Dead

[Silver W. King]

She turned back around, and her hand approached one of the buttons...

Click to shrink...

And pressed the "Isolation Field Shutoff" button, because clearly the villains had prepared a trap trap and expected her to expect them to switch the labels when in truth they had been unswitched from the beginning.

Thus the energy field was gone and her friends were safely released.

"Ha, see! Easy-peasy," said Necros to her now reunited friends as she took them in a hug.

 

[GiftofLove]

And pressed the "Isolation Field Shutoff" button, because clearly the villains had prepared a trap trap and expected her to expect them to switch the labels when in truth they had been unswitched from the beginning.

Thus the energy field was gone and her friends were safely released.

"Ha, see! Easy-peasy," said Necros to her now reunited friends as she took them in a hug.

Click to shrink...

And then promptly disintegrated when the actual trap was sprung by not interning the proper sequence beforehand.

 

[SETIFAN]

[X] No

 

[edale]

And pressed the "Isolation Field Shutoff" button, because clearly the villains had prepared a trap trap and expected her to expect them to switch the labels when in truth they had been unswitched from the beginning.

Thus the energy field was gone and her friends were safely released.

"Ha, see! Easy-peasy," said Necros to her now reunited friends as she took them in a hug.

Click to shrink...

And then promptly disintegrated when the actual trap was sprung by not interning the proper sequence beforehand.

Click to shrink...

You guys must not be fans of the Hitchcock school of horror.

 

[Scorpion 3-²]

[X] No

This guy is just to dangerous.

 

[edale]

Yes he's dangerous, but on the flip side... There's literally NO other way for Emma to recover to any reasonable state of sanity any time soon.

Perhaps we can negotiate some other price, or a different prize from his challenge, but it's him or nothing for Emma.

 

[Dromeosaur]

[X] Talk to somebody about Emma
-[X]hollow man, our great friend! Perhaps he knows bee?

 

[doomlord9]

[X] Go rest the addiction healing wards they are running low
-[X] Burn the paper, then summon dozens of smaller spirits to scatter the ashes as far as they can go before being unsummoned.
--[X] Put the crystal in a sock, tie it off, put that sock into another, tie it off, repeat 6 times until it is securely contained away from flesh contact and keep it with you until you can figure out a way to seal it off from having anyone, even ourselves, be able to access it if we can't find a way to safely destroy it.

Fuck that, let's go do something useful.

And once again, there was no way 'losing' that paper and crystal was an accident.

Yes he's dangerous, but on the flip side... There's literally NO other way for Emma to recover to any reasonable state of sanity any time soon.

Perhaps we can negotiate some other price, or a different prize from his challenge, but it's him or nothing for Emma.

Click to shrink...

I do not see this as a problem.

I'll be completely honest, if there was any chance of a takeback I would use it to reverse the utterly moronic decision not to just cut Emma's head off before she even knew we were there.

This Emma should NOT get any sort of redemption arc, or any redemption at all. Canon Emma at the start of the story would have gotten an approving nod from Jack slash with her dedication and creativity in torturing us for years while taking notes because he usually only goes for the short term torture, the locker itself would have gotten a polite clap and suggestions on how to improve it.

THIS one however....after it became obvious that she could not do so anymore, she promptly went looking and discovered a method to become even more vile and monstrous. She promptly took the first offer for power she was given, sacrificed her parents to an eldritch power and utterly destroying their souls in the process, then did the same to dozen or hundreds of people with plans to do so to thousands or millions more. And now....now she gets redeemed because we felt sorry for her due to her looking like crap because she was pushing herself too hard thinking of yet more ways to destroy lives?

No. No. Hell no. Fuck no. Fucking HELL NO!

We are NOT going shonen stupid and forgiving her just because she looked sad and pathetic and then she becomes our companion and bestest friend again as we keep her close and tell her all of our new secrets to use against us for WHEN she betrays us once again. That is likely the reason he wants her up and running again, she is the greatest traitor not only towards us personally but also that has probably existed in this city for decades. Emma was just small scale at first but Grem is probably deeply in lust with her because of her actions.

Even if she does recover my first vote will be to either cut her head off then after telling her what she did or turning her over to the PRT for trial and hopefully execution or to be Birdcaged, which is the same thing really since she doesn't have powers anymore. She has become an absolute monster on the level of the S9 and she is NOT being forgiven and redeemed for any reason whatsoever. I will fight you on this until my last breathe, this kind of retarded shonen shit is the reason I drop fics entirely.

