoMaru said:
[X] And I'm lyin' here, just starin' at the ceiling tiles

Bare Naked Ladies - Brian Wilson.

FurikoMaru said:
Ugh. Your nose crinkles as you walk in the door. Hospital smell. So many precious memories.
Well, you know one way to fix that!
With a flick of your wrist, a bouquet of anemones (for sincerity - never hurts to be prepared to deliver a formal apology) pops out of your sleeve and into your hands. Like an admirer to a prima ballerina, you toss them into Tenten's thoroughly surprised arms.

Language of Flowers: Anemones- Anticipation, unfading love,good luck and protection against evil.
Multiple, deniable meanings.
As expected from the daughter of a florist.
Ah, Ino is gonna have so much fun teasing her.

FurikoMaru said:
"Ah, there's my destined rival~!"
Tenten can't seem to decide between glaring at you and looking horrified at those words.
Can't say I blame her. Your non-apology was way crueller than anything I've ever said to her; she's gonna kill herself trying to catch up to us.
Don't worry about her, she's a Zenigata; she can take it.

Destined rival?!
I see that Lupin found time to brief Ino >

Lupin's more than a little callous, isn't he?

FurikoMaru said:
"UUOH! Such an honest and forthright acknowledgement!" Gai's eyes well with tears. "Tenten, you are most fortunate to have a rival so full of fire!"
Very quietly, Neji laughs.
He really needs to do that more often!

I wonder how many of those meanings Gai caught, and exactly how transparent we are to him.
Very, I suspect.

FurikoMaru said:
"Indeed!" Lee injects as much intensity into his exhausted voice as he can manage while propped up in bed, which makes him sound, oddly, like a normal person being enthusiastic. "As your sempai, Ino, I'm proud of how much you've grown! The truth is, for a moment in your battle with Tenten, I doubted your spirit. I thought perhaps your spark had dimmed with unyouthful contempt. But the true beauty behind your words...!" He clenches his fists. "I still have so far to go in my understanding of true rivalry."
"Hahaha!" Gai lets out a mighty laugh. "What's this, Lee? Getting discouraged, are you?"
"Not at all, sensei!"

Lol Lee.
He and Gai are characters.
They always brighten things up.

FurikoMaru said:
"Ino is not my rival!" Tenten declares heatedly to the room in general.
Neji shakes his head. "Let them be. Once they get going it's impossible to change their minds."

I see this rivalry is going to be quite opposite to Kakashi/Gai's own.
Lol.

FurikoMaru said:
[X] "Yep." Pull out the bullets.
[X] "'Course." Don't pull them out.

Hmm.
Pulling them out now tells Gai that Kiba had a plan going into the arena, which will help his assessment ratings; ours too, if we reverse engineer a pistol before the finals.
And if there's something time sensitive about the bullet, better we tell him now.
Question is we might not want to share what's going on.
I'm leaning towards pulling them out.

hunter09 · Nov 12, 2013

[X] "Yep." Pull out the bullets

Silversun17 · Nov 12, 2013

[X] "Yep." Pull out the bullets.
[X] "Gai-sensai, next time i give tenten flowers would you agree that a bouquet of Fennel, Justicia, Deep pink roses, Rocket flowers and Rudbeckia would fit her?

Fennel: Worthy of all praise, Strength
Justicia: The perfection of female loveliness
Rose, Deep Pink: Appreciation, Grattitude, ''Thank You for being in my life''
Rocket: Rival
Rudbeckia: Justice

Cosmos Quest (Naruto/Lupin III)

Not too sore, are you?

Experienced.

Well worn.

Experienced.

Well worn.

Not too sore, are you?

Not too sore, are you?

Well worn.

Connoisseur.

Experienced.

Well worn.

Not too sore, are you?

Well worn.

Not too sore, are you?

Well worn.

Official Matsu

Experienced.

Not too sore, are you?

Not too sore, are you?

Connoisseur.

Clothes That Kill Virgins

Well worn.

Experienced.

Well worn.

Connoisseur.

Well worn.

Chasing the Green Fairy.

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Versed in the lewd.

Connoisseur.

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