 

[GiftofLove]

She has become an absolute monster on the level of the S9 and she is NOT being forgiven and redeemed for any reason whatsoever. I will fight you on this until my last breathe, this kind of retarded shonen shit is the reason I drop fics entirely.

Click to shrink...

Not the S9, no. Nilbog, yes.

The S9 just show up and cause absolute hell for awhile. Emma was going to sacrifice our dimension and all the souls in it to the Queen Bee.

 

[Snake/Eater]

[X] Talk to somebody about Emma
-[X] hollow man, our great friend! Perhaps he knows bee?

Emma's dead, all that remains is a living brain damaged copse, we could rebuild a new person by by binding a spirit to her body or virgin sacrifice as a option.

 

[GiftofLove]

Emma's dead, all that remains is a living brain damaged copse, we could rebuild a new person by by binding a spirit to her body or virgin sacrifice as a option.

Click to shrink...

Stop trying to perform blood magic, please!

 

[Snake/Eater]

Stop trying to perform blood magic, please!

Click to shrink...

ok, i can live with that just because you said please.

 

[Nai]

[X] Go rest the addiction healing wards they are running low
[X] Talk to somebody about Emma
-[X] Dad and Hollow Man

 

[edale]

[X] Go rest the addiction healing wards they are running low
[X] Talk to somebody about Emma
-[X] Dad - talk about Emma's betrayal (+5 to Necros being Taylor again) and the time spell, and when to reset Emma to.
-[X] Diviner - ask about ramifications and PRT/villain reaction to healing Emma, and when to reset Emma to.

the locker itself would have gotten a polite clap and suggestions on how to improve it.

Click to shrink...

Point-in-fact, Bonesaw did improve on the locker, just ask Grue, and she got redeemed...because she was under outside influences (and age, but Emma's a minor as well).



Gremthaxel's trying to ingratiate himself to us atm, so the Crystal's potentially safe, but all the same, I don't think we should touch it for now.

 

[GiftofLove]

After a certain point you become responsible for your own actions. You can't just keep blaming past trauma forever and expect it to be a valid excuse for atrocity.

 

[Fishyface]

[X] Go rest the addiction healing wards they are running low
[X] Talk to somebody about Emma
-[X] Dad and Hollow Man

 

[doomlord9]

Point-in-fact, Bonesaw did improve on the locker, just ask Grue, and she got redeemed...because she was under outside influences (and age, but Emma's a minor as well).

Click to shrink...

After a certain point you become responsible for your own actions. You can't just keep blaming past trauma forever and expect it to be a valid excuse for atrocity.

Click to shrink...

This. Bonesaw was under the influence of someone who had a Master power that let him know the exact words and actions required to get another parahuman to react in exactly the way he wanted and had Bonesaw under his influence from a very young age where she wouldn't know any better, specifically an age where people love to get ahold of children at because it is exceptionally easy for even non-Masters to turn them into monsters with ease.

Emma on the other hand needed a few pretty words and a warped philosophy from someone who barely understands basic human interaction at all to outright turn on someone who was closer to her than her own family, not that that even matters here since she found a way to do worse to them, and then vague promises from an inhuman entity to decide that infesting and killing all life on Earth Bet was the best way to not be weak anymore.

No, Emma and Bonesaw are not even remotely in the same situation or conditions.

Gremthaxel's trying to ingratiate himself to us atm, so the Crystal's potentially safe, but all the same, I don't think we should touch it for now.

Click to shrink...

No, the crystal is NOT safe. Absolutely NOTHING he gives us or tells us does not have a secondary purpose entirely towards his own ends.

Get it through your head, he is a con man of the highest level. If something does not have an immediate benefit to him that is only to get us to trust him a little more so he can get something else from us later, with the ultimate goal of him being free of the prison we are supposed to be the warden of.

Destroy the spell, since it is very high level and he has already demonstrated the ability to hide magical effects from our senses so who knows what else it does if it even does what it says, and secure the gem so we can work on disposing of it as soon as we take care of a rather important obligation we have towards those who actually need and deserve our help.

 

[Silver W. King]

[X] Go rest the addiction healing wards they are running low
[X] Talk to somebody about Emma
-[X] Dad and Hollow Man

If Emma wants redemption, she's gonna have to go through it a old fucking fashion way, of actually working for it. No reset button for the bitch.

 

[edale]

Bonesaw was under the influence of someone who had a Master power that let him know the exact words and actions required to get another parahuman to react in exactly the way he wanted and had Bonesaw under his influence from a very young age where she wouldn't know any better, specifically an age where people love to get ahold of children at because it is exceptionally easy for even non-Masters to turn them into monsters with ease.
Emma on the other hand needed a few pretty words and a warped philosophy from someone who barely understands basic human interaction at all to outright turn on someone who was closer to her than her own family, not that that even matters here since she found a way to do worse to them, and then vague promises from an inhuman entity to decide that infesting and killing all life on Earth Bet was the best way to not be weak anymore.

Click to shrink...

Did....did you just say Emma (canon Emma) was worse then Bonesaw!?

You obviously have some issues you need to work out.

Also, Jack does NOT have a Master power, he is just very charismatic; and his shard gave him insights into other cape's minds.

And Stalker may not have intended it, but she pretty much brainwashed Emma.

And as soon as the contract with the Queen Bee was established, Emma was essentially Mastered by it. Emma can't be blamed for this as hundreds/thousands of people have similarly made contracts without such negative repercussions; Our apprentice, Gandalf, is one such example. Do you want to kill/maim Aisha for accepting a contract with a supernatural being after singing the Song of Awakening?

with the ultimate goal of him being free of the prison we are supposed to be the warden of.

Click to shrink...

I don't know if you're up on current events, but he's not quite a prisoner atm...

 

[Cutesquid]

Also, Jack does NOT have a Master power, he is just very charismatic; and his shard gave him insights into other cape's minds.

And Stalker may not have intended it, but she pretty much brainwashed Emma.

Click to shrink...

Not commenting on the rest, but that's kind of an odd stance to take. Shadow Stalker "brainwashed" Emma, but Jack was merely "charismatic" in recruiting Bonesaw? Doesn't make any sense.

 

[Snake/Eater]

Why not create a new person? Her soul has been shattered, we could transplant a apiece of a Level 14 spirit to mend her, kinda like a fucked up skin graft.

 

[edale]

Not commenting on the rest, but that's kind of an odd stance to take. Shadow Stalker "brainwashed" Emma, but Jack was merely "charismatic" in recruiting Bonesaw? Doesn't make any sense.

Click to shrink...

Oh no, Jack definitely brainwashed Bonesaw, to a much further extent than Stalker brainwashed Emma (but Stalker still brainwashed Emma in the end). I was saying that Jack did not have a Master power, it was all achieved through charisma and the insights of other parahumans gained by his shard.

 

[doomlord9]

Did....did you just say Emma (canon Emma) was worse then Bonesaw!?

You obviously have some issues you need to work out.

Click to shrink...

That was a comment on their respective situations, not their actions.

As much of a monster as Bonesaw was, the only thing she never did was betray people who actually trusted her, and before you say it no Jack did not trust her because he was constantly keeping her under his thumb.

Canon Emma would have been a consideration for S9 membership, she would have just needed to be given powers and a little help on her follow through because her victim is still alive even after all her effort. She would be given bonus points for slowly tearing down Taylor's will to live by twisting everything that was once good in her life into a weapon but 2 years is an awfully long time to focus on one target.

This Emma would be accepted right off, if only so because Jack would want to give her some focus and narrow the scope of her activities a little. Everything else he would approve of heartily.

Beyond that I also didn't particularly like the Bonesaw redemption in canon either, except it was less of a 'oh those hundreds of people you killed aren't important, what's important is that I want my friend back so I'm just going to ignore the mass murder and plan omnicide' and more that Bonesaw only redeemed herself by being useful and playing a critical role in saving the lives of absolutely every human that exists anywhere, something on the order of a few quadrillion once the dimensions are added up.

Something that I really don't care to give the chance for if it involves letting someone with a history of betraying everyone who trusts her get even remotely close to us.

Also, Jack does NOT have a Master power, he is just very charismatic; and his shard gave him insights into other cape's minds.

And Stalker may not have intended it, but she pretty much brainwashed Emma.

Click to shrink...

Charismatic does NOT allow one man to just talk someone into into outright changing their entire life value in the span of a few hours. Knowing exactly what to say on the other hand because he can essentially read their minds and knows exactly what buttons to push on the other hand is pretty much a textbook Master power, even though it is actually a Thinker power how he uses it, like say to keep a group of 8 other psychopaths mostly at peace with each other and following his orders even though they should be rampaging crazies by nature, turns it into a Master power.

And yes she was brainwashed....with the most absolutely pathetic effort put into it that I have seen. Stalker didn't do shit, Emma essentially brainwashed herself. Sophia didn't actually care about Taylor, just that Emma was showing her 'strength' by doing stuff to her. Everything they did to Taylor was entirely Emma's idea and the most Sophia had to do with it was to give a vague grunt of approval and something that might generously be called a smile. That's all it took to make Emma

And as soon as the contract with the Queen Bee was established, Emma was essentially Mastered by it. Emma can't be blamed for this as hundreds/thousands of people have similarly made contracts without such negative repercussions; Our apprentice, Gandalf, is one such example. Do you want to kill/maim Aisha for accepting a contract with a supernatural being after singing the Song of Awakening?

Click to shrink...

No but I will judge her by her choices and actions after doing so. Aisha decided to disguise herself as a wizard and wander around amusing herself in harmless ways. Emma decided to infest her parents, then use them to infest the city, then use the city to infest the world, killing hundreds in the process and planning to kill millions or billions more.

No, there was no master effect from the Queen as see by Emma outright betraying her(it's funny how easily that seems to come to her and we for some reason want her close to us again?) with as little as having us say 'Do it or I'll kill you' which she then does so without hesitation, making her both a coward and a traitor.

The queen simply needed to say 'implant my children into your family and everyone on the planet and you'll be strong! Oh and just ignore the blank mindless gaze, random mutation, and general non-human actions done by those implanted. That's normal and everything is perfectly fine' in order for Emma to decide that yes this thing is perfectly trustworthy and I should shove this strange thing into them and make them smile at me even though there eyes are now empty, yay they love me!

Emma is in no uncertain terms a traitor, an idiot, and a coward, and added on in this quest, an outright mass murderer with aspirations of omnicide.

No, I strangely have no forgiveness or even a drop of compassion for someone like that. There is a rather pertinent phrase for this situation. 'Mercy for the guilty is treason to the innocent' because making Emma recover, and then keeping her around like we for some reason want to do, just puts her into a position to destroy everything we have managed to build even with our incredibly short attention span. Which given that she repeatedly betrays everyone who trusts her is a far more likely than is remotely acceptable.

I don't know if you're up on current events, but he's not quite a prisoner atm...

Click to shrink...

If it was that easy to escape then the prison would be empty. He might have some minor effect on the world around us but most likely that was just a projected image.

If he is completely free, even more of a reason to destroy anything and everything he gives us so he can't free the rest of them. And no, we should not say 'well I know he plans to betray me but first he has to gain my trust so I'll just take the first couple things that are safe and then stop before I get to deep' because that is EXACTLY how conmen operate. Accepting anything only puts you deeper into their debt as there is always a hidden cost but don't worry just do this one more small thing and that minor issue will go away. Oh that one had a hidden cost too? Don't worry, just a few more small things and everything will be smoothed over.

The only way to win against a con-man is to just not play the game. Playing any games with him means he wins because getting us to start is his entire goal, he's going to win no matter how hard he has to bend the rules or outright cheat.

The safe thing for now is to destroy the powerful and dubious spell he 'accidentally lost' to us and secure the powerful magical item that probably doesn't do what we think it does because he has already demonstrated that he can disguise magical effects as something else.

 

[Smyter]

[X] Being a detective

 

[edale]

As much of a monster as Bonesaw was, the only thing she never did was betray people who actually trusted her,

Click to shrink...

Except her parents.

Knowing exactly what to say on the other hand because he can essentially read their minds and knows exactly what buttons to push on the other hand is pretty much a textbook Master power,

Click to shrink...

Glad to know Tattletale's a Master. Point-in-fact, Jack's shard gave him less info to work on than Tattletale, the rest is charisma.

to keep a group of 8 other psychopaths mostly at peace with each other and following his orders even though they should be rampaging crazies by nature, turns it into a Master power.

Click to shrink...

Canon calls it charisma, not a Master power; but I'm sure you know better.

Everything they did to Taylor was entirely Emma's idea and the most Sophia had to do with it was to give a vague grunt of approval and something that might generously be called a smile.

Click to shrink...

"Who the fuck is that?" Sophia murmured.
Emma didn't reply. She watched as Taylor approached the gate at the front of the house, walked up the path to the stairs where she and Sophia stood.
"Emma!"
"Who the fuck are you?" Sophia asked.
Taylor's smile faltered. A brief look of confusion flickered across her face. "We're friends. Emma and I have been friends for a long time."
Sophia smirked. "Really."

Click to shrink...

You were saying?

Emma decided to infest her parents,

Click to shrink...

Emma wasn't exactly in control when she did that, go back and re-read that interlude.

 

[edale]

And now that I've actually read the chapter:

[X] Being a detective
[X] Being a information broker

Yes, my vote is both.

With Tattletale's powers she can easily work both jobs at the same time.

You have something that needs detective work? She'll do it. You need information? She probably already has it, and if not, she can get it.

It's only a rough idea here, but with Tattletale's ability, I could easily write up a full and proper business plan... Not that I actually will.


And I have a horrid feeling Emma's going to accidentally activate the crystal while we're not there.

 

[Nai]

[X] Being a detective

 

[Silver W. King]

[X] Being a scholar

Because I've never seen this done before and it should be an interesting new direction to see Lisa in.

 

[Fishyface]

[X] Being a detective

Like the story Tattletale Investigates on SB. Which was awesome.
And dead.

 

[doomlord9]

[X] Become a scholar.
-[X] or become a scholarly mage.

Scientist!Lisa would be awesome, Mage!Scientist!Lisa would be terrifyingly awesome.

Except her parents.

Click to shrink...

So desperately trying to keep her family alive and being too young to understand that it is a completely futile task, while also having Jack's full attention to get her to do exactly what he wants to entertain him, and only giving up when there was absolutely nothing left for her to Tinker with counts as betrayal.

Glad to know Tattletale's a Master.

Click to shrink...

Yes, she can act like it if she wanted. She has all the details needed to break someone entirely and then from that should could easily build them into a loyal minion in record time.

She just doesn't choose to use it like that but only her own distaste of that tactic prevents her from doing so, not a limitation of her power.

Powers are classified by their effect and how they are used, not by what they actually are.

Skitter's Master power is leveraged into a Shaker rating(area control), a Thinker rating(Localized Omniscience giving her pseudo pre-cognition), a low level Tinker rating(for various spidersilk stuff), and a Stranger rating(she can act anywhere within her range with no forwarning or simply spy without giving a hint that she is doing so), all coming from bug control simply because of how she chooses to use it.

Point-in-fact, Jack's shard gave him less info to work on than Tattletale, the rest is charisma.

Click to shrink...

No, Tattletale gets more detailed information but at no point does the stuff her shard gives her let he do things like keep a group of psychopaths peaceful enough with each other when they by all rights should hate each other and try their hardest to kill half of the group on general principle.

Canon calls it charisma, not a Master power; but I'm sure you know better.

Click to shrink...

Canon says that long before anyone knows about his Thinker power and how he uses it, leading to false conclusions.

Canon is told in first person and thus is vulnerable towards an unreliable narrator using false or incomplete information.

You were saying?

Click to shrink...

And exactly where did Sophia suggest anything? She simply displayed dislike of Taylor in their first meeting. Emma then immediately turned on Taylor to appease Sophia and seeing as Sophia liked it, she kept going further and further against Taylor of her own initiative to keep Sophia pleased with her.

Sophia didn't really care who it was and she's not an angel either, but the majority of the torments the Trio did to Taylor were Emma's idea, especially the ones that went beyond petty bullying. Neither Sophia or Madison really cared enough to bother when she wasn't right there in front of them.

Emma wasn't exactly in control when she did that, go back and re-read that interlude.

Click to shrink...

I'll concede that due to author clarification but it changes little about my opinion of her.

And I have a horrid feeling Emma's going to accidentally activate the crystal while we're not there.

Click to shrink...

And that is the primary reason I wanted the damned thing secured and on our person, even if we didn't plan to destroy it.